640 replies to this topic

[Trei]

raspberry jam, on 11 January 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Spoiler

I suggest the following, in order:

• Fix the bug (already done, I think).
  
• Remove the illicit profits. Of course, only from the people who actually took part. If someone created 3000 ectos and sold 2500 of them, remove the remaining 500 ectos together with, let's say, all his money, and any exotic/ascended/legendary items that he acquired after the fact. Possibly other rare materials as well, if he invested in those.
  
• Yeah, speaking of that, there should be a check of some kind... If removal of materials and items don't represent enough value, that player should be investigated to see what he did with the cash. If he for example bought some rare item to hide the money, that item should be deleted. If on the other hand he dumped all the cash in the Mystic Forge while not getting anything for it, then ANet should just lol because he already got his due.
  
• Hire some at least half-competent QA personnel (because it's all too obvious that they don't check anything more than "does this compile").

That would be taking responsibility as a company that develops/sells a game and that manages the game service. That would be a far better (for us players) situation than what is actually happening:

• Release a bug ridden piece of shit (talking about code quality here) game
  
• Vainly try to repair that by releasing a bug ridden piece of shit (again code quality) patch
  
• Have the gall to ban people for poking their fingers through the holes of the leprous bad excuse for a game that is the result of all this
  
• Let idiot fanboys defend these decisions on forums

I do understand why they are doing it though, because it's far more profitable.

I'm not sure for a fact if they did or did not already do what you listed they should do, are you?

The only thing we know is that the most serious offenders were banned.

You would not be entirely wrong in demanding anet take up their part of the responsibility.
But let's not shift responsibility.

If anet didn't do all those things that you listed, maybe they should have, I can't disagree with that.
But it does not change the fact that those banned did commit a bannable act to a bannable extent, thus should be and were duly punished.

An unintended situation does not turn into an exploit until people start exploiting it, usually excessively.
The bug is not an exploit, the actions and methods of people blatantly abusing it to their advantage is the exploit.
Anet may be responsible for the bug, but they sure as heck are not responsible for people choosing to abuse it extensively.

Edited by Trei, 12 January 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[phabby]

BlairPhoenix, on 12 January 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Common sense says, if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it. It's funny to me how many of you seem to eschew common sense here.

However Anet has asked specifically  that if you find something your not sure on  ask us so we can check on it. It was asked on a few sites and in game, however they never till 3 weeks after the fact say anything at all

[BlairPhoenix]

phabby, on 12 January 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

However Anet has asked specifically  that if you find something your not sure on  ask us so we can check on it. It was asked on a few sites and in game, however they never till 3 weeks after the fact say anything at all

Arenanet has been noted to have shitty PR for a while now, before the game even came out. Common sense would also dictate that no response from ANet doesn't technically mean anything, and then we go back to my initial statement, if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't do it.

[Trei]

phabby, on 12 January 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

However Anet has asked specifically  that if you find something your not sure on  ask us so we can check on it. It was asked on a few sites and in game, however they never till 3 weeks after the fact say anything at all

And thus Anet not saying anything yet at the time automatically meant it was okay to exploit the heck out of a possible bug?

[Hector]

Total Biscuit went on a rant lately about how gamers defend crap practices by developers now and how that not holding developers accountable for their actions and putting all the onus on consumers and thus taking no responsibility for when they make these crappy choices or mistakes themselves is becoming terrible for the industry.

People are making excuses for the companies that treat them like shit and blaming the gamers.

This is Anets game but you BUY a service. If that service is broken that is not the players fault. Exploiting the broken parts of the game will get you banned. But those parts should have never made it into the game IN THE FIRST PLACE. I know that we do not live in a perfect world and mistakes happen but in the real world there are also consequences for those mistakes. Anet has had none of those. What they get is customers coming to their defense when they make mistakes and tell people, like in this thread where it was questionable if it really was an exploit and even when asked NO ONE AT ANET REPLIED!!!1!, to suck it up. Well guess what, Anet needs to suck it up too and fix their damn game in a timely fashion. You paid for it, you buy gems from them, the least they can do is provide that service when it is needed and not wait until the damage has been done and then ban everyone involved 3 weeks later. That is bullshit, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Jesus, have some self respect and demand better.

[BlairPhoenix]

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Total Biscuit went on a rant lately about how gamers defend crap practices by developers now and how that not holding developers accountable for their actions and putting all the onus on consumers and thus taking no responsibility for when they make these crappy choices or mistakes themselves is becoming terrible for the industry.

People are making excuses for the companies that treat them like shit and blaming the gamers.

This is Anets game but you BUY a service. If that service is broken that is not the players fault. Exploiting the broken parts of the game will get you banned. But those parts should have never made it into the game IN THE FIRST PLACE. I know that we do not live in a perfect world and mistakes happen but in the real world there are also consequences for those mistakes. Anet has had none of those. What they get is customers coming to their defense when they make mistakes and tell people, like in this thread where it was questionable if it really was an exploit and even when asked NO ONE AT ANET REPLIED!!!1!, to suck it up. Well guess what, Anet needs to suck it up too and fix their damn game in a timely fashion. You paid for it, you buy gems from them, the least they can do is provide that service when it is needed and not wait until the damage has been done and then ban everyone involved 3 weeks later. That is bullshit, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Jesus, have some self respect and demand better.

Again. Common sense. If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Why the need to even ask ANet???

Yes, ANet made a mistake. What do I expect from that? I expect them to fix the mistake. They did. Should ANet get on the ball faster with this kind of stuff? Yes they damn should. Does that in turn mean that the people who got banned don't deserve what they got? I don't think so. I like how many of you try to make it sound like these people are paying for ANet's mistakes. They aren't. They're paying for their own goddamn mistakes of which they really should damn know better. Don't give me this BS that people asked and ANet didn't reply. No response is not the same as an ok. If something seems shady, you should be able to come to the correct conclusion and not take part in it. If you can't even do that much, you deserve what you get.

[Arquenya]

If those players would be penalized I'd say give those players a fine equal to the amount of money they made from using the bug and 80% of their income is automatically deducted from loot selling, dungeon rewards and so on until it's fully repaid.

Banning for things you didn't test properly is kind of silly imo.
Test servers like EVE has, anyone?

(At least i hope that if they ban people for using the HoTW3/2 "exploit" I get my money back )

Edited by Arquenya, 12 January 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[Hector]

BlairPhoenix, on 12 January 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

Again. Common sense. If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Why the need to even ask ANet???

Yes, ANet made a mistake. What do I expect from that? I expect them to fix the mistake. They did. Should ANet get on the ball faster with this kind of stuff? Yes they damn should. Does that in turn mean that the people who got banned don't deserve what they got? I don't think so. I like how many of you try to make it sound like these people are paying for ANet's mistakes. They aren't. They're paying for their own goddamn mistakes of which they really should damn know better. Don't give me this BS that people asked and ANet didn't reply. No response is not the same as an ok. If something seems shady, you should be able to come to the correct conclusion and not take part in it. If you can't even do that much, you deserve what you get.

My point is that Anet loses nothing when they * up and everyone cheers them on when they ban people. They fixed this 3 weeks later man. How can any consumer seriously defend Anet when they fix something they know is wrong 3 weeks later?

We all know that obvious exploits demand at least some sort of ban but the worst exploits (HotW and the other dungeon exploits that have been mentioned) are about 100 times worse than this stupid little snowflake "exploit" have ha NO consequences. None, nada. So what the hell is Anet and the people defending them saying here? Are those exploits "to big to fail" so to speak.

This whole thing smacks of intellectual dishonesty all around. From the exploiters themselves, to Anet all the way to the Anet white knights telling everyone to stuff it and blindly trust a company that has shown they are not on top of their game when it comes to fixing things.

Edited by Hector, 12 January 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[BlairPhoenix]

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

My point is that Anet loses nothing when they * up and everyone cheers them on when they ban people. They fixed this 3 weeks later man. How can any consumer seriously defend Anet when they fix something they know is wrong 3 weeks later?

We all know that obvious exploits demand at least some sort of ban but the worst exploits (HotW and the other dungeon exploits that have been mentioned) are about 100 times worse than this stupid little snowflake "exploit" have ha NO consequences. None, nada. So what the hell is Anet and the people defending them saying here? Are those exploits "to big to fail" so to speak.

This whole thing smacks of intellectual dishonesty all around. From the exploiters themselves, to Anet all the way to the Anet white knights telling everyone to stuff it and blindly trust a company that has shown they are not on top of their game when it comes to fixing things.

Loses nothing? What do you consider this thread then? They lose respect from their playerbase, and they worsen their reputation as a company. Could cause people to leave their game, and convince others not to buy/play. And not sure if you actually really payed attention to my post but I'm not defending them for taking too long to fix this issue. If that is all this thread were about, I'd 100% agree with it. Anet has a lot of issues honestly, and they could do with a little more transparency and communication with their playerbase.

What I am arguing about is the people who think that these bannings were undeserved because ANet wasn't clear on the issue. If anything there should be a thread on here complaining that said other exploiters AREN'T getting banned, rather than complaining here that these people ARE banned. Fighting the wrong fight much?

Edited by BlairPhoenix, 12 January 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[Illein]

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

My point is that Anet loses nothing when they * up and everyone cheers them on when they ban people. They fixed this 3 weeks later man. How can any consumer seriously defend Anet when they fix something they know is wrong 3 weeks later?

We all know that obvious exploits demand at least some sort of ban but the worst exploits (HotW and the other dungeon exploits that have been mentioned) are about 100 times worse than this stupid little snowflake "exploit" have ha NO consequences. None, nada. So what the hell is Anet and the people defending them saying here? Are those exploits "to big to fail" so to speak.

This whole thing smacks of intellectual dishonesty all around. From the exploiters themselves, to Anet all the way to the Anet white knights telling everyone to stuff it and blindly trust a company that has shown they are not on top of their game when it comes to fixing things.

Out of stupid curiosity: Care to explain why you consider the HotW exploit is worse than printing unlimited amounts of gold?

Edited by Illein, 12 January 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[Millimidget]

Illein, on 12 January 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Out of stupid curiosity: Care to explain how the HotW exploit is worse than printing unlimited amounts of gold?

HotW exploit was totally undermining the way the game was meant to be played; crafting junk and salvaging it is a totally normal part of the game.

But just admit it, it's not the exploiting that bothers you, it's this vague threat of economic impact, which if anything positively impacted 99% of the playerbase.

The bulk of my in-game wealth is in ectos I bought at 30-37s apiece; I'm in a position for the maximum amount of being screwed by this busted recipe. I really couldn't care. I'm well aware that there are bigger issues than falling ecto prices, rising mithril prices, or yet another jerk with 1000+ gold getting in on the precursor cartel.

I would cheer Anet if they were busting up the cartel; well, more like I'd cheer Anet if they removed the potential for the cartel. It's Anet's game after all, and the potential for the cartel is an implicit admission of support for the cartel. I find it hard to blame the players when everything is 100% in Anet's hands. For that same reason, I'll magnify the significance of their actions 100 fold, to the point where Gaile's statements about this are more bothersome than any actions players took during this, because Anet is 100% in control here.

So now that I've taken the time to politely respond to you, could you explain to me just how terrible falling ecto prices, rising mithril prices, or yet another jerk with 1000+ gold getting in on the precursor cartel would be to the in-game economy?

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

We all know that obvious exploits demand at least some sort of ban but the worst exploits (HotW and the other dungeon exploits that have been mentioned) are about 100 times worse than this stupid little snowflake "exploit" have ha NO consequences. None, nada. So what the hell is Anet and the people defending them saying here? Are those exploits "to big to fail" so to speak.

I'd give up; these guys don't care about exploiting (they probably even exploit themselves). They're only interested in watching people suffer.

Not that forums' need for a resident psychologist is anything new.

Edited by Millimidget, 12 January 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[Hector]

Illein, on 12 January 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Out of stupid curiosity: Care to explain why you consider the HotW exploit is worse than printing unlimited amounts of gold?

I don't thnk I would care to converse with you about anything tbh.

[Hector]

BlairPhoenix, on 12 January 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

What I am arguing about is the people who think that these bannings were undeserved because ANet wasn't clear on the issue. If anything there should be a thread on here complaining that said other exploiters AREN'T getting banned, rather than complaining here that these people ARE banned. Fighting the wrong fight much?

Actually, I agree with this and if you read what I said I basically said exploiters deserve what they get. I am not trying to defend them, I just do not get why people are defending Anet tooth and nail and what the justification for doing that is when Anet really have shown they either are being deliberately selective with who they are banning for exploiting the game for some reason only known to them or that some exploits are a-ok. They will fix them...eventually, but there will be no consequences to the players abusing certain well known game bugs. Honestly, they are pretty much in a lose lose situation with this whole thing but they put their own damn selves into this position by cherry picking which exploits to enforce bannings on.

[Illein]

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

I don't thnk I would care to converse with you about anything tbh.

Suit yourself.

[BlairPhoenix]

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

Actually, I agree with this and if you read what I said I basically said exploiters deserve what they get. I am not trying to defend them, I just do not get why people are defending Anet tooth and nail and what the justification for doing that is when Anet really have shown they either are being deliberately selective with who they are banning for exploiting the game for some reason only known to them or that some exploits are a-ok. They will fix them...eventually, but there will be no consequences to the players abusing certain well known game bugs. Honestly, they are pretty much in a lose lose situation with this whole thing but they put their own damn selves into this position by cherry picking which exploits to enforce bannings on.

Ah I see. Personally don't agree with ANet's selective-ness either, either ban them all, or none at all, and I definitely lean towards the former rather than the latter.

[AsadPANDA]

The permanent bans were too harsh imho, i have two friends who were banned and honestly i am losing my will to play too because they are not coming back.

Some punishment? sure! but not allowing them to continue with their accounts and achievements is just pure evil and i died a little inside.

We now play Planetside 2.. life goes on.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Strawberry Nubcake, on 10 January 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

I'm neither rich nor poor.  I have almost everything I want besides the long list of legendaries that I intentionally saved for a later date.  How much I have is none of your business.

There are several ways to make money and it's stupid that people are trying to defend exploits because they don't feel like they are making enough.  What is enough?  1000g?  2000g?  Shall I keep going?  It's like some think they need a legendary and a huge pile of gold rotting in the bank or else people will think they have a small penis or something.  (Nobody cares.)  I like leaving a nice looking corpse as much as anyone else, but leaving a nice looking corpse is not a necessity!  Necessities are easy to acquire in this game.  Prestige items weren't supposed to be.  I seriously doubt that the people bitching about Anet trying to keep people poor and push them into buying gems are struggling to acquire average exotic weapons and armor.  They want the super rare exotics and don't want to work their ass off to get them.  Boohoo.

I will admit that the price of some precursors are a bit high even for people that aren't sitting around waiting for a handout, but Anet has already said they have plans to give us a new way to acquire them.  Maybe they will do something right for a change and prices will go down a bit.  I know it's a bit hard to be optimistic considering their track record.  

Edit: @ person above me: I agree and *she!  

Apologizes if my question appeared invasive. Was a retorical question, a numerical answer wasn't the purpose. On the present economy where buy a stack of lode is on par of buy a top precursor, call yourself "someone making money not understanding why people complain" means you're in the range of 800/1500g. If not, you're poor like any of us. An average stack of money is between 1000 and 2000 to play this game not complaining the goldsink everywhere. Something everyone of us should accomplish, playing a long amount of time ingame proficently. Instead no, is something reserved just to TP manipulators. And the company knows everything needed for a beautiful weapon (or a legendary) is day by day going to be a hard/impossible dream to reach. This shows the incompetency of the company to handle a sane economy, fooling us they care of the TP and how the market behave. Yes, maybe, until their interest is safe, not surely the community one. Like ecto dupes, the ban of this thread. Too many ectos around? People going rich? Nah, kill em all permabanning, let's try to restore the normal poor state, or those guys will not use their credit card for gemstore anymore.

Hector, on 12 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Total Biscuit went on a rant lately about how gamers defend crap practices by developers now and how that not holding developers accountable for their actions and putting all the onus on consumers and thus taking no responsibility for when they make these crappy choices or mistakes themselves is becoming terrible for the industry.

People are making excuses for the companies that treat them like shit and blaming the gamers.

This is Anets game but you BUY a service. If that service is broken that is not the players fault. Exploiting the broken parts of the game will get you banned. But those parts should have never made it into the game IN THE FIRST PLACE. I know that we do not live in a perfect world and mistakes happen but in the real world there are also consequences for those mistakes. Anet has had none of those. What they get is customers coming to their defense when they make mistakes and tell people, like in this thread where it was questionable if it really was an exploit and even when asked NO ONE AT ANET REPLIED!!!1!, to suck it up. Well guess what, Anet needs to suck it up too and fix their damn game in a timely fashion. You paid for it, you buy gems from them, the least they can do is provide that service when it is needed and not wait until the damage has been done and then ban everyone involved 3 weeks later. That is bullshit, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

Jesus, have some self respect and demand better.

Time to rise, what do you think? Nah, hey sheeps cmon, the dog is barking, time to sleep

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 13 January 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[AsadPANDA]

Well action had to be taken against exploits but this particualr exploit stinks as hell, Anet knew about this and introduced a fix much later, even in the official forums people asked about if it was ok and they said nothing.

Permanent bans should be for something really serious, not exploits lol, if they don´t have the tech implemented to roll back accounts because they made a mistake with one of their updates, then why would a customer.. a player.. this can be a young kid or a teen or an older guy because they just don´t care and this is really scaring me and right now i lost my will to play since two of my friends have been banned because of this too.

I dunno what to say more its too depressing, games should be fun stuff not this!

[BlairPhoenix]

AsadPANDA, on 13 January 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Well action had to be taken against exploits but this particualr exploit stinks as hell, Anet knew about this and introduced a fix much later, even in the official forums people asked about if it was ok and they said nothing.

Permanent bans should be for something really serious, not exploits lol, if they don´t have the tech implemented to roll back accounts because they made a mistake with one of their updates, then why would a customer.. a player.. this can be a young kid or a teen or an older guy because they just don´t care and this is really scaring me and right now i lost my will to play since two of my friends have been banned because of this too.

I dunno what to say more its too depressing, games should be fun stuff not this!

Said it once, I'll say it again, common sense, if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Did all of these people need ANet to hold their hand and tell them what to do? Really? Exploiters are people who make a decision to do what is essentially the wrong thing to do. They had the choice. They chose greed. Think exploiters got what they deserve. Doesn't matter if ANet made the mistake, the point is, these people chose to capitalize on that mistake, and that is not the right decision. Think we're better off without people like that in the game. As I said earlier though, wish ANet would hold that stance on the other exploiters who got away scott free.

[Lucas Ashrock]

How simple is the life for you huh? I will not repeat the funny "how you explain we can get loads ectos just using t5 mats, crafting not using one single ecto, and get loads ectos being rich, it's available from launch, noone was banned, it works as expected , it's salvage getting ectos using 0 ectos" question, would be too easy to win. I will shoot you an other example of doubts: dungeons are designed with regular mobs, silver mobs, champions, legendary champions (chest bosses). The design is you go after the entrance, you fight them. If you kill em all, you will arrive to the legendary boss and worthy to arrive till there, you kill him, and get the chest and the precious content inside. Now, do a skipall run with ashkit until you reach the boss phase and take quickly his loot and the chest, go out and change path, is it exploit? Because i ask this question (not just me) from launch. Noone answered, i still believe is a bannable exploit.
Devs never replied. But still sounds me a bit "strange" and not proper about how the designer tought this game was meant to be played. Now tell me, why the entire playerbase is not permabanned? I can count with 1 hand the number of players who never and i mean never used even a little skip or trick in a dungeon, forced or randomly maybe just saving his back running away. Where is now your theory of "if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it"?
Shoot the anwer, and don't derail with "how you compare a dungeon run to crafting". Be smart, i'm sure you got the point, now answer  or i will just change example

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 13 January 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[BlairPhoenix]

Lucas Ashrock, on 13 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

How simple is the life for you huh? I will not repeat the funny "how you explain we can get loads ectos just using t5 mats, crafting not using one single ecto, and get loads ectos being rich, it's available from launch, noone was banned, it works as expected , it's salvage getting ectos using 0 ectos" question, would be too easy to win. I will shoot you an other example of doubts: dungeons are designed with regular mobs, silver mobs, champions, legendary champions (chest bosses). The design is you go after the entrance, you fight them. If you kill em all, you will arrive to the legendary boss and worthy to arrive till there, you kill him, and get the chest and the precious content inside. Now, do a skipall run with ashkit until you reach the boss phase and take quickly his loot and the chest, go out and change path, is it exploit? Because i ask this question (not just me) from launch. Noone answered, i still believe is a bannable exploit.
Devs never replied. But still sounds me a bit "strange" and not proper about how the designer tought this game was meant to be played. Now tell me, why the entire playerbase is not permabanned? I can count with 1 hand the number of players who never and i mean never used even a little skip or trick in a dungeon, forced or randomly maybe just saving his back running away. Where is now your theory of "if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it"?
Shoot the anwer, and don't derail with "how you compare a dungeon run to crafting". Be smart, i'm sure you got the point, now answer  or i will just change example

As to your first question that you repeated, even though you said you weren't going to(Yeah common sense much? Learn to phrase better. I hate people who do that. 'I don't want to repeat what she said but....' If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. Adding the modifier in the front does nothing), yes those people should get banned as well. Simple. And yes to the other example as well. Should be banned.

Running away on the other hand,is perfectly acceptable and is obviously planned for by having mobs reset in dungeons. The difference is in the severity of the skip or trick you're taking advantage of. Common sense should be able to dictate which is a clever use of game mechanics vs what is an actual exploit, because there are certainly some dungeon exploits in which people do deserve to get banned for. Skipping groups of trash mobs may not have been intended, but in the end, doing so is not really 'exploiting the system' as it isn't actually GIVING anything to you besides saving time. There is no material reward for doing so. So yeah, theory still stands, if you have to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it. And not really a theory. It's common sense. And if you're going to claim EVERYONE is taking advantage of such bans, I'd be asking what sort of drugs you're taking, cause I certainly haven't, and no one else I know has. Personal experiences can differ greatly between people. Would ANet have to ban a whole lot of people? Yeah, but it's their own damn fault really.

[AsadPANDA]

My opinion stands and common sense here means nothing, people should be able to play the game they are presented with, if the dev team thinks something is wrong then they change it and explain people why they did it, they don´t perma ban them from the game.

I am tired of just hearing its the players fault when it clearly is not, Anet has the tools to make players play how they think they should and punishment for not doing so is just disgusting for a gaming company.

No one should ever be denied the progression and achievements they acomplished over such a petty error in the game that was introduced by Anet, if the gains were so substancial then they should strip those accounts from those gains.. there problem solved and Anet should apologize for introducing the error in the first place.

I cannot imagine myself being denied from playing my main with all the progress i have, its just sick to be honest and this is why i have decided to leave the game and get a refund because i do not want to invest my time on developers that are nothing more than mediocre, its just common sense really yeah.

[BlairPhoenix]

AsadPANDA, on 13 January 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

My opinion stands and common sense here means nothing, people should be able to play the game they are presented with, if the dev team thinks something is wrong then they change it and explain people why they did it, they don´t perma ban them from the game.

I am tired of just hearing its the players fault when it clearly is not, Anet has the tools to make players play how they think they should and punishment for not doing so is just disgusting for a gaming company.

No one should ever be denied the progression and achievements they acomplished over such a petty error in the game that was introduced by Anet, if the gains were so substancial then they should strip those accounts from those gains.. there problem solved and Anet should apologize for introducing the error in the first place.

I cannot imagine myself being denied from playing my main with all the progress i have, its just sick to be honest and this is why i have decided to leave the game and get a refund because i do not want to invest my time on developers that are nothing more than mediocre, its just common sense really yeah.

Common sense here means nothing? Well no point in talking with you then, because that statement flies completely against common sense.

Really though, you make it sound like ANet purposefully put this exploit in to entrap players. "introduced"????

http://dictionary.re...e/introduce?s=t

Please tell me which definition of introduce you are using, because I can't see a single one that fits the way you were using the word.
It was an error on their part. People make mistakes, fact of life. And you could claim I'm nitpicking, but really, the way you word a statement is extremely important in getting your point across, and misusing a word in a way that changes the entire context of the situation you're explaining kind of matters.

It clearly IS the player's fault, at least partially, and saying otherwise is ridiculous. The situation doesn't matter, the choice the person makes according to that situation is. Players CHOSE to capitalize on ANet's mistake. They didn't stumble on it, they made a decision, and they chose the shadier option. They decided to go with more riskier option for the higher reward, and they got burned. Or are you trying to tell me that choices shouldn't have consequences?

And that's completely your prerogative, but cut the crap in trying to make these people sound completely innocent, because it's utter BS. People like to smear blame on one party or the other, but pretty much in every single case, both parties are at least somewhat at fault.

[AsadPANDA]

Yes the recipe was introduced by Anet.

Introduce - "verb (used with object),  in·tro·duced, in·tro·duc·ing.Tto present (a person, product, etc.) to a particular group of individuals or to the general public for or as if for the first time by a formal act, announcement, series of recommendations or events, etc.: to introduce a debutante to society."

And im not saying that these people shouldn´t be punished, if damage was done then some action was necessary, but perma bans aren´t the way and i cannot agree to this, its not just the players fault, the dev team is the one to blame FIRST since they made it possible ingame for the players, Anet is not innocent here but the weaker link (the players) get the death sentence.

Remember one thing my friend, when you point your finger at someone three fingers point at you.

Edited by AsadPANDA, 14 January 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Hector]

AsadPANDA, on 14 January 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Yes the recipe was introduced by Anet.

Introduce - "verb (used with object),  in·tro·duced, in·tro·duc·ing.Tto present (a person, product, etc.) to a particular group of individuals or to the general public for or as if for the first time by a formal act, announcement, series of recommendations or events, etc.: to introduce a debutante to society."

And im not saying that these people shouldn´t be punished, if damage was done then some action was necessary, but perma bans aren´t the way and i cannot agree to this, its not just the players fault, the dev team is the one to blame FIRST since they made it possible ingame for the players, Anet is not innocent here but the weaker link (the players) get the death sentence.

Remember one thing my friend, when you point your finger at someone three fingers point at you.

This is what I have been trying to say. The only people facing any sort of downfall here are the players and Anet keep releasing crap, bug ridden updates. Weeeeeeee. THAT IS OUR FAULT!!!!

[Jentari]

Anything that you can do in game has been put there by Anet.  Now with that in mind then by a lot of peoples logic in this thread and threads on other forums is then anything that people can do in game is then fair.  So if I find a bug that gives me 1000 gold every 5 minutes and I keep repeating this bug then I shouldn't be punished because Anet allowed this bug to exist.  So Anet, go ahead and listen to the whiners, reverse the bans, let everyone do whatever they want in the game.  All you people then can have fun cheating your hearts out.

[BlairPhoenix]

AsadPANDA, on 14 January 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Yes the recipe was introduced by Anet.

Introduce - "verb (used with object),  in·tro·duced, in·tro·duc·ing.Tto present (a person, product, etc.) to a particular group of individuals or to the general public for or as if for the first time by a formal act, announcement, series of recommendations or events, etc.: to introduce a debutante to society."

And im not saying that these people shouldn´t be punished, if damage was done then some action was necessary, but perma bans aren´t the way and i cannot agree to this, its not just the players fault, the dev team is the one to blame FIRST since they made it possible ingame for the players, Anet is not innocent here but the weaker link (the players) get the death sentence.

Remember one thing my friend, when you point your finger at someone three fingers point at you.

Nice try, except you didn't say the recipe. "No one should ever be denied the progression and achievements they acomplished over such a petty error in the game that was introduced by Anet" You said the error was introduced. Please tell me where Anet presented the error. And please don't try to equate the two, because the recipe did have an intended use, and that was what was introduced by ANet. Not the error.

And really? You're going to argue me the order of which blame should be placed?  Who gets blamed when isn't important, it's who deserves MORE blame, and that would be the players. If a man leaves his house door open, and people steal from the house, yeah the man was stupid for leaving his house door open, but the people stealing are the ones who are committing the malicious act. Anet left the door open, and the exploiters took advantage. Doesn't matter if they yell asking if anyone is there and if it's ok to take the stuff first before taking it, what they're doing is inherently not good. You could argue whether or not the severity of the punishment is too extreme, but arguing that these players are somehow less at fault is ridiculous.

So does that mean the three fingers are somehow more inherently right, because they have the numbers? Honestly, what is the point of that statement?

Quote

This is what I have been trying to say. The only people facing any sort of downfall here are the players and Anet keep releasing crap, bug ridden updates. Weeeeeeee. THAT IS OUR FAULT!!!!

No, but it would be our fault if we take advantages of said bug ridden updates.

[AsadPANDA]

Haha you are being silly, call it error, glitch, bad recipe its the same thing.

So by your statement players STOLE from Anet? did i read that right? your logic here is completely flawed, i have a better example for you then:

I go to the GW2 gem store and i see there that they are selling 1000 gems for 1€, i say to myself "wow cool gonna get some" i click buy and i get 100000 of them, but then it was a mistake by Anet and those 1000 gems should have been at 10€, so someone made a mistake, whos fault is it? mine? did i exploited? or saw a good deal? should i get banned too? please tell me.

Edited by AsadPANDA, 14 January 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[BlairPhoenix]

AsadPANDA, on 14 January 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Haha you are being silly, call it error, glitch, bad recipe its the same thing.

So by your statement players STOLE from Anet? did i read that right? your logic here is completely flawed, i have a better example for you then:

I go to the GW2 gem store and i see there that they are selling 1000 gems for 1€, i say to myself "wow cool gonna get some" i click buy and i get 100000 of them, but then it was a mistake by Anet and those 1000 gems should have been at 10€, so someone made a mistake, whos fault is it? mine? did i exploited? or saw a good deal? should i get banned too? please tell me.

No, it is not the same thing. You didn't say bad recipe. You just said recipe. The recipe was glitched. ANet did not present the glitch. Therefor when you say they "error in the game that was introduced'  you are manipulating language to make things appear in your favor. They did not introduce the error according to the definition you picked out. I don't understand what you're not understanding about your wording and how it changes the context of what your saying.

My statement was a means of comparison. ANet did something stupid, and exploiters took advantage of their stupidity. Again, not sure why you can't understand that someone who takes advantage of someone else is more at fault that someone who makes a mistake. And no, your example isn't better, in your example, you are clearly using the store the way it was meant to be used. The people who got banned were clearly using the recipe in a way it was NOT meant to be used. The difference in your example is the intent behind what you're doing. And honestly if you can't take a second to question the legitimacy of that gem purchase, you honestly deserve what you get. Again, common sense.

Edited by BlairPhoenix, 14 January 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Trei]

AsadPANDA, on 14 January 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Haha you are being silly, call it error, glitch, bad recipe its the same thing.

So by your statement players STOLE from Anet? did i read that right? your logic here is completely flawed, i have a better example for you then:

I go to the GW2 gem store and i see there that they are selling 1000 gems for 1€, i say to myself "wow cool gonna get some" i click buy and i get 100000 of them, but then it was a mistake by Anet and those 1000 gems should have been at 10€, so someone made a mistake, whos fault is it? mine? did i exploited? or saw a good deal? should i get banned too? please tell me.

The analogy was about an offence committed, not about stealing.

Does "1000 gems for 1€" look right to you?

If you are a brand new player who has never bought a single gem before, your mistake could be understood; you are not familiar how much gems usually had been going for.

If you already have past experiences in buying gems from Anet with cash, then there is no excuse for not recognizing something is very wrong with the price, especially if there isn't any announced promotions stating such a discount.

Such issues dealing with direct cash transactions are usually handled differently to ingame mechanics exploits, being a great deal more sensitive, but technically you would be just as low as those who exploit bugs if you proceed to buy those gems in huge amounts knowing how ridiculous the price is.


I had past experiences in retail where some particular items of mine were priced too low. It was not simply a difference of a few dollars that a customer would rightly have assumed to be correctly priced, those I would gladly honor because it was my store's mistake.

But when it gets into the range of a few zeros missing for a kind of product that is extremely unlikely to be sold for double digits...? Such a jerk actually did come into my store, went straight to the item that was priced a few hundred dollars off what it should have been, and demanded I honor said price, despite how hard my staff tried to explain the situation.

Well, then in that case I decided not to sell it to him, nor ever do business with him ever again.
Please leave my store.

Intent is key here.
What is yours?

Edited by Trei, 14 January 2013 - 03:34 AM.