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Mesmer vs Necro


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#1 Br0th3r6r1m

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:25 AM

Hi all,

I am leveling a Mesmer (love it) and a Necro at the same time.  I have an 80lvl thief that I played first.  Thief taught me the importance of dodging and paying attention to the battlefield.  I've taken these lessons and applied them to both my Mesmer and my Necro.

From a very very macro level, Mesmers and Necros appear to do the same thing.(No?)  I round up mobs, cast choas storm, pull out clones/phantasms/ apply numerous conditions. Shatter...rinse repeat.  Mesmers control/change the battlefield, inflicting conditions etc etc.

My Necro is more or less the same.  Round up...enfeeble, snare, wells, DoT's galore....everything dies.  I realize Mesmers have shatter...Necros have minions(refuse to use), but what are the gaping differences between these classes?  I feel that they overlap more then any of the other classes.  I love them both, Mesmer being my fav...but they seem so similar as I am leveling them.  I realize I have completely wiped both with a generalizing brush stroke, but for those that have both of them...what makes you choose one over the other?  I will say Mesmer is much more engaging/rewarding, as my Necro seems quite a bit "tankier".

I love both of these classes, but they seem to overlap soooo much.  Maybe it's just how I am running them.

#2 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:27 PM

I started a necro first and am currently leveling a mesmer and I play my necro primarily as a conditionmancer, picking one foe and loading conditions on them (10-15 stacks of bleed, cripple, vulnerability, blind, chilled) then using epidemic to spread them followed by watching them all hobble towards me and die at my feet. My mesmer I play more like a burst dmg caster, creating 2-3 illusions shattering swapping to sword/sword and dealing some straight dmg with 2 before spawning more illusions and shattering again by that point almost anything will be dead. So I guess what sets them apart for me is just the fact that I play them differently I can't pick one as my favorite because my necro is 80 and mes is still lvling

#3 Strife025

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

Difference is mesmer has much more utility then necro with reflections, stealth, time warp, boon "copying", and superior boon stripping. They also have the best AoE pull in the game with focus 4 to group up mobs, and they are the only class that can pull without getting agro which makes it easy to run by certain mobs without agroing, or grouping up mobs to burst down that normally couldn't be grouped because of stability once they agro (Arah).

The other main downside to necro is they don't have a cleave weapon, which is very valuable in many different settings for bursting down groups faster in addition to shattering. Most of the necro dps is either single target, or requires some build up with conditions which is inferior in many PvE settings.

In organized play, Mesmers just bring so much more to the group because they offer countless things that for example, a necro can't.

They are actually much different classes, you may just think they're similar because of the way you're playing them currently.

Edited by Strife025, 21 February 2013 - 12:37 AM.


#4 Chaos Archangel

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

I think what you're doing is comparing a Staff Necro to Staff Mes.

The staff playstyle in general (Ele, Guardian, Necro, Mesmer) revolves around tagging clusters of mobs and the classes that use them can feel similar, but Mesmer's other weaponry, utilities, and clone mechanics are far different from the Necro playstyle. A condition Mes can feel like a Necro, but a Melee Mes or Mantra Mes or even Inspiration Mes (Boons rather than conditions) will feel worlds apart.

Mobility and utility and being a mage that can carry a sword and a gun are what set Mesmer apart

#5 Shadow209

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

Necro and Mesmer are really different. I also have both at lvl 80.

My necro is a condition mancer, while my mesmer has a power based build.

On the necro you basically have two options to play effectively. Either as condition mance with scepter/dagger to inflict conditions or in a power based build with a mainhand dagger and whatever offhand you prefer.

Condition Mesmers on the other hand are not that good imho. I'm not saying, you can't have an efficient condition build, but the power based builds are so good, that you don't need to bother about conditions imho. Also condition mesmers relay on confusion to a certain extend, which is good in PvP and WvW, but useless in PvE.

Mesners bring a lot more utilities for the group, like projectile reflection, stealth, time warp. Necro doesn't have all that. Necro is better in terms of condition removal, though.
On my mesmer conditions can be a problem, since I can't counter them effectively on my own, but then again the guardians and warriors in your party can easily take care of that (also other classes, like ele). Necro has a really good rezz Skill, Signet of Undeath, which can be very useful, when used in the right situation (but don't waste it, when you can easily rezz someone without it)

Like mentioned by Strife025, necros don't have cleave attacks, on Axe or Dagger. Also Scepter attacks a single target only, but I don't see a huge problem in that. When you're running a power build (Dagger) this can be a problem. Staff has AoE, but isn't as strong as Dagger, so your only AoE comes from wells. On a condition build you need some time to stack up conditions, which isn't a huge problem, since that's pretty quick in most cases. Also Staff has great AoE, problem is, it's a bit in between condition and power, but since it offers great cc and has 1200 range, it is used as secondary weapon in most builds. When you run a condition build with high precision plus fury from Deathshroud and a sigill of earth on your Staff, you can still do a lot of damage. If you run Scepter/Dagger, you also have 2 AoE attacks on that weapon set and Epidemic is an awesome AoE as well, so if you combat a lot of enemies necro wins, because of the awesome AoE. Yes, Mesmer has cleave on the Sword, but only cleave and no "real" AoE and when you have to go ranged and swap to your Greatsword you're attacks don't cleave anymore. Mesmer is great for Single-target fights, though, like boss fights and in some cases cleave is very valuable indeed. I'd say the more enemies there are, the better a condition necro gets.

My builds:
Necro: http://gw2skills.net...Y/8kisHP6BxGnMA
pretty much this:
http://www.guildwars...e-wvw-fractals/

Mesmer: http://gw2skills.net...hWAJFqWqVSBvdhA
I might change this to 20/20/0/20/10, not sure.
Strife025's guide helped me a lot here:
http://www.guildwars...dungeon-groups/

Note that in both cases the utility slots are just an example, which can be used, but you will have to change them a lot, depending on the encounter. Also on my Mesmer I focus like 50% of the time. In this situations I use Warden's Feedback (Inspiration VIII)

The Traits Inspiration II on my mesmer and Curses VII on my necro are situational. In some cases you will use Glamour/Corruption skills and these traits will be useful, in other situations you won't use this skills and may want to select another trait.

#6 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

First of yeah they are similar if you run conditions builds on them !
If you run "zerker" Mesmer you gonna see burst that no Necro will ever see, honestly one of my favorite toons for WvW is just this !
Necros on other hand are better condition dealers if set properly, also you can make pretty ridiculously tough "tank" necro (see youtube for full build) !

Bottom line would be go for it level both classes you want regret this (this comming from a man that has 2 Mesmers and Necro lvl 80) !

#7 Khrushchev

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostKhrushchev, on 09 January 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

I'm speaking from my experience with my main, a lv 80 Necro, and my alt, a lv 80 Mesmer.

Necro is amazing for melting faces with AoE, be it epidemic transferring 25 stacks of bleeding, poison, burning, and anything else that tickles your fancy, or multiple wells and Life Transfer. Necros always have options when it comes to damaging something. However, where Necros fall short are in burst situations, Necros have a lack of burst healing or damage, and next to no access to stun breakers or vigor, often leaving Death Shroud to act as a psuedo-stun break/burst damage sponge.

On the flip side, Mesmers have access to a lot of stun breakers (Blink/Decoy are amazing) and nearly constant vigor with a few points in dueling. This allows them to spec quite heavily into damage and still be relatively sturdy. Currently I am running a pow/crit build, have 3200 power, 45% Crit Chance, and 95% crit damage, and I'm quite enjoying it, especially since with Blink, I can get out of many a sticky situation and Distortion (With the roll-clones) + the perma-vigor from my traits make me quite survivable.

Both are good, and while both can "overlap" occasionally, they fulfill different roles to be sure.


#8 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:25 PM

My first character was a necro and while most of your post made sense to me this section stuck out

View PostStrife025, on 21 February 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:


The other main downside to necro is they don't have a cleave weapon, which is very valuable in many different settings for bursting down groups faster in addition to shattering. Most of the necro dps is either single target, or requires some build up with conditions which is inferior in many PvE settings.
.

a well set up condition necro can stack 10-15 stacks of bleeding as well as cripple, chilled and poison in around 4 seconds then spread that to a whole group with epidemic. basically 5 sec on skill use and then you watch the mobs fall over on their way to you which in my experience is far from inferior in pve

#9 Strife025

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostRaagar Deathclaw, on 26 February 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

My first character was a necro and while most of your post made sense to me this section stuck out



a well set up condition necro can stack 10-15 stacks of bleeding as well as cripple, chilled and poison in around 4 seconds then spread that to a whole group with epidemic. basically 5 sec on skill use and then you watch the mobs fall over on their way to you which in my experience is far from inferior in pve

There are very few trash mobs that live past 10 seconds. By the time you can get your bleeds up to make epidemic worthwhile, a mesmer with cleave + shatters has already done ~30k damage to 3 mobs and 12k to another 2. In organized groups there are very rare circumstances where conditions will out dps direct damage for both a single target or group of mobs simply because gear and traits aren't balanced to compare to power/prec/crit damage and % base damage traits, which Anet has stated they are aware of and working on.

Edited by Strife025, 26 February 2013 - 07:35 PM.


#10 Ehragus

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

Go for mesmer. People in general are against necros. My main used to be a necro until people only did speedruns.
So if you wanna have a "wanted" class mesmer is the choice.




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