41 replies to this topic

[CepaCepa]

Bloodtau, on 07 January 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Don't expect to do damage. Don't expect to be able to support very well.

coglin, on 07 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

My auto attack on riffle does 2k damage, and I can keep aoe regeneration up all the time and sometimes maintain multiple aoe heal tics, keep weakness up 100%,..........those two fact alone should help you understand how wrong he really is.

I'm going to say something in the middle: if you're using grenades, you'll be doing "very good" aoe damage on par with staff elementalists, and you'd be supporting your group with vulnerability + blind + chill on the mob. If you're using flamethrower with proper build/gear, you'd do "good" aoe damage, although it's a bit awkward. I do not think however that we should say "engineer is at the top of everything" when a new perspective player is asking for suggestions, it may give off the wrong idea. The engineer has its niche, for example we can do top aoe damage + condition damage through grenades. But there are other professions who will excel over us in other situations even for damage roles alone, for example mesmers/thief/elementalist/ranger single target builds. Although we have some options (static discharge, rifle #3 + #5), we're also lacking burst damage compared to mesmer/thief/warrior (hence, why those 3 professions were at one time feared in PvP). But if it's damage you seek, you can get it from Engi. As of now though you're somewhat limited to your playstyle choices if you want maximum damage output.

Support, well, I've gotten into that argument before so I'll just say it this way: you won't notice much difference in easier contents, and by that I mean general PvE, explorable dungeons, and early fractals. All professions can be viable supports, some slightly better some slightly worse but all in all quite close. Half the professions can get perma regen/protection, the other half can get perma fury/might. Half the profession can keep perma blind/vulnerability on the mobs while the other half can keep perma weakness/cripple. Everyone can interupt/stun, some better some worse, some make it up in other ways. In higher level fractals and a few harder explorable dungeons, you start to realize why people always yell "need guardian" but not "need an engineer/elementalist/necromancer". There IS a difference, and that difference is caused by profession mechanism, so at one point we just need to suck it up and say "I realize what can I do and what can't I do, but I like playing the game this way so I'll try to maximize myself WITHIN this set up".

[Bloodtau]

coglin, on 07 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

although what you should expect is to put this poster on ignore. He never actually contributes to discussion, and thrives on trolling the engineer forums and bashing the class. My auto attack on riffle does 2k damage, and I can keep aoe regeneration up all the time and sometimes maintain multiple aoe heal tics, keep weakness up 100%,..........those two fact alone should help you understand how wrong he really is.

It;s called having my own opinion. I could say how wrong you are in thinking the engineer is actually decent. Any class can do damage with berserker gear. 2k AA? that's low compared to other classes. aoe regen? barely any effect at all. etc etc.
As i've been saying, the engineer can do stuff but other classes do those roles BETTER.

Open your eyes, take off your blinkers and realise the class needs work. Those of us who would like the class to actually be better want to be heard. Those of you living in cloud land is what is keeping the engineer from living up to it's potential. Good thing people like you fall into the minority.

Edited by Bloodtau, 10 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[coglin]

Bloodtau, on 10 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

It;s called having my own opinion. I could say how wrong you are in thinking the engineer is actually decent. Any class can do damage with berserker gear. 2k AA? that's low compared to other classes. aoe regen? barely any effect at all. etc etc.
As i've been saying, the engineer can do stuff but other classes do those roles BETTER.

Open your eyes, take off your blinkers and realise the class needs work. Those of us who would like the class to actually be better want to be heard. Those of you living in cloud land is what is keeping the engineer from living up to it's potential. Good thing people like you fall into the minority.

Well a portion of my issue with many of your post, is that you often flat out lie, then later go back and claim it was opinion, when it was stated as a fact in a very "matter of fact" manner. Considering our bomb and grenade damage give us AoE damage that can match any class, I find your opinion of

Bloodtau, on 10 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Don't expect to do damage.

inaccurate, and mis-informing, but that is just my opinion.

Based on the elixir gun alone, I feel your comment of

Bloodtau, on 10 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Don't expect to be able to support very well.

inaccurate, and mis-informing, but that is just my opinion.

Presumptuous and foolish comments such as

Bloodtau, on 10 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Those of us who would like the class to actually be better want to be heard. Those of you living in cloud land is what is keeping the engineer from living up to it's potential. Good thing people like you fall into the minority.

are not opinion, they are you talking out of your ass by attempting to put words in my, and others mouths. No one is claiming they do not want the class to be better. Just because we are not troll pessimist, does not mean we live on a cloud, nor does it make anyone the minority. I absolutely agree the profession needs work, but in my opinion, the same can be said for any class in this game.

More to the point of your comment about other professions damage, so what? Regardless of what other classes can do, your claiming that 2000-2400 auto attack damage at 1200 range is bad? It isn't in my opinion. Its a fact that we have more combo finishers then any other class, and we can produce every combo field except a dark field. Regardless of what other classes can do, in my opinion, that in itself is pretty solid support.

I have had my last profession to 80 now for almost a month, and with having all classes to 80, it is my opinion, that you mis-inform and over exaggerate, for the sake of your own agenda which you made clear by pointing out your comments are made to spur changes in the class, and clearly not to assist in informing and educating the OP, but that is just my opinion.

[Thaddeuz]

Engineer

- Best versability. WIth Elementalist you got more skills, but as an engineer you can choose which kit you wanna play and each of them come with 5 skills. The Elementalist, you choose your weapons and it come with a block of 20 skills (more chance that some of them are not useful to you).
- Grenade kit have one of the highest AOE DPS of the game. Not a high burst AOE, but a good constant one. And with the longest range (1500) with the Ranger's Longbow.
- Jack of all trades, master of nones is pretty much true, but that's not bad. Except for the AOE constant DPS, there is no portions of the game where the Engineer excel. On the other hand he can do all of them. If you don't focus of some of them you will be mediocre on all, but if you focus of 2 of them you will mostly be good at it and still be able to do a little bit of everything. This make the engineer a really good character as by modifying you build a little you can help in almost every situation.
- Engineer are one of the hardest profession to be good with. Ground Targeting a moving target while trying not to be hit need several hours of practice. Navigating through all you skill, using all of them at the proper time and situation is also hard. Since this is the strength of the Engineer you probably be underpowered if you don't do it correctly.
- Engineer are fun to play, especially to level up since you can try so many different way to play your character. Flamethrower in shot range, grenade at very long range, drop bomb at you feet, the Elixir gun, etc.

In conclusion, my first character was an engineer and i never regretted it. Its a really fun profession to play. If you are a casual player you will like all the different way of playing possible, making the level up more fun and since you don't search to be as effective as it possible, you don't need to go into the hard part of the engineer game play. If you are a more hardcore gamer, you will like the difficulty level that the engineer give you to be as effective as possible.

After all that remember that all of the profession is fun to play and good at something. But these is a chance that you don't like the profession you gonna choose, but it can happen with any profession and the only way to know it is to play it.

[SpelignErrir]

Hell no. Play a warrior to learn the mechanics, roll an Engineer after you get bored with the Warrior's mechanics.

Engi as a first class = bad idea.

[Bloodtau]

coglin, on 10 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I have had my last profession to 80 now for almost a month, and with having all classes to 80, it is my opinion, that you mis-inform and over exaggerate, for the sake of your own agenda which you made clear by pointing out your comments are made to spur changes in the class, and clearly not to assist in informing and educating the OP, but that is just my opinion.

This bit alone shows that you do not know the class very well. Spending a lot of time on one profession means you get to know the ins and outs of the class. Simply delving on the surface of a class, then rolling onto another and another etc means you will never truly get to know that class and only base your assumptions on what you see on the surface.
eg having 1 lv 80 with several hundred hours spent on it means you will have more knowledge of that class than having several lv 80's with less time spend on them.

[coglin]

So you have played no other professions, yet you exclaim to the community that you know best, how they compare to other classes, while claiming those who leveled all classes will not understand how they compare?

Yours is truelly a brilliant logic good sir.

[GammaWolf]

It seems to me the main thing the engineer has going for it in higher end pve is the ability to quickly and safely get 25 vulnerability and bleed stacks in an AOE with grenade kit 1,2. Giving the party such a large and reliable damage boost is helpful.

The grenade nerf however is a big hit since now a crit damage build is not so great anymore and condition damage for bleeds seems to be necessary. Its hard to tell if putting up all the bleed and vuln stacks is as useful as a warrior using 100b and auto attacking.

Being at range allows the engineer to be in a good position to avoid damage and rez allies, but its not like before where he could spam 1 on grenade and easily be putting out huge damage on top of the vulnerability stacks.

Unfortunately I don't really see other builds where an engineer is performing really well in a particular area. Banner warriors, eles and guardians are able to provide useful support that synergizes better with their damage skills.

For me the problem with engineers is that pistol and rifle are just not that good in higher end group pve. You need to rely on grenade kit, which with the nerf kind of forces us to go cond damage.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Engineers use only a few different weapons and don't have weapon swapping like the other professions. They make up for this with kits and such, but you'll feel extremely limited as a first timer anyways. They also require quite a bit of patience and skill to play properly. Overall I would not choose it as my first profession. I can suggest something like Ranger, Warrior, Guardian or if you want some difficulty at first: Mesmer, as they're fun and versatile, but kinda squishy in the beginning.

Bloodtau, on 11 January 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

This bit alone shows that you do not know the class very well. Spending a lot of time on one profession means you get to know the ins and outs of the class. Simply delving on the surface of a class, then rolling onto another and another etc means you will never truly get to know that class and only base your assumptions on what you see on the surface.
eg having 1 lv 80 with several hundred hours spent on it means you will have more knowledge of that class than having several lv 80's with less time spend on them.

Or you get plenty of time to get to know the classes even without having to spend 100 hours on each of them. This is not a matter of studies of some 2000 year old civilization or the depths of mathematics, but a game with a limited design. There's a cap for how far you can go. You can get all the skills, all the traits, compare, and from there on all you can do is try doing things just a tad different than last time. I believe you are terribly mistaken thinking someone cannot know the depth of a profession just because they haven't played solely on that.

Edited by Sword Hammer Axe, 11 January 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[draxynnic]

You certainly can't claim to have made an accurate comparison of the abilities of two or more professions unless you've played those professions - if you haven't played each at an advanced level, it's easy to develop an exaggerated idea of their strengths while not fully understanding their weaknesses, especially if you're not the best player to begin with.

[tfckmk988]

to the OP now I'm only lvl 37 but I find the engineer very fun to play using riffles and turrets solo and will switch to grendades with a group just make sure as I think others have already said to avoid the temptation of standing still when using your skills like you had to in WoW it doesn't interupt you in GW2

[Warmaster Bacon]

I wouldn't suggest playing engineer first. I know 3 people who said they hated the combat, and all 3 of them tried engi first. go with something basic like a warrior.