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How my Ban for Snowflake is different and unjustified!


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#1 ReMarkable91

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

I am posting this topic here because I needed a place to type this text since I can't post on the official forums. Letting my friend copy paste it here and thought well the more people that see this the better.

First of all let me explain why I post it on a forum and not in a support ticket to get an answer? Well there support is really busy because 200 people are spamming them now with unban me this that. And it is like they scan for the words Snowflake Exploit and banned got all those 3? Well let's response with a copy paste mail all those 200 get with your not getting unbanned!

I hope this way some1 from arena net will actually read it and reply on my case.

For those who don't know there where 2 recipes that could produce globs first of all the 1 I didn't knew about and 190 of the 200 banned people exploited.

It is this recipe : http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/6759 it is even in the old recipe with only 1 upgrade component needed. Wich was the catch cause u had an 80 % chance to get 1 glob back and then a chance to get another 0-3 Globs to cover the part of the 8 Mithril Ores that allways got lost in the process. The avarage was 0.9 for them so for 800 Mithril Ores (5,12 G atm) they gained a avarage of 90 Globs.(25,2 G atm) well I could agree with arena net that those people could have seen that this was not intended and could be an exploit. Well the market stabalized fairly quickly and would have ment that the price of Mithril Ore would have jumped over 2 S each and globs to like 22,5. Well that can't be talked good with it probaly was intended.

Now my case I used a more expensive and way less proffitable recipe. http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/6761 also in the old state with 1 upgrade component.
Also had 80 % chance to get 1/3 of the item back but also an 100 % guarantee that 5-8 of the Orichalcum ores used (99 % of the time 7) would be gone and combine that with 20 % chance to lose the upgrade with glob in it and another 4 Orichalcum ores. But there where too many variables and I had no idea what the avarage glob I would get out of Exotics. Well I now estimate it not that much higher the rare(0.9) it was probaly like 1.2.

I decided to craft 10 upgrade components with those I could create around 50 earings (I just calculated 10*0,8 all the time and turfed how many where left after a serie.

This is the result:
10 8 6 5 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 after that was at 0, something so 48 should be the result.

Oké this seems scetchy and maybe should have been seen as a exploit but I saw it as an intended way and that it was just like a recipe such as http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/1603 Wich cost let's say 20 S to make and 0,9 chance to get an glob. It makes proffit on avarage cause make 100 of those for 20 G and get 90 Globs worth 25 G(with the price of posting it on tp and time needed also barely proffitable). Telling you this to proof that making Globs out of other materials is not illigal and has been in game since launch.

I don't know the exact numbers anymore but I know I crafted 10 new Upgrade component 3 times (not in a row had to wait for globs to sell and ores to come in took me like all day).
With the first serie of 10(so 48 earings) I mostly used my own globs Ores and Snowflakes.

So I offcourse made a proffit only bought ores for like 8 G and gained 58(48*1.2 like I said don't know exact numbers) globs worth 14,5 G (25 S that day) After sale 11 G. so 3 G proffit but some of the resources used where in my bank allready.

The 2nd time I had a bit more luck and I calculated I made 2 G proffit after sale. Just counted all the resourced bought (48 * 7 Orichalcum ores + 10 Snowflakes + 10 Globs + 10*4* Orichalcum if it was an avarage turn)
The third time I had bad luck and came down to 3 G loss!!

So I decided it was not worth my time and stopped. But the main thing is who off the people reading this would have seen a new recipe that can give either 5 G loss or profit depending on ur luck as an exploit and would have reported it.

Arenanet must have seen it as wow he crafted the earing 150 times well we drew the line at 100 he must have made at least 50 G proffit over something we think is an exploit he must be banned! But the case is I was just experementing with a new recipe and even made a 1 G loss on avarage.
And trust me if I had like an avarage of 2.2 Glob per salvage and made like 50 G proffit I would had either not stopped at 150 or reported it as an exploit.

Another thing that made me think it was not an exploit but intended is the next story. Arenanet said in an interview they wanted to make the legendary and ascanded backpacks easyer to get for players. Making globs cheaper made sense.
And if you loot at the market since Karka/Fractals update this is what happend to the 2 main components in my "exploit".

Demand on glob went up.(more legendary hunters and ascanded backpiece)
Supply on Orichalcum went up.(Rich Orichalcum ore and some other Orichalcum to be mined daily in new map)
If this recipe was indeed intended it would have ment:
Supply on glob went up
Demand on Orichalcum ore went up.
That means ballance!

I am 100 % sure that 99 % of the people who only discovered my recipe and didn't knew about Mithril would have seen this as intended and not as an exploit!

;tldr;

There are 2 recipes 1 with mithril that 190 of 200 people banned people got banned for and made an avarage proffit of 20 G per 100 Salvages. I did not use this recipe and people using it should have seen it as exploit. Especialy if you look what it does for the market (making mithril 2 S each and t5 Snowfalkes 30 * more expensive as t6)

And my recipe with Orichalcum that gave me personaly a loss of 1 G in 100 Salvages ( 2 G proffit first 50 3 G loss 2nd 50) and with looking what it does to the market (barely affect it) only upping demand on Orichalcum and adding supply on Glob after Karka/Fractal did it the other way around. And could have not been spotted as an exploit there making my ban false!

#2 Dosearius

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

There is absolutely nothing we can do about it here.  And Anet is not going to act on your account based on a thread started here.  Support is your ONLY option.

#3 Omilla

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

Everyone who got banned for this exploit will file in here over the next few days and try to tell us how they weren't trying to exploit and they only wanted to fix the economy.  Or end world hunger.  I have read several of these posts and many seem to have some fuzzy logic about how Anet wanted backpieces to be easier to get so they thought that this recipe was added to do that.  Maybe someday when a too good to be true thing presents itself to someone, they will think for 2 seconds before they dive headfirst into it and end up getting banned.


Haters gonna hate.

'Sploiters gonna sploit.

Anet gonna ban.

#4 XPhiler

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

You could argue either way to be honest. Thing is why did you repeat it 150 times? could either be I assume because the first few runs where very profitable or because you heard people say it was very profitable and just assumed you were being unlucky rather then they were talking about a different recipe.

In any case there is something that works against you. People were not banned for profiting, there is nothing wrong with profiting, people were banned for exploiting.

Think of it this way, if a theif robs a shop and walks away with $100k, a friend hears about it goes in aother shop and robs it but was unlucky enough that the shop only had $1 isnt the 2nd person still guilty of theft? Like wise here I can understand if arenanet took one look saw you crafted / salvaged an earing 150 times in a couple of days and decided you were trying to exploit even though you didnt do any unrealistic profit.

On the other hand you're right as well because well crafting something 150 times and salvaging it isnt exploting in itself.

If it was me deciding if you exploited or not I would look at your history, if crafting / salvaging is something you did in the past I would err on the side of caution and give you a pass. If this was the first time well lets just say it doesnt look good.

#5 ReMarkable91

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

I did not read any topics I found it out myself. I made a set of those accesory for my Engi and was like hmm it's pretty cheap to make let's try salvaging it to see if it gives me proffit.

Well it didn't gave me that much proffit if any so there is no way I could have seen it as exploiting of any kind. For me it was just about trying a new recipe seing what it does. Maybe I should had just crafted 10 but then it is just pure luck so had to do it over 100 times to lose all variables.

How can I be blamed for trying new contect out? And the post saying I wanna end world hunger and sh1t should read the topic.

This is 100 % about me as an avarage player trying out a new recipe seing what the posabilities are. There is no way I can proof that if i made 100 G proffit in 10 minutes I would had reported it. But this is mainly about arenanet saying if something is too good to be true u should report it. U didn't u get banned while this has nothing to do with my case.

#6 Essence Snow

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:21 PM

I love how most all the arguments try comparing the snowflake jewelry to crafted items using t5 mats. "It's the same!" NO it's not. If it were, then it would require 15 snowflakes and you'd lose them 100% of the time with every salvage (price is irrelevant).

Or..."The market stabilized itself"...yes the market for these few items did, BUT it was not simply contained to these few. It created effects all throughout the market, not to mention the potential effects that the gains allowed.

Also we will hear prices, not average prices, but always end prices. There will a mysterious bypass of using gifts/uglies to obtain snowflakes vs buying directly once prices rose. Ofc this is an attempt to lessen the perceived benefit.

All in all those who tried this a few times didn't get banned. It was the ones that did this A LOT in a relatively short amount of time. That combination of time/number is an indication in itself, that this was exploitative. I have zero sympathy for ppl banned. I however do feel for ppl that had nothing to do with the exploit and had guild leaders etc banned, thus being indirectly effected.

#7 warble

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

Sorry for your bad "luck", but Anet is the only people who can help you. If they chose to help you at all.

#8 XPhiler

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostReMarkable91, on 04 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

I did not read any topics I found it out myself. I made a set of those accesory for my Engi and was like hmm it's pretty cheap to make let's try salvaging it to see if it gives me proffit.

Well it didn't gave me that much proffit if any so there is no way I could have seen it as exploiting of any kind. For me it was just about trying a new recipe seing what it does. Maybe I should had just crafted 10 but then it is just pure luck so had to do it over 100 times to lose all variables.

How can I be blamed for trying new contect out? And the post saying I wanna end world hunger and sh1t should read the topic.

This is 100 % about me as an avarage player trying out a new recipe seing what the posabilities are. There is no way I can proof that if i made 100 G proffit in 10 minutes I would had reported it. But this is mainly about arenanet saying if something is too good to be true u should report it. U didn't u get banned while this has nothing to do with my case.

But then that would imply this is something you do regularly so you should have a precident, I would argue that with support if thats the case.

This one was a little tricky in that the action itself is justified. Thats the way to make ectos craft and salvage after all or well salvage loot. So if you're a player that does that I can completely understand that you found this new recipe, you tried it out, perhaps it was a little more profitable then your usual stuff and there is nothing wrong with that. Its perfectly understandable and should be considered exploiting.

#9 ReMarkable91

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

View PostEssence Snow, on 04 January 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

I love how most all the arguments try comparing the snowflake jewelry to crafted items using t5 mats. "It's the same!" NO it's not. If it were, then it would require 15 snowflakes and you'd lose them 100% of the time with every salvage (price is irrelevant).

Or..."The market stabilized itself"...yes the market for these few items did, BUT it was not simply contained to these few. It created effects all throughout the market, not to mention the potential effects that the gains allowed.

Also we will hear prices, not average prices, but always end prices. There will a mysterious bypass of using gifts/uglies to obtain snowflakes vs buying directly once prices rose. Ofc this is an attempt to lessen the perceived benefit.

All in all those who tried this a few times didn't get banned. It was the ones that did this A LOT in a relatively short amount of time. That combination of time/number is an indication in itself, that this was exploitative. I have zero sympathy for ppl banned. I however do feel for ppl that had nothing to do with the exploit and had guild leaders etc banned, thus being indirectly effected.

Did you even read the topic? And how I did not use the mithril but the orichalcum jewelery?
The prices that came with Mithril changed way to much the snowflake went from 1 S to 30 S and mithril from 40 to 2 S.
While the prices of the Orichalcum maybe went from 2.7 to 2.8 at and the t6 snowflake barely changed and was still around 1 S.
Oké in those 4 days after wintersday prices of ectos went from 30 to 25 but that happend every event because more people playing and stuff.

I say it again it is mostly about how arenanet blames me for not seeing there new item is bugged and not reporting it. While nobody would report a new item that never was or will give me a crazy proffit without crazy amount of luck. If i had that luck there are 200 items in the game that could give me more proffit by intention making this new item nothing different then those 200 so not an posable item that should get reported.

#10 Rumstein

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

Let's be honest... Anet is being ridiculously heavy handed with this.

Crafting an item and salvaging to gamble for a profit is nothing new, it happens on rares all the time! (Yes, I know, different mats, blah blah). Next thing you know, they will ban people for that!

I mean, I realised that if you bought delicate snowflakes, you could make green rings with them and vendor for a profit for a few days... But you cant do it, for fear of a ban!

When the fault is an oversight in the design, rather than taking advantage of a BUG or GLITCH, its not exactly an exploit. React to these oversights/bugs/glitches QUICKLY, and maybe suspend people who abused a bit...

No, I am not saying the people that did this are in the right (Those bastards potentially had a lot of money there!), but hell, everytime you find something that can make you SOME gold now, you have to check whether Anet is gonna ban for it... which is retarded.

#11 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

Wow I thought this topic was more of, How my ban for snowflake is any different then those guys earning thousands of Gold (though an exploit in the market) and they still didn't get banned. That would be a more appropriate topic to discuss. Why did those market manipulators using the market's flaws get so rich gaining 1 Legendary per month and still haven't been cought, while someone who earned 20-50G did.

#12 Arutima

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

Dipping your hand into the cookie jar to take a cookie once is ok. But doing the same thing to take 200 + cookies all at once is not .

#13 ReMarkable91

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

View PostArutima, on 04 January 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Dipping your hand into the cookie jar to take a cookie once is ok. But doing the same thing to take 200 + cookies all at once is not .

If your job is baker and the cookie jar has different kind of cookies that reflect the wishes of cookie lovers u take 100 and see what kind of cookies come out most.
Finding out later the cookie jar was stolen is not my fault

#14 UNTYPABLExNAME

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

#FreeReMarkable91


View PostReMarkable91, on 04 January 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Well there support is really busy...

Let me fix that for you:
Well their nosupport is really busy...

Edited by UNTYPABLExNAME, 04 January 2013 - 05:48 PM.


#15 Strawberry Nubcake

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

View PostReMarkable91, on 04 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

If your job is baker and the cookie jar has different kind of cookies that reflect the wishes of cookie lovers u take 100 and see what kind of cookies come out most.
Finding out later the cookie jar was stolen is not my fault
The baker can't be held responsible for your lack of self control.

#16 Sans

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:31 PM

Have fun in whatever new game you decide to play.

#17 Raytla

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

I`m going to admit by saying that I didn`t read your post because it`s to long of a read.  It`s sad that you got banned, but there isn`t much you can do here.  The best option for you is to contact customer service for aide.

I would also like to add that you should have been more careful and not take any exploit as an advantage to gain anything because in the end it will backfire.   You shouldn`t have taken the chance, you should have just sent a message to A.Net notifying them that you found an exploit instead of abusing it.

I might be wrong about what I am saying becuase I didn`t read your post per say, I just assumed it was similar to the other banning offense in regards to the snowflake issues.

I hope things workout for you in the end if you weren`t aware it was an exploit.  You should try letting A.Net know and maybe apologize.

Edit:  That is what I did once when I got banned in a game I once played and i was banned for 4 months, but I ended up sending an apology e-mail and the next day I was able to get my account back.  Maybe it`ll work...if you were really unaware of what you were doing.

I did send them a few e-mails (un named company that banned me) before they were able to finally respond back to me.

Edited by Catiine, 04 January 2013 - 09:56 PM.


#18 1up

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostDosearius, on 04 January 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing we can do about it here.  And Anet is not going to act on your account based on a thread started here.  Support is your ONLY option.

Have fun with Anet support, been a month and my ticket has still gone unanswered... They're officially worse then LoL supprt!

Quote

121204-000112 Updated 12/03/2012

Edited by 1up, 04 January 2013 - 09:50 PM.


#19 Chalky

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

Hi,

We already have a thread to discuss the recent wave of snowflake related bans here:

http://www.guildwars...this-christmas/

Since several hundred people seem to have been banned, it's not possible for us to have each one of you make a dedicated thread about why your particular ban was a bad call.  Feel free to discuss the bans with the rest of the community and other banned members in the main thread.

I also suggest logging a support ticket with ArenaNet if you believe your case should be reviewed.  Although it is unlikely that the decision will be reversed, this is your best bet.

Thanks, and good luck with your appeal if you do log a ticket with ArenaNet.
Do you need help or just want to chat about moderation?  Drop me a PM.




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