32 replies to this topic

[Turambar]

Pathfinder Online is a hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO where characters explore, develop, find adventure and dominate a wilderness frontier in a land of sword and sorcery.

In a sandbox MMO your characters are able to make a persistent impact on the game world.  Your characters will be the heroes of legend.  Your character’s actions will determine how kingdoms rise and fall.  They’ll drive trade and commerce.  They’ll explore the world and discover the magic, monsters and adventure that await.


Kickstarter: Pathfinder Online: A Fantasy Sandbox MMO

PaizoForumsPathfinderOnline: Forums

Goblin Works Design & Development Blogs: TONS! of Game Info ;

Helpful List of Blogs

Summary of Pathfinder Online Features

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PaizoCon PathfinderOnline Presentation Video (13 minutes)

• Goblin Works & Paizo
  
• A brief History Of MMOs
  
• Sandboxes vs Themeparks
  
• "Crowdforging" (ie google mail beta)
  
• Pathfinder Online: Adventure, Exploration, Development, Dominion

News Coverage:

Massively

PCGamer

===========

If anyone is interested in the Paizo Pathfinder PnP game system, there's some nice deals in the pledges also: Check the project page.

This is a very ambitious independent company (Goblin Works) seeking to make the EVE equivalent of fantasy sandbox mmorpg but with improvements!!

==========

Any questions I can help answer or provide a link for further info.

[Turambar]

Keyword/phrase Descriptor (MMO at a glance):

• Player-Player Contracts - replace quests
  
• 
  
• Player formed factions - all/any eg as per EVE
  
• 
  
• Skill-Training Progression -> 2.5yrs to max level earliest in x1 role only
  
• 
  
• Player created settlements -> Each Hex (256) can be conquered and controlled
  
• 
  
• Player formed Armies -> Real formations
  
• 
  
• Virtual Economy -> full-blown autonomous economy (not simulated)
  
• 
  
• Player Crafting item production and PvE Resource Cycle (maj. item creation by players)
  
• 
  
• Career Skills as well as Combat Skills (bounty-hunter, bandit, diplomat, tavern owner...)
  
• 
  
• Alignment, Reputation, Politics & Open-World PvP (EVE style again)
  
• 
  
• NPC Alliances (changes which mobs are friend/foe
  
• 
  
• Single-server World map - all emergent game story is shared by all players

& more at the blogs: https://goblinworks.com/blog/

Edited by Turambar, 05 January 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[HawkofStorms]

Subscription.

Pass.

[Limbo]

The Grinch + Asuras = whatever those things are in the picture.

sounds cool though.

[Turambar]

HawkofStorms, on 05 January 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Subscription.

Pass.

Good ol' HawkoStorms - It's good to see names in the forums I recognise! How dooooo...?! *Jim Carrey voice*

It's akin to EVE Online's PLEX/ISK payment system: For more info:

Money Changes Everything > When Worlds Collide

Quote

We are planning on allowing one item from the Skymetal Bit store to also be sold in–game for coin: skill training packages. This has two important consequences:

First, players who want to spend money on the game can use Skymetal Bits to buy skill training, and then sell that training, via the in–game market, for coin. In essence, they'll be able to "buy" coin with real money.

Second, players who don't want to spend money on the game will be able to continue training their characters essentially for free, as long as they're generating enough coin in the game to buy that skill training.

This is a win/win for both groups of players, and reduces the scope and effort so–called "gold farmers" will waste trying to compete for your business—which is also good for Goblinworks, as those people are sources of constant problems for MMO companies, including fraud and identify theft.

This system will work very much like PLEX works in EVE Online. PLEX has proved to be extremely successful at reducing the effects of gold farmers, and at making it easier for casual players to enjoy the game without requiring them to put in massive effort to raise in–game funds. We expect to see the same positive outcome in Pathfinder Online.

Limbo, on 05 January 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

The Grinch + Asuras = whatever those things are in the picture.

sounds cool though.

They're the Pathfinder IP Goblins (sorta mascot status, may be based of Wayne Reynolds' art?)

The footage is Tech Demo - it was was for investors and the actual game will be souped up - it's not even alpha footage. But it demos the team's capabilities and of course the art style they are going for based off aforementioned Wayne Reynolds

Wayne Reynolds Google Image

http://www.waynereynolds.com/

Gallery

=

Any Q's fire away!

[HawkofStorms]

Oh, in that case, cool.  Though finding the right balance so you can actually play for free without a ton of grind is always interesting.

Though, much like my hype for Star Citizen, and basically all kickstater projects, I'm going to keep my interest in this low and on the backburner for now.  No sense getting too hyped for a game that is several years away.  But, looks at least interesting.

Edit:  I've always regretted not having a good stable group of nerdy RL friends who could play table top games with me.  This seems to be a good approximation.

Edited by HawkofStorms, 06 January 2013 - 12:49 AM.

[Corsair]

I've always been wary of Kickstarter projects. I'm fully willing to pay into a beta for a game and watch it through to fruition. But paying for something that does not yet exist? That's always a hard sell. Implementation is what matters, and you can have the coolest ideas and still implement them poorly, ie Peter Molyeux(?) and his oft oversold games.

I'll keep an ear to the ground for when they have something more concrete.

[Alaroxr]

Sounds awesome. I read up on this a while ago and it interested me (I play the pathfinder board game).

The skill bar system is kind of like GW2's except you have 3 weapon sets and a couple twists. It's sandbox in how players actualyl create/run the world, and different settlements players create can go to war. I like the fact that body blocking is in the game, so in the mass-scale PvP you can form lines of players. There's also a formation system for that where when players stand in battle formations, they get powerful buffs and stuff.

There's also pathfinder dungeons in-game that are randomly generated. The cool thing is that when someone goes into the dungeon, the door behind them closes so it's just for that group. However, some dungeons are huge and have multiple doors that spawn players in different paths, and to complete the dungeon you need players in multiple paths.

I look forward to seeing this game progress more, especially in-game footage.

Edited by Alaroxr, 06 January 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Turambar]

HawkofStorms, on 06 January 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:

Oh, in that case, cool.  Though finding the right balance so you can actually play for free without a ton of grind is always interesting.

Though, much like my hype for Star Citizen, and basically all kickstater projects, I'm going to keep my interest in this low and on the backburner for now.  No sense getting too hyped for a game that is several years away.  But, looks at least interesting.

Edit:  I've always regretted not having a good stable group of nerdy RL friends who could play table top games with me.  This seems to be a good approximation.

Aye, only back what you really dig and don't dig too deep into your pockets - my ks mantra: Which Pathfinder Online has somewhat compromised. *yoiks*. I joined a local gaming club at my last place of work, nearby and a very friendly place to go on Thurs evenings: When I finish my current job I aim to return there for my next job, partly based around that!

Corsair, on 06 January 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I've always been wary of Kickstarter projects. I'm fully willing to pay into a beta for a game and watch it through to fruition. But paying for something that does not yet exist? That's always a hard sell. Implementation is what matters, and you can have the coolest ideas and still implement them poorly, ie Peter Molyeux(?) and his oft oversold games.

I'll keep an ear to the ground for when they have something more concrete.

I agree about this. It was something of a wrench to back before the festive season, but the early enrollment of a potential early 2014 with lean launch and small community was too good to resist: Especially as I'm not spending on mmorpg now or foreseeably. I start a 2nd job come spring in the evenings so that will redraw the balance.

There's Update #19: Land Rush!!



Also Update #29: It's Unity!

I'm really on tenter-hooks to hear more about over the next few days: (1) Design *tick* (2) Engine *?* (3) Implementation *?* (4) Community *so far - tick*

[Turambar]

Pathfinder Online Environment Experience

You can navigate the tech demo via Unity Web-player plug-in, if interested. Blog updates on Unity middleware at the Goblin Works blog

Quote

Kickstarters, we have a special treat for you today! We have created a UNITY Web App that will let you experience the environment we constructed for the Technology Demo!
A few caveats: The web app has not been optimized and we cannot guarantee the frame rate for everyone's browsers. In our tests here at Goblinworks HQ we've seen it perform across a spectrum of speeds depending on video card, CPU and operating system. (Mac users in particular will likely need a recent high-end Mac Pro or MacBook Pro; it won't work very well on Mac Minis, most iMacs, or older machines.) This does not represent the type of game experience you'll have from Pathfinder Online.
The Environment Experience does not include characters or goblins. It was built so that you could see a sample of how quickly we have been able to migrate the work we did in the Technology Demo into the UNITY framework and begin creating usable content for internal testing. Plus, we think it's pretty cool!
Those of you who have the Thornkeep PDF will recognize many of the rooms in the first level of the Thornkeep dungeon! The Technology Demo dungeon was built around the tabletop map (with suitable changes for the needs of the digital tools). It's pretty cool to see a top-down, grid based dungeon level translated into a 3D online environment!
The Unity Web Player will automatically install in your browser and after the player and the software are downloaded you'll be able to see it in your browser. You will need to close the tab or the browser window to exit the Environmental Experience.

[Turambar]

Announcing Pathfinder Online: Pit Fight!

Quote

From the beginning, Goblinworks has been working to get our fans involved in the process of developing Pathfinder Online as early as possible so we can live up to the Pathfinder tradition of player involvement in the development process.

In the fall of 2013 we'll be releasing a combat testing tool called Pit Fight!

Our players can help us get a much wider range of combat data while getting a preview of combat in Pathfinder Online. Pit Fight will be a stand-alone, single-player experience.  

Pit Fight will put the player through a number of gladiatorial battles, fought in the newly constructed Bonepit Arena in Thornkeep. Players will be able to get a sneak preview of our combat design and help us shape its development through PvE conflict against various NPC opponents. Initially, players will be using a limited number of prebuilt characters beginning with Fighters but expanding over time to involve other classes, combat styles, etc.  Players will be able to try a handful of scenarios we specifically want to test, but over time we’ll add more characters, more customization, and more scenarios. Players will be able to see what aspects of combat they most enjoy and plan their advancement path once Pathfinder Online launches.

We plan to release Pit Fight in Fall  2013.  We are finalizing the platforms we can support but we anticipate the baseline will be a Unity Web App.

Another interesting possibility for PFO. Final furlong for the kickstarter campaign FYI ! Pledge guide jpg

Edited by Turambar, 12 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Turambar]

Final 48Hrs!!

Here's a vid about the Sandbox qualities of Pathfinder Online:

[Arngrim Einheri]

Turambar, on 12 January 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Announcing Pathfinder Online: Pit Fight!



Another interesting possibility for PFO. Final furlong for the kickstarter campaign FYI ! Pledge guide jpg

I don't know if I understand it well. Does that mean that players get more benefits the more they pay?

[Turambar]

Arngrim Einheri, on 13 January 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I don't know if I understand it well. Does that mean that players get more benefits the more they pay?

If you are referring to the pledge guide: For Kickstarter campaigns, you get more rewards (and discounts) for the higher you pledge and different rewards of course. So there is a range of values for different prices. Eg at the Crowdforger Guild level you get x6 a/cs for your guild and the chance to enter your guild's name in the Guild Land Rush!! promotion and votes for being allocated a Hex higher up the ladder.

As for the Pit Fighter Combat tool: They might open it earlier to KS backers and then to more people subsequently (more testing = better).

I hope that addressed your question. Good to see names in this forum I recognise, Arngrim Einheri. I've been much less active here since they revamped the look of the site

Any more Q's fire away!

Last 24Hrs and it's coming down to a knife edge thriller...

[Arngrim Einheri]

Turambar, on 13 January 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

If you are referring to the pledge guide: For Kickstarter campaigns, you get more rewards (and discounts) for the higher you pledge and different rewards of course. So there is a range of values for different prices. Eg at the Crowdforger Guild level you get x6 a/cs for your guild and the chance to enter your guild's name in the Guild Land Rush!! promotion and votes for being allocated a Hex higher up the ladder.

As for the Pit Fighter Combat tool: They might open it earlier to KS backers and then to more people subsequently (more testing = better).

I hope that addressed your question. Good to see names in this forum I recognise, Arngrim Einheri. I've been much less active here since they revamped the look of the site

Any more Q's fire away!

Last 24Hrs and it's coming down to a knife edge thriller...

Oh I see so is all for the kickstarter campaign thx Turambar. Idk why but my interest in this game has gone from very low to very high in a short period of time. Really, the possibility to open a tavern for adventurers calls my atention a lot! ^^

[raspberry jam]

Turambar, on 04 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Summary of Pathfinder Online Features

"1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse."

Yeah I have a question. What is the meaning of having a skill training system at all? What is the meaning of removing grind if you still have to wait to un-nerf your character?

* what would I not give to have a real action/adventure MMO instead of yet another *ing boring shitty 80 levels "RPG" (spreadsheet) MMO.

[Corsair]

raspberry jam, on 14 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

"1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse."

Yeah I have a question. What is the meaning of having a skill training system at all? What is the meaning of removing grind if you still have to wait to un-nerf your character?

* what would I not give to have a real action/adventure MMO instead of yet another *ing boring shitty 80 levels "RPG" (spreadsheet) MMO.

There is something that people find horribly enthralling about horizontal progression. I've never understood it, myself.

[Turambar]

raspberry jam, on 14 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

"1. No Grinding- Pathfinder Online uses a skill training system like that of EVE Online. You train skills by choosing what skill you want to train and allowing the time required to elapse."

Yeah I have a question. What is the meaning of having a skill training system at all? What is the meaning of removing grind if you still have to wait to un-nerf your character?

* what would I not give to have a real action/adventure MMO instead of yet another *ing boring shitty 80 levels "RPG" (spreadsheet) MMO.

Raspberry Jam, my old comrade in arms... though, those aviator sunglasses always gave me the spooks, it's good to see someone who sticks with the same avatar.

Pleasantries aside, The skill acquisition system is one way to simulate character progression. Secondly with the intended horizontal skill progression, the intention is time/quantity of skills on offer is too high for any one character to ever have them all. This leads to 1. meaningful choices per player chooses what skills are gained by what they are preferring to do (this is discussed in more detail than this condensed summary here:   Your Pathfinder Online Character)*. This means that characters can specialise which means that groups of players will involve players taking on specific roles; which means there's a demand for both "specialists" and groups of such. Something like that.

I think it's about removing skill-training/progression forms of grind on the one hand grinding xp in game is boring and on the other repeating actions ad nauseum to level them up is tedious. This system attempts to by-pass that. As to why it's not an action game, it's an RPG where character growth via adventure is the simulated, I think? If you can elaborate on what you mean/are looking for,

Quote

"what would I not give to have a real action/adventure MMO"

There's a reason why progress apart from the above is done in a time-dependent way. But each skill is set on a lower power-curve so you train up a few months and it's not that far off it's max...

Corsair, on 15 January 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

There is something that people find horribly enthralling about horizontal progression. I've never understood it, myself.

...I think a mmorpg should ideally be, concerning char progression: "The more can do, the more there IS to do". Possibly? As well as the more time invested in a character the more value it has.

These guys Goblin Works are also in the Seattle area, if you were not already aware/interested, Corsair?

*edit: link added, oops. It's a very good read.

Edited by Turambar, 15 January 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[FoxBat]

The reason the game has progression is because it's effing Pathfinder. I know they're taking near nothing of the D&D rules but they have to keep that spirit of progression alive somehow, just like there are still magic items and dungeon delves and names/archetypes covering the core classes. It's radical enough as is that they are using EVE for a progression model.

Edited by FoxBat, 15 January 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[HawkofStorms]

They also said something about not expecting people to reach max level until 3 years into the game.  It is NOT meant to be a grind.  It is actually supposed to have such deep, complex character progression that you never reach "max."


It isn't an MMO based system where you can/are supposed to grind to max level.

Its a pen and paper RPG system, were leveling is more of an event and a means, not an end.

It's the journey, not the destination.  At least, that's the concept they are going for.  If they actually can pull it off though...

[draxynnic]

Corsair, on 15 January 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

There is something that people find horribly enthralling about horizontal progression. I've never understood it, myself.

Replace "horizontal" with "vertical" and that would be exactly my view. Where's the fascination in getting bigger numbers just so you can fight monsters who have equally bigger numbers, with the end result that you're doing the same thing that you did when your build first came together?

I'm aware that there are people who do like that, and they deserve to have games catered to their taste, but it would be nice to be extended the same courtesy in turn, especially when it comes to games that are marketed as having horizontal rather than vertical progression.

Regarding this one - I'm probably not going to get it, despite being a Pathfinder player, but that's because of other decisions they've made with the gameplay.

Edited by draxynnic, 17 January 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Corsair]

draxynnic, on 17 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

-snip-

Oh bugger, I got them mixed up again. I'm in the same boat with you, drax. I'm fine with horizontal, more abilities etc up to a point. Most MMOs do take it too far, though. I'm sorry, I don't need 30 keybinds when half the abilities are variations on one another.

[draxynnic]

Heh. I must admit, I was wondering - not enough to say with certainty "no, he's obviously got them mixed up", but enough to have that feeling of "there's something not right with this picture..."

And yeah, for a real-time game there is certainly a point where the number of abilities available starts to get silly. One of the advantages of the Guild Wars system, really - you have choices in your skills, but you're not trying to manage dozens of them at once unless (in GW2) you choose to.

[raspberry jam]

Turambar, on 15 January 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Raspberry Jam, my old comrade in arms... though, those aviator sunglasses always gave me the spooks, it's good to see someone who sticks with the same avatar.

Pleasantries aside, The skill acquisition system is one way to simulate character progression. Secondly with the intended horizontal skill progression, the intention is time/quantity of skills on offer is too high for any one character to ever have them all. This leads to 1. meaningful choices per player chooses what skills are gained by what they are preferring to do (this is discussed in more detail than this condensed summary here:   Your Pathfinder Online Character)*. This means that characters can specialise which means that groups of players will involve players taking on specific roles; which means there's a demand for both "specialists" and groups of such. Something like that.

I think it's about removing skill-training/progression forms of grind on the one hand grinding xp in game is boring and on the other repeating actions ad nauseum to level them up is tedious. This system attempts to by-pass that. As to why it's not an action game, it's an RPG where character growth via adventure is the simulated, I think? If you can elaborate on what you mean/are looking for,
There's a reason why progress apart from the above is done in a time-dependent way. But each skill is set on a lower power-curve so you train up a few months and it's not that far off it's max...

But if it's growth via the adventure then why will I progress even when I'm logged out? Is my character doing adventure without me?

Anyway, your reply is a very nice one, unfortunately it doesn't fit my question. I don't question the removal of xp grind - I think that is a step forward. My question is why did they replace it with a system where you "grind" by waiting? It's sort of the same thing, apart from instead of watching TV while I grind I can now pay enough attention to watch some artsy movie instead - but I still need to wait.

What I would like is to play the game for 5+ years, and then when my friend who just bought the game creates her first character, she'll be statistically competitive with me. Not having all my abilities, but having a small set of standard abilities as well as having as much health or what not as me. That would be the ideal.

I read the link and I ran into an amazing quote.

Quote

This system of character advancement [xp grind] has been honed and refined in tabletop RPGs for more than 30 years, and it works very well there. However, it does not translate well to an MMO.

It only took 20ish years for someone to say it, huh...

Edited by raspberry jam, 17 January 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Arduin]

Biggest question is going to be if people are going to play this game like it is intended to be played or whether the developers will eventually cave in to the demands of the themepark MMO-players.

Edited by Arduin, 17 January 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Arngrim Einheri]

Another thing that flies around my head is that I understood that when the game finally comes out, they were going to implement a hybrid sub-fee/F2P system? More info on how would this work?

[Turambar]

HawkofStorms, on 16 January 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

They also said something about not expecting people to reach max level until 3 years into the game.  It is NOT meant to be a grind.  It is actually supposed to have such deep, complex character progression that you never reach "max."

Bingo.

About 2.5yrs for the 1st to reach lvl20 (it's aping the Pathfinder levels but more the mid-section power only). That's fastest when people will likely multi-skill train. The idea is for a longevity of game, progression needs to suitably long.

draxynnic, on 17 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Regarding this one - I'm probably not going to get it, despite being a Pathfinder player, but that's because of other decisions they've made with the gameplay.

Always interested in hearing/reading your posts: Which other decisions on the gameplay? The open pvp is obviously a divider due to griefing in past mmorpgs...

draxynnic, on 17 January 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

And yeah, for a real-time game there is certainly a point where the number of abilities available starts to get silly. One of the advantages of the Guild Wars system, really - you have choices in your skills, but you're not trying to manage dozens of them at once unless (in GW2) you choose to.

There will be the similar "slotting" system of at least weapons in PFO: x3 weapon sets can be carried. Some slots can be customized - you just have to skill-train to use the particular weapon/gain the particular skill.More in this blog: A Three-Headed Hydra

[Turambar]

raspberry jam, on 17 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

But if it's growth via the adventure then why will I progress even when I'm logged out? Is my character doing adventure without me?

-snip-My question is why did they replace it with a system where you "grind" by waiting?

What I would like is to play the game for 5+ years, and then when my friend who just bought the game creates her first character, she'll be statistically competitive with me. Not having all my abilities, but having a small set of standard abilities as well as having as much health or what not as me. That would be the ideal.

The reason time is involved: Is it's the same rate for all players so it solves the differential "levelling/progression" of players that can play 12hrs a day for eg. Secondly the longer a player trains a character, the more value that character has so PFO as per EVE Online (which still has some crazy figure of about 10-17% of players who started still playing EVE).

The power-curve is lower, so newer players take a few months to level a skill and that is fairly near it's max. power by then even if more months will get it closer to max. So the design goal is experienced players have more versatility (things they can do) whereas newer players are a) useful and b. comparative depending on the scenario and how far from day 0 they are. It's still early days so no idea how/what extent that will transpire. But for illustration a combat is aimed to combine: level, numbers of combatants, equipment, skill of players - which sounds like the more variables the more even they all are (apart from numbers) - it's also the case that new players will be hoovered up by guilds (aka charted companies/settlements etc).

Arduin, on 17 January 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Biggest question is going to be if people are going to play this game like it is intended to be played or whether the developers will eventually cave in to the demands of the themepark MMO-players.

I think it's impossible. The themepark budget is in the range of anywhere from 30-100m$ (is rift in the lower end?) and Archage which is very hybrid or attempting to around 25$m. PFO is in the 5-10$m range (I guess 6-7). So the devs don't have enough for appeasing that preference and they point out "meaningful player player" interaction is more important than expensive crafted content - because players chew through it too quickly, (the kickstarter was a extra 1m$/gauging market) on top of private investors).

Arngrim Einheri, on 17 January 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Another thing that flies around my head is that I understood that when the game finally comes out, they were going to implement a hybrid sub-fee/F2P system? More info on how would this work?

What To Expect From Early Access Beta > Why is it Paid? (it's more like a Delta than a Beta btwi!)

Kickstarter Community Thread: Subscriptions & Microtransactions (short summary)

Money Changes Everything (Virtual economy & more detail)

Edited by Turambar, 17 January 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[budong]

A friend of mine has been talking about this game for some time.  This is the first time I've seen it in depth and I have to say it looks impressive.  I've been yearning for a more sandbox approach to an mmo.  This game appears to be something that starts small and gradually grows instead of the recent mmo pattern of big lauch and dead servers within 2 months.  I can see it carving it's own niche much like Eve. Gonna be following this one.  I hope they can pull it off as I'd really like to adventure in their world.

[draxynnic]

Turambar, on 17 January 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Always interested in hearing/reading your posts: Which other decisions on the gameplay? The open pvp is obviously a divider due to griefing in past mmorpgs...

That's pretty much it, really - it seems fairly heavily aimed towards PKing. Not just that it's there, but that there's added incentive to do so by being able to loot the corpse of your victim - while they've made a big deal about the threading system meaning that they can't take your best items, it's still going to hurt, and from the PKer's perspective then not only are they going to get the fun of ruining someone else's day, they can also pretty much guarantee that they're going to get stuff that another player thought was actually worth using rather than simple vendortrash.

The overall feel is that it's being made for people who enjoy PKing. There's not anything wrong with that - different strokes for different folks and all - but it doesn't look like a game I'd enjoy.