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sPvP experimental build - Fire Rifle


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#1 aydenunited

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

A little background.

1k matches with Engineers, a few dozen tPvP, I am a decent player (sometimes), by no means pro.

I also realize we are typically considered the weakest profession overall, and I concede we need buffs. But I've tried to enlighten people that all it not terrible in PvP for Engineers on the official forums, but the whining and complaining there has all but made me give up hope for constructive conversation about our chosen profession.

This is not my main build, but it's damage was considerable (for an Engi) enough to warrant this I thought.

The build:

http://www.guildhead...7kG570V7owY8ofy

The video:



A little of this build in action in sPvP play. I don't have a tPvP team at the moment, so I get that these are not the best of players I'm against at all times, and that I messed up a bit myself (most notably overcharge shot to the bird instead of the ranger at one point for lols) but it's a good indicator of how the build works. Some things to note:
1) Haste heals at 20% life (why not 25%? so hard to time 20% in comparison but I do it a couple of times in the video)
2) Double AoE fire blasts + AoE chill at the same time
3) Static Discharge for extra "oomph"
4) Survivability


Anyway, enjoy. Sorry for the poor resolution, my computer is made of potato.

My first attempt at posting on these forums, here's to hoping this community is a little more mature than the official forums, it seems to be overall from the posts I've read thusfar.

#2 redslion

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:55 AM

Why kit refinement?

Does Medkit explosion deal a good damage with it? Or was it changed? Is flame blast good?

Oh, and my I suggest trying to get some protection procs, like Protection Injection? It helps a lot against burst and for overall survivability.

Are you sure Automated Response in worth it? I don't know how it works, but I think when you are over 25% again, it goes on cooldown, so I'd use it for a heal over time spec.

P.S: didn't have time to watch the video, so I'm sorry if some answer would have been found there.

Edited by redslion, 06 January 2013 - 01:05 AM.


#3 aydenunited

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:17 AM

I'm still tweaking the stats... like for instance I've tried 20% longer burn trait, 20 points in Explosives for more power, etc.

Kit refinement + Medikit is one of the only reasons the build works at all, not because of the medikit explosion, but because of how Rune of Baalthazar works with it, providing an AoE fire + Blast Trigger. Test it for yourself in the mists... with this build, I can jump in with jump shot, apply Incendiary Ammo while in the air and press my heal for Medikit (1st AoE fire) and then my weapon swap to FT (2nd AoE fire) followed by Rocket Kick (more fire). The burning condition lasts over 20 seconds long. You've just added 20 seconds of burning to your power rifle build.

Condition removal kills this, obviously, but at least they have to try, as since you'll be applying bleeds as well, they have to remove more than one condition, where with our typical power rifle builds, bleeds are the only condition, and they are mostly negligible.

Automated response I take in any build with no condition removal, because it gives me enough time to reset the fight so to speak, as long as I've got my opponent down to a similar level. Without their conditions, it puts on on even ground for a bit longer, and I've never had any problems keeping conditions off after 25%, maybe because all the big condition bursts are on CD at the time, I'm really not sure, but it never happens to me. I never run without SOME kind of condition mitigation, and fortunately this is a decent alternative when you can't run potions because of running a static discharge spec.

I actually did swap back to Protection Injection. Considering the majority of the burn damage I'm getting from this spec comes from kit swapping and rocket kick, I decided (and tested) and found the 15% FT damage wasn't worth it.

Anyway, thank you for the response. If you watch the vid you'll see a little of how these things work together... such as using your given haste from the runes for a quick heal, or how to back to back AoE... AoE fire, Blast Trigger, Frost Blast, and another AoE fire all in about a second, and the fire lasts 20 seconds afterwards? It's been working pretty well for me so far. Considering our damage options are limited, I'm taking what I can get.

#4 aydenunited

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:48 PM

Since there have been some views and a few people interested in this build, I've made some updates.

I took the 20 points from the Firearms line and moved them to Explosives, like a typical power build. The additional 200 power + stacking might each time you swap to medikit (which you will do frequently for the AoE fire blast) seemed to lend itself to a MUCH stronger fire attack and powerful build overall. My dilemma, then, was CC... I wanted to use Battering Ram for an extra knockback (to have a total of 3 with the FT) but the 45 second CD threw me, and I didn't want to spend more points in the Tools line to get it, I can't afford to sacrifice anything, so... what else works with Static Discharge and has a little CC? The Toolkit. It's been a little more difficult to work this, but thusfar, the damage potential has gone up even higher, as well as the survivability with a 3 second block now available, as well as more bleeds from caltrops set down with Kit Refinement.

Not going to post any videos on this for now, as this, at the moment, is a fantastic pub-stomp and 1v1 spec, it can solo bunker Eles and Mesmers though with a good measure of time and effort, and is probably my best personal build so far, but for tPvP it offers little to the team, unlike bunker, support heal, or burst Engie. Since my new team is still in the works and there's no pressure, I may be able to work this into our tournament rotations and see if we can notice any sizable result, I'm curious to see how much this spec can bring to the table. The damage against any character without condition removal is massive.

#5 redslion

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:18 AM

I would suggest you bomb kit. But it may be pushing your original idea. Works wonders against melee, and has a hard-hitting AOE knockback on a 30 seconds cooldown. But it doesn't work well with Static Discharge.

What traits do you use in explosives?

And what about toolkit? With power wrench really adds a lot to your damage. I used it in a similar build, but because of my low reflexes I didn't have much luck killing people (luckily, they didn't have more killing me.XD)... maybe you could put it on a better use.

Or maybe controls like Net turret are the ones who make your build work well... even if it's weaker against pet classes (expecially mesmers and necros).

Edited by redslion, 07 January 2013 - 12:21 AM.


#6 aydenunited

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:38 AM

This build has zero problem with melee, it's only ranged condition damage. I do like Big Ol' Bomb and have considered swapping FT for it, but this build utilizes the fire damage from the AoE kit swap too much to let that one go. I might swap it in the place of Toolkit later, but I REALLY like Magnet and  Gear Shield.

If you'll read my update, you'll see I put Toolkit in and the 1v1 results were astounding, I have not lost a single 1v1 match yet since giving myself a 3 second block option as well as how Kit Refinement further ups the use of caltrops for this build.

Net turret doesn't synergize with the build because I WANT people to rush me, the AoE condition damage is the main point of the build.

This spec is also a Thief buster, it's so easy to beat backstab thieves it's silly. All you have to do is hit one net shot and they're finished, because follow it up with Jump Shot + swap to medikit in the air, swap to FT when you hit the ground, and they are stacked with so many conditions and damage they will either run, or try to keep fighting and die (generalization). But in general with this build, you won't have to worry about melee classes again (remember that kits swaps work even during stun).

#7 redslion

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

Ah, realized just now: gw2 wiki is wrong.

It says kit refinement triggers a flame blast on flamethrower. And puts the link of the #2 skill of the kit.

Well, it's a AoE burn. Shame on me to discover that just today. Shame on me.

However, I find hard to play your build. Surely has good burst, and I'll remember how AWESOME burn can be even in a power/bunker build. But you just have to juggle among so many tools, and you are not a complete bunker.
...And I never got used to static discharge :P

But I think it could be good for group conquering. Surely the least thing someone expects when fighting a rifle engineer is being downed by burns.

Edited by redslion, 09 January 2013 - 12:32 AM.


#8 aydenunited

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

The Kit Refinement for FT also appears to remove a condition, have not tested this enough to tell for sure, or it might be a bug.

My tPvP version of this replaces Static Discharge with Speedy Kits, and replaces Rocket Boots with Elixir R both for rezzing myself and others. Once you get the hang of the getting in tight, blasting conditions and getting back out again style of this build, it becomes a great roamer build with those changes.I don't have a full team yet, but in the games we've played, I've been able to perform that role well, and it's sometimes nice to have your roamer be able to quickly rez or CC rather than just be straight focus target burst, and we get there just about as fast as any with Speedy Kits.

#9 redslion

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:58 PM

http://gw2skills.net...JbTumkNNW4QyUAA

I created this build, starting from tankcat. I think pistol damage is excellent for sustained damage. And it's easier to land on enemy. Many times,I found myself sunken in anger, when I missed a jumpshot and the enemy got back to full health. Pistols are easier to use. AND they DON'T make red circles on the ground.

Other than that, this build should be able to give some good AoE damage. AND should have an easier time downing guardian bunkers, for they have smaller healthbars, we constantly apply poison, and we apply conditions faster than they remove them.

To make sure I have enough condition damage, I use might stacking. I manage to reach 800 condition damage, which I think is pretty decent, and is a big punch with burning. And confusion. Because You can get a great deal of help from it.

AND we still have a 2700 armor, 23k health, with some nice protection procs. And good healing from medkit. And power for bombing.

#10 aydenunited

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

I've run similar builds before to some good effect, and in a team where you know your role as such it's pretty useful, but in general I don't run any builds like that anymore due to lack of any condition mitigation.

#11 redslion

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:04 AM

Ah! You are right! I knew I had forgotten something in that build.

Only idea could be scrap Inventions 10 points and unlock automated response. But I don't trust that trait.

Mmmh... I see this build as something like a heavy roamer, who can soak something in group fight, battle a bunker and maybe hold a point for a bit of time in some situations... am I right?

#12 aydenunited

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:07 AM

If you have 23k life and 2.7k toughness, you can trust Automated Response. But don't just take my word, try it for a while and see how much better you do against Necros.

It's useless if you run a glass-cannon build, but that's a pretty tough build you have there, and knowing you basically can't be finished by conditions alone can be huge.

That build I would classify as a bunker-buster. The main point is to get in and take out a bunker, because you can load the node up with knockbacks and powerful damage, and also you're kind of a mini-bunker yourself... if you get some condition removal. :)

#13 aydenunited

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:34 AM

Here is me running the updated and (I think) final version of this build in some pug play. I know you can't judge it by pug play, but it's still an entertaining watch if you can get past the potato quality of the vid, and it still showcases it's potential IMO.



#14 redslion

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

View Postaydenunited, on 10 January 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

If you have 23k life and 2.7k toughness, you can trust Automated Response. But don't just take my word, try it for a while and see how much better you do against Necros.

It's useless if you run a glass-cannon build, but that's a pretty tough build you have there, and knowing you basically can't be finished by conditions alone can be huge.

That build I would classify as a bunker-buster. The main point is to get in and take out a bunker, because you can load the node up with knockbacks and powerful damage, and also you're kind of a mini-bunker yourself... if you get some condition removal. :)

Yeah, tried it in some hotjoin... Necrose are a real nightmare.

This build is really hard to play. You just have so many resources, that at the end of every fight you realise you forgot about half. But seems like it has a good damage. I don't know about resistance, because in 8v8 you can be overrun in a second. Zergs are much more frequent than in 5v5s.

#15 aydenunited

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:55 AM

I typically don't play 8v8s, to me, that's basically an impossible to balance game mode in general.

I need to get some footage of me taking on some Necros, the problem is, they rarely run by themselves in hotjoin.

There are a lot of resources to juggle, but I think you work your way up to a point... I remember when I first started my Engineer, I ran with only turrets, because I couldn't get used to the kit-swap. Then I added one kit, and got used to that. Then I was adding 2, and now 3, and it's pretty instinctive, but it took some muscle memory. I can't see going 4 just because I can't see any well rounded spec without a stun-break, and the utility of Elixer R and Elixer S is just insane.

#16 MrForz

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

Yes, you need to get used to the kits, starting with a good old fashionned Rifle + Grenades is a good way to go, then more complex builds that may include utility skills inside kits like Flamethrower and Elixir Gun. At the end of the day, you don't need to remember, you just know, just like the Elementalist gameplay, without the cooldowns.

Concerning Necromancers... Well, bad experience, but the few times I was actually able to take on decent Necromancers it was with a glass cannon, CC-spamming, rifle build.

#17 redslion

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

I know, but seems like this build is... particular. You have just so many skills to land. Is one of those builds that make you play your engineer 100%.

It's INCREDIBLY fearsome in 1v1, but seems like is kinda hard to kill someone in 1v2... I am too focused trying to stay alive.

And it's frustrating how magnetic pull works. Seems like sometimes it pulls your target behind you, sometimes only half the distance it should...
Considering I'm used to do magnetic pull -> prybar, when this happens, I waste it.

But whatever, the condition stacking hits really hard.

I'm just a bit concerned about the fact I can't use Rune of the earth without dumping condition damage: I admit I'm a bit addicted on Protection.

#18 redslion

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

Ah, I think without protective shield we might have problems against thieves: mostly when I'm already fighting someone, a thief can backstab me and deal a big burst on me before I even realize what's going on, for I was already to focused on other guys.
I think the build needs protective shield, for it will surely pop on thieves bursts.

#19 MrForz

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

View Postredslion, on 22 January 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Ah, I think without protective shield we might have problems against thieves: mostly when I'm already fighting someone, a thief can backstab me and deal a big burst on me before I even realize what's going on, for I was already to focused on other guys.
I think the build needs protective shield, for it will surely pop on thieves bursts.

Oh but that's the Thief's main strength anyways, you ever saw it coming, you'd raise that Gear Shield.

#20 redslion

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

I know, I just don't want thieves to do their main strength.XD




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