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Is greatsword useless on everything but Mesmer?


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#1 iLag

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:15 AM

I dont play Ranger but just wondering.

ON guardian for control much better things and for damage much better sets.

On Warrior hundred blades root is so *ing ineffective and this is considered the best Greatsword profession.

Then why are the greatswords the sexiest legendaries? this totally makes my mind *ed.

#2 Khrushchev

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:21 AM

On Guardian/Warrior, it can be played relatively effectively with no thought. It can be used to great effect on Warrior though, one guy has videos of some impressive solos (Lupicus comes to mind).

Ranger greatsword is great for movement.

#3 Bloggi

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

The opinions on this may vary a bit, but the greatsword is the key weapon on my warrior and likely also my guardian. ALL 5 skills are useful with both these professions.

#4 Cevilo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:09 AM

I feel the opposite, great sword seems to be the corner stone weapon for most classes that can use it.

#5 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:40 AM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

I dont play Ranger but just wondering.

ON guardian for control much better things and for damage much better sets.

On Warrior hundred blades root is so *ing ineffective and this is considered the best Greatsword profession.

Then why are the greatswords the sexiest legendaries? this totally makes my mind *ed.

Uh, greatsword is the best damage for both warrior and guardian.  I'd like to see what better damage alternatives you're suggesting in their place.

#6 Skibba

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:51 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 10 January 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Uh, greatsword is the best damage for both warrior and guardian

This.

http://www.guildwars...tive-dps-tests/

#7 iLag

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 10 January 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Uh, greatsword is the best damage for both warrior and guardian.  I'd like to see what better damage alternatives you're suggesting in their place.
I will look into guardian. But for greatsword 025 Strife has tested it with axe/mace and proved so NOT. Also you are counting in the hundred blades of a warrior which is a problem by itself in anything other than PvE( WvW which im not sure which section of proff forums that is since its mixed.)

#8 iLag

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

I will look into guardian. But for greatsword 025 Strife has tested it with axe/mace and proved so NOT. Also you are counting in the hundred blades of a warrior which is a problem by itself in anything other than PvE( WvW which im not sure which section of proff forums that is since its mixed.)
On guardian, you only test scepter and sword by itself. But not scepter with focus and sword with torch. This is implying 1h and 2h  are meant to dish out the same damage if by themselves? Are you high?

#9 Dirame

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

On guardian, you only test scepter and sword by itself. But not scepter with focus and sword with torch. This is implying 1h and 2h  are meant to dish out the same damage if by themselves? Are you high?

Lol, you quoted yourself.

They weren't talking combos, if we're talking combos then greastword with bullscharge or any successful stun will do more damage than axe/mace on the warrior and the combination of damage from sceptre (2) and sword (3) would reach the damage that greatsword (2) would do on the guardian. None of those weapons would beat the guardian's greatsword damage on their own though.

#10 P4ndora

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

The only reason why it looks good on mesmer and why almost every mesmer use GS is the iZerker. It has far the best and most reliable phantasm imo. Too bad the #3 and #5 skills are nearly if not totally useless in PvE. The "autoattack" is also a so-so, it's great at distance but pretty bad in close combat.

I have a warrior and most of the time I use GS, I think their skills are amazing. Nice damage and easy to farm mobs with it (though switching to offhand axe is also great if my skills are on CD).

I don't know about guardians/rangers because I don't play them, but for me GS for warrior > GS for mesmer in PvE.

#11 armoured bearshark

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:06 PM

Nothing to argue about here, guardian greatsword has the most dps of the guardian weapon sets.

#12 Beta Sprite

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

Warrior GS is good for building tons of might and wrecking foes that you are able to root.  It looks like the damage calculation in that thread isn't taking into account that a properly built GS warrior will often have 25 stacks of might (or close to it) after a short time in combat.

#13 SirGamesalot

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

The GS is the best weapon on the Guardian, aswell as the warrior and mesmer. Dont see your problem here lol.

Edited by SirGamesalot, 10 January 2013 - 02:20 PM.


#14 Sword Hammer Axe

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

Is this a thread made just to get on people's nerves?

But yeah, I'd say that GS is pretty much preferred on both Warrior, Guardian, and of course Mesmer. Ranger is pretty good too, though people tend to prefer other weapons over this.

#15 CepaCepa

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostP4ndora, on 10 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

The only reason why it looks good on mesmer and why almost every mesmer use GS is the iZerker. It has far the best and most reliable phantasm imo. Too bad the #3 and #5 skills are nearly if not totally useless in PvE. The "autoattack" is also a so-so, it's great at distance but pretty bad in close combat.

I have a warrior and most of the time I use GS, I think their skills are amazing. Nice damage and easy to farm mobs with it (though switching to offhand axe is also great if my skills are on CD).

I don't know about guardians/rangers because I don't play them, but for me GS for warrior > GS for mesmer in PvE.

GS damage by itself, disregard phantasms, is the highest amongst all mesmer weapon sets. That is, once you have your phantasms summoned up in good formation, you'd want to stay in greatsword to do damage, not sword not staff and not scepter. You say that #3 is not that useful, but it is a ground target aoe that hits for 2-3K crit in a cannon build and takes a fraction of a second to cast, on ANY fight you'd want to cast #3 on CD (unless you'll die from that half a second of root...), it's a dps increase both for single target and of course for aoe. Mirror blade is just too good, it's got a 5 second CD (with trait) and with trait it can bounce to the same target 3 times = 5-7K damage without might stacks on a cannon, and it also only takes a fraction of a second to cast. As for the auto, well yes it's true that spatial surge by itself will be overall less dps than say a ranger's auto, but keep in mind that ALL mesmer weapons do less damage (since we've got phantasms, so they balanced us to do less weapon damage), and Greatsword #1 is already very good for mesmers. It does similar dps with sword at max range, and a LOT more than scepter and staff. #1 + #2 + #3 casted off CD makes greatsword the highest weapon damage for a mesmer, surpassing sword and definitely surpassing staff and scepter (that is, damage coming from the mesmer himself and not phantasms).

#16 lmaonade

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

I dont play Ranger but just wondering.

ON guardian for control much better things and for damage much better sets.

On Warrior hundred blades root is so *ing ineffective and this is considered the best Greatsword profession.

Then why are the greatswords the sexiest legendaries? this totally makes my mind *ed.

On Guardian it's one of the most complete and effective weapon sets in the game, it doesn't fit into any niche because it does everything well

On Warrior it's more useful than you think it is, Hundred Blades has it's uses as a damage dealing move, but what REALLY makes the weapon set is Whirlwind Attack, high damage, mobility, evasion, and fairly low cooldown, one of the best weapon moves in the game.

The Ranger greatsword set is more about defense than anything so it's really incomparable to the rest of the greatsword sets

#17 Craywulf

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

If all you're going do is judge a weapon based on damage, then pretty much every profession's repertoire of weapons are useless except save for one. Weapons in GW2 aren't strictly about damage, they are tools. A greatsword for a Ranger is great for mobility, wherein a greatsword for a Mesmer is great for ranged combat. Completely different functions and different damage outputs. Try focusing less on the damage and more on what the weapon skills have to offer and how best to compliment those skills with your tactics and usage of utility skills, as well as other weapon skills if you can swap them.

As someone who plays the Necromancer and the Ranger, I can't tell you how important it is to maximize weapon-swapping.

#18 iLag

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:39 PM

View PostCraywulf, on 10 January 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

If all you're going do is judge a weapon based on damage, then pretty much every profession's repertoire of weapons are useless except save for one. Weapons in GW2 aren't strictly about damage, they are tools. A greatsword for a Ranger is great for mobility, wherein a greatsword for a Mesmer is great for ranged combat. Completely different functions and different damage outputs. Try focusing less on the damage and more on what the weapon skills have to offer and how best to compliment those skills with your tactics and usage of utility skills, as well as other weapon skills if you can swap them.

As someone who plays the Necromancer and the Ranger, I can't tell you how important it is to maximize weapon-swapping.
I dont know about Ranger like I said I'm sorry. I agree with you but if the single reason a greatsword exists is for damage and maybe mobility ( Not for guardian ) other weaponsets can do it better atleast in PvE. In PvP everyone dodges hundred blades because they aren't *ed up in the head. Guardians greatsword is really good control but guess what? Theres more guardian sets with more control and individual sets with more damage.

#19 lmaonade

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:44 PM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

I dont know about Ranger like I said I'm sorry. I agree with you but if the single reason a greatsword exists is for damage and maybe mobility ( Not for guardian ) other weaponsets can do it better atleast in PvE. In PvP everyone dodges hundred blades because they aren't *ed up in the head. Guardians greatsword is really good control but guess what? Theres more guardian sets with more control and individual sets with more damage.

Actually for Guardian there is no set with higher damage than Greatsword

#20 Mr_Finesse

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

The greatsword is the weapon used by mesmers that don't know how to play mesmers.

#21 kalendraf

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

I find greatsword to be a good fit for ranger for my style of play in PvE.  I recently leveled my ranger to 80, and I probably used GS for 80% of the PvE combat.  The standard attack damage is decent, the maul (#2) is an easy way to apply some condition dmg.  The swoop attack ability (#3) is fantastic for closing, and it serves as a leap finisher which allows for some easy self-combos with fields.   The utility of counterattack and crippling throw (#4) is very handy, and the hit bash (#5) to give daze or stun are also very useful.

The more I play GW2, the more I find myself gravitating toward melee style, even on classes we might not normally associate with melee combat.  The Greatsword is a great fit for this on the ranger.  However, this style may not be for everyone.

#22 CepaCepa

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostMr_Finesse, on 10 January 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

The greatsword is the weapon used by mesmers that don't know how to play mesmers.

Or the mesmers that like to do damage. :)

#23 Wifflebottom

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:50 PM

Mesmer greatsword is not that great -.- what are you talking about...

#24 Hopus

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:52 PM

It seems like everyone is talking about damage. Damage is not everything.
I run offensive support banner spec with Greatsword on my warrior. It gives me decent damage and mobility other weapons can't compete with. While damage might not be the highest, mobility and uptime is great. Landing hundred blades is not a problem in PvE. Probably sometimes can't spam it on cooldown, but hey, mashing skills on cooldown is not actually super fun and skillful. It requires positioning.
+ it's super fun to play.
Slowly working on my legendary as well.

#25 iLag

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostWifflebottom, on 10 January 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

Mesmer greatsword is not that great -.- what are you talking about...
It's the best single target damage for a mesmer.

#26 Mr_Finesse

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:08 AM

Actually the best single target damage for the Mesmer is Mind Wrack.

#27 Wifflebottom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

It's the best single target damage for a mesmer.
Are you just ignoring iwarlock's damage against a boss with every condition on them? Or a shatter mesmer's mindwrack? Sure GS is very effective against inanimate objects. Also, direct damage isn't the only factor in considering a good weapon. Staff gives you defense, offense through conditions and iwarlock, mobility, and group support, AND it's 1200 range. GS gives you good damage at 1200 range, bleeding illusions, a knockback that's underwhelming in PvE, mirror blade because summoning a ranged clone in melee range makes sense, and mind stab is mind stab; terrible. You're complaining about one bad skill on GS warrior guess what? Mesmers have three

GS warriors and guardians are fine, if you're failing with a GS as a warrior then you're just bad...

Edited by Wifflebottom, 11 January 2013 - 12:11 AM.


#28 Elysen

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:40 AM

View PostiLag, on 10 January 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

...But for greatsword 025 Strife has tested it with axe/mace and proved so NOT...

I have a lot of respect for this guy, a lot, but

View PostStrife025, on 13 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

...Greatsword still has the potential to do similar, and sometimes even more damage then Axe/Mace...
, it is just generally disliked due to the root of 100B. I don't play a Warrior, but I believe Axe/Mace is more burst, and GS is more sustained. GS could be perceived as useless in PUGs as people like to knockback and spread mobs out for an odd reason.

As for a GS on a Guardian, it is the best damaging weapon we can use. In addition to this, the #5 ability allows you to bunch up a group of mobs, allowing for cleave/AOE DPS by your group. You could argue you can factor this into your DPS potential with the GS.

I can't speak for a Ranger.

Edited by Xephenon, 11 January 2013 - 03:40 AM.


#29 CepaCepa

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:13 AM

View PostWifflebottom, on 10 January 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

Mesmer greatsword is not that great -.- what are you talking about...

View PostMr_Finesse, on 11 January 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

Actually the best single target damage for the Mesmer is Mind Wrack.

Well, I don't know where this idea of "mesmers using greatsword don't shatter and can't have staff equipped on the other weapon set" comes from... But you see, mind wrack has a 10 sec CD after 30% reduction, and iWarlock has a 15 sec CD, while weapon swaps have 7 second CD (and it's VERY important to weapon swap for a mesmer to take maximum advantage of summon skills on both weapons, whether for shatter fodders or for quick phantasm setup), you're going to need some filler time between phantasm summons and shatters, which brings us to "pure weapon damage" ---- Wind of chaos is horribad, it is just horribad. With the extra bounce trait it would be finally "decent", but still a LOT less than greatsword #1 alone, not even considering #2 and #3 combined damage. Now, ideally 15 seconds into a boss fight you should have already established 3 phantasms assume they're not dead, so now you'd want to keep them alive WHILE maximizing your weapon damage, which is why GS is critical to have. Yes Staff #2 is quite good, and accessing it is just a matter of pressing ~ followed by 2, it's not like you're only equipping one weapon, ultimately though you'd want to stay in GS rather than staff when the important things are on CD.

And you say mirror blade is bad? With trait it bounces to the same target 3 times doing 2-3K crit damage each time, it has 5 sec CD, takes next to no time to cast, gives yourself or a party member 6 stacks of might OR hits a second mob for another 2-3K crit damage twice, on top of it it spawns a clone in melee range ---- You say it doesn't make sense, but I love it --- the clone is right in the face of the mob, ready to be shattered, and ready to take a bullet for my phantasms which worth a whole lot more than that clone. You say mind stab is bad? It is a small AoE that does good damage and easy to cast with a short CD, you cast it on CD, period. As for Illusionary Wave, it serves as an interupt/movement control, and while in easier dungeons it's indeed not that useful, it is wonderful in things like fractals.

Staff and Greatsword both generate clones/phantasms fast and easy, which helps with shattering. In some fights, no I should say even within one fight, you'd often finding sometimes you need to chain shatter and sometimes you can gamble on bringing out 3 phantasms and keep them alive. It's not like you can't shatter with GS/Staff... =_=

Lastly, regarding the damages themselves: mind wrack with 20% dmg increase trait and 30% CD reduction AND illusionary persona, in full berserker gear hits from 8K non crit to 20K crit, with 50% crit chance averaging to 14K damage per execution, which means 1.4K dps. iBerserker hits for an average of 5K every 5 second for each ONE of them (with proper traits, remember there's perma fury on them), this means that each one is worth 1K dps, and which further means that whenever you have 2 or more phantasms on the field you should not shatter. iWarlock can do upward to 10K damage every 6 seconds, this number fluctuates depending on how many conditions are on the mob but basically the same idea. Now, the point is, if you're just sitting there doing nothing but waiting for shatter OR waiting for phantasms to hit, that's not acceptable dps... All these wasted time in between should be filled with weapon damage. Think about this, Greatsword #2 alone with its CD and dmg is worth 1K dps ON TOP of whatever else you have, Add in #3 and #1 your weapon damage would be around 2.5K dps. With staff, you'd be sitting at around 500-1K dps. Mesmer is all about having damage from many different sources that adds up to a huge amount, just because mind wrack hits hard doesn't mean we just sit there and wait for it to come off CD...We'd be horrible dps that way.

Lastly, iBerserker is our most reliable aoe dps phantasm, GS #2 and #3 are both AoE, #5 is an aoe too, so between shatter CDs greatsword is our best AoE choice, by far.

#30 Wifflebottom

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

How about this

View PostCepaCepa, on 11 January 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

-snip-
Your ignoring the fact that iBerserker almost ALWAYS dies before it attacks or right after it's first attack. Mirror blade. Okay, it gives vulnerability or might but I'm doing that constantly with staff 1, albeit fewer stacks but the constant upkeep makes up for it. And I can't believe you're defending mind stab, sword auto attack does the same thing... And of course mesmers dish out damage from various sources: conditions where staff reigns supreme, reflect, phantasms (ranged phantasms have better sustained damage than melee phantasms), and shatters.

I'm not saying GS is terrible but it is outclassed by mh sword and pistol/focus and staff. PvE enemies very rarely sit at 1200 range which is where most of GS damage comes from.




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