126 replies to this topic

[Millimidget]

XPhiler, on 22 January 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Exploiting reduces the enjoyment of the game for legitimate players.

It really never bothered me. That whole issue with pre-cursors and abyssmal drop rates, culling, poor PvP balance, amongst others are what drove me off.

And it's hard for me to take seriously the argument that this was about curbing exploiting when they totally ignored the HotW exploit, which as far as an exploit goes may not pose a greater "threat" to the in-game economy, but certainly was a far more egregious violation of the spirit of the game. To me, it's like letting the serial rapist go free while applying the full extent of the law against some kid who stole a candy bar in the supermarket.

That right there tells me it's about money, just like the awful drop rates on precursors and the continued implicit support of precursor price manipulators. It's as unappealing to me as Wall Street employees are to those pampered occupy anarchists.

[XPhiler]

Millimidget, on 24 January 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

It really never bothered me. That whole issue with pre-cursors and abyssmal drop rates, culling, poor PvP balance, amongst others are what drove me off.

And it's hard for me to take seriously the argument that this was about curbing exploiting when they totally ignored the HotW exploit, which as far as an exploit goes may not pose a greater "threat" to the in-game economy, but certainly was a far more egregious violation of the spirit of the game. To me, it's like letting the serial rapist go free while applying the full extent of the law against some kid who stole a candy bar in the supermarket.

That right there tells me it's about money, just like the awful drop rates on precursors and the continued implicit support of precursor price manipulators. It's as unappealing to me as Wall Street employees are to those pampered occupy anarchists.

If it were me I would have taken action against HoTW exploiters as well but I would say this is indeed less serious for a number of reasons. One due to DR there is a cap of how much you can profit. 2 stuff you buy with Tokens is bound so you can hurt the economy. No saying its okey, far from it but at least its not affecting other players. The Ecto exploit on the other hand did. in 2 days prices of ectos fell 30% thats 30% less profit for people who farm ectos without exploiting. And it has repercussions on crafting as well.

[Illein]

XPhiler, on 24 January 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

If it were me I would have taken action against HoTW exploiters as well but I would say this is indeed less serious for a number of reasons. One due to DR there is a cap of how much you can profit. 2 stuff you buy with Tokens is bound so you can hurt the economy. No saying its okey, far from it but at least its not affecting other players. The Ecto exploit on the other hand did. in 2 days prices of ectos fell 30% thats 30% less profit for people who farm ectos without exploiting. And it has repercussions on crafting as well.

Before someone else comes up with the point that you could get Tokens and buy exotics to pull ectos from - Just let it go, it doesn't even compare.

Edited by Illein, 24 January 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

Illein, on 24 January 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Before someone else comes up with the point that you could get Tokens and buy exotics to pull ectos from - Just let it go, it doesn't even compare.

Aye i was planning to post it. And no, no exotics, just loads rares, poofing ectos from thin air.

[Rumstein]

XPhiler, on 21 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

EU law doesnt render EULAs null and void as far as I know. A Eula is rendered null and void in the EU only if you have no way to review it prior to making a purchase. Basically when you buy stuff, whatever that might be there is a sales contract made whatever conditions the seller makes (which includes the EULA) has to be something you agree to prior to actually making the purchase. The EU only stated shrink wrapped EULAs are null and void (Shrink wrapped EULAs are EULAs that are inside the box of whatever software you buy so obviously you cannot read and agree to them prior to actually buying the box but EU law says you cant force someone to agree to conditions retroactively which makes sense.) this however doesnt apply here because GW2 EULA is not shrinkwrapped at all. its freely available to review when you make the purchase.

I am no lawyer and I might be totally wrong cant exclude that obviously but I think this is a case where people took a specific situation and made it applicable to all cases which isnt necessary the case here.

Also note you didnt pay for the service, you paid for the game. They're offering you the service as part of the agreement and in that agreement it says that ncsoft is offering you the service in exchange with you respecting every provision of the agreement.

Notice that I just said "the EULA" (meaning this one in particular) not "all EULAs".

But you are correct with the reason as to why this EULA is null. They are only valid in the EU when available prior to purchase of the service/goods. As you had to bu the game and create an account to see it or agree, it is null.

This doesn't apply to the US, but it's likely that they couldn't be bothered fighting it when precedents exist for them to lose.

[XPhiler]

Rumstein, on 29 January 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Notice that I just said "the EULA" (meaning this one in particular) not "all EULAs".

But you are correct with the reason as to why this EULA is null. They are only valid in the EU when available prior to purchase of the service/goods. As you had to bu the game and create an account to see it or agree, it is null.

This doesn't apply to the US, but it's likely that they couldn't be bothered fighting it when precedents exist for them to lose.

I am afraid you're wrong, you dont need to create an account to view the EULA and you didnt have to buy the game to view it either. Here is the link: https://www.guildwar...user-agreement/

The legal documents are linked on every single page not even just in the buy page. There is no way one can argue they couldnt review the user agreement before buying because its freely available for everyone to see.

[d_fens]

XPhiler, on 29 January 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

I am afraid you're wrong, you dont need to create an account to view the EULA and you didnt have to buy the game to view it either. Here is the link: https://www.guildwar...user-agreement/

The legal documents are linked on every single page not even just in the buy page. There is no way one can argue they couldnt review the user agreement before buying because its freely available for everyone to see.

Link printed on a box is not enough. EU courts ruled this many times. If you purchase a boxed game, you need to see EULA/ToS/License in print before paying. Retailer is the one responsible for making it available. Even Microsoft had to agree to this and some editions of Windows 8 box already have full license attached outside of the box.