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In general: Thief or Warrior?


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#1 Tony

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:45 PM

Hello fellow members,

Is it worth making a warrior? I've been reading about how warriors lack any fundamental input in tPvP (is this team pvp?) because every other class can do a job better (ie. DPS, roaming, defending) and in the beginning, I wanted to make a warrior for PvE+WvWvW+PvP, but now it seems like it would be a waste. They seem like they suck at WvWvW as well which is a bummer.

Should I simply make a thief (my alternative class)? I'm also new to the game, but would it be better of learning how to play the thief anyways since it can DPS in almost every aspect. Essentially, I want to be needed and thief seem to be needed in all three modes.

(Side note: I won't be able to level up both because I don't play that often so I won't to focus on one character first)

Thanks in advance!

#2 DarkGanni

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

Personally I find Thief more useful and lasts longer in WvW and PvE, not a PvPer so can't tell you on that side. On the other hand I find Warrior also good for PvE but remember to stock up on toughness and some vitality.

In your position, I'll have to say Thief might suit you better.

#3 ChuyDog08

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:19 AM

I have both, but don't play PVP. Warrior is by far the easiest to level and can dominate in PVE at all levels. Warriors in WvW tend to be less effective than the Thief, mostly use long bow to do ranged attacks, but have several skills to provide swiftness to get out of situations. Thief is a pain to level in PVE compared to the Warrior, but at higher levels can hold their own. Thief in WvW is very powerful at the moment. You can rely on their stealth skills to get into and out of combat before anyone can target you.

My suggestion would be to level the Thief to 45 or 50 using crafting (if you can), then do your story line and events to finish your leveling while getting use to your skills. After 80 jump into WvW fully equipped and if you have semi-mastered any of the basic Thief builds, you can dominate.

You didn’t mention dungeons, but a Thief is more accepted in dungeons than Warriors in my opinion.

All my active toons are level 80. The Warrior was my first toon, and I was able to complete 100% World Completion and I still use it to do farming in all high end locations. My Thief is used occasionally in WvW and farming. My Guardian is my best Dungeon alt. I use my Necromancer for Dragons and WvW. I have basically abandoned my Ranger and Engineer. They are both fun to play, but defiantly harder than my other choices. I have yet to make an Elementalist or Mesmer. However, I will have them fully leveled at some point.

#4 Tony

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:31 AM

Hmmm should I simply make a warrior for PvE and WvWvW and then PvP with thief or should I just go all out thief because it's going to be worth it in the end?

#5 Arquenya

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:02 AM

I hardly ever do PvP but from what I've heard thief is the better choice for that.

In PvE I don't really see a lot of thieves (although they're not considered underpowered and have handy utilities) and warriors are always a welcome addition to a team. They're also the easiest class to level.

#6 Akodo Akimoto

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:30 AM

If you have played fast action rpg like god of war, devil may cry and the like in the console then you will like thief because it requires you to be on your toes always. Dodging side to side, forward, backward and avoid getting hit always. Here are the comparisons of the two:

1. Thieves have the lowest hit points and wear medium armor where as warriors have the most hit points and wear heavy armor.
2. Thieves has the least available skills because they can wield very limited weapons while warriors can wield the most variety of weapons  except for the engineers and elementalists
3. Thieves have the shortest range (compare to all professions in the game not just to warrior) because they can only use pistol or shortbow which has a 900 range compared to warriors which can wield longbow or rifle 1200 range

If you are ok with these flaws of a thief then you'll be fine playing with it but if not then warrior is the way to go. Easiest class to play. The dev team already said it before that the thief is one of the hardest classes to play like the mesmer

#7 Gileas898

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:25 AM

View PostDarkGanni, on 12 January 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Personally I find Thief more useful and lasts longer in WvW and PvE, not a PvPer so can't tell you on that side. On the other hand I find Warrior also good for PvE but remember to stock up on toughness and some vitality.

In your position, I'll have to say Thief might suit you better.

If I could dislike a post this would be it. So much wrong on so many levels.

In reality, warriors are top-tier in PvE while thieves are bottom-tier. For WvWvW I'd say it depends on your style of play. Both professions can be very successful.

#8 verskore

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:35 AM

I got a lvl 51 warrior and they are really good in pve cus of the high health and armor but I rlly dont like them in WvW.
They are a bit slow (allthough they have speedbuffs) and dont do that much damage with rifle/bow. For thief, It's harder in pve because they get hit more and they dont have that much health but they can have alot of burst damage and can avoid lots of attacks. I also think that in wvw thieves are by far better than warriors because they are really fast, they can stealth alot to escape zergs or just blend in a zerg, kill a few guys and get out again safely.
If i were you i'd go for a thief but offcoarse thats just my opinion :)

#9 Cl1p

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

Warriors are prefered in pve because of their armor & shout healing build.
In WvW warriors are as good as thieves, but because their best skills are melee ranged and they have little escape skills, you will die when you are suddenly outnumbered or a zerg pops up, unless you are close to a tower. While a good thief that knows when to back off will almost never die.

I'd say it's a though choice to make, balance updates are continually to be expected anyways, personally I had a lot more fun leveling a warrior (lvl 80 , pvp & wvw) than a thief (lvl 30 & pvp). Thief just became boring to me.

#10 shiggidyshwa

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

Warriors in WvW can completely own with a rifle in non-zerg scenarios. Roll a warrior so you can more easily get a feel for the game. Then roll a thief because you'll have learned the ropes.

Don't underestimate warriors in tPvP. They have some good durability due to toughness/vitality, great DPS with the axe, and control with the hammer to make up for the lack of escape abilities.

Plus they're arguably the coolest looking class in the game with armour.

#11 rukia

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:27 PM

Thief IMO is boring as all hell, and warrior excels at every aspect of the game especially pve. I would go warrior, lest you be disappointed by the thiefs ultimate maximum 1 or 2 button rotation.

Both were easy to level for me, but warrior can facetank and all that in knights gear with sufficient crit (almost 100%) and some MF and healing power on, which is pretty amazing and afaik no other proff can do that, maybe guardian but I haven't played one. They also contribute more in groups than just DPS and refuge.

Edited by rukia, 12 January 2013 - 10:28 PM.


#12 Dorial

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

Warrior all the way.

I've been playing as a Thief since launch and it's insane how ANet has pretty much forced us to spec cheap builds like Backstab/Perma stealth etc. to be useful in PvP. We have (one of) the lowest health pool in the game, we have the most boring and underwhelming weapon skills that is in dire need of fixing. Thief is however quite enjoyable but if I could then I'd change my thief to a warrior any day.

#13 AKGeo

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostGileas898, on 12 January 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

If I could dislike a post this would be it. So much wrong on so many levels.

In reality, warriors are top-tier in PvE while thieves are bottom-tier. For WvWvW I'd say it depends on your style of play. Both professions can be very successful.

Thieves, bottom tier in pve? I beg to differ. Completely. I found my thief to be the most resilient with its stealth and evade skills out of the 5 characters I have so far, one of which being warrior. Warrior needs you to spec into toughness at the start to endure the onslaught of damage you'll be taking while trying to melee. Thief allows you to go into power and condition damage and bleed your opponent to death with DB and caltrops...the latter allowing you to escape any fight even without stealthing, and at low levels with high enough condition damage you can kill mobs with it alone.

Thief is one of the most resourceful classes in the game for anything but party healing, and even that can be augmented with a water-field ele/necro.

#14 Loperdos

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

Just thought I'd pop in with my two cents.

Played a thief first exclusively to lvl 80 without so much as really touching any of the other classes (outside of playing a few up to level 8-12 or so lol) and had a complete blast with it, for much of the same reason that Akodo Akimoto mentioned up in post #6, the mobility and stealth just fit my play-style and what I was looking for in a profession, especially given the way combat is structured in this particular game.  I didn't have really any trouble with the PvE content aside from a few places here and there, had a blast in WvW with my various builds, but haven't really gotten into PvP a whole lot (so I wouldn't know what to tell you about it :) ).

After I played on my thief to my hearts content (which I guess isn't really an accurate description because I still play on my thief quite a bit :P ) I decided to start a new toon. Dinked around on a few before I decided on warrior, a P/V/T Hammer warrior just because I like how the hammer feels. Very smashy, very amusing. I cannot even begin to describe how much EASIER all the content I have run so far has been on my warrior vs my thief.  With my thief I was constantly dancing, dodging, ducking and dipping in order to avoid attacks and get position for my various hits.  On my warrior so far have yet to run into anything where I have to dodge nearly as much (obvs still dodge the signature big hits from mobs) and have yet to run into any PvE content that I've even remotely struggled with.  I almost feel a little lazy playing on my warrior compared to my thief, it makes me chuckle.

TL;DR - IMHO, thief is loads of fun, esp if you like mobility and active combat. Warrior is easy-mode for PvE.

Edited by Loperdos, 12 January 2013 - 11:56 PM.


#15 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:35 AM

Thief has higher theoretical DPS but actually maintaining that DPS is pretty hard, since it relies on hitting backstabs, effective initiative management, and simply not dying.  It's also only single-target, while Guardian and Warrior DPS are AOE.  Additionally, both guardians and warriors give better group buffs for further increasing DPS; a group of guardians or warriors can easily max 25 stacks of might permanently, with the guardians providing other defensive buffs (retaliation, protection, regeneration) and the warriors providing fury.  I think 5 warriors or guardians would actually output more damage than 5 thieves, even if those thieves could land constant backstabs (which would be hard, since the mobs would be constantly turning to face one of them).

Thieves are best in low-DPS parties where you are basically providing all of the DPS; I usually run my thief for COF speed clears with pugs, since usually my guardian's group buffs are wasted on people without optimal DPS specs.  Otherwise, though, if I know my party is good, I run guardian.

#16 Gileas898

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:38 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 12 January 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

Thieves, bottom tier in pve? I beg to differ. Completely. I found my thief to be the most resilient with its stealth and evade skills out of the 5 characters I have so far, one of which being warrior. Warrior needs you to spec into toughness at the start to endure the onslaught of damage you'll be taking while trying to melee. Thief allows you to go into power and condition damage and bleed your opponent to death with DB and caltrops...the latter allowing you to escape any fight even without stealthing, and at low levels with high enough condition damage you can kill mobs with it alone.

Thief is one of the most resourceful classes in the game for anything but party healing, and even that can be augmented with a water-field ele/necro.

You lost your credibility when you said warriors need toughness, sorry.

#17 AKGeo

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:41 AM

View PostGileas898, on 13 January 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

You lost your credibility when you said warriors need toughness, sorry.

At early levels, they do. Perhaps instead of focusing on one word, you can take it in context. Warriors starting out need to spec into toughness in order to survive what my thief was able to survive with use of my utility skills. Warriors don't have the large-field AoE cripple/bleed of caltrops, they don't have a spammable evade such as death blossom or pistol whip, and they don't have an area blind like Black Powder. So they're going to get HIT. You need to mitigate the damage from those hits.

#18 Gileas898

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:27 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 13 January 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

At early levels, they do. Perhaps instead of focusing on one word, you can take it in context. Warriors starting out need to spec into toughness in order to survive what my thief was able to survive with use of my utility skills. Warriors don't have the large-field AoE cripple/bleed of caltrops, they don't have a spammable evade such as death blossom or pistol whip, and they don't have an area blind like Black Powder. So they're going to get HIT. You need to mitigate the damage from those hits.

They really don't. But everyone is free to play whatever way they want to.

#19 megatamer

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:46 AM

Top 3 classes in pve are war/guard/mes

War  - pure dmg, banners (ex. the elite can res)
Guard - spam might, stability, wall of reflection
Mes - portals and time warp.

Thief can be good in spvp but you don't need to Lvl up for that

#20 lalangamena

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:27 AM

I have both,
I dont do s/t PVP, so cant comment on that

but for PVE and WWW warrior rocks,   in dungeons, unless the player is exceptional, thief is a waste of spot.  warriors always welcome.

#21 Tony

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:03 AM

Just curious, is WvWvW widely based on gear so that would mean any class can out perform if they are geared well?

#22 Heart Collector

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:48 AM

View PostLoperdos, on 12 January 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Just thought I'd pop in with my two cents.

Played a thief first exclusively to lvl 80 without so much as really touching any of the other classes (outside of playing a few up to level 8-12 or so lol) and had a complete blast with it, for much of the same reason that Akodo Akimoto mentioned up in post #6, the mobility and stealth just fit my play-style and what I was looking for in a profession, especially given the way combat is structured in this particular game.  I didn't have really any trouble with the PvE content aside from a few places here and there, had a blast in WvW with my various builds, but haven't really gotten into PvP a whole lot (so I wouldn't know what to tell you about it :) ).

After I played on my thief to my hearts content (which I guess isn't really an accurate description because I still play on my thief quite a bit :P ) I decided to start a new toon. Dinked around on a few before I decided on warrior, a P/V/T Hammer warrior just because I like how the hammer feels. Very smashy, very amusing. I cannot even begin to describe how much EASIER all the content I have run so far has been on my warrior vs my thief.  With my thief I was constantly dancing, dodging, ducking and dipping in order to avoid attacks and get position for my various hits.  On my warrior so far have yet to run into anything where I have to dodge nearly as much (obvs still dodge the signature big hits from mobs) and have yet to run into any PvE content that I've even remotely struggled with.  I almost feel a little lazy playing on my warrior compared to my thief, it makes me chuckle.

TL;DR - IMHO, thief is loads of fun, esp if you like mobility and active combat. Warrior is easy-mode for PvE.

Pretty much this. They're both really nice classes - and classes I never expected I'd enjoy BTW. You can pull off the craziest stuff as a thief and the action is always intense - but the warrior just feels so much more relaxing at least in PvE!

#23 sanctuaire

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

having both, and even maining a thief, for pve i would say warrior.

if only because you will have a much much easier time getting into endgame
dungeons/ fractals as a warrior. unfortunately, the preference of groups for
heavies in dungeons are very real.  :(



.

#24 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

View PostTony, on 13 January 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Just curious, is WvWvW widely based on gear so that would mean any class can out perform if they are geared well?

Individual setups actually mean next to nothing in WvW.  WvW pretty much revolves entirely around sheer numbers, siege, and use of certain skills (Wall of Reflection, Into the Void, etc.).  This is pretty much just due to the fact that fights involve so many people that the difference in the contribution between a minmaxed, ideally specced character and a naked level 1 character is basically nonexistent.

#25 Lemuux

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:29 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 13 January 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Individual setups actually mean next to nothing in WvW.  WvW pretty much revolves entirely around sheer numbers, siege, and use of certain skills (Wall of Reflection, Into the Void, etc.).  This is pretty much just due to the fact that fights involve so many people that the difference in the contribution between a minmaxed, ideally specced character and a naked level 1 character is basically nonexistent.

untill you find 1 necro, or elementalists that wipes a whole zerg of low levels by himself (so much fun)

#26 Wifflebottom

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:50 AM

I PvP'd with both. Thieves are more effective but more boring imo. You'll be spamming the same skill often and your build will often revolve around spamming that skill. Warriors are decent at everything but you'll have to rely on your teamates to survive unless you roll a support build (and warrior support builds aren't as good as the alternatives) in which case you won't be doing much damage.

In PvE. Warrior wins hands down. The giant health pool and having the strongest armor means you have more room to make mistakes whereas the this the opposite with the lowest health pool and weaker armor. Thieves have access to stealth and group stealth which is useful in skipping parts of dungeons. Warriors can have the highest sustained damage in the game and in a dungeon party you won't have to worry about contributing, you'll always be beneficial. Since thieves typically are killing quickly that doesn't help much in dungeons, typical cycle will be burst>run out of initiative>shortbow autoattack>burst>etc.

WvW. Both are very good in my opinion. Killshot with the warrior is very powerful at the moment and you can expect to instant kill a lot of people. Just be weary of reflect skills. Thieves are very good, stealth is very OP in WvW and most people aren't paying attention to everyone around them so you'll be able to kill a lot.

All in all, if you enjoy killing roll either. You will be doing a lot of it haha. In general thieves are more valued in PvP, warrior more in PvE, and both are great in WvW.

#27 whodini

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:32 AM

Pick a class that you like.  Not what everyone wants. I have leveled a thief to 80 and extremely effective but more one dimensional with weapons.  Started levelling war got him to 32 and wish I started one sooner. I like how every weapons set on war seems to have a purpose.

#28 Elysen

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 13 January 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Thieves are best in low-DPS parties where you are basically providing all of the DPS; I usually run my thief for COF speed clears with pugs, since usually my guardian's group buffs are wasted on people without optimal DPS specs.  Otherwise, though, if I know my party is good, I run guardian.

It's quite funny how most COF PuGs seem to only want Berserker Warriors and Mesmers though isnt it? We have a retarded community.

View Postmegatamer, on 13 January 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Guard - spam might, stability, wall of reflection

It's not really might spamming, more of a consistency. Stability from SYD isn't really a reason people love Guardians - useful, yes - but not a key asset. They're mostly abused for gimmicks such as Wall of Reflection and Spirit Shield.

Bear in mind I'm talking from a player's perspective that has no experience of a Guardian themselves.

View Postsanctuaire, on 13 January 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

unfortunately, the preference of groups for
heavies in dungeons are very real.  :(

But there are no tanks eh Arenanet?

Edited by Xephenon, 14 January 2013 - 05:09 AM.


#29 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:59 AM

View PostXephenon, on 14 January 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

It's quite funny how most COF PuGs seem to only want Berserker Warriors and Mesmers though isnt it? We have a retarded community.

5 berserker warriors or guardians have ludicrously high DPS, like I said before.  It's just that even though pugs advertise for those classes, very few of them are actually in berserker gear.  In general when I gearcheck my parties I always find that a very, very small minority of them are in anything that could be considered DPS gear, much less optimal gear, even when the LFG already says "MUST BE DPS" in caps.

Edited by GuanglaiKangyi, 14 January 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#30 Obscure One

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

IMHO Warrior and Thief place very differently however if you're looking for a good middle ground between both just play a Ranger.

However, if deciding between them, I'd seriously consider the fact that a Thief that doesn't spec for stealth and dagger DPS is a very bad Thief. Warriors on the other hand has a wider variety of optimal builds (GS quickness bursting, rifle/longbow banner build, shout heals, Sword-Sword/Rifle crit spec bleeder, etc.). The point is there is a right and wrong way to play a Thief and if you play it wrong you're not just suboptimal, you're rarely alive. So if you want a bit of build freedom go with a Warrior, otherwise find a youtube video of someone owning with a Thief and copy them verbatim...it's likely one of the 3 or 4 "correct" builds for a Thief, all of which revolve around Stealth and Burst damage.




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