EXACTLY! These kids these days want everything achieved in a day
[/quote]
Exactly.
Same with dungeon armors!
First dungeon armors are to much of a grind, and to hard to get, and now lets complain no dungeon armor holds value!! *genius*
2
71 replies to this topic
#61
Gilles VI
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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:38 PM
[quote name='Nabuko Darayon' timestamp='1359217780' post='2151396']
EXACTLY! These kids these days want everything achieved in a day
[/quote]
Exactly.
Same with dungeon armors!
First dungeon armors are to much of a grind, and to hard to get, and now lets complain no dungeon armor holds value!! *genius*
EXACTLY! These kids these days want everything achieved in a day
[/quote]
Exactly.
Same with dungeon armors!
First dungeon armors are to much of a grind, and to hard to get, and now lets complain no dungeon armor holds value!! *genius*
#62
Reason on Cooldown
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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:44 PM
[quote name='Chalky' timestamp='1359130377' post='2150732']
Although you are correct, being able to acquire a specific precursor for free will reduce the demand for precursors and therefore significantly reduce their price. I think they would have to be at least account bound to prevent the price from sinking so low that the precursor becomes an irrelevant part of legendary acquisition.
[/quote]
Am I missing something here? You want precursors to be account bound so the price doesn't drop to irrelevance? Isn't the price of all account bound items zero, because you can't sell them?
[quote name='Eon Lilu' timestamp='1359169115' post='2151122']
I think they need alot more scavenger hunts in this game, I actually submitted ideas for it back in beta, where we get to go on hunts to create things like mini pets, rare weapons, and other rewards through explorations, puzzles, collecting, and ya now actually playing the game and exploring.
[/quote]
I would LOVE that. Loved the Mad King scavenger hunt, and to a lesser extent the Lost Shores one (you know....when it wasn't bugged). I actually had a whole idea for looting that would sort of turn it into a game long scavenger hunt.........I really should make a post about it one of the days.........
Although you are correct, being able to acquire a specific precursor for free will reduce the demand for precursors and therefore significantly reduce their price. I think they would have to be at least account bound to prevent the price from sinking so low that the precursor becomes an irrelevant part of legendary acquisition.
[/quote]
Am I missing something here? You want precursors to be account bound so the price doesn't drop to irrelevance? Isn't the price of all account bound items zero, because you can't sell them?
[quote name='Eon Lilu' timestamp='1359169115' post='2151122']
I think they need alot more scavenger hunts in this game, I actually submitted ideas for it back in beta, where we get to go on hunts to create things like mini pets, rare weapons, and other rewards through explorations, puzzles, collecting, and ya now actually playing the game and exploring.
[/quote]
I would LOVE that. Loved the Mad King scavenger hunt, and to a lesser extent the Lost Shores one (you know....when it wasn't bugged). I actually had a whole idea for looting that would sort of turn it into a game long scavenger hunt.........I really should make a post about it one of the days.........
#63
Verene
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:38 AM
[quote name='Gilles VI' timestamp='1359217424' post='2151394']
How not?
When the game first came out you needed a full team to survive in FoW/UW, runs were much slower than now and there were no chests with guaranteed drops.
I think if you got 2 drops (ecto or shard) in a run we were very happy, and a run took 1-2h with pugs.
So getting obby took lots of time too.
Over time they nerfed it too right, but who knows they'll do the same with the current legendaries.
[/quote]
You had to farm two areas that took a while with pugs but did not take much time with a coordinated group. Obby armor required ~120 ecto and obby if I remember correctly. The common mats aren't really worth worrying about.
Whereas a legendary requires world completion, farming a dungeon, farming WvW, farming for a full stack of each T6 mat, farming for ecto, farming karma...there is so, so, so much more work that goes into a legendary than when into getting Obby armor.
How not?
When the game first came out you needed a full team to survive in FoW/UW, runs were much slower than now and there were no chests with guaranteed drops.
I think if you got 2 drops (ecto or shard) in a run we were very happy, and a run took 1-2h with pugs.
So getting obby took lots of time too.
Over time they nerfed it too right, but who knows they'll do the same with the current legendaries.
[/quote]
You had to farm two areas that took a while with pugs but did not take much time with a coordinated group. Obby armor required ~120 ecto and obby if I remember correctly. The common mats aren't really worth worrying about.
Whereas a legendary requires world completion, farming a dungeon, farming WvW, farming for a full stack of each T6 mat, farming for ecto, farming karma...there is so, so, so much more work that goes into a legendary than when into getting Obby armor.
#64
Chalky
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:16 AM
[quote name='Reason on Cooldown' timestamp='1359222262' post='2151438']
Am I missing something here? You want precursors to be account bound so the price doesn't drop to irrelevance? Isn't the price of all account bound items zero, because you can't sell them?
[/quote]
I mean precursors acquired via the scavenger hunt should be account bound, not all precursors acquired via any means. Does that make more sense? Sorry to be confusing. Items are already able to have a variable "soulbound" status which means that some items become soulbound after being equipped so it should be trivial for items gained via this method to have this switch enabled by default, but not if you find it via other methods.
To explain further what I mean about the price dropping too much if everyone can sell them via the scavenger hunt - if this was possible, then everyone would do the hunt on every single character and sell it on the trading post. This would basically guarantee that there were more precursors for sale than people actually want which would cause the prices to crash completely.
Am I missing something here? You want precursors to be account bound so the price doesn't drop to irrelevance? Isn't the price of all account bound items zero, because you can't sell them?
[/quote]
I mean precursors acquired via the scavenger hunt should be account bound, not all precursors acquired via any means. Does that make more sense? Sorry to be confusing. Items are already able to have a variable "soulbound" status which means that some items become soulbound after being equipped so it should be trivial for items gained via this method to have this switch enabled by default, but not if you find it via other methods.
To explain further what I mean about the price dropping too much if everyone can sell them via the scavenger hunt - if this was possible, then everyone would do the hunt on every single character and sell it on the trading post. This would basically guarantee that there were more precursors for sale than people actually want which would cause the prices to crash completely.
Do you need help or just want to chat about moderation? Drop me a PM.
#65
jari
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:30 AM
[quote name='Chalky' timestamp='1359249400' post='2151686']
I mean precursors acquired via the scavenger hunt should be account bound, not all precursors acquired via any means. Does that make more sense? Sorry to be confusing. Items are already able to have a variable "soulbound" status which means that some items become soulbound after being equipped so it should be trivial for items gained via this method to have this switch enabled by default, but not if you find it via other methods.
To explain further what I mean about the price dropping too much if everyone can sell them via the scavenger hunt - if this was possible, then everyone would do the hunt on every single character and sell it on the trading post. This would basically guarantee that there were more precursors for sale than people actually want which would cause the prices to crash completely.
[/quote]
and if so everybody can sell it, the precursor prices would drop completely and the t6 materials, lodestones, ectos etc will raise in price so high that you will get the same problem but this time with a lot more materials and not just a couple weapon skins.
I mean precursors acquired via the scavenger hunt should be account bound, not all precursors acquired via any means. Does that make more sense? Sorry to be confusing. Items are already able to have a variable "soulbound" status which means that some items become soulbound after being equipped so it should be trivial for items gained via this method to have this switch enabled by default, but not if you find it via other methods.
To explain further what I mean about the price dropping too much if everyone can sell them via the scavenger hunt - if this was possible, then everyone would do the hunt on every single character and sell it on the trading post. This would basically guarantee that there were more precursors for sale than people actually want which would cause the prices to crash completely.
[/quote]
and if so everybody can sell it, the precursor prices would drop completely and the t6 materials, lodestones, ectos etc will raise in price so high that you will get the same problem but this time with a lot more materials and not just a couple weapon skins.
#66
Chalky
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:02 AM
[quote name='jari' timestamp='1359250249' post='2151695']
and if so everybody can sell it, the precursor prices would drop completely and the t6 materials, lodestones, ectos etc will raise in price so high that you will get the same problem but this time with a lot more materials and not just a couple weapon skins.
[/quote]
I disagree, the price of t6 mats is moderated by the ability for people to farm them and mystic forge recipes for lesser materials. If prices rise to the point where it becomes profitable to convert t5 to t6, people will do that and drive the price down again. If t5 mat prices rise to the point where it's profitable to do t4 to t5, people will do that and keep the price low. If these tiers become significantly more valuable, people will increase their intentional farming of them which will keep prices low.
That's not to say that lots more people making legendaries won't drive material prices up, this is totally the case, but the increase in price will not match the price of the precursors.
At the moment, the finite number of precursors is a bottleneck. If there are 3 "The Legends" for sale in the entire world, there's nothing you can do besides pay their price or gamble for the rest of eternity throwing rares into the forge. There is no control on that price.
and if so everybody can sell it, the precursor prices would drop completely and the t6 materials, lodestones, ectos etc will raise in price so high that you will get the same problem but this time with a lot more materials and not just a couple weapon skins.
[/quote]
I disagree, the price of t6 mats is moderated by the ability for people to farm them and mystic forge recipes for lesser materials. If prices rise to the point where it becomes profitable to convert t5 to t6, people will do that and drive the price down again. If t5 mat prices rise to the point where it's profitable to do t4 to t5, people will do that and keep the price low. If these tiers become significantly more valuable, people will increase their intentional farming of them which will keep prices low.
That's not to say that lots more people making legendaries won't drive material prices up, this is totally the case, but the increase in price will not match the price of the precursors.
At the moment, the finite number of precursors is a bottleneck. If there are 3 "The Legends" for sale in the entire world, there's nothing you can do besides pay their price or gamble for the rest of eternity throwing rares into the forge. There is no control on that price.
Do you need help or just want to chat about moderation? Drop me a PM.
#67
Gilles VI
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:19 AM
[quote name='Verene' timestamp='1359247088' post='2151672']
You had to farm two areas that took a while with pugs but did not take much time with a coordinated group. Obby armor required ~120 ecto and obby if I remember correctly. The common mats aren't really worth worrying about.
Whereas a legendary requires world completion, farming a dungeon, farming WvW, farming for a full stack of each T6 mat, farming for ecto, farming karma...there is so, so, so much more work that goes into a legendary than when into getting Obby armor.
[/quote]
Again you underestimate how hard it was at launch..
A group failing in UW really wasn't a rare thing, it's more or less the same as current Arah runs in GW2, lots and lots of pugs just can't do it.
And even if you have a good group, it'll still take quite a while to do 160 runs in Arah (1,5 per run, 120 needed, 2 areas = FoW/UW)
You had to farm two areas that took a while with pugs but did not take much time with a coordinated group. Obby armor required ~120 ecto and obby if I remember correctly. The common mats aren't really worth worrying about.
Whereas a legendary requires world completion, farming a dungeon, farming WvW, farming for a full stack of each T6 mat, farming for ecto, farming karma...there is so, so, so much more work that goes into a legendary than when into getting Obby armor.
[/quote]
Again you underestimate how hard it was at launch..
A group failing in UW really wasn't a rare thing, it's more or less the same as current Arah runs in GW2, lots and lots of pugs just can't do it.
And even if you have a good group, it'll still take quite a while to do 160 runs in Arah (1,5 per run, 120 needed, 2 areas = FoW/UW)
#68
Verene
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:43 PM
And that's still not even close to how much work is required for a Legendary. I've done one. I'm doing the other now.
#69
Reason on Cooldown
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:21 PM
[quote name='Chalky' timestamp='1359249400' post='2151686']
I mean precursors acquired via the scavenger hunt should be account bound, not all precursors acquired via any means. Does that make more sense? Sorry to be confusing. Items are already able to have a variable "soulbound" status which means that some items become soulbound after being equipped so it should be trivial for items gained via this method to have this switch enabled by default, but not if you find it via other methods.
To explain further what I mean about the price dropping too much if everyone can sell them via the scavenger hunt - if this was possible, then everyone would do the hunt on every single character and sell it on the trading post. This would basically guarantee that there were more precursors for sale than people actually want which would cause the prices to crash completely.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. It all depends on how ANet implemented it. Those variable soulbound items items are 'soulbound on equip' I believe. Implementing 'account bound depending on the means of acquisition' might be far more difficult. But again, it depends on how it was implemented. In programming, sometimes implementing something that seems simple from the outside might be far more complicated if it was implemented without that flexibility in mind.
[quote name='Chalky' timestamp='1359284528' post='2151851']
At the moment, the finite number of precursors is a bottleneck. If there are 3 "The Legends" for sale in the entire world, there's nothing you can do besides pay their price or gamble for the rest of eternity throwing rares into the forge. There is no control on that price.
[/quote]
Or you can farm the dragon and temple chests. Granted it's a long shot RNG, but it is another means, and costs nothing but time. However even if there are 1000 precursors on the TP, you have to just pay the price. It's just likely that price will be much lower. But that's just supply and demand.
Although if/when ANet implements a scavenger hunt for precursors, I would assume they would remove other means for obtaining them (aside from ones already on the TP). Imagine the gripes if people spend what I can only assume would be the considerable time to run the precursor hunt, only to have some schlub get a jackpot drop from a chest for no effort.
I mean precursors acquired via the scavenger hunt should be account bound, not all precursors acquired via any means. Does that make more sense? Sorry to be confusing. Items are already able to have a variable "soulbound" status which means that some items become soulbound after being equipped so it should be trivial for items gained via this method to have this switch enabled by default, but not if you find it via other methods.
To explain further what I mean about the price dropping too much if everyone can sell them via the scavenger hunt - if this was possible, then everyone would do the hunt on every single character and sell it on the trading post. This would basically guarantee that there were more precursors for sale than people actually want which would cause the prices to crash completely.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. It all depends on how ANet implemented it. Those variable soulbound items items are 'soulbound on equip' I believe. Implementing 'account bound depending on the means of acquisition' might be far more difficult. But again, it depends on how it was implemented. In programming, sometimes implementing something that seems simple from the outside might be far more complicated if it was implemented without that flexibility in mind.
[quote name='Chalky' timestamp='1359284528' post='2151851']
At the moment, the finite number of precursors is a bottleneck. If there are 3 "The Legends" for sale in the entire world, there's nothing you can do besides pay their price or gamble for the rest of eternity throwing rares into the forge. There is no control on that price.
[/quote]
Or you can farm the dragon and temple chests. Granted it's a long shot RNG, but it is another means, and costs nothing but time. However even if there are 1000 precursors on the TP, you have to just pay the price. It's just likely that price will be much lower. But that's just supply and demand.
Although if/when ANet implements a scavenger hunt for precursors, I would assume they would remove other means for obtaining them (aside from ones already on the TP). Imagine the gripes if people spend what I can only assume would be the considerable time to run the precursor hunt, only to have some schlub get a jackpot drop from a chest for no effort.
#70
Chalky
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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:03 PM
[quote name='Reason on Cooldown' timestamp='1359307265' post='2152013']
Or you can farm the dragon and temple chests. Granted it's a long shot RNG, but it is another means, and costs nothing but time. However even if there are 1000 precursors on the TP, you have to just pay the price. It's just likely that price will be much lower. But that's just supply and demand.
Although if/when ANet implements a scavenger hunt for precursors, I would assume they would remove other means for obtaining them (aside from ones already on the TP). Imagine the gripes if people spend what I can only assume would be the considerable time to run the precursor hunt, only to have some schlub get a jackpot drop from a chest for no effort.
[/quote]
I'm not sure what the first part here is trying to say - the fact that you can also farm random drops rather than getting random drops from the forge seems to be needlessly splitting hairs.
I doubt that anet will remove other sources of precursors because of the scavenger hunt. There are big parts of the economy and in game activity being driven by the current sources - they want to make them easier to obtain, not stamp out this activity. The jackpot aspect is no more "fair" at the moment and anet have never pointed at it as a reason to change the system.
Or you can farm the dragon and temple chests. Granted it's a long shot RNG, but it is another means, and costs nothing but time. However even if there are 1000 precursors on the TP, you have to just pay the price. It's just likely that price will be much lower. But that's just supply and demand.
Although if/when ANet implements a scavenger hunt for precursors, I would assume they would remove other means for obtaining them (aside from ones already on the TP). Imagine the gripes if people spend what I can only assume would be the considerable time to run the precursor hunt, only to have some schlub get a jackpot drop from a chest for no effort.
[/quote]
I'm not sure what the first part here is trying to say - the fact that you can also farm random drops rather than getting random drops from the forge seems to be needlessly splitting hairs.
I doubt that anet will remove other sources of precursors because of the scavenger hunt. There are big parts of the economy and in game activity being driven by the current sources - they want to make them easier to obtain, not stamp out this activity. The jackpot aspect is no more "fair" at the moment and anet have never pointed at it as a reason to change the system.
Do you need help or just want to chat about moderation? Drop me a PM.
#71
Just Horus
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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:09 PM
[quote name='Gilles VI' timestamp='1359285562' post='2151855']
Again you underestimate how hard it was at launch..
A group failing in UW really wasn't a rare thing, it's more or less the same as current Arah runs in GW2, lots and lots of pugs just can't do it.
And even if you have a good group, it'll still take quite a while to do 160 runs in Arah (1,5 per run, 120 needed, 2 areas = FoW/UW)
[/quote]
Must have been playing a different game than I. Right at launch it might have been difficult to complete UW, which isn't surprising as everyone was still getting their bearings on the game. But when people started learning how to actually efficiently farm underworld, Obsi armor took no where near as long as legendaries. The pinnacle of this was the protective bond monks that could farm UW so easily you had hordes of bot farmers using this to get ectos (and this was WAAAAYYYYY before even Factions was released). Even after that skill was nerfed and the introduction of Dying Nightmares, there were a plethora of builds for smite runs. Honestly, if you were getting 1-2 ectos for a full UW run then you must have had the worst luck I've ever seen as I averaged 1-2 ectos per smite run and that took a fraction of the time as a full run.
What does this have to do with legendaries? I have no clue.
Again you underestimate how hard it was at launch..
A group failing in UW really wasn't a rare thing, it's more or less the same as current Arah runs in GW2, lots and lots of pugs just can't do it.
And even if you have a good group, it'll still take quite a while to do 160 runs in Arah (1,5 per run, 120 needed, 2 areas = FoW/UW)
[/quote]
Must have been playing a different game than I. Right at launch it might have been difficult to complete UW, which isn't surprising as everyone was still getting their bearings on the game. But when people started learning how to actually efficiently farm underworld, Obsi armor took no where near as long as legendaries. The pinnacle of this was the protective bond monks that could farm UW so easily you had hordes of bot farmers using this to get ectos (and this was WAAAAYYYYY before even Factions was released). Even after that skill was nerfed and the introduction of Dying Nightmares, there were a plethora of builds for smite runs. Honestly, if you were getting 1-2 ectos for a full UW run then you must have had the worst luck I've ever seen as I averaged 1-2 ectos per smite run and that took a fraction of the time as a full run.
What does this have to do with legendaries? I have no clue.
#72
MisterB
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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:23 PM
[quote name='Horus Moonlight' timestamp='1359400154' post='2152624']What does this have to do with legendaries? I have no clue.
[/quote]
Some people are trying to claim that the effort required to obtain a legendary in GW2 is equivalent to obsidian armor in GW1 at launch.
[/quote]
Some people are trying to claim that the effort required to obtain a legendary in GW2 is equivalent to obsidian armor in GW1 at launch.
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