46 replies to this topic

[Kable]

So with the fractals came some changes I was not totally expecting. The introduction of items that could not be gotten any other way. They have special stats and also a resist that is unique. This lead me to start thinking about all the unique items dropped in other games.

Everquest 1 had unique items dropping from bosses and some you could craft using components from all over the land including encounters and bosses.

Everquest 2 had Fabled items and continued some of the tradition of EQ1. There are many other games where unique items drop from encounters or bosses.

My question is do you think GW2 feels a little lacking due to not having actual unique items dropping that have special properties that no other items have?

One small example of eq1 special item  Polished Granite Tomahawk proc effect berserker strength. There are obviously countless items I could name. Some Proc and others were clickable and still others had permanent effect.

Seems this might be fun to introduce into Guildwars 2 or do you think it would ruin the fundamental design?

[Captain Bulldozer]

I think the addition of such things would be most welcome.  Currently, most of the unique weapons/armor that can be obtained in game comes from the mystic toilet.  Even in GW1, there were unique (and highly desired) skins that were only obtainable from certain locations as well as special max weapons that dropped from certain bosses.  Every boss in GW1 had a unique name as well, so the weapons were generally named after the boss or other lore persona (i.e. Mallyx's Gluttony, etc.) .  As it stands now, even high level foes in the open world are non-entities, which takes away a lot of the flavor from a lore perspective... and who would want "Random troll champion's club of +100000000 HP?  Well, I suppose if it gave that much extra health we'd all want it, but I'm sure you get my point.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Yes. I one hundred percent agree with you. Problem is that the champions and other group events that no one ever does don't have much of a reward. If they make the reward much greater it'll ruin the economy, so that's a risky thing to do. But if you add a completely unique item, the economy will only change according to that item alone. With GW2's skin system, you wouldn't even have to make it some super overpowered weapon. If it has a completely unique skin, people would still want to get it.

Sadly, this is something that Arenanet hasn't realized yet, which is strange seeing as unique weapons were a pretty huge deal in GW1.

[Kurosov]

I'd have loved to have seen more of a disconnect between stats and skins.

Allow max stats exotics to be bought cheaply from a trader while allowing the skins to be the items of value acquired both from dungeon tokens and drops from chests/bosses rather than everything from the MF

[Alex Dimitri]

Problem with most of the foe`s in GW2 is that they barely drop anything useful (mats, items, gold.....) everything is so...so cheap !
Economy can`t be broken by more unique items.....economy is already broken to pieces.....just certain people get profit from it and Anet is keeping quiet because everyone else will fall to their cash shop exchange wagon sooner or later when people get wish to create something better (fancier) !

Shame really since graphic department of GW2 is BY FAR BEST PART of the game, everything else sucks more or less, story, WvW, sPvP, dungeons.....
Instead of capitalizing on SINGLE great thing they have (introducing new skins, weapons,armor....what not)....the only thing we got so far, except fixes for bugs (adding new ones) was that new map with Karka`s which any sane person will call it`s rightful name FAIL !

I`m waiting with anticipation this "BIG" february patch, maybe just maybe.....someone will come to their senses !!!

[Sheepski]

Captain Bulldozer, on 12 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

I think the addition of such things would be most welcome.  Currently, most of the unique weapons/armor that can be obtained in game comes from the mystic toilet.  Even in GW1, there were unique (and highly desired) skins that were only obtainable from certain locations as well as special max weapons that dropped from certain bosses.  Every boss in GW1 had a unique name as well, so the weapons were generally named after the boss or other lore persona (i.e. Mallyx's Gluttony, etc.) .  As it stands now, even high level foes in the open world are non-entities, which takes away a lot of the flavor from a lore perspective... and who would want "Random troll champion's club of +100000000 HP?  Well, I suppose if it gave that much extra health we'd all want it, but I'm sure you get my point.

Your post made me smile

[Kable]

Kurosov, on 12 January 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

I'd have loved to have seen more of a disconnect between stats and skins.

Allow max stats exotics to be bought cheaply from a trader while allowing the skins to be the items of value acquired both from dungeon tokens and drops from chests/bosses rather than everything from the MF

This is a similar form to what I was talking about. Make killing a particular boss in a dungeon or major encounter give something that is unique to that boss only. There should be a variable in the quality of the items dropped though. Possibly have a statistical chance of a unique crafting item drop 80%,  unique town outfit that converts you into a mini version of the boss drop 30%, and some crazy weapon skin with unique name drop 8% of the time. This is of course not adding anything game breaking to the table. My initial idea was possibly more game breaking but once I saw the stuff from Fractals it started seeming not as game breaking.

[kalendraf]

Alex Dimitri, on 12 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Shame really since graphic department of GW2 is BY FAR BEST PART of the game

Maybe I missed the sarcasm quote, but the graphics in GW2 are far from it's best aspect.  The armors are bland and sorely lacking in diversity, unless you like trenchcoats and tents below the waist.  Even on the absolute highest graphics settings, the textures for many of the characters, enemies and terrain are sorely lacking. On top of that, there are a major problems with culling in WvW as well as in PvE maps or cities during events.  I wouldn't put graphics anywhere near the list of "BEST PART of the game", but I would definitely consider putting it into the list of things that need the most improvement, especially the armor skin variety.

[Featherman]

I like this idea and I think it'd actually reinforce the design by adding incentive and context to content.

[Mystika]

Most of the Champions in this game give junk rewards and some do not give anything at all, except for the exp.,karma, etc. They are a pain to do with very little reward. It would be great if A-net made it more worthwhile to fight them.

[ayoblame]

Unfortunately, you're get 100 threads crying about RNG and that it's not fair that person A can get it and person B can't. It's be fantastic tbh, I was just thinking about how most of the named items are just another rare/exotic.

[phabby]

I agree we need  some serous  great boss drops to keep us pver's interested, So far someone has found on wiki  1 very unique drop from a chest somewhere in orr, so the hunt is on to find the very rare and elusive staff , so now alot of pver's have at  least one thing to chase. killing any vet, champ in gw2 is just a pain in the rear end and a whole waste of time cause they just never never drop anything.

​ anets decision to drop there loot system from gw1 is still unbelievable, when they had a fantastic world loot system that  kept everyone going strong and interested for 7 years why change it. The best part of killing a bosss is to try and get  that named item.The other thing I missssssss so bad is the chests,I loved farming chests in gw1 it was fun to  seee what you got, and there is no way i am paying for bl keys because they are just a joke and really they need to increase the drop rate of keys 100% to get ppl interested in them.

[Millimidget]

Sword Hammer Axe, on 12 January 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

If they make the reward much greater it'll ruin the economy, so that's a risky thing to do.

How so? The economy is already in shambles.

They'll have to come up with a radical solution to make low level content worthwhile for higher level players to engage in. They'll probably need to normalize all rewards based on level, or something. The current system with large loot level ranges and reduced karma rewards make low level content unappealing; even if the loot was brought in-line, players would still favor Orr for the extra karma, so it's something of a package deal.

Off-topic, but in my post-GW2 wanderings, I'm rediscovering that the best in-game economy is the twink economy; unfortunately, GW2 doesn't support twinking, and if anything actively undermines it, to the point where I don't think this game could ever generate a twink economy. That's really unfortunate, because it's the economic model which best facilitates new players coming to the game, and is great for keeping the population healthy at the same time it fosters a healthy economy.

Edited by Millimidget, 12 January 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[MigoShieldwalker]

I wouldn't even mind if normal drops in low to mid level open world areas were just ok, or rewards were applicable to the character. Some blue for different profession and tons of porous bones and the like is really, really getting old for this simple casual explorer. I don't see how they would even hang on to that (small/minority?) population. I hear the higher level areas don't improve with drops either...oh well.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

Millimidget, on 12 January 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

How so? The economy is already in shambles.

They'll have to come up with a radical solution to make low level content worthwhile for higher level players to engage in. They'll probably need to normalize all rewards based on level, or something. The current system with large loot level ranges and reduced karma rewards make low level content unappealing; even if the loot was brought in-line, players would still favor Orr for the extra karma, so it's something of a package deal.

Off-topic, but in my post-GW2 wanderings, I'm rediscovering that the best in-game economy is the twink economy; unfortunately, GW2 doesn't support twinking, and if anything actively undermines it, to the point where I don't think this game could ever generate a twink economy. That's really unfortunate, because it's the economic model which best facilitates new players coming to the game, and is great for keeping the population healthy at the same time it fosters a healthy economy.

Ruin it further, then

Problem is that if they up the rewards for some content too much, then players will lose interest in other content, and if they up it too little, the interest won't increase at all. That's why it's risky. That's why a completely unique reward will up the interest without interest for other content dropping, seeing as these two rewards are completely different.

[AKGeo]

The only reason anyone should have a reason to go into low level areas is to map it, or to help friends/guildies with a hard quest. Otherwise you're just going to be sitting there facerolling the mobs and filling up on low level loot. As it is, rares and dyes drop often enough and with easy enough enemies that botters are drawn there to farm exactly those things. I often see bots in the grub cave and bandit nook outside the ranch farming the fast-respawning easily-killed enemies. I myself take my thief (non-botted) and camp that bandit spot for the DE, getting as many people to do the event as possible while I'm killing the constant large waves of bandits from the opening. I get tons of T1 mats, dyes, the occasional rare drop. not max, but high enough for ectos and to put into the forge if I get the right type. Now for a toon with heavier armor and aoe (cough Guardian staff cough) you can just stand there and spam skill 1 for hours and not have any issues.


The point is that low level areas are for low level players. If you make rewards in low level areas better, you run the risk of botters moving in full-time. If you're meaning just for unique drops from the low level champs...that's also a mistake, because even the champs are a walk in the park for a few level 80s. And are those unique items going to be your level, or the area level? If they'll be your level, why should low levels even try?

Though I'd like to see better drops from those queensdale champs...tired of helping out the newbies and getting a rainbow 5-slot bag collection.

Edited by AKGeo, 12 January 2013 - 11:05 PM.

[FoxBat]

"Radical" solution would be to let you get ascended mats from normal gameplay, and maybe introducing some new slots like earrings. They did call the fotm situation a mistake after all.

Likely it's going to be implemented with daily or once-of limits. Maybe you can reset map completion for an area once per month for example, and get good completion rewards.

[Gileas898]

Part of the problem is that no enemies in the open world feels unique, and there is absolutely no lore regarding them.

"Veteran Wolf". It's obviously a fearsome beast, and the locals in the area have probably had run-ins with it, and given it a name. Why can't there be some gossip / warning signs that inform players about what awaits them out there. I think it's this kind of lore that is missing from GW1, but that a lot of other games does really well. Unless they get rid of the "Veteran", "Legendary" names etc the world will never feel interesting unfortunately.

I mean, just look at WoW. Hogger, a fricking minor quest mob in a starting area, became one of the most memorable characters in the history of MMO's, inspiring fear in anyone who ever set foot in the Alliance.

Now picture him being named "Veteran Gnoll" instead.

Edited by Gileas898, 13 January 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Lucas Ashrock]

An other thread where people realized how pathetic the design of this game is, this time about drops. Funny isn't it , there is one single thing of this junk who worth to be saved huh
Sadly, the OP shooted big names where lore and sense of chase something was well worthy for the sake of it, digging a way more big universe of difference between design and lore of a great game and well..this.
Or gw1 too, a superb game where chase every single unique weapon i got was an incredible, long adventure. Here the only incredible thing i can chase is be so dumb to grind like a bot for a legendary, if i want a named cool thing coming from nowhere, without a spit , neither a spit of lore at all

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 13 January 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[OneMoreLevel]

AKGeo, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

The only reason anyone should have a reason to go into low level areas is to map it, or to help friends/guildies with a hard quest. Otherwise you're just going to be sitting there facerolling the mobs and filling up on low level loot. As it is, rares and dyes drop often enough and with easy enough enemies that botters are drawn there to farm exactly those things. I often see bots in the grub cave and bandit nook outside the ranch farming the fast-respawning easily-killed enemies. I myself take my thief (non-botted) and camp that bandit spot for the DE, getting as many people to do the event as possible while I'm killing the constant large waves of bandits from the opening. I get tons of T1 mats, dyes, the occasional rare drop. not max, but high enough for ectos and to put into the forge if I get the right type. Now for a toon with heavier armor and aoe (cough Guardian staff cough) you can just stand there and spam skill 1 for hours and not have any issues.


The point is that low level areas are for low level players. If you make rewards in low level areas better, you run the risk of botters moving in full-time. If you're meaning just for unique drops from the low level champs...that's also a mistake, because even the champs are a walk in the park for a few level 80s. And are those unique items going to be your level, or the area level? If they'll be your level, why should low levels even try?

Though I'd like to see better drops from those queensdale champs...tired of helping out the newbies and getting a rainbow 5-slot bag collection.

Seems like it would be annoying, but not as annoying as being 1 of 5 players in a zone. (in the mid level zones) I started playing back during Christmas and Queensdale was pretty populated, Kessex hills was okay, after that it was off and on. The majority of mid level zones were dead most of the time.

[rentauri]

Would be nice if those Unique Mystic Forge items dropped off champions (or even had a small chance of dropping off a mob that carries it, like Jormag's Breath with the Sons of Svanir) that way you could either attempt to go after the Champion(s)/Mob(s) or the recipe (or both if the target drops the needed materials).

In the current system I would prefer if certain Champions dropped a lot of Crafting material that is used for specific recipes that way you could target specific Champions for the item you wanted to make in the forge. Turn it into a crafting material version of tokens, kill certain high powered creatures for a number of items.

[Trei]

AKGeo, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Spoiler

The only reason anyone should have a reason to go into low level areas is to map it, or to help friends/guildies with a hard quest. Otherwise you're just going to be sitting there facerolling the mobs and filling up on low level loot. As it is, rares and dyes drop often enough and with easy enough enemies that botters are drawn there to farm exactly those things. I often see bots in the grub cave and bandit nook outside the ranch farming the fast-respawning easily-killed enemies. I myself take my thief (non-botted) and camp that bandit spot for the DE, getting as many people to do the event as possible while I'm killing the constant large waves of bandits from the opening. I get tons of T1 mats, dyes, the occasional rare drop. not max, but high enough for ectos and to put into the forge if I get the right type. Now for a toon with heavier armor and aoe (cough Guardian staff cough) you can just stand there and spam skill 1 for hours and not have any issues.

The point is that low level areas are for low level players. If you make rewards in low level areas better, you run the risk of botters moving in full-time. If you're meaning just for unique drops from the low level champs...that's also a mistake, because even the champs are a walk in the park for a few level 80s. And are those unique items going to be your level, or the area level? If they'll be your level, why should low levels even try?....

I have to disagree somewhat.

One of the main motivations for the downscaling mechanic is precisely to make such "low" lvl areas remain relevant even if one has grossly out lvled them.

A player should thus find his game world growing bigger as he progresses instead of smaller like in other games, where a high lvl player has his relevant play area reduced to the few designated ones at the top.

If they have to make downscaling reduce player power more, so be it.
But I would like to see the entire world of Tyria as virtually one big lvl 80 zone, to a lvl 80 player.

I was in fact expecting that.

[Featherman]

Trei, on 14 January 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

I have to disagree somewhat.

One of the main motivations for the downscaling mechanic is precisely to make such "low" lvl areas remain relevant even if one has grossly out lvled them.

A player should thus find his game world growing bigger as he progresses instead of smaller like in other games, where a high lvl player has his relevant play area reduced to the few designated ones at the top.

If they have to make downscaling reduce player power more, so be it.
But I would like to see the entire world of Tyria as virtually one big lvl 80 zone, to a lvl 80 player.

I was in fact expecting that.

The scaling is definitely flawed and works against this design intent. As a maxed out level 80 elementalist (generally low damage class and spec) the combat experience in low level areas is too easy and unengaging. The only relevance these areas hold for me at the moment is exploration completion. I think if they add unique items to bosses challenging to maxed out players, but not impossible for level-appropriate players then these areas might have that much more relevance. That or they could tune down state advantages between gear tiers and traits. Either way I think ANet should find a way to players into older maps since they're potential content.

Edited by Featherman, 14 January 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[LavaSquid]

I have seen some special exotic recipe (jeweler) from dungeons which you can craft and sell them at 3g++ on TP. I have only found an exotic back item (explorer stats) from the last boss in AC. That's all :/

Mostly all those good looking exotic weapons skins are from RNG mystic forge, might as well save the gold and buy from TP. :x

[Naskapi]

http://wiki.guildwar...m/wiki/Wisteria

http://wiki.guildwar...wiki/Final_Rest

[sevalaricgirl]

Gileas898, on 13 January 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Part of the problem is that no enemies in the open world feels unique, and there is absolutely no lore regarding them.

"Veteran Wolf". It's obviously a fearsome beast, and the locals in the area have probably had run-ins with it, and given it a name. Why can't there be some gossip / warning signs that inform players about what awaits them out there. I think it's this kind of lore that is missing from GW1, but that a lot of other games does really well. Unless they get rid of the "Veteran", "Legendary" names etc the world will never feel interesting unfortunately.

Honestly, because the ANet team does not have good writers on it.  Their script writers are really bad.  Too many cliches and not enough substance, no imagination.

[sevalaricgirl]

Lucas Ashrock, on 13 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

An other thread where people realized how pathetic the design of this game is, this time about drops. Funny isn't it , there is one single thing of this junk who worth to be saved huh
Sadly, the OP shooted big names where lore and sense of chase something was well worthy for the sake of it, digging a way more big universe of difference between design and lore of a great game and well..this.
Or gw1 too, a superb game where chase every single unique weapon i got was an incredible, long adventure. Here the only incredible thing i can chase is be so dumb to grind like a bot for a legendary, if i want a named cool thing coming from nowhere, without a spit , neither a spit of lore at all

then don't play it.  You offer nothing of constructive criticism to add to the conversation and I haven't seen any post of your that does.

[RandolfRa]

Alex Dimitri, on 12 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Shame really since graphic department of GW2 is BY FAR BEST PART of the game, everything else sucks more or less, story, WvW, sPvP, dungeons.....

This is what I've been saying for long. If only Anet's game desingers were of the same quality as their artists... It's indeed a shame how much beatiful art goes to waste because of incompetent designers.

Edited by RandolfRa, 14 January 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[AKGeo]

Lucas Ashrock, on 13 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

An other thread where people realized how pathetic the design of this game is, this time about drops. Funny isn't it , there is one single thing of this junk who worth to be saved huh
Sadly, the OP shooted big names where lore and sense of chase something was well worthy for the sake of it, digging a way more big universe of difference between design and lore of a great game and well..this.
Or gw1 too, a superb game where chase every single unique weapon i got was an incredible, long adventure. Here the only incredible thing i can chase is be so dumb to grind like a bot for a legendary, if i want a named cool thing coming from nowhere, without a spit , neither a spit of lore at all

I've noticed something about you...your english is getting worse every time you post. You're getting lazy. I know you have the ability to use much better english grammar, so why don't you?

This is getting ridiculous.

[Fenice_86]

FFs it could be so easy:

• Increase Black Lion Keys drop rate by 100%
  
• Increase Dyes drop rate by 20%
  
• Reduce by 50% the number of Champions in the world
  
• Make ALL Champions & Legendaries monsters drop 1 Guaranteed lvl 80 rare item (reference to monster's ranks: http://wiki.guildwar...m/wiki/NPC_rank
  
• Make ALL Epic monsters (actually only the 3 Dragons) drop 1 Guaranteed lvl 80 rare item OR 10% chance to drop an Exotic item OR <1% chance to drop a named set item with unique skin
  
• Make ALL end-dungeon chests drop 1 Guaranteed rare item (based on reccomended explorable player's lvl)
  
• Make 1 Fine Transmutation Stone a Guaranteed reward from monthly event
  
• Export skins of Armor and Weapons from GW1, they were so much better imho!

That's it for me, more or less