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The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..


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#121 Beowulf

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

Do I see "GW2 ENDGAME" in the title? wait a sec....there's no endgame, what is this about? =D

#122 jthamind

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

to me, end game is kind of like saying "replay value," because that's where the replay value of MMOs tends to come from. i mean, if you find replay value from leveling characters in low zones and whatnot, more power to you, but i would assume most people want that replay value once they hit max level.

but when referring to GW2, as it's been said this game isn't designed around a traditional end game, but people are still so used to using that word. when they say end game, they are basically saying "what is the reason for me to keep playing this game?" which is almost synonymous with replay value.

#123 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:29 AM

View PostGileas898, on 13 January 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

There is no grind in GW2.

Exotics

Quote

At the same time you have to spend ridiculous amounts of money to attain anything in this game.

Examples, please, because I haven't spent any real life currency on anything but additional character slots, and I'm never gold starved in this game, since I sell materials on the BMA, so I have no clue what you're talking about. And this is coming from someone who has a level 80 and has done plenty of dungeon runs at max level.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 16 January 2013 - 01:30 AM.


#124 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:39 AM

View PostMastruq, on 13 January 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Well most people leave because of boredom, repetition and in their words a "lack of things to do compared to a gear-advancemen-based MMO" in the endgame.


Ok, seriously, folks, exotic gear, better stats, takes many explorable dungeon runs to obtain, how in the hell is this not a stat grind?

#125 Gileas898

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:48 AM

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 16 January 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Exotics

Please tell me where you can grind for exotics without DR so I can do the same.

Thanks.

#126 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:57 AM

View PostGileas898, on 16 January 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Please tell me where you can grind for exotics without DR so I can do the same.

Thanks.

First time per day you do an explorable it nets you 60 tokens to spend on exotic gear, each dungeon has three explorable modes, so if you do all three that's 180 exotic currency. Armor ranges from 180-260 tokens, and weapons I think 260-390. After completing an explorable once, the amount you earn is reduced to 20 tokens per run I believe. None of this counts the few extra tokens you can get from certain bosses. So, what's the problem? Seems reasonable to me.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 16 January 2013 - 02:00 AM.


#127 Gileas898

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:44 AM

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 16 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

First time per day you do an explorable it nets you 60 tokens to spend on exotic gear, each dungeon has three explorable modes, so if you do all three that's 180 exotic currency. Armor ranges from 180-260 tokens, and weapons I think 260-390. After completing an explorable once, the amount you earn is reduced to 20 tokens per run I believe. None of this counts the few extra tokens you can get from certain bosses. So, what's the problem? Seems reasonable to me.

You just told me where I can grind exotics WITH DR.

If you carefully read my post you will see that it is not in fact what I am asking for.

#128 BnJ

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:49 AM

Exotics are not a grind.

Now legendaries...  That's a grind.

#129 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 16 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

First time per day you do an explorable it nets you 60 tokens to spend on exotic gear, each dungeon has three explorable modes, so if you do all three that's 180 exotic currency. Armor ranges from 180-260 tokens, and weapons I think 260-390. After completing an explorable once, the amount you earn is reduced to 20 tokens per run I believe. None of this counts the few extra tokens you can get from certain bosses. So, what's the problem? Seems reasonable to me.

It's interesting how the gear that was supposed to be grind (dungeon gear was supposed to be about prestige, it was supposed to be about visuals) is the gear that folks sell as the GW2 version of GW1's 1k gear. ^^

Edited by Protoss, 16 January 2013 - 11:00 AM.


#130 Arquenya

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

View PostProtoss, on 16 January 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

It's interesting how the gear that was supposed to be grind (dungeon gear was supposed to be about prestige, it was supposed to be about visual) is the gear that folks sell as the GW2 version of  GW1's 1k gear. ^^
... except for the stats, which would make 5 out of 8 dungeons redundant.

#131 Stollniokas

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

Well, like my friend said, when you obtain all maximum gear, for most people there is no point in playing, I am not the person who cares about cosmetic stuff, so if I maxed out my character I am done.

Instances are crap, most of instances you just throw yourself at the boss naked and you kill it slowly. Death train should not be the tactic at any game.
I really want this game to have decent PVE raids/ instances, with real tactics thinking about team comp and build choices, I understand that having no "real" tank/healer/dps combo designing encounters is difficult, but seriously?
Just make competitive PvE raiding/dungeon system like it is in WoW or smth, granted with only cosmetic progression, titles etc as rewards, but atleast I could do something with my guild, and having something to look forward to. Make it 8-10 man because I don't think 25 would work in GW2, but still it would be far better than current dungeon design. And bosses really need a lot of work, they just random with no real depth to it. Take encounter design from WoW and mesh with boss tells/behavior from tera. BAM instant success.

Right now I just casually log in sometimes to do WvW or when event like Halloween or Christmas is going on.

#132 Lady Rhonwyn

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:59 PM

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 16 January 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Exotics
???  I got my full set of exotics without grind...  Unless you think that doing a daily a few times is a grind...

#133 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

View PostGileas898, on 16 January 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

You just told me where I can grind exotics WITH DR.

If you carefully read my post you will see that it is not in fact what I am asking for.

What do you want, to be able to grind a full set in a day? If you enjoy doing the content required to do over and over again to get the gear, then I don't see the problem. If you don't, then I can see why you'd want it over with as quick as possible. But why even do it then, if it's not fun? Game's are meant to be fun, not a chore.

View PostLady Rhonwyn, on 16 January 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

???  I got my full set of exotics without grind...  Unless you think that doing a daily a few times is a grind...

Grind as in doing the same thing multiple times.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 16 January 2013 - 01:10 PM.


#134 Arquenya

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

View PostMisterJaguar25, on 16 January 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Games are meant to be fun, not a chore.
I actually wondered what people would do if you didn't get rewards for it, like running dungeons or doing dailies.

In other words: what content is actually inherently fun?

#135 Mastruq

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostStollniokas, on 16 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Well, like my friend said, when you obtain all maximum gear, for most people there is no point in playing, I am not the person who cares about cosmetic stuff, so if I maxed out my character I am done.

Instances are crap, most of instances you just throw yourself at the boss naked and you kill it slowly. Death train should not be the tactic at any game.
I really want this game to have decent PVE raids/ instances, with real tactics thinking about team comp and build choices, I understand that having no "real" tank/healer/dps combo designing encounters is difficult, but seriously?
Just make competitive PvE raiding/dungeon system like it is in WoW or smth, granted with only cosmetic progression, titles etc as rewards, but atleast I could do something with my guild, and having something to look forward to. Make it 8-10 man because I don't think 25 would work in GW2, but still it would be far better than current dungeon design. And bosses really need a lot of work, they just random with no real depth to it. Take encounter design from WoW and mesh with boss tells/behavior from tera. BAM instant success.

Right now I just casually log in sometimes to do WvW or when event like Halloween or Christmas is going on.

The two lines I bolded struck me. Would you care about a deep and involved 10-player PvE system if it doesnt increase your stats? I would not be opposed to some raid-like content that cant be done by just everyone without any kind of coherence (dragons currently are a joke). I dont want every quarter to start with a new instances with items that have +20 to all stats so I have to do it perpetually or fall behind the curve. So where do you stand, is the important part the challenging content (with exotic/ascended loot but different cosmetics, mini-pets or tonics etc as loot)? Or is the item with +gooder the change you want and "raids" is just the way you are used to go to get +gooder?

#136 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostArquenya, on 16 January 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I actually wondered what people would do if you didn't get rewards for it, like running dungeons or doing dailies.

In other words: what content is actually inherently fun?

I don't think it's a matter of content not being fun, I think it's a matter of people treating an mmo like a job, something unenjoyable they have to do to get their paycheck, in this case, better gear. It's because in WoW, you're forced to grind gear if you want to access all the content, so people will do dungeons over and over again past the point where it's no longer enjoyable, just to get the gear required to do newer content. I think they forget that games are supposed to be fun, and when you stop having fun, you stop playing. They're used to forcing themselves to do content they either never enjoyed to begin with or that they've simply burned out from doing, so mmo's have become a chore they're forced to do to get gear. But what's the point of getting that gear, if you're not having fun doing it?

#137 Eto_Zamamai

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:45 PM

Upon reading many of these posts I find that the thing to remember in this is that GW2 just came out.  They may be "appealing" to new players, but less than half a year after launch I think it is safe to say we are all "new players".  Future expansions and the upcoming content updates will cater to what I will be many of the max level communities needs.  As far as the grind goes there is both simultaneously one, but not one.  The objective of GW2 has always been to not pressure players in to just doing one thing while always having options open for the player.  I believe the cosmetic legendary route they have taken is a very effective one, allowing players to ignore the grind or experience it in ALL aspects of the game (excluding pvp).  If you do not like all the requirements that are needed for a full legendary, the "half way legendary" ascended gear was designed to fill that gap (along with holloween gear).

I believe that if you look closely enough no groups are being singled out which is more than many MMO's can say and I find to be impressive for just over 5 months.

#138 Bohya

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:55 PM

Endgame in other MMOs is essentially an endless grind to get the best gear for your character. It may be a grueling task to most, but it gives people an objective. Since gear is capped and all content (apart from high level fractals) is easily completable by the average casual, there is no true presitige in aquring cosmetic armour. There is nothing to work for in Guild Wars 2 in end game. There are no super tough, long ass dungeons which require unique tactics per boss fight and perfect team coordination, which also means that there is no reason to have any serious guilds (the fact that you don't have to dedicate yourself to a single guild contributes to this also). Why did they also have to force us into one mode of dungeon? A lot of people like running large scale content with more than just a small party of people. The random scramble of players and the homogonous, undertuned nature of dynamic events just doesn't cut it.

I think, that in the long run, elitism will need to take over and they will have to add such hardcore content just to keep the game on par with other MMOs. It's a great concept, but ultimately their design philosophy just cannot work. Blizzard chose what they did because it was the best option for the way that MMOs play out. If there wasn't a subscription cost, the grind probably wouldn't feel as tedious as it does and may even be somewhat enjoyable, as people can work at their own pace. A lack of a subscription is an advantage that Guild Wars 2 has, and if they ever employed such a system I would have no doubt that it would shoot right back up there. So far (I know it's still relatively young) Guild Wars 2 has dissapointed me in many aspects about continued playability. I never set my hopes high, but it's this issue is not an improvement over the market dominating World of Warcraft.

#139 Eto_Zamamai

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:00 PM

Reiterating my previous comment, the game is still very young.  Certainly there are re-playable features to the game as simple as making 7 additional alts for each of the other classes, playing WvW, SPvP, monthly events, and of course the still highly prestigious and difficult to achieve legendary weapons, despite your claims.

#140 Eliirae

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

Let me add another layer that nobody seems to want to address because it's a blow agains their "perfect" GW1.

If I went in game now, and wanted to do something, what would happen?  Would I run across tons of players willing to actually play the game with another human being?

No.  In fact, on the off chance I do see someone, if they were doing runs, they'd get 7 heroes and run with that.

If you're going to compare games, then you need to compare games as they are NOW, not one game as it was compared to a game now.

Guild Wars 1 NOW is a solo slog, thanks to heroes.  Guild Wars 2, you're still constantly partying with people to do pretty much everything.  You think that just because a party frame doesn't show up means you aren't partied with people?  Because of how GW2 works, if there are other people in the area with you during an event, you are all partied together.

The "endgame" of GW1 consists of very niche builds soloing an area over and over for no reason other than because they can.  The "endgame" of GW2 consists of running dungeons in order to get tokens to gain better gear (sound familiar?).  Arguably it also consists of also running other dungeons to get an armor look you want, to combine with the stats of the "best" armor, therefore giving you both cosmetics and stats, without gimping one or the other.

You also have Legendary Weapons for the people who want to try and craft them.  That's pretty much an endgame of it's own.

I'm not trying to say that one game is better than the other, but I would like people to think about what they're saying when they complain that GW2 isn't "as good" as GW1, because for the most part, none of it is true.

#141 Daesu

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostEliirae, on 16 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Let me add another layer that nobody seems to want to address because it's a blow agains their "perfect" GW1.

If I went in game now, and wanted to do something, what would happen?  Would I run across tons of players willing to actually play the game with another human being?

No.  In fact, on the off chance I do see someone, if they were doing runs, they'd get 7 heroes and run with that.

If you're going to compare games, then you need to compare games as they are NOW, not one game as it was compared to a game now.

Guild Wars 1 NOW is a solo slog, thanks to heroes.  Guild Wars 2, you're still constantly partying with people to do pretty much everything.  You think that just because a party frame doesn't show up means you aren't partied with people?  Because of how GW2 works, if there are other people in the area with you during an event, you are all partied together.

The "endgame" of GW1 consists of very niche builds soloing an area over and over for no reason other than because they can.  The "endgame" of GW2 consists of running dungeons in order to get tokens to gain better gear (sound familiar?).  Arguably it also consists of also running other dungeons to get an armor look you want, to combine with the stats of the "best" armor, therefore giving you both cosmetics and stats, without gimping one or the other.

You also have Legendary Weapons for the people who want to try and craft them.  That's pretty much an endgame of it's own.

I'm not trying to say that one game is better than the other, but I would like people to think about what they're saying when they complain that GW2 isn't "as good" as GW1, because for the most part, none of it is true.

It depends on what you want to do.  If you do one of the daily zaishen quests, then you should be able to find a group.  Otherwise, I would agree that most people would solo with heroes.  That is what happens when you have an almost 8 years old game.  

Do I expect GW2 to be like that at 3-months old?  Of course not.  But it is like that in the open world where many times, you can't find anyone in the map to help you out.  I wanted to get that skill point shrine in cursed shores in the tomb of kings for a long time but it is guarded by one of the eye of Zhaitan champions.  Nobody would help me out for the longest time.  Until after many days, 1 mesmer finally came along and helped me.

At least in GW1, the game mechanics allow you to do almost anything in the game with heroes.  With GW2 it becomes frustrating as you need help for some tasks but you just can't get help.  Plus the high wayponit costs at level 80 and the lack of guesting don't help either.

The social issues in GW2 is one thing, but this is more than that.  It is frustrating because you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.  Some of the content in the open world require you to get help, like the group events or killing champions, but help is not always available then and there and is tentative on the server that you are playing in, the map, and the day of the week/time then.

Edited by Daesu, 16 January 2013 - 06:49 PM.


#142 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

View PostEliirae, on 16 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

If you're going to compare games, then you need to compare games as they are NOW, not one game as it was compared to a game now.

Why?

#143 Real

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:23 PM

Cosmetics as end-game doesn't work.
For one, once people glue their eyes onto one particular set or look they won't ever change it (cultural t3, for example).
And second, if end-game really was about cosmetics then why haven't we seen any new armor sets since release?

As far as legendaries go, there is no plateau of progression. It's one big gap that ascended gear (with its stupid crafting material requirements) spread out further.

#144 Stigma

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

Great discussion guys! Let me just respond to a couple things just from Page 5 O_O

View PostBohya, on 16 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

There are no super tough, long ass dungeons which require unique tactics per boss fight and perfect team coordination, which also means that there is no reason to have any serious guilds (the fact that you don't have to dedicate yourself to a single guild contributes to this also). Why did they also have to force us into one mode of dungeon?

I agree with everything you said until this. What about Fractals ? It is a long as dungeon and in harder difficulty level can take hours and also requires perfect team work and different tactics, skills, armor, weapons for each boss or map.

View PostReal, on 16 January 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Cosmetics as end-game doesn't work.
For one, once people glue their eyes onto one particular set or look they won't ever change it (cultural t3, for example).
And second, if end-game really was about cosmetics then why haven't we seen any new armor sets since release?

As far as legendaries go, there is no plateau of progression. It's one big gap that ascended gear (with its stupid crafting material requirements) spread out further.

I totally agree with this statement. Ascended Gear is like a double edged sword. It offered those desiring a gear treadmill a lil something, but at the same time it put a 150-200 gold deficit to each person's budget to obtain a Legendary... not that I don't want a shiny new Fractal weapon or back piece O_O

If Anet does follow their promise of buffing legendaries' stats and making them easier to obtain then all this will be rectified.

View PostShroomhead Fred, on 14 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Well I find Fractals easier than most of the regular dungeons, so why does that place get all the awesome drops?  Loot tables need some tweaking IMO.

Higher difficulties blow any normal dungeon out of the water.

Edited by Stigma, 16 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.


#145 lagrangeify

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:39 PM

View Postjthamind, on 13 January 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

i've never played GW1, so this question isn't intended to sound sarcastic at all. was GW1 as good as it ended up being right from the start, or did it take a while to get there?
Not in my opinion it wasn't no, far from it. I played the pve side for a month post launch, got a toon to cap. Went through it all again on a couple of alts over the course of another month, then spent the remainder of my time with vanilla GW1 exclusively immersed in pvp. And that's not my thing, I'm very much a 70/30 pve/pvp sorta gamer.

I hate to say this because I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but it really is apples and oranges. GW1, in terms of pve structure, had far more in common with something like D&D Online that came later, than it does GW2.

I really do think some people have their beer goggles on when it comes to all these winsome, misty eyed sentiments about GW1 - it took it's time getting to a point where it's rather linear and narrow pve structure was overcome by the sheer quality and quantity of subsequent content ArenaNet drip fed in.

Having said that, the team pvp was something else again, better than virtually anything else I'd played other than DAoC's mass battles.

#146 Daesu

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:33 PM

View Postjthamind, on 13 January 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

i've never played GW1, so this question isn't intended to sound sarcastic at all. was GW1 as good as it ended up being right from the start, or did it take a while to get there? i'm just curious, because i see people saying GW1 was so good at such and such, but GW2 is still bad in such and such way.

of course, you could say that if certain things were already in a game x amount of years ago, then why couldn't they also have them in this game at launch, which i would agree with. i just hope they bring back some of the awesome sounding ideas from GW1 into this game, because i want more fun content that won't lose its luster so quickly, especially on the PvE side of things.

Every game has its own problems at launch and GW1 was no exception.  However, the problems that GW1 had are different from the current problems plaguing GW2.  The problems with GW1 at about 3-4 months after launch, from my pve perspective, are:

1.  Monks were the only healing class.  There were not enough monk players in the end game missions so much so that many monks capitalized on this by charging a fee to join PUGs.
2.  Some classes were perceived to be weaker in PvE than others.  For example, mesmers.  Therefore, they were not as welcomed and sometimes kicked from PUGs to make available team member slots for stronger classes.

For GW2:

1.  It is hard to find people who have the same goals as you out in the open world.  So for some group events/killing champions, you are stuck especially if you can't deal enough damage on your own.
2.  Everyone has their own pve goals and they are spread across many servers and maps.  There is also no "looking-for-group" tool or guesting support to bring people together for a common goal.

There is no perfect game but when they call this game GW2, people expect it be a new and improved version of GW1 but it is not.  In certain ways, it is inferior to GW1 as it is right now which makes it especially disappointing.

In GW1, 3-4 months after launch, when people gather at a particular outpost/mission, it is usually quite obvious what they were there for, so grouping up for a common goal was easier then, than it is now for GW2.  In GW2, people in a particular town or a map can have many different goals.  There is nothing to actually bring people together in the open world besides just the usual DEs and people tend to avoid the harder ones especially if there are not enough people participating.  So if you want/need to do those harder DEs (e.g. the Orr temples), then too bad for you if you can't find enough people to help you.

Edited by Daesu, 16 January 2013 - 10:49 PM.


#147 Bjohrno

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:37 AM

View PostArquenya, on 16 January 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I actually wondered what people would do if you didn't get rewards for it, like running dungeons or doing dailies.

In other words: what content is actually inherently fun?

It obviously depends on the player. I'm detoxing from years of grind-like abuse in other games, and I find GW2 to just be refreshing. My wife and I play 5-10 hours each week, and exploring the world together is inherently fun. I have no illusions that I will score some epic loot after a discovery or even a jumping puzzle. I don't do dungeons with my buddies so I can get tokens for gear - I truly enjoy doing them as a group and just enjoying time in the game. My character is awesome, the world looks great, the combat is fun. Dunno, it just does it for me.

I don't expect anyone else to share this sentiment, but after 250 hours of so of this style of play since it released, I'm happy to say that I've found my new gaming home.

#148 fatrodmc

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:15 AM

As someone else said endgame should not equal any stat/gear grind. Because as soon as you get it, you will stop playing anyway.

What on earth is the point of grinding for some stats or a look, if you stop as soon as you get it?

In fact, I would say that all of that type of content is still just character progression = what you do to max your character.

Endgame should be what you do after you have maxed it.

So I hope ANet does not think legendary and ascended items are endgame...

Endgame to me has to be WvW. Because the competition with other players IS the content. It is community generated, and is the only thing that can keep people entertained indefinitely.

As it currently stands though, I am getting sick of WvW. And that is mainly because I feel like my contributions are a waste of time. If I kill people, take some camps, or even join a zerg and take a keep, so what?

I don't feel like I won anything, received any rewards, beat anyone, or really got anything for it. Maybe WvW needs a glory rank, or kills and camps count towards the points total, I don't know. All I know is I feel like I am playing for nothing. But I think fixing this aspect of WvW could be the answer.

Edited by fatrodmc, 17 January 2013 - 04:19 AM.


#149 Krazzar

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 05:59 AM

View PostArquenya, on 16 January 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I actually wondered what people would do if you didn't get rewards for it, like running dungeons or doing dailies.

In other words: what content is actually inherently fun?

I do at least one Caudecus Manor run per play session because my guildmate wants the armor. There is no unique reward from the dungeon that makes me do it, I do it because the experience is enjoyable.  I could make more money doing other things or level other characters during that time.

View PostDaesu, on 16 January 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Spoiler

This is why guilds were made so open, so you could have multiple pools of players to pull from if you want something. That's not perfect either, but being part of multiples guilds has helped me complete innumerable objectives of my own and has given me tons to do.  Knowing people that place experiences over loot helps too, if everyone just wants to do whatever is most profitable you probably won't get help for objectives in the open world.

I don't think consolidating everyone onto one server would necessarily help, you'd just see more players running by you as you fight a champion. I've noticed people generally take better care of people in their guild, even when they hardly know them personally. Generally there has to be some kind of commitment or implied contract for people to work together, which the party system is and guilds help facilitate.

Edited by Krazzar, 17 January 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#150 Daesu

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostKrazzar, on 17 January 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

This is why guilds were made so open, so you could have multiple pools of players to pull from if you want something. That's not perfect either, but being part of multiples guilds has helped me complete innumerable objectives of my own and has given me tons to do.  Knowing people that place experiences over loot helps too, if everyone just wants to do whatever is most profitable you probably won't get help for objectives in the open world.

I don't think consolidating everyone onto one server would necessarily help, you'd just see more players running by you as you fight a champion. I've noticed people generally take better care of people in their guild, even when they hardly know them personally. Generally there has to be some kind of commitment or implied contract for people to work together, which the party system is and guilds help facilitate.

Relying on guilds can work sometimes, but not always.  Not all guilds are active and some guilds are small.

Playing with more people in one server would increase the chance of you finding players who have the same goal.  If not, at least provide guesting and a LFG tool so that you can find other players who may have the same goal as you do, from other servers.

Here is an article that details my observations about guilds and the need for a LFG tool:

http://pc.gamespy.co.../1226812p1.html

Edited by Daesu, 17 January 2013 - 05:15 PM.





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