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The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..


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#31 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:17 PM

Objective? Where? What do you mean by it.
Once you master something, it's not hard. GW2 in the other hand, has close to no learning curve,
If GW2 was to copy paste UW from GW1, this forum would be flooded with crying people who claim it to be to complex, time consuming and grindy.

#32 Mastruq

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

Well most people leave because of boredom, repetition and in their words a "lack of things to do compared to a gear-advancemen-based MMO" in the endgame.

Thing is, the whole endgame argument and "lack of things to do" is based on wrong assumptions. If GW2 had launched in Aug'12 as a standard WoW clone complete with raids, people would have leveled to the cap, done the dungeons and completed all the raids by the end of October and would be whining for more content, just like they do with the GW2 that we have. Everyone clings to the illusion that the content in MMOs is made to last them for a year without getting old and boring, and in 2012 that's just a wrong view to cling to, look at the last couple of MMO releases and tell me where the company put out a year worth of content at launch. The best game in terms on content delivery was Rift I think and that is the exception on the last half-dozen years.

So yea, there is a lack of things to do and it's not going to go away until the game matures. The only way to avoid it would be for the company to finish the game and then withhold the release for over the year while they plan out new content releases. Most dont have the luxury because of schedules and funding. It even looks like GW2 did plan ahead very well with several on schedule content additions in its first quarter, but the reality of player demand and expectations overwhelmed them anyway.

#33 Gilles VI

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Objective? Where? What do you mean by it.
Once you master something, it's not hard. GW2 in the other hand, has close to no learning curve,
If GW2 was to copy paste UW from GW1, this forum would be flooded with crying people who claim it to be to complex, time consuming and grindy.

Objective as in put aside your nostalgia.
GW1 PvE just as GW2 PvE never was hard or difficult.

If you want to look at complexity, look at PvP.
If there is no learning curve or complexity, every match would be close, as there is no way good players would be able to steamroll beginners.
But hey look, it's obvious good players can totally dominate beginners, in GW1 and GW2, thus there is a learning curve, you just didn't discover it/don't want to see it.

It's painfully obvious you can't get over the fact GW2 isn't GW1 v2.0, and not only that but with your nostalgia glasses on you seem to think GW1 was better in any way.

#34 beadnbutter32

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

Lets see what facts we can agree on first, before we submerge into fanboy vs troll antics.

There are fewer and fewer new players and more and more existing players are leaving.
The facts are the game is no longer a top seller.  The facts are huge swaths of the game world are empty.
The facts are that most WvW mists rarely ever have ques to get in.

My take on why is that the MMO market is saturated while the potential player base is shrinking due to a bad economy and competition from other forms of entertainment.

Anet spent huge sums over a 5 year period hyping this game as the next big thing in MMO's.  It even had a manifesto that claimed so many of the bugaboos of MMO's would not be there. No grind, No pay to win, cash shop cosmetics and convenience only, play your way, blah blah blah.  This succeeded, GW2 sold a respectable several million copies out of the gate, but then players hit max level, and reported in forums the reality was not equal to the hype.  There is grind, there is pay to win (gambling anyone?),  The trinity was replaced with a twitchy zerg.  Now that there is street information about what the game actually is, sales have fallen off.

No one wants to spend $60 for something they can get for free elsewhere.  The market is flush with Asian grindy gambling free to play titles with just as glitzy graphics.  You can argue about 'are legendaries a grind or pay to win' but the average potential new customer has seen these kind of schemes done over and over and can recognize them for what they are.

The people who buy the game level a character or two and then leave seem to be a majority, while a few find it to their liking and become true fans who cannot understand why the game is in decline.  Every game out there has it's pollyanna fans who just wish everyone else would enjoy the game like they do.  My perception is that GW2 simply does not cut it for enough people, they hype train is over, and it is now a question of how soon does it go free to play.

#35 jthamind

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

here are some of the reasons why the game is losing its luster to me, even though i still play it daily:

1. dungeons aren't very fun or challenging for the most part. some are too easy (CoF and AC), some are annoying/frustrating (Arah and some SE paths), but none of them are genuinely fun enough to make me want to play them over and over out of pure enjoyment. as far as FotM....one of the reasons i left WoW is because i didn't want to have to grind PvE content in order to get gear to play higher level content that is supposedly more difficult. that's pretty much what FotM are. and having enemies OHKO in high FotM levels (i heard they can) is not necessarily good difficulty design.

2. sPvP only has one game mode atm, and it's not a very fun game mode. plus i just got tired of the constant stream of mesmers and heartseeker thieves.

3. WvW is fun, but it's not something i can play every single day for hours.

4. legendaries aren't really a fun/challenging goal, because they're ultimately a grind-fest atm. even if they bring in the scavenger hunt for precursors, the rest of it will still be a grind fest.

5. there's no real incentive to do full map completion again after you've done it, unless you're making multiple legendaries. as somebody else said, the world is beautifully designed, but there's little reason to go back to it.


here are some changes i'd love to see in the game that would make me play a lot more:

1. real incentives to go back into the world. like i said, it's a beautiful world, but i want more reasons to go back to it. and quests/events/quest chains that would require five or more people would be awesome. iirc, some people were mentioning zones in GW1 that require or party or something, that sounds really cool imo. but overall, i want more incentive to visit the world again. and REAL incentive, not just "kill this troll 10,000 times and he might drop a weapon."

2. a more fleshed out skill system. it feels like most weapons are useless for most classes once you get to level 80. sure, you CAN run whatever you want in a dungeon, but you might feel gimped compared to what are universally agreed upon as the "best" weapon sets. make every weapon viable in some way (and not just "this set is viable for leveling" or w/e), and make character building more unique and rewarding. a 5% increase to melee damage isn't really a rewarding upgrade. in WoW for the Mage, there was an upgrade that turned your Fire Orb into a Frostfire Orb and iirc, it gave it extra effects too (maybe chill? icr). now THAT is a cool upgrade, and an upgrade i can actually see in a fight. passive stat boosts aren't really exciting, unless seeing higher numbers pop up is what puts the boom in your kaboomium.

3. more sPvP modes. seriously.

4. this is likely never going to happen, but i want to see a rework of the condition damage system. and no, i don't mean increasing the number of stacks from 25 to 50, or something like that. it would still be boring imo, because the conditions themselves are boring. bleed, poison, burning. wow, so exciting. seriously, the reason i NEVER EVER want to have a condition build for any class is because the conditions are flat out boring and uninspired, because they're all shared. in WoW, every class has its own conditions (if it has them at all), and it's much cooler that way. for example, if a thief had a condition called "Shattered Veins" or a Necro had something like "Essence Drain" or whatever. and you'd see your little condition icon under the enemies name, instead of just bleed stacks.

5. better overall legendaries.

6. a bit more to WvW than just zerg fests. yeah, i know you can send out little teams to cap resource points and maybe even undefended towers, but we all know that overall, WvW lives and dies by the zerg. that's cool and all, sometimes it's fun to mindlessly zerg with 30 people. but sometimes it would be nice to have another unique/interesting option in WvW other than just zerging or stealth capping.

Edited by jthamind, 13 January 2013 - 03:41 PM.


#36 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 13 January 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

nostalgia
"Don't like the sequel? Obviously you're too nostalgic, the game is actually a masterpiece, you're just too blind to see it."
Yeah, I don't think so.

#37 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

On a personal level, the lack of an end-game isn't the worst thing that could happen. For instance, I spent thousands of hours in GW1 doing non-end-game content as my end-game. The game was super fun so I kept playing it. Heck, I loaded up GW1 yesterday, did Vizunah and it was a blast!
And that's what I am missing in GW2 - not an end-game, but rather a fun game.

#38 Gilles VI

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

"Don't like the sequel? Obviously you're too nostalgic, the game is actually a masterpiece, you're just too blind to see it."
Yeah, I don't think so.

And again you fail to read..
I never said the sequel is a masterpiece, and I never said you are not allowed to love GW1 (hell it's still my own favourite game), what I did say is that you are blinded by your nostalgia and in that nostalgia you fail to see GW2 already improved upon GW1.

View PostProtoss, on 13 January 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

On a personal level, the lack of an end-game isn't the worst thing that could happen. For instance, I spent thousands of hours in GW1 doing non-end-game content as my end-game. The game was super fun so I kept playing it. Heck, I loaded up GW1 yesterday, did Vizunah and it was a blast!
And that's what I am missing in GW2 - not an end-game, but rather a fun game.

Oooooh Vizunah is my favourite mission too!
Probably did that mission 100+ times just becaused I liked it so much.

#39 Arngrim Einheri

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

View PostStigma, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Free to play, microtransaction, etc... regardless.. It's an MMO. I try hard to understand but I still can't wrap my head around why people leave the game complaining that there isn't anything to do and how GW2 end game is a disappointment. What did they expect?

If this was any other monthly fee MMO people would just be in the illusion that there is an end game while they grind for max level and incrementally small upgrades. Not saying that GW2 is free of that, in fact grinding for legendaries is ridiculously long. The grind exists in GW2 like any other MMO just that they made a lot of things easily accessible unlike other MMOs and also smartly hides a lot of things. People are leaving the game for the most obcure reasons as if they have to forcefully find negative critiques.



People disliking GW2? Haw is dis POSSIBRU!

Ok let's be honest. GW2 "eliminated" the grind for gear other games have as endgame (although I think this is gonna change in the future, ahem ascended...) BUT and is a BIG BUT(well that didn't sound quite right), Anet didn't susbtitute that with a WORTHY endgame. They thought that as dungeons adjust your level and you can visit any zone because of the same reason, that would be enough endgame. But they never wondered WHY THE HECK WOULD I RETURN TO ANY OTHER AREA if there is absolutely nothing new to do? WHY WOULD I REPEAT A DUNGEON 500 times if I'm not going to unlock anything or discover anything(why to repeat those plain simple dungeons btw, with a few excepions?)?  The truth is that GW2 has only 1 endgame, to repeat those activities until your fingers bleed to get SUPER LEGENDARIES!!! And what do you do after getting a legendary? Ehm... uhm... Swing it?! Profit!!!

There is no challenge! Is only grind grind grind grind grind Bingo! you got your legendary now start another character and repeat, oh wait did you dual wield? * you! :D.
What did people expect? Something different! Something more creative! Heck idk! Not just the same shit as WoW. Because GW2 concept of endgame is just like WoW's only that WoW's takes 10x times more to achieve and you pay monthly like a fool.


Sad thing is, that kind of endgame is utter crap for many people (including me). That may be a reason to park the game. I personally left the PvE side of the game completely aside a looong time ago, now I only do PvP now and then cause I find it the only place to encounter some challenge.

#40 Runkleford

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

Let me preface my complaint by saying that I got more than my money's worth from GW2. And I still think it's a very good game in many many ways.

However, I've lost interest in the PVE side of the game quite a while ago because the game pretty much turned out to be just another MMO, especially with the introduction of Ascendent gear and other tired old MMO mechanics. I had hoped the game would be modeled after GW1's model of progression. And then there's the "endgame". We were told that the entire game was endgame. But most of the game world is empty and there's no real reason to go back to them. I'd play more if could play in the persistent open world with my level 80 instead of being stuck in an instanced dungeon with only 4 other players.

So I've been playing mostly PVP and some WvW. I have always enjoyed the PVP side of the game more than anything else. But there's been very little done to improve PVP since launch. We still don't have the promised additions like spectator mode after 3 months. The limited number of maps and objectives get very repetitive and boring after a while, especially in sPVP. tPVP is pretty much dead.

It's a damn shame.

#41 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 13 January 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

And again you fail to read..
I never said the sequel is a masterpiece, and I never said you are not allowed to love GW1 (hell it's still my own favourite game), what I did say is that you are blinded by your nostalgia and in that nostalgia you fail to see GW2 already improved upon GW1.
You know, I could just say that you're a blind fan boy who fails to see flaws in GW2's design.
Yes, there are wast improvements and many step backs at the same time.

#42 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostStigma, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Free to play, microtransaction, etc... regardless.. It's an MMO. I try hard to understand but I still can't wrap my head around why people leave the game complaining that there isn't anything to do and how GW2 end game is a disappointment. What did they expect?

If this was any other monthly fee MMO people would just be in the illusion that there is an end game while they grind for max level and incrementally small upgrades. Not saying that GW2 is free of that, in fact grinding for legendaries is ridiculously long. The grind exists in GW2 like any other MMO just that they made a lot of things easily accessible unlike other MMOs and also smartly hides a lot of things. People are leaving the game for the most obcure reasons as if they have to forcefully find negative critiques.

Anyone have comments or ideas to help me understand this existential dilemma!
Are you trying to figure out why people is leaving? Well, keep track of my posts (some sheeps are laughing now, looking forward to flame me, be sure, but report button is ready yet :P ) and where they lands. Every topic possible (and not because i love to type, as much i'm a writer, fine but that's an other story).
Now, read the content with an open mind (skip the part where i keep using the worthy word "junk"  continuosly addressing the company, keep reading). When done, ask yourself if who type those posts is a newbie or instead an elite hardcore topplayer who got everything way before the majority, someone who knows his stuff pretty well. Then explore the lucas way of play, not exploiting or skipping a single mob, his real deep knowledge of gw2 and gw1.
When done, read what he's talking about, and more posts around his ones. In a few minutes you will realize why so many people is leaving and the number is increasing. I can shortly answer "because this game is not worthy at all to log anymore, maybe just for check if you sold everything listed over the tp. After 4 months, who is not a funny teen fanboy ignoring maybe outside there is way better even f2p and funnily even with their "unique never seen gameplay" :D  (someone said pso2? Guess what, pso2 has dodge too lol and a worthy player get a worthy loot) is just pretty done. Grind like an idiot a legendary? no thanks. Are players left planning a legendary able to scam others abusing of the tp market? Maybe they can stay a bit more spitting on other people's face their 3-5 legendaries. When bored and done, time to leave. Nothing else is left. Ohh damn ye, progress of fotm. Lol. Fine, get the lv 49, deeper is cheat, been there, done that. Now what."
This kind of behaviour on an mmo can happens after 1 year, or 2. When incredible adventures are done, when you're so uber to just log for remember how epic was your trip, with a smile, maybe hoping to meet again old friends. Not this junk where guess, this kind of topic of people leaving was present 1 month ago yet, lol. So well, we was done at the 3rd month yet :P

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 13 January 2013 - 07:19 PM.


#43 Shamadamun

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

I'd still be playing if PvP was more enjoyable. When the game first came out, everyone was only running balanced builds so every fight required tactical decisions and well timed dodges.

Nowadays, everyone is just a glass cannon. The fights don't last long, and hardly take any real skill or tactical manuevers. The PvP has so much potential (in fact, at one point I said it was the best PvP I'd ever taken part in) but I'll have no part in the 1-shot circlejerk.

#44 TastySlop

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

GWAMM was endgame for me in GW1. I did it 4 times on 4 different accounts.

I can't find something comparable to this in GW2.

#45 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:20 PM

View PostShamadamun, on 13 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I'd still be playing if PvP was more enjoyable. When the game first came out, everyone was only running balanced builds so every fight required tactical decisions and well timed dodges.

Nowadays, everyone is just a glass cannon. The fights don't last long, and hardly take any real skill or tactical manuevers. The PvP has so much potential (in fact, at one point I said it was the best PvP I'd ever taken part in) but I'll have no part in the 1-shot circlejerk.
The reason because pvp is pretty dead, like Runkleford explained

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 13 January 2013 - 07:20 PM.


#46 KeybladeMaster

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

well as someone who is finally in the endgame now that i have finished my personal storyline. all i have to say: there is plenty left to do. i still have like 9 areas to complete. i also have my other personal storylines for other characters to do as well......... jeez everyone is such a whiny baby about "endgame endgame endgame"

#47 MisterJaguar25

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostAlyssa, on 12 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

Well, allot of people I know who leave do so because that gear grind they are used to is for stats and not cosmetics. I much prefer grinding for cosmetics myself but I guess everybody just feels like the grind is more worth it for stats? There are allot of other issues to why people leave but I was gearing this towards what you said concerning end-game. I know allot of people who have left because of other issues.

The explanation I just tell myself to simplify any reason people may leave is this isn't the game for everybody. It is the game for me though.

Grind for exotics, they have better stats than regular level 80 gear. That's what I'm doing.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 13 January 2013 - 10:42 PM.


#48 Trishian

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:54 PM

As for PvP, its dead for few reasons... and its not cos of maps.. LoL have 1 map, and ppl still play over and over, and dont get bored, and next championship runs.

1) 0 Balance
What Ele do atm is totaly bullshit, as i watch 45lvl streams each team have at last 2 of them, also in normal games its totaly bullshit. Tank as Guardian, mobily as thief, and Healing like no1. Thief is broken class nr2 they kill in 2s or die in2 i. I dont think its good balance for profession. Its just bored when 2ppl cant kill 1 Ele, then ele kill them both slow. Second problem is Bunker, next bullshit,my last 3 fights ended like 370 to 430 cos time run out...

But there is Real reason why ppl dont play it:
2) No real reward.
Only reward is in paidT, in gems.... but this is farmed by like 10 teams of 45+ rank ppl so no place for casuals, and as we know 80% of players are casuals.

Mostly to fix PvP just give Viable Rewards:

1)Return of Zkeys
each z key cost 1k glory, you open chest with viable loot frome PvE and PVP and rare materials, its can drop also Dusk and other hard rares and exotics
Zkeys can by sold by money in game, so ppl will farm to sell/buy them as long as they can get items and money.

2)In game flaws

-Solo Turnaments for Casuals with raiting system where random ppl do random stuff.. just like Solo Q in LoL no ful teams allowe only duo at last.

-Returns of Teams with raiting system ( like i LoL)
they will have:
Team Turnaments- for farm/gets Tickets
Paid Team Turnament- as its now but teams get raiting so its not like now when 20lvl ppl face 50lvl.

#49 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

The world is amazingly beautiful, kudos to artists, but there's no real reason to return to those places after 100% world, or after you've finished the heart/DE.

Also, I find it funny, Arena Net reduced the amount of skills because of the balanced, yet they can't even balance the current few skills of each profession..

#50 Straegen

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

I get this is an MMO and people expect to play it for thousands of hours, but it is still just a game and if a person enjoyed 100+ hours out of their 50 bucks or so then they are getting a good value. Few MMO games our of the box if any can have enough content to support endless hours of play for the masses as that generally takes years to develop. Even the venerable WoW in the beginning while impressive was a walking disaster at end game with no decent PvP. So like all modern MMOs, this one will get a bit boring for many players then they will release an expansion and it will be game on again.

Can't we just enjoy a fantastic game for what it is and once we get bored remain hopeful that future expansions will bring us back to the game? Its not like there is 15 bucks a month looming over a players head. As for me, I have 400 hours give or take and feel like I am getting great value for my money even if thieves in WvW can suck it.

Edited by Straegen, 13 January 2013 - 11:08 PM.


#51 deluxe

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

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This game lacks EVERYTHING what I loved about GW1.
It was fun to play as a generic MMO, but got boring fast and won't play it again.
GW2 is messed up on so many levels, it can not pull me back with whatever Anet decides to put in.

#52 Fenice_86

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

The world is amazingly beautiful

While this is true i hate that every armor as horribles clipping / texture issues if u try to mix them AND with every single weapon in the game (and i talk about humans, if we go watc charr or norn... lol) so many effort in the world so poor in our toons

Not to talk about the skill system and where the best Kiter wins... that's the skill? Kiting? please...

#53 Locuz

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:25 PM

I dont understand why people cant appreciate GW2 for what it is. Instead of complaining about what it isnt. In my eyes they created an MMO that is the most deserving of the title mmorpg.

The last 2 days ive been casually leveling my asura mesmer to level 15. And i have to tell you there isnt an MMO out there that has single zones that are so packed with lore and diverse content.  

But all i see is people complaining about end game. Endgame Is a mechanic that creates a fake illusion of longetivity. If you look at wow endgame in its current state for example:

- Daily quests/rep grinds.
- Rated pvp where cheaters are condoned (seen the RBG ladders yet?) & non rated pvp that is dominated by bots.
- End game PvE that takes about 3 hours in total per week. So its literally grinding the same instance 20-25 times with a weekly interval.

Is that what you desire so much?

#54 lmaonade

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

Although I am disappointed with the lack of any "Elite" type areas or content, I understand that the game has only been out for a bit over 4 months, I'm patiently awaiting any add-on content that Anet will release.

I'm seriously looking forward to any UW, FoW, Urgoz, The Deep, Malleyx, Furnace, and Primeval King type releases, I could use a challenge after already running dry all of the explorable dungeons.

Another thing I wouldn't mind are challenge missions for skin/aesthetic type rewards like Glint's Challenge, I thought those were fun (until OP mesmers made it afk-able).

as for why people are quitting the game claiming there is nothing to do, there are always people like that in every game, the seasonal players so to speak, those who hunt for game releases, play for a short while, then leave for another release.

#55 deluxe

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostLocuz, on 13 January 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I dont understand why people cant appreciate GW2 for what it is. Instead of complaining about what it isnt. In my eyes they created an MMO that is the most deserving of the title mmorpg.

The last 2 days ive been casually leveling my asura mesmer to level 15. And i have to tell you there isnt an MMO out there that has single zones that are so packed with lore and diverse content.  

But all i see is people complaining about end game. Endgame Is a mechanic that creates a fake illusion of longetivity. If you look at wow endgame in its current state for example:

- Daily quests/rep grinds.
- Rated pvp where cheaters are condoned (seen the RBG ladders yet?) & non rated pvp that is dominated by bots.
- End game PvE that takes about 3 hours in total per week. So its literally grinding the same instance 20-25 times with a weekly interval.

Is that what you desire so much?
PvP in GW1 was basically the endgame, and it kept me playing for 7+ years.
GW2 has nothing going for it PvP-wise.
Yes I am aware there are going to be additions, but it's not just PvP modes that lack.
It's the whole skill and class setup that is so simplified, everyone plays the game exactly the same way.
There is no room for skill, where GW1 PvP was all about skill. Especially Mesmer, Ranger and Monk.

Edited by deluxe, 13 January 2013 - 11:31 PM.


#56 Bloodtau

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

There were no monthly fees in GW1 yet end game was so much better than in GW2. I never got tired of doing UW and FoW. It was my way of having fun even though it was repetitive.

GW2 needs areas like UW/FOW/the deep etc. They were fun in their own way and kept you interested for ages.
That or some form of raids. Not actual raids, but something better than the lack luster dungeons in the game right now

#57 lmaonade

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

View Postdeluxe, on 13 January 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

PvP in GW1 was basically the endgame, and it kept me playing for 7+ years.
GW2 has nothing going for it PvP-wise.
Yes I am aware there are going to be additions, but it's not just PvP modes that lack.
It's the whole skill and class setup that is so simplified, everyone plays the game exactly the same way.
There is no room for skill, where GW1 PvP was all about skill. Especially Mesmer, Ranger and Monk.

agreed here, though I would give GW2 PvP a bit more credit than you give it, I definitely agree that it's too simplified, especially for theorycrafters like me, GW1 had so many skills (and so many repeated skills) that team building took long and gave me a headache, but a headache I enjoyed ;o, GW2 is too simple in that regard. Though it was Build Wars, it was still fun putting it in action.

However customization is not as weak in GW2 as you make it seem, traits still do a decent job, but not good enough imo.

Class balance is a bit better in GW2 also, Mesmers destroyed everything and anything in GW1

#58 Sheldin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

As a casual gamer, hating upon GW2 upon launch due to several reasons already mentioned in this thread I must say GW2 is not what the 'old' community desired, but what the new world of gaming required. GW2 is not only perfect for the casual gamer who would like to look as epic as any other hardcore gamer in short amounts of time but also being able to experience the same things as well.

I for one hate grinding for gear, like you have to do in most MMORPGs (i.e WoW). However, GW2 not only gave me as a casual gamer the opportunity to get good gear, both stat-wise and cosmetic wise with ease but also while having fun doing so. Now, once that was done.. what else was there to do?

That question is actually very simple to answer. Like the devs over at A-net explained in several interviews, GW2 is not about the end game. It's not about reaching cap level and farming legendary gear. It's not about owning the world in WvW. Even though you can still do all of this, it's all about the experience while doing so, nothing else. Having fun farming you legendaries? good, that's the point. You got bored with it? well, there's plenty of other things to do.

But, yes, this game has got some issues as well, but it's a young game, the expansions are not yet here and they're patching the game with bug fixes and more things to do as we speak. Heck, they added Fractals of the Mist as a new dungeon system so that people would have even more things to do, no matter level.

and that's also another thing they focused a lot on, which unfortunately a lot of you seem to forget. This game is for everyone. Whatever you do, you can do so no matter level. Of course you can't go and farm Orr at level 23, but even if you're low level you can enjoy some "typical" end-game content such as FotM, or WvW and sPvP. People need to realize that this game is not a "reach 80, grind epicccssss!!!!" - It's the journey which is the game. And of course, this game isn't for everyone, which is good, but those whining about nothing to do really have to open their eyes while they play. Seriously..

#59 Bjohrno

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

View PostAlyssa, on 12 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

Well, allot of people I know who leave do so because that gear grind they are used to is for stats and not cosmetics. I much prefer grinding for cosmetics myself but I guess everybody just feels like the grind is more worth it for stats? There are allot of other issues to why people leave but I was gearing this towards what you said concerning end-game. I know allot of people who have left because of other issues.

The explanation I just tell myself to simplify any reason people may leave is this isn't the game for everybody. It is the game for me though.

Agree completely. I just built my draconic set, and have no idea what the stats are, just that it looks amazing. Sure my guy is more powerful, but it's really more about the look. I love my characters - they play really well, and don't need massive stats to feel heroic.

#60 fatrodmc

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:36 AM

I am bored with PvE, and I have only explored 50% of the map.

Sadly I don't feel any incentive to visit the remaining areas. I think it is a shame that the personal storyline does not send you to all areas like it did in GW1.

I also think the story is quite weak. Frankly I don't care about the little quests here and there. Only thing that could get me back into PvE are completing some big events like Balthazar temple. But good luck completing that quest these days...

They really need to introduce some sort of daily, z-coin reward type quests. That is the only way to get people doing them now. And some scavenger hunts.

All that aside, PvP is the real endgame but that has its own problems.

WvW gets real boring when you know your server can't win. And I have no incentive to play sPvP when the rewards are separate from PvE.

Why even do that? Who cares about skins for a sPvP character!?




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