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The Guild Wars 2 Endgame... Let's be realistic here..


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#61 Torvald R

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

This is not really "endgame", but one thing I feel this game sorely needs is mounts. I played a lot of WoW back in the day. I would hit max level with a few characters, then get bored and quit. I always got sucked back in by the latest expansion (Except Panda-land. Never, never, never!) One of the reasons I first got sucked back in: flying mounts. I had to get me one of those!.  Once I had one, I wanted to explore EVERY corner of the world. Discover places I'd never seen, even though I max leveled 3 characters. Then, when I got sucked back in by "Cataclysm", I HAD to get me a flying drake!. After that I wanted all kinds of rare mounts. Sure I had to grind rep for some of them, (and I mean GRIND rep), but I had fun and met new friends along the way.  My point is, little things like rare mounts (or in GW2 case, ANY mounts), or the whole "reputation" thing that allows you to gain special items from certain groups, are small examples of things that can make even a casual player say, "I want that, now I have a goal to work towards".  And let's face it. Working toward, and ultimately achieving, a set goal can be a very fun and rewarding experience.  Just my 2 coppers.

#62 lazykoala

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:46 AM

View PostDraehl, on 12 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

1) Gameplay systems. Traits don't allow for enough customization due to not having a large enough effect on gameplay. Skills are far too simplistic and the dodge mechanic doesn't add enough to the game to warrant them being so simple. Either add more of a visceral first person shooter/moba type twitch mechanics or beef skills up to have more depth/complexity like other MMOs or RPGs.

This has been my greatest concern and criticism since day one and in my opinion 75% of the reason for this is due to the lack of hexes with the other 25% being due to the revamped skill system being locked to weapon choices. Hexes added so much depth to gw1 creating such a wide variety of ways to punish the opponent whereas the only punishment I can think of off the top of my head in gw2 is confusion which is pretty lame mechanic anyway. There's not much that can be done about skills locked to weapons as that was a design choice, but I was never a big fan of it since it severely limits builds. I guess they justify it by saying it is easier to balance, but I don't see such a drastic improvement in balance over build wars. I always preferred to have millions of skill choices and build wars over this system because there are tons of players who don't care about using the best build and just want the variety to choose their own builds that they have more fun with. Nothing will ever truly be perfectly balanced unless you give everyone the exact same for everything anyway, so I say why not just give tons of choices instead and let everyone choose how to have fun.

#63 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

Well... Im still hoping and praying for them to change the skill system... the current system is way too simplistic and provides no customization. I want my Guarduan wiith staff to have completely different skills from a staff guardian next to me.

#64 Craywulf

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:41 AM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 14 January 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

Well... Im still hoping and praying for them to change the skill system... the current system is way too simplistic and provides no customization. I want my Guarduan wiith staff to have completely different skills from a staff guardian next to me.
I'm not sure how you expect that to happen in GW2. Do you even know why your skill bar can vary in GW1? Let me clue you in, dual professions is what increased the diversity of skill bars, but it also created a HUGE mess when balancing. Truth be told, I bet if dual professions were not possible in GW1, we'd all be using the same skills per profession, because when you think about it, the Warrior (or any returning profession) only had like 10 skills that were used in any combination with other professions. So ArenaNet took those same 10 skills and put them in GW2 and you're bitching about a lack of junk skills you'll never use.

Diversity for the sake of variety with sure fire risk of unbalance is just poor game design. So I think I'll leave you out of the game design decisions.

Edited by Craywulf, 14 January 2013 - 01:43 AM.


#65 Locuz

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:43 AM

MMOs are designed with retention mechanics as they are called by the developers. These mechanics are purely there to keep you paying and playing. They give you a false sense of longetivity and put you on a threatmill chasing an unachievable goal. Often these gameplay elements are really repetive and boring but since there is a goal to achieve we will still do it anyway.

People who played these MMOs in the past and who make a switch to an MMO that doesnt have mechanics like that all of a sudden start missing something. Their expectations where that they would be placed on a similar threatmill.

Arenanet wanted to change that. They wanted to create an MMO that could be played just because it is a good game.

Noble thought in theory....but for most that isnt enough. And i think arenanet sees now that they made a mistake. They shouldve added some real endgame mechanics.

If they did the game couldve been a lot bigger then it is right now.

They basicly created an MMO that is as a game by far the best mmo on the market atm.....but since it lacks "smart" retention mechanics its not the top dog it couldve been.

Edited by Locuz, 14 January 2013 - 02:54 AM.


#66 omar316

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:53 AM

View Postrukia, on 12 January 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

The thing is other games like WoW makes the grind interesting and at least semi-enjoyable, in GW2 you get slapped with DR and are basically told not to play anymore.. you aren't even allowed to grind in GW2.

Practically this. If you want something in GW2 it simply is not worth the effort. You cannot simply just grind for it. The game itself is telling you to go * yourself.

DR was the worst thing to be implemented. And again this was for cosmetics. Every Tom, Jack and Dick running around with a predator or a suntwit should not have mattered.

View PostAlyssa, on 12 January 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

Well, allot of people I know who leave do so because that gear grind they are used to is for stats and not cosmetics. I much prefer grinding for cosmetics myself but I guess everybody just feels like the grind is more worth it for stats? There are allot of other issues to why people leave but I was gearing this towards what you said concerning end-game. I know allot of people who have left because of other issues.

The explanation I just tell myself to simplify any reason people may leave is this isn't the game for everybody. It is the game for me though.

PvE side:

Except even if they actually put in grinds for cosmetics it isn't viable.
Believe it or not, anyone who logs in kills some shit and finds some rare item is going to be happy.
It can be a freaking 1s item or a 1g item. as long as its a item of unique rarity that person is going to be pleased.
My buddy Ixso has got an awesome looking Arah horn. Its a great item.
But the thought of grinding Arah for it just puts me off. It's not like I am guaranteed to get a unique rare like that horn everytime i run it.

Hell its not even guaranteed i will even get a rare.​

Most probably some random greens and blues with 1 or 2 lodestones/cores or yellow "Sword"/"Axe"/"Hammer" etc will drop and out of the 5 only 1 will get it. Dude i'm happy if I get it, but what about my 4 other buddies who ran that with me. What if that buddy is someone who gets shafted 8 times out of 10 runs?

Must I go out of my way to shower him some sympathy drops due to the failure of proper rewards on Anet's part?

The most effective way to actually get massive amounts of loot is to simply grind. See above quote.

PvP:

sPvP:
Implement leveling through this mode please.
Some money rewards won't be bad either.

WvW needs to bloody change.
They need to make it a proper 3 way battle which focuses on single objectives instead of spreading the fights all over the zones.
They need to reward open world fighting instead of long drawn out seiges and defenses which either turn in keep swapping/PvDooring or quitting due to boredom or lack of progression.

Same uninspired 3 bloody *ing maps. No unique loot drops or rewards/title/achievements.

View PostRed_Falcon, on 13 January 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

I believe some people will just take a dump on any game that comes out after they get bored of it.
Thing is, no game is unlimited. Eventually, you will get bored of it. Even life can be boring once you've done everything.

While there is no way a game can be unlimited, the point is replay value. Life has got no replay value since you can't replay anything. Comparing life to anything is moot. It is almost impossible to be a certified lawyer, certified doctor, certified astronaut, certified sniper, certified diver, certified marine biologist, certified machinist, certified civil engineer while memorising the Qura'an.

You will never win against the grind called life but it's a pleasant and rewarding experience.


Quote

There is objectively plenty to do at 80, whether people find it fun or not it's their problem.
Some people just prefer to spam an easy rotation for months in the same dungeon of wow to get +1 stats.
Others like RvR and all that comes with it. Others like instanced pvp.
Others again like rare skin farming.
The important fact of it all is that GW2 doesn't require a person to do any grind.
I got max gear on all my chars by doing completely different things, never had to repeat anything - and this is very good.

You make no sense here Falcon.
You pretty much listed all there is to GW2.
Same rotation, wait, press 1 and possibly V and 6 to go through the same dungeons to get some skin.
Wait, the so called skin is completely worthless, due to several factors: its a grind, the game penalises you for grinding, there are easier ways to get the same level of armours, the stats do absolutely no crap to enhance the state of your gameplay.

Others who like RvR have no reason to play it for more than what the zerg requires it to. And nothing comes from RvRing unfortunately.

sPvP is standing around twiddling your thumbs in tournaments or randomly getting into a room playing the same mode in different skins. 5 man? Dude, I hardly can get 3 person in guild for a 3 man.

Quote

Yeah, some people force themselves to repeat content and then say it's a grind: of course bro, YOU are making it grindy.
The game rewards varied gameplay (dailies, first-time dungeon paths, etc), and doesn't reward repetition (diminishing returns).
And for the umpteenth time, legendaries are not a grind.
They are meant to be things you get after months of playing the game, you're not meant to grind for them.

It is a grind. Sugar coating grind does not make it any less painful. Same repetitive stuff completed over a few months is still a grind.

Quote

In short, there is some people who just try to play GW2 the way they played traditional MMOs and they come out unsatisfied.
Duh, this game was made for people who hated traditional MMO, for sure you aren't meant to enjoy it the traditional way.

There are things to be improved and they will come in the next 3 months.
And to think all of this came for just 50 bucks it's saying a lot. Only Skyrim gave me this longevity with that price (but this is with mods, vanilla would've lasted less) and of course GW1.

I seriously hope some other AAA traditional MMO grindfest launches so we get rid of these grind-enslaved carrot-chasing people pestering us with requests of wow cloning.

This game was meant to be a new experience.
Instead we got a traditional MMO to inhibit and punish players playing traditionally with unwarranted rules and gates with uninspired and half assed content.

#67 Akodo Akimoto

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

View PostPerm Shadow Form, on 13 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

What's high level? I'm on the level 17 and I find Fractals just , ... meh, half of the time I can't even find a team, or if I do, I can't play because of the different worlds/servers.
As weird as it may sound, fractals are too repetitive, even though UW and FoW were too, at least they were fun, for me personally.

Back in days, you could find a UWSC team in less than 5 minutes. Just log in, pick a team, and play. (Before Stones and all nerfs)

Try gw2lfg.com this is the best dungeon finder out there. This is what I use if I need to find a group for dungeon running

#68 rentauri

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:54 AM

View PostAkodo Akimoto, on 14 January 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Try gw2lfg.com this is the best dungeon finder out there. This is what I use if I need to find a group for dungeon running

You shouldn't have to use a 3rd party website to group up in an MMO (unless your using a Guild Website to coordinate). MMOs have been out for a while and Anet should have been able to at least attempt to build a LFG system into the game instead of the sad, unused one that exists.

#69 Arquenya

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

Let's be realistic ..

The thing is that ANet has made a few mistakes, in my opinion of course.
  • Making all but one area sub-max level. Not only that, the incentive to go to other areas isn't there. No special skins, handy potions, factions or other rewards to get people there. It would be better if the level cap would have been 60 and all the areas between 60 and 80 would have some special feature to keep people there;
  • Waypoints inside dungeons. Dungeons became much easier to complete than ever. A complete newbie team can still complete almost every dungeon on their first try, it's just a matter of more time and repair costs. No idea why ANet has done this, perhaps to justify the certain death trap (like CoF3) mechanisms;
  • Most content being far too easy. Pulling, target prioritizing and calling and other mechanics to complete content is hardly necessary in almost all of the content.
  • A bit the same for things like crafting. While in most games it takes quite a lot of dedication to get your crafting to max level, it's a no brainer in GW2. For a few gold everyone and his dog is an expert crafter. Which not only makes it something not really worthwhile (except for levelling), it also prevents the option to diversify.
  • Totally imbalanced rewards. Everyone just runs fractals and paths like CoF1/2, AC1/2, TA1/2; quick and easy paths. While you can spend a day trying to get a group for a storyline or paths like SE1, CoF3, any Arah path. Or a group to clear some Orr temples. The incentive to do a lot of content, mostly expressed in reward per hour, just isn't there. ANet should seriously consider rebalancing dungeon rewards; it's kind of idiotic that Arah 4 gives as much reward as CoF1. Or that storylines don't reward you tokens.
.. and more. In the end, there actually is a lot of content, the ways to make use of all that is just designed really badly: far too easy/hardly challenging (so most of it is just a walkover) and unbalanced, effectively limiting the viability to 5% of it - while it would have been a lot more.

Edited by Arquenya, 14 January 2013 - 10:38 AM.


#70 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

View PostArquenya, on 14 January 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Most content being far too easy. Pulling, target prioritizing and calling and other mechanics to complete content is hardly necessary in almost all of the content.

With no monks, I think this was the right thing to do. With no character dedicated to keeping others alive and with defensive skills being this limited, it basically means if you get hit - you die. What more difficult content would thus do is simply cause that we'd be dying much faster. And I think this would be worse.
So I think in the situation we have now, "easy" content is better.

Still, I'd rather have monks and more complex combat.

#71 Fenice_86

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

Btw i dont remember so many whiners when GW1 came out... there must be a reason if there are so many in GW2, maybe the 1st was really better than the 2nd

GW was a game based on "player's skill" to make the best Build (Guild Wars aka Build Wars)
GW2 is based on "player's skill" to... dodge? not sure if serious or...

Also... you grind GW2 for cosmetic purpouses only and we have all the armors & weapons with terribles bugs and clipping issues, a lot of them all looks the same (i.e. Medium Armor Trenchcoats Festival)
And while you can tell me they will add more skins as time goes by i do not accept that in all the years they had to build this game their designers missed so many clipping issues with their own works omg! They just did a BAD WORK, no excuses!

They also made that huge mistake with the "gear gap" between exotics and legendaries, trying to fix it with Ascended gears (badly managed too).

The reward system + the RNG system... well better not even start a discussion here isnt it?

Come on GW2 could have been a lot better than this, overall considering they MADE GW1 and they were experienced and aware of what ppl like and dislike

#72 BuddhaKeks

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

Dayum, a lot of people have to put down the nostalgia filter. Don't get me wrong, GW1 was an insanely good game, I even would say I prefer it over 2, because felt a little bit more unique and had better pvp, but saying GW1 had more endgame than GW2? What? Really? Have you even played Prophecies when it came out?

I knew a lot of WoW/generic other MMO players hated GW1 for it's lack of lategame, when it came out. And yes, late game in GW1 was mostly pvp. You had areas like FoW and UW but that was it. You played through the story and then you could farm these two areas. Maybe the titan quests, I don't remember if they were there from the start or added later. The only other thing you could do was replay missions, there wasn't even the hard mode, which came only after EotN was released. Sorrow's Furnace also came only months after release.
And I have to ask you, was it really that fun play FoW or UW with prophecies skills only? I mean, it was doable, but it could be so frustrating if one of those dirty NPCs died.

GW2 had at launch muuuuuuuch more endgame, with all the dungeons + explo modes, which are at times hard, but atleast not cheap like doing it from the beginning because one NPC died.
Oh nobody is doing the dungeons anymore because of fractals? Guess what, fractals are endgame too, and pretty entertaining I might add (and it is easy for ANet to add new fractals with updates). Also you can still find groups for dungeons, no problem. It takes longer than before yes, but you are not waiting around for hours.
And there is more to do, 100% completion for example, or WvW. I play this game since launch, and I have done most dungeons and 100% world completion and I still have stuff to do. Last but not least, GW2, like GW1, is not ment to be grinded like many other MMOs. It's ment to hop in, have some fun, play something else for a while and visit it again whenever you feel like it. If you really have nothing to do in GW2, just play any other game for a while. As long as you keep yourself updated on patches, you wont even miss anything important like one time events.

#73 Gileas898

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:06 PM

View PostBuddhaKeks, on 14 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Dayum, a lot of people have to put down the nostalgia filter. Don't get me wrong, GW1 was an insanely good game, I even would say I prefer it over 2, because felt a little bit more unique and had better pvp, but saying GW1 had more endgame than GW2? What? Really? Have you even played Prophecies when it came out?

I knew a lot of WoW/generic other MMO players hated GW1 for it's lack of lategame, when it came out. And yes, late game in GW1 was mostly pvp. You had areas like FoW and UW but that was it. You played through the story and then you could farm these two areas. Maybe the titan quests, I don't remember if they were there from the start or added later. The only other thing you could do was replay missions, there wasn't even the hard mode, which came only after EotN was released. Sorrow's Furnace also came only months after release.
And I have to ask you, was it really that fun play FoW or UW with prophecies skills only? I mean, it was doable, but it could be so frustrating if one of those dirty NPCs died.

GW2 had at launch muuuuuuuch more endgame, with all the dungeons + explo modes, which are at times hard, but atleast not cheap like doing it from the beginning because one NPC died.
Oh nobody is doing the dungeons anymore because of fractals? Guess what, fractals are endgame too, and pretty entertaining I might add (and it is easy for ANet to add new fractals with updates). Also you can still find groups for dungeons, no problem. It takes longer than before yes, but you are not waiting around for hours.
And there is more to do, 100% completion for example, or WvW. I play this game since launch, and I have done most dungeons and 100% world completion and I still have stuff to do. Last but not least, GW2, like GW1, is not ment to be grinded like many other MMOs. It's ment to hop in, have some fun, play something else for a while and visit it again whenever you feel like it. If you really have nothing to do in GW2, just play any other game for a while. As long as you keep yourself updated on patches, you wont even miss anything important like one time events.

Yes. GW1 had really good end-game after three expansions. Now to the question;

Are you under the illusion that the end-game we currently have won't be obsolete when they release a new expansion and increase the level cap?

#74 FoxBat

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

View PostGileas898, on 14 January 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Are you under the illusion that the end-game we currently have won't be obsolete when they release a new expansion and increase the level cap?

You mean the one where you are downscaled in 5 out of 8 dungeons anyway, and fractals will probably raise with the cap? (since it is *the* end dungeon going forward...)

The dungeon token reward items may or may not be updated to the new max, either way much of dungeon running was about skins, those still won't be available elsewhere. Heck ascalon is scaled down to 35 and people still run it for cash, the level cap upping isn't necessarily going to change that.

Edited by FoxBat, 14 January 2013 - 06:21 PM.


#75 chrisbdrake

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostGileas898, on 14 January 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Yes. GW1 had really good end-game after three expansions. Now to the question;

Are you under the illusion that the end-game we currently have won't be obsolete when they release a new expansion and increase the level cap?

We can only hope they don't raise the level cap.  I think raising the level cap would be a mistake.  I know they stated their preferences to do so, but I bet they don't do it.

#76 Arewn

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostFenice_86, on 14 January 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Btw i dont remember so many whiners when GW1 came out... there must be a reason if there are so many in GW2, maybe the 1st was really better than the 2nd

GW was a game based on "player's skill" to make the best Build (Guild Wars aka Build Wars)
GW2 is based on "player's skill" to... dodge? not sure if serious or...

Also... you grind GW2 for cosmetic purpouses only and we have all the armors & weapons with terribles bugs and clipping issues, a lot of them all looks the same (i.e. Medium Armor Trenchcoats Festival)
And while you can tell me they will add more skins as time goes by i do not accept that in all the years they had to build this game their designers missed so many clipping issues with their own works omg! They just did a BAD WORK, no excuses!

They also made that huge mistake with the "gear gap" between exotics and legendaries, trying to fix it with Ascended gears (badly managed too).

The reward system + the RNG system... well better not even start a discussion here isnt it?

Come on GW2 could have been a lot better than this, overall considering they MADE GW1 and they were experienced and aware of what ppl like and dislike
A good reason you don't 'remember' so many whiners when GW1 released compared to GW2 is likely because it was 7 years ago and you have a fair bit of nostalgia. But more to the point, GW2 is a much higher profile game, more popular/advertised, it's not the first game of a new company the way GW1 was, which means it's being seen by a wider audience and under a lot more criticism.

The ability to make a build can be referred to as a skill... but it's generally not what people refer to as being a "skill based game". Usually if you're talking about a game being based on skill, you're talking about execution, your actually skill and ability while actively playing the game, not  your capability to make an excellent build and ultimately: "my build counters or is better/stronger than yours, so I win/have a large advantage and will win". That's NOT to say gw1 doesn't have a high skill factor, but your example is terrible.

GW2 is very different from GW1, which is why many GW1 players have problems with it. If you liked GW1 and they changed it, and as such many of the things you liked, of course there's going to be a good chance you dislike the new game that completely changed it. However that does not make GW1 a 'better game', nor does your dislike for GW2's changes make it bad.
Personally, I couldn't stand GW1, found it terribly boring and have trouble even watching an LP of it for the sake of seeing the story... yet I think GW2 is fantastic. That doesn't mean I think GW1 is bad game though.

#77 Fenice_86

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:46 PM

View PostArewn, on 14 January 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

A good reason you don't 'remember' so many whiners when GW1 released compared to GW2 is likely because it was 7 years ago and you have a fair bit of nostalgia. But more to the point, GW2 is a much higher profile game, more popular/advertised, it's not the first game of a new company the way GW1 was, which means it's being seen by a wider audience and under a lot more criticism.

The ability to make a build can be referred to as a skill... but it's generally not what people refer to as being a "skill based game". Usually if you're talking about a game being based on skill, you're talking about execution, your actually skill and ability while actively playing the game, not  your capability to make an excellent build and ultimately: "my build counters or is better/stronger than yours, so I win/have a large advantage and will win". That's NOT to say gw1 doesn't have a high skill factor, but your example is terrible.

GW2 is very different from GW1, which is why many GW1 players have problems with it. If you liked GW1 and they changed it, and as such many of the things you liked, of course there's going to be a good chance you dislike the new game that completely changed it. However that does not make GW1 a 'better game', nor does your dislike for GW2's changes make it bad.
Personally, I couldn't stand GW1, found it terribly boring and have trouble even watching an LP of it for the sake of seeing the story... yet I think GW2 is fantastic. That doesn't mean I think GW1 is bad game though.

What about the other points?
Armors bad design, poor choice, clipping issues with weapon?
Or RNG? Or Party making system missing (lol they had it in GW1)?
Or Hey! dont forget we still havent Guild Halls in Guild Wars, LOL

#78 Bonana

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostGileas898, on 13 January 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Oh and I just saw this. Got to be a joke right?

Right...?

No it's not. I've been playing the game. And without realizing, I've been gaining a lot of items needed for a legendary. I bet by next month, I'll have Twilight, or Sunrise.

I really don't know what the rush is with this community. I've had the game since September. It's a lot of fun, even after level 80.

#79 Daesu

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

View PostCraywulf, on 14 January 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

I'm not sure how you expect that to happen in GW2. Do you even know why your skill bar can vary in GW1? Let me clue you in, dual professions is what increased the diversity of skill bars, but it also created a HUGE mess when balancing. Truth be told, I bet if dual professions were not possible in GW1, we'd all be using the same skills per profession, because when you think about it, the Warrior (or any returning profession) only had like 10 skills that were used in any combination with other professions. So ArenaNet took those same 10 skills and put them in GW2 and you're bitching about a lack of junk skills you'll never use.

Diversity for the sake of variety with sure fire risk of unbalance is just poor game design. So I think I'll leave you out of the game design decisions.

Not true, unless you just follow the meta crowd all the time and have no brains to innovate your own build.  Taking your example of a GW1 warrior, if you wield a hammer, you can use this build or this build.  Both are equally viable in PvE and it depends on the area that you are playing.  GW2 buids, however, are not as customizable based on the area that are you playing because it lacks diversity.  There are obviously more than 10 usable skills in those builds even without taking any secondary profession skills into account.  GW2 just doesn't have enough skills to pique our interest.

Simplifying the builds to make it easier to balance at the expense of diversity is a grave mistake.

Edited by Daesu, 14 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#80 Gileas898

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostBonana, on 14 January 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

No it's not. I've been playing the game. And without realizing, I've been gaining a lot of items needed for a legendary. I bet by next month, I'll have Twilight, or Sunrise.

I really don't know what the rush is with this community. I've had the game since September. It's a lot of fun, even after level 80.

So let me get this straight. You have just "gained" 100 Lodestones as well as 100 Runestones.

Yeah... Uhu.

View PostFoxBat, on 14 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

You mean the one where you are downscaled in 5 out of 8 dungeons anyway, and fractals will probably raise with the cap? (since it is *the* end dungeon going forward...)

The dungeon token reward items may or may not be updated to the new max, either way much of dungeon running was about skins, those still won't be available elsewhere. Heck ascalon is scaled down to 35 and people still run it for cash, the level cap upping isn't necessarily going to change that.

You say it so well yourself. Fractals is "the" dungeon right now. It is also the latest to be released.

Do you notice a trend here, or should I spell it out?

#81 Bonana

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostGileas898, on 14 January 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

So let me get this straight. You have just "gained" 100 Lodestones as well as 100 Runestones.

Yeah... Uhu.

Honestly, no.

Making gold isn't that hard. I've made 70g just by participating in World vs World alone. Was easy buying the runestones. And I'm currently at 37 lode stones. Of which, I did get a few of them from the mystic forge.

Again, I've been playing for about almost 4 months, Your arguments are invalid ;) !

#82 Jobuu

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

View Postrentauri, on 14 January 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

You shouldn't have to use a 3rd party website to group up in an MMO (unless your using a Guild Website to coordinate). MMOs have been out for a while and Anet should have been able to at least attempt to build a LFG system into the game instead of the sad, unused one that exists.

i agree on this

#83 Arewn

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:10 PM

View PostFenice_86, on 14 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

What about the other points?
Armors bad design, poor choice, clipping issues with weapon?
Or RNG? Or Party making system missing (lol they had it in GW1)?
Or Hey! dont forget we still havent Guild Halls in Guild Wars, LOL
Well I just hit the "previous page" button on my mouse and lost everything I typed and have no desire to retype it.
Suffice to say I disagree that your hack job list of problems with GW2 constitute it being inferior.  A similar list could easily be assembled about GW1 (or most game for that matter) and the listed problems aren't even that big a deal in the grand scheme of things as it is.
I agree GW2 has problems and plenty of room for improvement (as I have in many other threads), I just don't find that to be sufficient reason for the negativity.

#84 Norn Osprey

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

View Post4arsie4, on 13 January 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

Having said that, all the dungeons need a major rework
Already in the works.

View PostDraehl, on 12 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

I'm waiting on the update this month to see if I even bother following the game or not. And it has nothing to do with lacking an endgame grind.

1) Gameplay systems. Traits don't allow for enough customization due to not having a large enough effect on gameplay. Skills are far too simplistic and the dodge mechanic doesn't add enough to the game to warrant them being so simple. Either add more of a visceral first person shooter/moba type twitch mechanics or beef skills up to have more depth/complexity like other MMOs or RPGs.

2) Repeatability/Event difficulty. This does in a way play into endgame, but not in the way most interpret it. Replaying existing content is fine, but if the difficulty isn't properly tuned you either steamroll content or can't do it due to not enough players. I'd love to replay low level zones but the tuning is so off there's no reason to. More lasting impact on the world would also add more interest/motivation for players.

1a. Traits don't add enough depth ?   You change how your character plays.

1b. Skills are too simplistic ? You have DPS, heals, Elites, CC. What you dont have is skill bloat like every other game out there because skills are across all of your possible weapons. "Oh look, another attack. That makes 42 now. Whoopey  Now I need to add another skill bar." No.

1c. FPS twitch? Please no. This isnt Super Ghost and Ghouls.

1d. Skill depth in other MMOs?  * much laughter *  What depth to skills do other MMOs have? Yep, DPS, heals, Elites (not every game have them), CC.   Seems to be the same as this game.


2. Some events do change things. In Wayfarer, the ice elementals can take over a keep and hold it until players retake it. There is an event chain north of Lion's Arch were bandits take over a village and keep. One event change in Orr allows people to takeover a base. If the event fails, you dont get the base and nearby waypoint.

Remember, Anet said they can add more events as the game goes along.

View PostStigma, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Anyone have comments or ideas to help me understand this existential dilemma!

People are fickle. They want a complete, bug-free software product, at release, that will keep them busy for about, umm 2-3 months. During that time, they will first praise the game, then become indifferent and finally bash it on their way out.

The only people that write completely bug-free software is NASA. They have to or their mission ends in failure. However, the cost for bug-free software is extremely high.

There were a ton of videos on YouTube explaining in great depth, what this game had and didn't have. People simply did not do the research. They bought it, thinking it was something it was not, got disgruntle and left. It is also the case that it seems Anet is changing some of there previously stated objectives for this game -- which disillusions other gamers.

Ultimately, each person will need to decide if the game has enough postives to outweight the negatives and that is not something anyone else can decide for them.

#85 Tregarde

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

I'll just make a quick post in response...

Just how much "end game" do people expect? GW2 has dungeons. Many dynamic events are essentially raids. It has many PvP options. A gear grind is there, but it's not something so demanding that you practically have to play the game as a second job. Unlike other games, there actually is incentive to do lower level zones, and things in those lower level zones can still provide a challenge sometimes.

The game isn't perfect, there are features I think are missing, but I'm still having fun in GW2.

#86 Pipples

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostStigma, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Free to play, microtransaction, etc... regardless.. It's an MMO. I try hard to understand but I still can't wrap my head around why people leave the game complaining that there isn't anything to do and how GW2 end game is a disappointment. What did they expect?

People are spoiled coupled with 1 of 2 factors:

1) They are adults who feel that they can say or do whatever they want and, since they're adults, they deserve whatever they ask for or
2) They're kids who's parents don't slap them when they whine incessantly about things they have no justifiable right to whine about

#87 Pipples

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

View PostTorvald R, on 14 January 2013 - 12:43 AM, said:

This is not really "endgame", but one thing I feel this game sorely needs is mounts. I played a lot of WoW back in the day. I would hit max level with a few characters, then get bored and quit.

Every game that has mounts has a massive amount of area that is never touched, in many cases never even seen, by players. Forcing people to walk/run meant that, at the very least, the work the devs did would be seen. In some cases it also meant forced combat and/or running for your life.

Example: Early Everquest 1 was relatively small (compared to modern MMOs) but felt HUGE. Traveling from one zone to another on another continent could take an hour, no joke, and that's if you didn't die in the process. One of the biggest complaints they saw in spite of the massive bugs were complaints about adding the Plane of Knowledge books (basically items that teleported you). I could travel ANYWHERE in WoW in under 15 minutes while avoiding all combat, including guards.

#88 BuddhaKeks

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostGileas898, on 14 January 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Yes. GW1 had really good end-game after three expansions. Now to the question;

Are you under the illusion that the end-game we currently have won't be obsolete when they release a new expansion and increase the level cap?

Are you under the impression there will be a new level cap? GW1 certainly didn't. Okay they gave us ascended items, but guess what, GW1 didn't have green items from the beginning. ;)

View PostFenice_86, on 14 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Armors bad design, poor choice, clipping issues with weapon?
Or RNG? Or Party making system missing (lol they had it in GW1)?
Or Hey! dont forget we still havent Guild Halls in Guild Wars, LOL

Bad armors? More than enough in GW1, especially most for male ele were terrible, they gave us maybe 2 good ones. Clipping issues? Have you ever equipped a shield in GW1? It has issues with many gauntlets.
Party making system was only implemented much later. Certainly after NF's release.
The title is more or less an artifact title, it is just there to show that it is set in the same world, we don't even have GvG in Guild Wars 2. And guild halls weren't used for much else anyway. Really GvG, testing RA builds and trading with guild members were the only times I even used the guild hall for and nothing of this exists in GW2.

Now RNG is the only thing you are right about, but I think they already said somewhere that they wont increase the usage of it.

#89 Daesu

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostPipples, on 14 January 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

People are spoiled coupled with 1 of 2 factors:

1) They are adults who feel that they can say or do whatever they want and, since they're adults, they deserve whatever they ask for or
2) They're kids who's parents don't slap them when they whine incessantly about things they have no justifiable right to whine about

or
3) They have played GW1 and they know what they missing out in GW2.  ;)

GW2 has a lot of potential and has much better graphics quality than GW1.  However, it has also some worse design elements that are crucial and departed from the GW1 design.

GW2 skill system is so simplified that it is boring.  A staff guardian has almost the same skill bar with another staff guardian.  The crafting system could have been improved too, to be able to craft your own items as you level up.  But it is very hard to do so, the way it is implemented right now.

Edited by Daesu, 14 January 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#90 Daesu

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostBuddhaKeks, on 14 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Are you under the impression there will be a new level cap? GW1 certainly didn't. Okay they gave us ascended items, but guess what, GW1 didn't have green items from the beginning. ;)

GW2 didn't exist at that time either.  So unless ArenaNet never learnt anything from GW1, we should compare the 2 products as they stand right now.

Edited by Daesu, 14 January 2013 - 09:18 PM.





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