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[Build] Necromancer Hybrid with Double Bleed Duration

necromancer build hybrid power condition bleed duration

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#1 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:46 AM

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As you may have noticed, I've been doing some work lately with the idea of doubling bleed duration. Through this work, as well as the often inadvertent contributions of several other members of the community, I came up with this build. I hope you find this information helpful, even if you don't end up using this exact setup.

This build offers little in the way of defense. You will get a little bit of extra Vitality and a pretty decent boost to your Life Force Pool by way of 25 points in Soul Reaping. Other than that, you must rely on kiting and absorbing big hits with Death Shroud. Don't forget that Doom (2 seconds with this build) can be used nearly any time. During a roll, when you're knocked down, while channeling another skill, etc.
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  • More gear choices - now with more flexibility and defense!
  • Added Ascended gear
  • Various formatting changes + changed graph in Gear section
  • Added a Weapons section
  • The Gear section - now with 10% more crit chance!
  • The Sigil section - now with double the Sigil of Earth!
  • The Traits section - now with more alternatives!

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(Gear not properly represented)

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Edited by Reverse Ghost, 04 March 2013 - 12:27 AM.

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#2 Balthor

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:13 AM

Awesome write up! It looks effective, though mainly at max level. Would this work at all for leveling?

#3 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

View PostBalthor, on 14 January 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Awesome write up! It looks effective, though mainly at max level. Would this work at all for leveling?

I don't have any actual experience attempting to level with something like this (I had hit level 80 before coming up with it), but it looks like it would hold up in theory. You certainly won't be able to reach +100% bleed duration until pretty late in the leveling experience, but you can still benefit from the combination of whatever duration boost you can get at the time and the Power.

The problem is that this is a 3-stat approach: Condition Damage, Power, and Precision, and you don't get access to triple attribute gear for a while. Potent gear gives Power and Condition Damage early on, or you can go with Ravaging, which gives Condition Damage and Precision. I would recommend Potent, since it really helps make destructible objects less annoying and precision doesn't become a huge factor until its relatively high.

The Curses traitline is the first priority followed by Soul Reaping and finally Spite.

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#4 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:19 AM

Updated / changed the build:
  • Increase from 50% to 60% crit chance
  • Changed Sigil section
  • Lots more on Traits
  • Clarified some important bits

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 20 January 2013 - 04:44 AM.

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#5 Elrathan

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:16 AM

This looks like a great build. I've always thought that hybrid builds were under appreciated. The only thing that it's missing for me is 10 points in death magic to get Greater Marks. I don't think it would be wise to move anything out of curses and although I'm not a huge fan of the spite traits I'm not sure if I could keep the condition duration at 100 without it. Do you think it's possible to shift some points from anywhere?

Edited by Elrathan, 21 January 2013 - 12:18 AM.


#6 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:31 AM

View PostElrathan, on 21 January 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

This looks like a great build. I've always thought that hybrid builds were under appreciated. The only thing that it's missing for me is 10 points in death magic to get Greater Marks. I don't think it would be wise to move anything out of curses and although I'm not a huge fan of the spite traits I'm not sure if I could keep the condition duration at 100 without it. Do you think it's possible to shift some points from anywhere?

One thing you could do is switch from 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait to 2x each of Afflicted, Krait, and Centaur. That would increase the bleed duration from gear to 45%, eliminating the need for any points in Spite. You'd lose some Condition Damage, however (110 condition damage, which equates to 5.5 bleed damage per tick).

Basically, any points moved to Death Magic is going to be a loss in damage, that's just the nature of the trait lines, but you could take 10 points out of Soul Reaping. You lose the static +5% damage and 10% crit damage from doing that (as well as a major trait slot).

If you have mad cash resources, you could upgrade the most expensive kind of pizza, Rare Veggie, which would allow you to pull 5 points out of Spite and still maintain +100% bleed duration, then you'd only need to take 5 points from either Curses or Soul reaping.

So your choices are: lose condition damage, lose direct damage, or lose a bit of both.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 21 January 2013 - 12:34 AM.

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#7 Elrathan

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:47 AM

View PostReverse Ghost, on 21 January 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

One thing you could do is switch from 3x Afflicted and 3x Krait to 2x each of Afflicted, Krait, and Centaur. That would increase the bleed duration from gear to 45%, eliminating the need for any points in Spite. You'd lose some Condition Damage, however (110 condition damage, which equates to 5.5 bleed damage per tick).

Basically, any points moved to Death Magic is going to be a loss in damage, that's just the nature of the trait lines, but you could take 10 points out of Soul Reaping. You lose the static +5% damage and 10% crit damage from doing that (as well as a major trait slot).

If you have mad cash resources, you could upgrade the most expensive kind of pizza, Rare Veggie, which would allow you to pull 5 points out of Spite and still maintain +100% bleed duration, then you'd only need to take 5 points from either Curses or Soul reaping.

So your choices are: lose condition damage, lose direct damage, or lose a bit of both.

Thanks for that. I think I'll go with the alternate ruin setup so I can put an extra 5pts in Soul Reaping to pick up Near to Death http://intothemists....JG6fgm06ZH97FG. The increased uptime on fury provided by this should be quite useful. Also, what do you think of Withering Precision for when the bleed cap becomes problematic? Weakness is a fairly powerful condition and with both this builds high crit chance and Enfeebling Blood it should have a decent uptime.

#8 Switchback

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:31 AM

This should be a very good dps build and versatile for PVE with the high power AND condition, but it is very squishy, under 1000 Vitality and Toughness, and under 20k health, I would not recommend it as a WvW build unless you are permanently in a zerg or just very good defensively. The 2 second fears will help buying time but burst classes will likely be able to drop you fast. You have some LF but will remain squishy while in it.

Nice addition to the cannon of builds though.

#9 Rocky Balmoa

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

Would you recommend this build for leveling? If so, which traits should i focus on first?

#10 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostSwitchback, on 21 January 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

This should be a very good dps build and versatile for PVE with the high power AND condition, but it is very squishy, under 1000 Vitality and Toughness, and under 20k health, I would not recommend it as a WvW build unless you are permanently in a zerg or just very good defensively. The 2 second fears will help buying time but burst classes will likely be able to drop you fast. You have some LF but will remain squishy while in it.

Nice addition to the cannon of builds though.

Yeah this build is definitely made for Player vs AI :)


View PostRocky Balmoa, on 21 January 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Would you recommend this build for leveling? If so, which traits should i focus on first?

As I said in this post, I don't have any experience in trying to level this exact build, but I really do feel that leveling up in Guild Wars 2 is an experience. I attribute much of my love for the Necromancer profession to my time spent experimenting with different builds or styles while leveling up. The PvE in this game is easy enough that you can get by with basically anything.

However, if you do intend to level as a hybrid, Potent gear has power and condition damage, and Ravaging gear has condition damage and precision. I found that prioritizing Curses and then Spite early on was helpful. Soul Reaping is more helpful at later levels than early ones.

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#11 Wladimir Wronski

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

Thanks a lot for this build and your explanation of the details.

One question: Would you recommend putting 2 Earth Sigils into each of your underwater weapons?

#12 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:24 AM

View PostWladimir Wronski, on 28 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Thanks a lot for this build and your explanation of the details.

One question: Would you recommend putting 2 Earth Sigils into each of your underwater weapons?

I haven't tested it myself, but Switchback mentioned this in one of his posts in my other topic:

View PostSwitchback, on 18 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

The Earth Sigil also does not appear to work on underwater weapons, which is a shame since it would synergize well with Trident. I also found other proc sigils to not work underwater such as Fire and Lightnting.

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#13 BlueDragoon

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 06:49 AM

Where do you get the Exotic backpiece? It seems it's Burntclaw's Brace but I can't seem to find where it's from. Any advice? http://www.gw2db.com...urntclaws-brace is the link I had found on it, no info on it though.

#14 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:33 AM

View PostBlueDragoon, on 06 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Where do you get the Exotic backpiece? It seems it's Burntclaw's Brace but I can't seem to find where it's from. Any advice? http://www.gw2db.com...urntclaws-brace is the link I had found on it, no info on it though.

Nice eye. I had meant to switch that graph out earlier but I forgot! The old graph was just pure theorycrafting by the numbers, even if the items weren't feasible or even available in game. After making that graph I made a new one using more attainable items. I'll switch it out in the OP but describe it a bit here as well.

Posted Image


This setup uses a back slot item gotten from a quest everyone will do in their Personal Story. Depending on your choice of Order, the quest will be different but you always get those three choices. In our case we pick the Rampagers Spineguard of the Rampager. It's only of Masterwork quality, but comes with an Exotic jewel.

One thing to note: if you're gearing up in Rare to get started with this build, you can just go full Rampager's (with the same Order backpack). It will get you up to 59.90% crit chance.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 07 February 2013 - 04:24 AM.

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#15 Azalore

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:41 PM

How is this build's dps compared to standard condition build?

#16 Wicklow

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM

Do you know if sigil of agony effects the duration of barbed precision procs, I know it doesn't effect the duration of bleeds from utilities, I can do some testing myself if you don't know.

#17 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:00 AM

View PostAzalore, on 13 February 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

How is this build's dps compared to standard condition build?
A completely pure Condition build like full Rabid and Runes of the Undead is definitely going to have bleeds that tick for more damage, around 20 more damage per tick, which is considerable. A direct DPS compassion is difficult, especially since this build has that +100% bleed duration figure. In longer fights and fights with many players, I believe this build will do more damage total, but in shorter fights where the +100% bleed duration suffers because your bleeds don't last their full duration, a full Rabid / Undead kills faster. Then again, since this build has good direct damage, it might be able to compensate for that. Haha, honestly I don't have an answer :lol:. There's just so many factors.  

A pure Condition build will, in all likelihood, do more damage per second because those bleeds hit so damn hard, unless the user of my build is constantly switching between condition and direct damage in an attempt to compete. My bleed ticks will never hit as hard. But this build's damage is easier to sustain because of its longer Condition Duration. You can drop some bleeds on the opponent, then do other things, and those bleeds will tick for ages. I like to think of it as more true to the attrition concept. Plus the versatility of being able to do direct damage if and when the bleed cap is hit.

View PostWicklow, on 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Do you know if sigil of agony effects the duration of barbed precision procs, I know it doesn't effect the duration of bleeds from utilities, I can do some testing myself if you don't know.
I haven't really used the Sigil of Agony myself, I just included it because Dominox suggested it as an alternative to using pizza. The description on the Sigil would lead me to believe that as long as you have the weapon with that Sigil equipped, all bleeds you apply should last 10% longer, but we all know the GW2 tooltips can't always be trusted :P. However, if you are right that it doesn't affect bleeds from utilities, that is a little disconcerting.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 14 February 2013 - 05:05 AM.

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#18 Wicklow

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

Th reason I ask is that I use a build that incorporates both bleed duration and maximum condition damage.  The basic of it is 30/30/10/0/0. I the spite tree I use traits that increase my minion damage, give me retaliation and increase my damage by 20% to mobs under 50% which I know is terrible but I really want the condition duration from the tree and I don't see there is a better option. Then the standard curse tree, with hemophilia, master of corruption, and lingering curse.  In death magic I go with greater marks.  The idea is I get 30% duration from spite, 40% from my pizza, 20% from hemophilia and 10% from sigil of agony for a total of 100%. This allows me to use runes of the undead with and a master tuning crystal with full rabid gear.  My bleeds hit for a lot and they last for a long time. Also the flesh golem is pounding away about 80% of the time, which I saw crit for 2400 the other day.

Anyways some feedback would be nice.

Also I have a question that I've been wondering about that maybe you know something of.  If you apply a bleed that has 10.5 seconds of durations know it will only tick  10 times but does the debuff stay on the mob for .5 secs of time at some point at the beginning or end of its duration where it doesn't tick?  If it does then my thought was that since the stack amount dictates the number of ticks per sec, if you somehow had 10 stacks all applied simultaneously for 10.5 seconds of duration will you do an additional 5 ticks of damage during the .5 seconds?  The idea came to me because not all stacks tick independently of when they were applied.  If you have 3 stacks you see a tick every third of a second and 4 stacks every quarter of a second etc.  just some food for thought

One more thing, I read somewhere someone did some testing on bleed duration and concluded that lingering curse causes the bleeds inflicted from you scepter to round up to the next highest integer of ticks.  For example if you have enough bleed duration and lingering curse to get a bleed to have a 13.6 duration it will actually tick 4 times because of lingering curse.  Likewise if you have a situation where it will be 13.1 seconds of bleed it will still round up to 14. http://www.guildwars...d-vs-6x-undead/ the guy was unknowndomo a bit down the page.

Also sorry for any grammar errors I missed I'm writing this on a tablet on a train.

Edited by Wicklow, 14 February 2013 - 04:45 PM.


#19 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:17 PM

View PostWicklow, on 14 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Also I have a question that I've been wondering about that maybe you know something of.  If you apply a bleed that has 10.5 seconds of durations know it will only tick  10 times but does the debuff stay on the mob for .5 secs of time at some point at the beginning or end of its duration where it doesn't tick?  If it does then my thought was that since the stack amount dictates the number of ticks per sec, if you somehow had 10 stacks all applied simultaneously for 10.5 seconds of duration will you do an additional 5 ticks of damage during the .5 seconds?  The idea came to me because not all stacks tick independently of when they were applied.  If you have 3 stacks you see a tick every third of a second and 4 stacks every quarter of a second etc.  just some food for thought

The bleed "debuff" will stay on the target during fractions of seconds, but you will never be able to get a remaining .5 seconds to gain any extra damage. Each stack has its own duration, so you cannot "pile on" two half-second bleeds to make a 1-second bleed. Those half-seconds are always wasted. If you applied a 10.5 second bleed and then a 1.5 second bleed on top, you would still only deal 11 ticks, not 12 since each bleed stack is counted separately.

The bleed tick numbers tick constantly only for aesthetic purposes. Behind the scenes, all the damage goes off at regular intervals (1 second). So even though we see numbers constantly flying off the target, the damage is actually only being applied in one lump sum every full second.


That is some interesting information about Lingering Curse, though. If it's true, that Lingering Curse always rounds up, my 13.3-second bleed from Scepter 1 is actually a 14-second bleed. Very nice.

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#20 Wicklow

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:01 AM

I'll do some quick testing tonight to see if the bleeds from my scepter, specifically the barbed precision procs benefit from the sigil of agony, and I'll let you know one way or the other.  I'll also provide some more specifics on the build I'm currently using that perhaps you could provide some feedback on, since you seem knowledgable of the class.  Also anyone else please leave feedback as well.  Personally I think my build will allow you to do the most amount of bleed damage without using the epidemic trick after using AOE bleeds to double stack on the focus target. Not to be confused with damage per tick.

#21 Madi

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:13 AM

Now that the ascended accessories are available, which one/s do you prefer?

#22 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:54 PM

View PostMadi, on 28 February 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Now that the ascended accessories are available, which one/s do you prefer?

Right now I'm working on the math for this setup:


As always: Red = Rampager's, Blue = Carrion, Yellow = Rabid


Posted Image


Subject to change over time (and if they add more back items), but I really like that it elegantly works out to exactly 60% crit chance by just replacing 2 items, and while it lacks any boost to Crit Damage, it is an increase to Condition Damage and health over my Exotic setup. Power stays almost the same.

Problem is, it only adds 3 damage per bleed tick over full Exotic. I'd really like to see Carrion Ascended gear. I think that would help this build a lot.

I'm also toying with the idea of dropping the whole must have 60% crit chance thing to see what options that opens up, and if those options are worth it.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 28 February 2013 - 09:02 PM.

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#23 wtfus

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:12 PM

For doing high lvl fractals 30+, is it a problem trying to stay alive? I saw a full glass cannon build on youtube and i did not like the idea of getting downed a lot.

So yeah, before i transfer to this build i would like to know if staying alive in fractals 30+ is an issue. Of course i know it depends on the players awareness and skill, but like generally is it able to just stay alive for an average player?

#24 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:57 PM

View Postwtfus, on 03 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

For doing high lvl fractals 30+, is it a problem trying to stay alive? I saw a full glass cannon build on youtube and i did not like the idea of getting downed a lot.

So yeah, before i transfer to this build i would like to know if staying alive in fractals 30+ is an issue. Of course i know it depends on the players awareness and skill, but like generally is it able to just stay alive for an average player?

Unfortunately I can't answer that for you; I haven't done any fractals with this build.

This build is pretty heavy on the glass side of things, aside from the Necromancer's naturally high HP and increased Life Force pool. However, you can do whatever you like with the armor as long as you keep the Runes I've laid out. You can add more defense that way if you wish.

Some armor suggestions: Soldier's, Valkyrie, Knight's, Cavalier's, Carrion, and Rabid all add defense in the form of Toughness or Vitality, but obviously at the sacrifice of damage (either Condition or Power).

As long as you maintain at least around 50% crit chance you should be fine.

The 3 main stats that this build focuses on is Condition Damage, Precision, and Power (and some Crit Damage). Precision is really important because not only do crits do good direct damage, but also apply bleeds.

For a more defensive build you would lower one or all of those stats to add Toughness most likely. The choice is pretty much up to the user: http://wiki.guildwar...riple_attribute

It's personal preference if you want to lose Condition Damage or Power, or a bit of both.

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 03 March 2013 - 11:20 PM.

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#25 Phenn

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

To the point of condition duration over damage, I've realized in general PvE that duration makes using Epidemic easier. If I'm pulling a bunch of trash mobs with CD that hits hard, my target mob usually dies before I can get Epidemic off to spread the bleeds. If, on the other hand, the bleeds hit lower but last longer, it's easier to stack them, spread them, and keep them up on all the other mobs.

So for leveling, I ALWAYS prioritize duration over damage.

#26 Lopsang

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

Awesome build, I was going to use one from Nemesis until I stumbled upon this.

I just have one question, in your "Gear Rune and Sigils' section, the first image outlining the gear shows 75% crit damage total, however it only looks like you're getting 25% from the trait line.  Where does the other 50% come from?  Am I reading it wrong or is it just a mistake?

Again really an awesome build, can't wait to try it out.

#27 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:39 PM

View PostLopsang, on 14 March 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Awesome build, I was going to use one from Nemesis until I stumbled upon this.

I just have one question, in your "Gear Rune and Sigils' section, the first image outlining the gear shows 75% crit damage total, however it only looks like you're getting 25% from the trait line.  Where does the other 50% come from?  Am I reading it wrong or is it just a mistake?

Again really an awesome build, can't wait to try it out.

The default crit damage bonus is 50%, meaning that crits do 50% more damage than regular hits. So I just added that so I could see my "total" bonus. Like, I'm only adding 25% extra crit damage, but that causes critical hits to do 75% bonus damage.

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#28 Lopsang

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

So now that the giver's weapon set is fixed, does the +20% condition duration trump the condition damage from the rampager's weapons?

#29 Reverse Ghost

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 03:54 AM

Giver's weapons are an interesting choice.

To use them you cannot have a Staff in your rotation and still maintain +100% bleed duration, since 2-handed weapons only give a 10% bonus.

Swapping to Giver's over Rampager's means a loss in Condition Damage, Power, and to a lesser extent Precision. You gain, obviously, +20% condition duration. This means you can drop bleed / condition duration from other places because we have too much now.

1. The most obvious thing would be to use a lower-level pizza, but that also results in a Condition Damage loss. Like I said before, it's best to use the highest level pizza you can reliably afford. Plus in my current build the pizza / Spite combination gives a 2-second Fear. Very important.

2. You can drop the Hemophila trait. Reaper's Precision is probably the best choice here, but there isn't anything amazing in this slot.

3. You can lose points from the Spite line. You can drop them all and still be 5 over the max. But I really like at least 10 in there for Reaper's Might. So if you go down to 10 in Spite (also a loss in Power, remember) you end up being 15 over the max bleed duration. This frees you up to go all the way into the Soul Reaping line for an extra 5% crit damage, which is nice. You can also drop either 3 Runes of the Afflicted or the Krait (probably Krait) and either go full Afflicted or choose another combination.

4. You could forgo pizza altogether by getting +45% bleed duration from Runes, but again you lose the 2-second fear.

I haven't had a lot of time to think about this yet, but it seems like the 3rd option is the best of this bunch. Still, though, overall we're looking at not just a loss of Condition Damage (some of which can be gained back by going deeper into the Affliction runes), but also of Power and Precision. Gain of a little Crit Damage.

I'll mull it over for a few days and see what I come up with. Thanks for posting and bringing this to my attention :)

Edited by Reverse Ghost, 31 March 2013 - 03:56 AM.

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#30 Xenomortis

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:39 PM

Why do you want +100% bleed duration?
Is there some extra benefit that I'm missing, or is that the goal in itself?

I ask because the obvious change I'd make to this trait setup is to knock back Spite to 10 and put 30 into Soul Reaping for the 'Near to Death' trait (-50% DS recharge) for potentially 100% Fury uptime.
Hell, I might even suggest cutting the Spite spec completely (I am uninterested in the Might from the slow-as-hell Life Blast) and going 10 into Blood (or Death, but the traits are less useful). Of course, if you don't have any survivability issues, then you might as well keep the Spite spec.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: necromancer, build, hybrid, power, condition, bleed, duration

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