157 replies to this topic

[draxynnic]

Craywulf, on 16 January 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

I think the biggest problem here is gamers feeling the necessity of dividing PvE and PvP modes. I think the segregation is really stupid considering the genre that GW2 is. I think the MMO community has warped sense of perspective what it means to play a large scale game. Way too much time is spent trying to keep the two modes separate as if they are two different things on the same coin. Truthfully they are not all that different, and I think ArenaNet understands this better than most. WvW has a lot of PvE elements, I don't know what else ArenaNet needs to add to convince those select few to try this mode.

I think the MMO community needs to stop trying to put up these virtual walls, because it's not helping build the community at all. Those that are struggling for map completion in WvW, should just learn to accept and appreciate that it's harder for them to achieve than others might. A lot players seem to be under the impression that even something that "appears" to be basic as map completion should be easily attainable. Even if it is, not everyone is going be able to do it. I just think players need to be more patient and keep trying, eventually they will get that chance to complete WvW maps. It's just going take longer, and there's no harm in that. There's no rule that says map completion has to be achieved in limited amount of time, especially considering GW2 is a non-subscription based game.

Whether you think it's appropriate or not, there are people who just have no interest in PvP, or PvE, or, likely, pretty much any mode of any game you can think of. In this case, when you try to force PvE-exclusive players to give WvW a try by giving some largely purely PvE objective a WvW-required component, what you get is someone who grudgingly enters the zones, does the minimum they need to get their Gift of Exploration and badges, and then leaves again.

It's not helping anything. It's not helping to get them into WvW or PvP in general, and may in fact turn them off. It's not helping the people who want to genuinely play WvWvW. It's certainly not helping ArenaNet's "play how you want to play" mantra. The only people it helps is the people who get their jollies out of ganking people who didn't want to be there in the first place.

I'm all for WvWvW being a mixed PvEvP environment - but it has to be one that people go into because they want to, not because there's some achievement that is 90% pure PvE that they're forced to go into WvWvW to complete. I would also, incidentally, say that the PvE portion needs to be more tightly interwoven into the PvP, so that if, say, a group decides to attack a centaur camp or, to be more cunning about it, lure a powerful monster to attack another world's stronghold, that can have ramifications for their world's overall tactical position.

[omar316]

Gilles VI, on 16 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Read the article/blog, it clearly states for alot of stuff "early 2013", which if they use the same definition as every other english speaker, would mean the first couple of months, maximum 5 months.

Var, on 16 January 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Didn't they say this is all mapped for the first 6 months? The dateline is Jan to Jun, with the bulk coming Fed/March. The openness of the window is, obviously, to allow for something that doesn't work out in time to have a comfort zone for being fixed within some general deadline.

I doubt anything major is coming out in the February updates from this blog/article.
If fact they already outlined the next patch update.

Which basically leaves us to wait it out till the so called 6 months(June update).

With thier track record and PR BS + unfulfilled claims, I am just going to be realistic and say it will not come in 6 months.

What I'd like is a PTS to see that they are actually working on it and/or actual weekly, hell monthly updates on the progress of the updates.

I know the problems of such delvelopment. I am not being unrealistic.
If fact they saying that all those to be done in 6 months is ridiculous.

More transparency. People appreciate transparency.

[omar316]

draxynnic, on 17 January 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

I'm all for WvWvW being a mixed PvEvP environment - but it has to be one that people go into because they want to, not because there's some achievement that is 90% pure PvE that they're forced to go into WvWvW to complete. I would also, incidentally, say that the PvE portion needs to be more tightly interwoven into the PvP, so that if, say, a group decides to attack a centaur camp or, to be more cunning about it, lure a powerful monster to attack another world's stronghold, that can have ramifications for their world's overall tactical position.

AKA DaoC Darkness Falls/Warhammer City Seige before nerf/LoTD Mechanisms.

Edited by omar316, 17 January 2013 - 03:21 AM.

[Shiren]

Lordkrall, on 16 January 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

They have added additional drops to most bosses in most dungeons, including a bag of coins which give quite a few money each, they have also increased the drop rate of rare/exotic items and such, all which can be either sold (rare for around 20s each and exotics for about 1g+) or salvaged for ectos which can sell for quiet a bit aswell.

Yeah, but for AC this means about 1g per path, so around 20 minutes per path, that's 3g total, more or less depending on your rare drops (which are in no way reliable). Other dungeons run relatively quickly are CoF, HotW, maybe TA (and only certainpaths of them). The rest of the dungeons and dungeon paths are still out in the cold and long and difficult content and any gold you make from this content is competing with the gold that TP farmers are getting from flipping items (making hundreds of gold in minutes in some cases). Power traders and TP farmers are always going to be rich, but there are ways to reward playing the game more than playing the TP - hint: it involves the economy in no way. As long as it's part of the economy it plays into inflation and the rich getting richer, when was the last time you saw TP players control the dungeon armour market? What about the karma market? For as long as items are exclusive to unbound RNG gamble finds, the TP and the richest players will be favoured over the casual user base and we will be constantly pushed into TP farming to stand a reasonable chance at competing with them.

[Trei]

draxynnic, on 17 January 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Spoiler

Whether you think it's appropriate or not, there are people who just have no interest in PvP, or PvE, or, likely, pretty much any mode of any game you can think of. In this case, when you try to force PvE-exclusive players to give WvW a try by giving some largely purely PvE objective a WvW-required component, what you get is someone who grudgingly enters the zones, does the minimum they need to get their Gift of Exploration and badges, and then leaves again.

It's not helping anything. It's not helping to get them into WvW or PvP in general, and may in fact turn them off. It's not helping the people who want to genuinely play WvWvW. It's certainly not helping ArenaNet's "play how you want to play" mantra. The only people it helps is the people who get their jollies out of ganking people who didn't want to be there in the first place.

I'm all for WvWvW being a mixed PvEvP environment - but it has to be one that people go into because they want to, not because there's some achievement that is 90% pure PvE that they're forced to go into WvWvW to complete. I would also, incidentally, say that the PvE portion needs to be more tightly interwoven into the PvP, so that if, say, a group decides to attack a centaur camp or, to be more cunning about it, lure a powerful monster to attack another world's stronghold, that can have ramifications for their world's overall tactical position.

I recently just had a couple of close friends on the verge of quiting gw2 entirely because of how frustrating the spawn rates of mobs are to them, especially in Orr.

Yeah they are true blue care bear casual players with negative interest in pvp.

One of them only just realized the remaining 2% world completion had to be done in wvw, so he promptly dragged the rest of us in to help him, for no other reason than "hell I'm already at 98%, guys.... GUYS! Aw Comon!"

They didn't like pvp, they went to wvw with every intention to just map it and leave, and they did just that on their first day in wvw.

That's a month ago.

They are still in there right now, long after the one guy got his star.

In fact it's all they ever play now, they even know wvw more than I do, and I don't remember them talking about quitting again since.

[draxynnic]

Good to hear it worked for your friends, but the anecdotes I've been receiving are different, and one anecdote does not make good statistics.

Guild Wars 1 had a good system here with its (admittedly more limited) PvEvP content, namely FA and JQ. Getting the grandmaster exploration titles required mapping the areas, but otherwise there was nothing that required playing either, and full exploration then wasn't a gateway to some other item like it is now. However, there were still plenty of incentives to give it a go - they were good sources of Imperial and Balthazar faction, which could be used to purchase things which are nice to have but, importantly, could be achieved by other means (Balthazar faction) or collected purely through PvE if you so chose (Kurzick/Luxon). Add to that coins from the occasional zaishen quest and the occasional double faction weekend, and there were plenty of incentives for someone to just give it a try.

For a legendary, which is otherwise a purely PvE achievement (in fact, I wouldn't want to carry a legendary into WvWvW lest the fancy graphics make me a more obvious target, unless I was specifically looking to make a target of myself), however, you need not only full completion of the WvWvW maps, but also a double stack of Badges of Honor. On the other hand, the incentives for actually giving WvWvW a try are fairly slim - the rate of getting badges is reportedly slower than simply repeating jumping puzzles (I hate jumping puzzles as a general rule too and prefer to PvP for badges, but that's me) and rewards in general are (even) lower than general world PvE with greater risk of being defeated and copping armour repair costs along the way. When it comes to actually WvWing rather than just getting a big enough group of friends together to discourage being ganked while farming jumping puzzles while simply waiting for all of the locations of interest to be accessible through the rotations, there's little reward apart from the fun of doing it - in fact, with a run of bad luck or simply being outnumbered by the other side, it's quite possible to go backwards.

Now, your friends may have decided to stay after being pushed through the door, but most people respond better to being enticed than compelled. There's that old saying about flies, honey and vinegar, after all. I think there'd actually be a lot more interest in WvWvWing, especially proper WvWvWing rather than skulking around jumping puzzles and skill points hoping you don't get ganked on the way, if there were better rewards for playing the PvP portion of the game and continuing to play it rather than being something that you just have to do to get a legendary.

[Gilles VI]

ilr, on 16 January 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

What the f***** f*** are you talking about?
When I was playing, it only gave 20 something silver.

& Accordign to the Wiki:  http://wiki.guildwar...mbs_(story) (8 silver)
http://wiki.guildwar...bs_(explorable) *(12-26 silver).

Do you even read half the crap you type out day in day out?  I mean it's nice to know some things haven't changed but this isn't one of them

Explorable:
3 * 26s (26s end reward per path)= 72s.
3 * 4 * 15s (15s from the bag you get per boss, 4 bosses per run) = 1g80s
3 * 4 * 5s (5s from looting every boss corpse) = 60s
This is al guaranteed, so together you have almost 100% chance of getting 3g10s whatever drops you get.
And then merching all drops you get from 3 paths, mostly yields around ~1g.

Result: ~4g loot.

Funny how you keep whining on these forums, and then don't even know what you're talking about.

omar316, on 17 January 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

I doubt anything major is coming out in the February updates from this blog/article.
If fact they already outlined the next patch update.

Which basically leaves us to wait it out till the so called 6 months(June update).

With thier track record and PR BS + unfulfilled claims, I am just going to be realistic and say it will not come in 6 months.

What I'd like is a PTS to see that they are actually working on it and/or actual weekly, hell monthly updates on the progress of the updates.

I know the problems of such delvelopment. I am not being unrealistic.
If fact they saying that all those to be done in 6 months is ridiculous.

More transparency. People appreciate transparency.

Except the lines where they state 'coming in feb/march update'

[DutchAres]

FoxBat, on 15 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

WvW- specific bonuses like they said. Maybe something innate like DOAC's much lauded realm powers or whatever. That's stat progression but not better "level" gear. It could also be non-combat advantages like better siege deployment, supply holding, resistance to siege damage, repair bonuses, etc.

I dont hope it is stat progression.
Stat progression is one of the reasons most new players didnt like DAOC. The gap between a RR10 and a R3 was to big.
(not that i had that problem , played almost from day 1 and had severel high RR toons)
But i like RPs as long the stuff you can buy from them are only temporary/on very large timers.
So not a stat bonus you have all the time, but more a bonus you have to apply tactical (choose when to use it, and cant use it in every fight).

So for example more like an extra elite skills on the F10 button or something (like toolbelt slot), more powerfull then the normal elites.
But the down time is about an hour. Or/and you have to buy extra charges(with the RPs for every use of the ability)