Fenice_86, on 16 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:
Why not? It will man...
"Harder" content requires Build & Team optimization, the further you go, the more you'll need it
In the end builds and classes will be "removed" from the optimal team+build composition lvl by lvl... it's normal, it's always been like this in every game, in every situation of life, the more you go in depth the more you need specific feats, you cant change this.
The only thing you can do it's improve other classes but, than again, there will be always ONE better than OTHERS and EVERYONE will go for it
You can keep the challenge lower than these niche class specific challenges so that the advantage gained from giving the entire party a free block (aegis), or reflecting all projectiles with a utility skill (Feedback), or portalling the entire party across areas or through obstacles (portal) is minimal compared to a strength of another class.
This is something Blizzard does a lot better than ArenaNet. Sure there are classes that have strengths and things others can't do, but at the end game people weren't excluding other classes to the extent we saw in GW1 or are beginning to see in GW2.
Creating challenges which are mechanic specicif to certain classes is merely an illusion, it's not actually harder content, it just content only certain mechanics accessible to certain classes can complete. Other classes might fight it harder (or impossible) but the chosen few that can do it aren't being challenged more, they are just the only ones given the tools to perform the roles the new "challenge" requires.
Look at AC. There are multiple builds you can take into that dungeon and succeed with is pretty high. Some will be very fast and finish with relative ease, others will take a very long time and have a great deal of trouble completing the content. A player (or party) who uses a worse build with less of the optimum tools will have to play with a greater level of skill to complete the content thant a player (or party) that uses the optimum class balance and builds to complete it. The party which has the fast finish time with an easier build is the equivalent of racing on a motorcycle, whereas the party with the slow finish time with the less optimum build is the equivalent of racing on a push bike. The concept I want to get across here is that optimising builds and party composition is not increasing the skill cap required to complete nor is it creating more of a challenge, it's just pushing out viable options and, with the current design of GW2, classes. When the end game becomes this, that's going to leave a lot of people in the dark. We are all going to have to start roll certain classes because no-one else can do what they can do and only what they can do is wanted. This is why you only saw assassins (the most fragile melee class in the game) as tanks in GW1 and never saw warriors. Assassin tanks also did about 1/10th the effort and work of a "real" thank (like a warrior) because it was a gimmick that made them easily invulnerable and able to perform the roll they performed. For players who pug (or want to keep up with the economy - which is competing with other players) and want their time to be worth the same as another players time, it's not going to be an option to play any class that is not currently favoured by the meta. Any design which pushes content to become more "difficult" usually makes content less viable for play styles and more homoginised in what is run. GW1 end game PvE boils down to a handful of of builds used by every class. The game in HM is actually easier than most people's experiences of NM because of this hyper niche focus on party and build compesition, but it's where the end game and rewards are at so it's what everyone has to play.
What they end up doing when they make stuff "harder" like this is they end up creating content which rewards build crafting more than being good at your class. You could be the best great sword ranger in the game, it wouldn't matter because you don't have party wide aegis or wall of reflection. I like that classes are different but I don't like when content design favours abilities of certain classes over others. One of the strengths of GW2 was that all classes could play different roles in the group, what we are seeing with FotM difficult design (and I believe this is indicative of the direction GW2 is going in) is that the challenge is pushing out classes which fills less optimal roles, undoing all the work they did to make other classes and builds perform those roles and brings us back to the classic homogenised "trinity mentality".
I know I've said (or at least implied) that optimising your party compesition and builds means completing this content with a set up like doesn't seem to require any increase in skill and I don't believe that. I probably couldn't do (even with the same build and class as these people) the stuff these people can do, at least not if I was in that group today. Although that video doesn't seem to showcase anything that amazing (that I could see - this boss fight probably isn't where most of the challenge lies), I'm sure it was a lot of work and very challenging to get as far as they have done, regardless of the builds and classes they used to get there (although the inventory of that mesmer is another issue with current dungeon design - stealth kits, portal guns and whatever that bomb is - content was balanced without assuming access to those items and rightfully so, those items were balanced without consideration of dungeons, something is probably going to change - and one of the devs made a comment on those items which sounds like it might happen).
Getting as high as they did in FotM is certainly a challenge, well done. As much as I don't wish to hijack the thread I think it's on topic to discuss the challenge of FotM (and GW2 dungeon design in general) and what that means for the meta and general players experience.