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Which medium armor profession?


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#1 Ogodei

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

So I've got a lvl 80 warrior and guardian (enjoyed both although they sometimes felt a bit boring/easy) and an elementalist sitting at level 60 (too many buttons, too squishy and every fight seems like a lot of work. I still like the class though and will definately get this one to 80 at some point).

Now I decided my next class will be engineer, thief or ranger (also because those medium armor exotics are piling up in my bank) and generally speaking something inbetween ranger/guardian faceroll and twitchy squishy elementalist. And ranged weapons would be nice for a change. My impressions so far are:

Ranger (currently lvl 7)
I generally like the bow, but it seems pew-pewing will get very boring rather quickly. Maybe greatsword (again, after guardian and warrior *sigh*) or some other melee weapons? Pet management might get annoying?

Thief (currently lvl 5)
Just as squishy and twitchy as the elmentalist or even worse? Stealth might be fun though and dual pistols/shortbow might be just my thing ...

Engineer (currently lvl 14)
Rifle seems fun so far. Grenade spam seems annoying as hell though but to be one of the most viable and popular tactics (from reading the forums). Haven't tried the other kits much, can't quite figure out the flamethrower. Turrets are fun in some events but a bit annyoing during normal leveling.

Any advice and opinions would be much appreciated!

Edited by Ogodei, 16 January 2013 - 01:40 PM.


#2 Thaddeuz

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

Ranger
Pros :
- You got enough basic armor/hp with a ranged class to easily go full dmg build.
- Its really rewarding to see how much damage you can put from a distance
Cons :
- Short/Longbow Critical build (on of the more popular in harder content) is mainly auto-attacking and can get boring. In high level fractal you already got enough things to do to stay alive so its not boring, same things with Arah, but for the rest...
- The pet can be annoying in some situation.

Engineer
Pros :
- You are a very versatile class. You can adapt to almost everything directly in the fight and fast (1 second cooldown on kit).
- Like Ranger you got enough armor/hp to make it easier to go full dmg.
- You got kit that allow you to reach one of the highest AOE dps.
Cons :
- Except for AOE dps you are pretty much a Jack of all trades, master of nones. You can do everything but are average on all of them.

Thief
Pros :
- You got one if not the best Burst DPS of the game and overall pretty good constant dps.
- Stealth is a huge advantage in several situation to help you and your team.
Cons :
- You have weak defense. This is worst than the Elementalist since you need to kiss your enemies ass to get your highest DPS burst.
- You have a really weak defense. Already said it?? Oups, i'm just tired of rezzing thief ; ). (But really good ones are usually the ones rezzing my guardian)


Make your choice. Depending on what you want to do this is my advice. I don't say that the other profession are not good, i only point what profession i rather use for each part of the game (this is only my opinion).

Normal Dungeon : Engineer, Ranger
Fractal : Ranger
sPvP : Thief
WvW : Engineer
Questing : Any of the three

#3 CepaCepa

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 16 January 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Normal Dungeon : Engineer, Ranger
Fractal : Ranger
sPvP : Thief
WvW : Engineer
Questing : Any of the three

Very good summary, I'd just like to give my own opinion regarding this last, more subjective part. :)

Explorable Dungeons: Thief > Ranger > Engi
Reasoning: Because in explorable dungeons thieves can still make heavy use of melee combat hence do good dps, ranger can still make use of sword + warhorn weapon swap and use cat/bird, their dps will hence be much higher in these dungeons.

Fractal (higher lvl): Engi (grenades) > Thief > Ranger
Reasoning: Grenade AoE becomes very valued, thieves and rangers both have very limited aoe (shortbow and axe = mediocre, everything else = less than optimal even with piercing shot) and will have limited contribution in many fractals. However, thief has stealth, and in general better support.

sPvP: Thief
Reasoning: Not needed. :)

WvW: Thief > Engi = Ranger
Reasoning: A thief is still a thief! But engi and ranger becomes a lot more useful due to the scale of the combat as well as lack of individual attention.

Leveling: Ranger > Thief > Engi
Reasoning: Ranger levels easy, thief levels fast.

#4 Eto_Zamamai

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

Thanks for the post, I think I will make an engi or ranger after reading this, quite informative.

#5 Thaddeuz

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

View PostCepaCepa, on 16 January 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Very good summary, I'd just like to give my own opinion regarding this last, more subjective part. :)

Explorable Dungeons: Thief > Ranger > Engi
Reasoning: Because in explorable dungeons thieves can still make heavy use of melee combat hence do good dps, ranger can still make use of sword + warhorn weapon swap and use cat/bird, their dps will hence be much higher in these dungeons.

Fractal (higher lvl): Engi (grenades) > Thief > Ranger
Reasoning: Grenade AoE becomes very valued, thieves and rangers both have very limited aoe (shortbow and axe = mediocre, everything else = less than optimal even with piercing shot) and will have limited contribution in many fractals. However, thief has stealth, and in general better support.

sPvP: Thief
Reasoning: Not needed. :)

WvW: Thief > Engi = Ranger
Reasoning: A thief is still a thief! But engi and ranger becomes a lot more useful due to the scale of the combat as well as lack of individual attention.

Leveling: Ranger > Thief > Engi
Reasoning: Ranger levels easy, thief levels fast.

Your reasoning is as good. At this point its pretty much an opinion things. I base mine from experience.

- Explorable Dungeon : In theory the Thief is awesome here, but I'm sick of rezzing them just behind ennemies (failed backstab). It just seem like the majority of people being good with Thief play in sPvP and poor ones play more in PvE. (I'm talking about general population, there is exception).
- High level Fractal : My main is a Grenade Engineer (300+ hours play on it) and i prefer my Guardian, Mesmer and Ranger for that. I'm good with aiming my grenade but while dodging agony circle and mobs you can miss some and you rarely gonna use the 1500 range of your grenade in fractal.
- WvW : In small encounter i vote for theif, but in large Zerg vs Zerg i prefer my grenade Engineer spamming a rain of explosion on 20 players.
- Leveling : I don't really care, its so easy to level up. You shouldn't base your choice on that.

#6 CepaCepa

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 16 January 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

- High level Fractal : My main is a Grenade Engineer (300+ hours play on it) and i prefer my Guardian, Mesmer and Ranger for that. I'm good with aiming my grenade but while dodging agony circle and mobs you can miss some and you rarely gonna use the 1500 range of your grenade in fractal.

Oh definitely Guardian at high lvl fractals is just, too good. :) Followed by mesmers, and then elementalist and perhaps warriors (the GOOD ones). Due to the large health pool, large numbers, and one-hitter style of the mobs in later fractals, high aoe damage (preferably ranged) would be very useful, that means basically either elementalist or grenadier engi, having one in your team makes things a lot easier. For example: urban battleground mobs, cliffside events, underwater kraits, Grawl final boss, while any professions can take care of those in early levels, in later levels (40+) having an aoe specialist vs not having one makes a big difference. Also, engi makes Asura fractal a lot easier with hitting harpies below their platforms as well as the skipping.

And I have to say, having played 600+ fractals, at 40+ a group with 2+ thieves or 2+ rangers in it often makes things very, very difficult. A GOOD ranger and/or thief can hold his own provided he's the only ranger/thief in the group, but a mediocre one (doesn't even need to be bad, just mediocre) just provides too little, especially ranger. One in a group is OK, 2 in a group is too much, they're taking the spot of potentially a guardian/mesmer/elementalist. You may say "well just get 2 guardians if you have 2 rangers to balance out the utilities", but then you'd have too little aoe dps --- Think grawl final boss, even with 2 guardians chaining projectile reflects, you just can't kill things fast enough. Unless, the last spot is an elementalist or grenadier, AND all the players are very good.

My engi is the first of my characters to reach 40+ fractal way-back-when, and I think any engi who can manage to grenade all the way to higher level fractals has enough awareness/skill already, you know, since your fingers need to have extra strength to run/aim/throw/dodge at the same time with 1 second reaction window. If you've managed to succeed glass cannoning all the way to high levels, you should be good enough for the levels after that. So between a random ranger and a random engi applying to my group, I'd pick the engi for sure, due not only to the things that they can do but also the "security factor" regarding awareness/skill. Well, but of course, you can't really be choosy in higher levels, most of the time you just cross your fingers and hope that the ranger in your group knows what an axe is... :(

#7 Thaddeuz

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostCepaCepa, on 16 January 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Oh definitely Guardian at high lvl fractals is just, too good. :) Followed by mesmers, and then elementalist and perhaps warriors (the GOOD ones). Due to the large health pool, large numbers, and one-hitter style of the mobs in later fractals, high aoe damage (preferably ranged) would be very useful, that means basically either elementalist or grenadier engi, having one in your team makes things a lot easier. For example: urban battleground mobs, cliffside events, underwater kraits, Grawl final boss, while any professions can take care of those in early levels, in later levels (40+) having an aoe specialist vs not having one makes a big difference. Also, engi makes Asura fractal a lot easier with hitting harpies below their platforms as well as the skipping.

And I have to say, having played 600+ fractals, at 40+ a group with 2+ thieves or 2+ rangers in it often makes things very, very difficult. A GOOD ranger and/or thief can hold his own provided he's the only ranger/thief in the group, but a mediocre one (doesn't even need to be bad, just mediocre) just provides too little, especially ranger. One in a group is OK, 2 in a group is too much, they're taking the spot of potentially a guardian/mesmer/elementalist. You may say "well just get 2 guardians if you have 2 rangers to balance out the utilities", but then you'd have too little aoe dps --- Think grawl final boss, even with 2 guardians chaining projectile reflects, you just can't kill things fast enough. Unless, the last spot is an elementalist or grenadier, AND all the players are very good.

My engi is the first of my characters to reach 40+ fractal way-back-when, and I think any engi who can manage to grenade all the way to higher level fractals has enough awareness/skill already, you know, since your fingers need to have extra strength to run/aim/throw/dodge at the same time with 1 second reaction window. If you've managed to succeed glass cannoning all the way to high levels, you should be good enough for the levels after that. So between a random ranger and a random engi applying to my group, I'd pick the engi for sure, due not only to the things that they can do but also the "security factor" regarding awareness/skill. Well, but of course, you can't really be choosy in higher levels, most of the time you just cross your fingers and hope that the ranger in your group knows what an axe is... :(

The thing that make me hesitate to take my Engineer into the journey to high level fractal is because i fear that i will be tired WAY faster. If the ranger damage is pretty much afk, the Grenade Engineer one is hard on finger and need good harder concentration. If you hare in normal dungeon, that's ok. In fractal, with all the surrounding that already need your attention, i fear to make more mistake.  But maybe its just in my head ;).

For the AOE problem, your right.

#8 Reaper3354

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

As far as I've played, I'd pick Ranger. Now, mind you, this is all my personal opinion, so take it how you will.


As far as Engineer goes, it was good, but for me grew stale very quickly. There was too much flexibility for my preferences. Yowards the end of my Engineer I was simply running Pistol/Shield and Elixir Throwing and that was it. I wasn't using kits, I wasn't spamming nades or kiting bombs, Pistol/Shield was as good as it got. Which for me seemed pointless.




As for Thief, thieves can be a lot of fun. Stealth, to me, isn't as great as one might make it out to be. Stealth is fun, but not as awesome as it could have been. The other mechanics make Thief a pretty fun class to play, however their squishiness can really take the edge off. My best advice for a thief is either stay ranged, or think Hit and Run tactics for best survival.


Rangers, however, in my opinion, are the cream of the crop. They have more survival than a thief, a plethora of weapon choice and combinations to use, they can pack a serious wallop, and, in response to the OPs concerns, Pets really don't need management. I don't ever manage my pets, and they still seem to get on fine without me. As for the melee weapons, I say try them all. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses, but I personally prefer Sword/Torch with it.

Some might groan at this, as Sword has an auto-attack that lunges you towards your enemy, which most simple minded individuals see as a downfall. It's really not. Played/used smartly, the Swords auto-attack isn't anything world breaking, for me it's not even a bother. It can be used to get in close extremely fast, and coupled with smart play, never really hinders getting back out either.

As for the other weapons, I'd detail but I've been using Sword/Torch for so long I don't even remember much about the others except that Greatsword hits hard and has a cool lunge, and the Axe mains auto-attack can get you into trouble when you don't want it to with its inherent bounce between up to 3 targets. Auto-pilot and Axes don't go well together xD

#9 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:21 AM

My ranger is level 80 and I have yet to find any genuine use for it.  Damage is crap, pet zergtanking doesn't really do a whole lot, and your survivability isn't even that good even at range, compared to a guardian or engineer.  The one advantage is that they are very easy to play, you basically just run around auto-attacking at range while your pet goes in for melee.  It's far from optimal though, you do a fraction of what a guardian or engineer could do at the same distance.

#10 Ogodei

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

Thanks for all the advice! Although I decided to sell/salvage the armor and am playing a mesmer now, hah! (And I'm having a blast so far.) ;-)




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