178 replies to this topic

[Ritualist]

It's interesting how we have a very similar problem in GW2 as we had in GW1: people refuse to play the game the way A.Net designed it (in GW1, the endgame was supposed to be PvP yet we simply refused to leave PvE, while in GW2, the endgame was supposed to be simply replaying the game and, once again, we refuse to play that way) and in both cases A.net seems to have panicked and incorporated gear-grind as the answer to this issue, despite the fact that BOTH games are build on the idea of being pretty anti-gear-grind.
So I think we are no longer in the situation where the blame falls onto the players for demanding shit, it rather falls onto the devs for listening to our dumb ideas and incorporating them into the game. It once again shows that A.Net lucks into great things and they simply do not understand what makes those things great.

[Sundreamer]

i wish they would have sticked to their promises...now they there's ascended gear and it's a boner-killer imo -.- i stopped doing fractions after lvl 12 or so cause its not worth it

[Rezo]

Protoss, on 02 February 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

It's interesting how we have a very similar problem in GW2 as we had in GW1: people refuse to play the game the way A.Net designed it (in GW1, the endgame was supposed to be PvP yet we simply refused to leave PvE, while in GW2, the endgame was supposed to be simply replaying the game and, once again, we refuse to play that way) and in both cases A.net seems to have panicked and incorporated gear-grind as the answer to this issue, despite the fact that BOTH games are build on the idea of being pretty anti-gear-grind.
So I think we are no longer in the situation where the blame falls onto the players for demanding shit, it rather falls onto the devs for listening to our dumb ideas and incorporating them into the game. It once again shows that A.Net lucks into great things and they simply do not understand what makes those things great.

You are aware  I suppose of this "crazy" idea that at the end players are right, not devs? Simply because it is players who pay for the game and play the game, and if any specific mmo game is not what people want to play then this game will be forgotten.

Sundreamer, on 02 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

i wish they would have sticked to their promises...now they there's ascended gear and it's a boner-killer imo -.- i stopped doing fractions after lvl 12 or so cause its not worth it

First they should be able to fulfil ALL promises they made.

[Ritualist]

Rezo, on 02 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

You are aware  I suppose of this "crazy" idea that at the end players are right, not devs? Simply because it is players who pay for the game and play the game, and if any specific mmo game is not what people want to play then this game will be forgotten.

There's a difference between incorporating ideas that are in line with the design of the game and incorporating ideas that go against it. GW games try to sit on too many chairs at the same time - and it seems like A.Net isn't capable enough to cater to every group that they want to cater to without pissing off other groups in the process.

Edited by Protoss, 02 February 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Jason Seven]

I absolutely agree. Cosmetic rewards are not enough at all. As things are right now, there's absolutely no incentive to play this game at all. There's no rewards that justify the time spent playing. ArenaNet completely missed the point when they tried to be different with their game which cost them a fortune. Appealing to a very tiny, niche crowd can only get you so far. Adding Ascended gear was the very first step in the right direction but not making a full set of it available from the start is where they went wrong. There needs to be an everlasting supply of newer, better gear in an MMORPG, otherwise it will fail for trying to divert from a successful formula. The vast majority, the core playerbase of GW2, badly wants more gear progression and a proper treadmill along with a ton of mounts. This is what will please us, what will ensure a huge, steady income for ArenaNet.

[Ojikes]

If you want a gear grind, go to WoW, or any of the other MMO's

What they can do is implement player housing and the like and make you get stuff for your house.

[Eliirae]

Arquenya, on 02 February 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

So people need extrinsic rewards, "carrots", like gold, better stats and cosmetics and the like.

Nope, I'm not saying any of that which I removed from your quote.  I'm saying exactly what I'm quoting you on: If you feel like you NEED a reward to justify your playing a game, then that's the opposite of what GW2 is trying to get at.  Once people start thinking that they NEED to be rewarded for something that was once fun, it becomes a job.  Playing a game solely for the endgame, or for better loot etc turns the game into a job.

But the reason they felt like they needed to be rewarded was because the game stopped being fun, right?  No.  The entire idea of deserving a reward is the reason why fun just disappears all together.

And therein lies the idea that people aren't ready.  They aren't ready to play a game because it can be a fun little time waster, because they want to play a game to be rewarded with epic lewt, which GW2 doesn't deliver.

Which is I suppose why someone like me, who never really reached the endgames of WoW and raiding and all that, is able to enjoy the game even if I happen to run the same event chains multiple times, sometimes in a row:  Because I never adopted the mindset that the game needed to reward me to justify why I'm playing it.

Edited by Eliirae, 02 February 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[DeConstruct]

The main problem is it's hard to make a game progressive and cosmetic at the same time. Appearance is subjective so making different levels of cosmetic desirability is entirely impossible. Me personally, I've been happy with the level 50 Gladiator set for my warrior. This put me in quite the pickle when it came to endgame progression.

What the game NEEDS is trophies. Trophies you can display for having tackled hard content. Titles arent doing the trick because they dont even show unless you select a target.

It's not what I envisioned for the game though. I thought the carrot on the stick would be the increasingly hard dynamic content. I thought Orr would be a battle over points like WvW was supposed to be. But even WvW itself disappointed on that front.
You see people going through level after level of something as simple as Angry Birds purely because of the challenge. GW2 just doesn't provide it.

[Arquenya]

Eliirae, on 02 February 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Nope, I'm not saying any of that which I removed from your quote.  I'm saying exactly what I'm quoting you on: If you feel like you NEED a reward to justify your playing a game, then that's the opposite of what GW2 is trying to get at.  Once people start thinking that they NEED to be rewarded for something that was once fun, it becomes a job.  Playing a game solely for the endgame, or for better loot etc turns the game into a job.

But the reason they felt like they needed to be rewarded was because the game stopped being fun, right?  No.  The entire idea of deserving a reward is the reason why fun just disappears all together.

And therein lies the idea that people aren't ready.  They aren't ready to play a game because it can be a fun little time waster, because they want to play a game to be rewarded with epic lewt, which GW2 doesn't deliver.

Which is I suppose why someone like me, who never really reached the endgames of WoW and raiding and all that, is able to enjoy the game even if I happen to run the same event chains multiple times, sometimes in a row:  Because I never adopted the mindset that the game needed to reward me to justify why I'm playing it.

You're basically the same as anyone else: you want rewards, you just find intrinsic rewards in doing whatever you do. It's just that people may find reading a book more rewarding than repeating stuff in a game once they've done it once. No need to call them derogatively "not ready for it" or "having the wrong mindset" because of that.

Edited by Arquenya, 03 February 2013 - 12:21 AM.

[asbasb]

DeConstruct, on 02 February 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

The main problem is it's hard to make a game progressive and cosmetic at the same time.

I wouldn't think so. Cosmetics are just a distinct visual appearance, which may or may not hard to get. You can have 100 gear tears, each of which with unique cosmetics, and it still would be very much a progressive reward system. If you meant that you can't have an MMO with both gear progression and horizontal progression, you are correct. Stats are always worth more than a skin, even if the stats are not needed to complete game content, and even to most players who naturally prefer skins. Stat progression always overrides cosmetic progression, because the ratio of players who value stats over skins is pretty much always a lot higher. Blame the competitive nature of people.

Interestingly, you actually can have some sort of skin progression if you are using multiple versions of the same basic skin, with each tier more elaborate and pompous. GW1 did that to some extent.

Spoiler

They even did it very rarely with weapon skins.

Spoiler

They never went anywhere with the concept, but then again, GW1 was their first game and they had to scramble in order to create PvE endgame content.

IMO, the level and never changing stat cap was a relic from when they released the first campaign, expecting players to transition into PvP while making sure everybody is at cap to make it balanced and competitive. PvE players who played and liked GW because of the stagnant gear and level progression were never planned to be a target demographic, but hey, you take what you can get. It's fascinating to look at how things turned out to be, and how ANet thinks of its first game.

[dzanikken]

Arquenya, on 03 February 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

You're basically the same as anyone else: you want rewards, you just find intrinsic rewards in doing whatever you do. It's just that people may find reading a book more rewarding than repeating stuff in a game once they've done it once. No need to call them derogatively "not ready for it" or "having the wrong mindset" because of that.

Not true. The basic value for having a different mindset is more rewarding this way. Enjoying the game for what it is and getting rewarded accordingly or grinding relentlessly for what you think you need to award yourself with is going to make for a completely different experience. True, some might actually enjoy farming - you meet people, you bond, you have fun, but even that eventually runs its course.

And it's not derogatory - it's just what it is, a certain mindset and an incentive. And it's analogical to anything you might set yourself up to do in life in general. It's the approach that makes all the difference.

[Red Sonya]

Actually what happened was Anet built a game around those that couldn't keep up, those that didnt' want to keep up and those that whined all the time on the forums about not being able to keep up. What they found was both in GW1 and GW2 now is there's not enough of them hanging aroound (because they are like rpg gamers they play a game and then go onto something else) to make any REAL money off of. Anet wants the STANDARD MMO players to play their games. Soooooooooooooo to draw those types in and keep the ones they already have (because of no monthly fees....I'm one of those) they introduce GRIND and VERTICAL PROGRESSION to a degree. Since I now can do things to be BETTER than you and LOOK better than you because I can GRIND (and you can't haha) I don't mind playing it so much, but, would prefer more vertical grind of phat lewt and more powerful weapons so I can STOMP you in PVP easier. That's just life really unless you're just a socialist/communist type. Most people want the ability to GROW and become MORE than what they are. Seems to be that way in real life I don't see why it should be shunned in MMO's. I know in real life I always want more prettier and better things....like that 80" LED/LCD TV or a hot chick with large breasts by my side and the red corvette and anything I want to eat on a daily basis. Being that that's what I want I'm willing to GRIND for it to get it.....so once again don't see why that should be shunned in an MMO UNLESS you're just the LAZY BUM who sits and draws unemployment for as long as you can off of tax payers (talking about extended and emergency they just approved for another year) or the type that uses WELFARE and FOOD STAMPS so you can sit on your lazy butt playing games all your life. That's what non-grind MMO's are like and for....the LAZY of this world.

[Veji]

Me personally, i think looking badass while having fun is pretty much a win/win for me.  Speaking of which, preferences and opinions are just that.  You're free to'm, just don't be that guy who walks into Taco Bell and starts talkin about how great Burger King is.

[Vapaaherra]

What happened to all that exploring, experiencing stories, learning and being creative to solve some puzzle or outplaying your opponent? That kind of stuff actually could develop your personality and skills in real life too. Instead there is some kind of lust for elitism because there has to be ways to gain absolute advantages to character powers and the easiest way to divide players is to add content which requires time and motivation for grinding. That is because many have jobs, school, families, other duties or simpy find grinding too boring.

Guild Wars 2 was a game where only player skills made the difference. Now it is going to be a grinding game just like many other MMOs.

[Red Sonya]

Protoss, on 02 February 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

There's a difference between incorporating ideas that are in line with the design of the game and incorporating ideas that go against it. GW games try to sit on too many chairs at the same time - and it seems like A.Net isn't capable enough to cater to every group that they want to cater to without pissing off other groups in the process.

This is why they will cater to the group(s) that will give them the most money in the long term. It's part of marketing ploy and hype. They make no guarantees the game will remain as the origional design (read the EULA) and thus they can get a large sum of money from those that like the origional idea, then as the game progresses and the play and go's have gone then they will cater to another type of player the one that likes the "carrot in front of the horse". Guild Wars 1 was a prime example of this type of ploy and hype and they made a nice profit off of it and I believe over 6 million sales. In the end the "majority" is the one who will rule the progress and changes of the game. The ones that will keep playing and paying for those "DLC" tidbits they offer. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't add "heroes" at some point in the game either.

Vapaaherra, on 07 February 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

What happened to all that exploring, experiencing stories, learning and being creative to solve some puzzle or outplaying your opponent? That kind of stuff actually could develop your personality and skills in real life too. Instead there is some kind of lust for elitism because there has to be ways to gain absolute advantages to character powers and the easiest way to divide players is to add content which requires time and motivation for grinding. That is because many have jobs, school, families, other duties or simpy find grinding too boring.

Guild Wars 2 was a game where only player skills made the difference. Now it is going to be a grinding game just like many other MMOs.

Hurray for "change"!

[Hellspawn2323]

MisterJaguar25, on 24 January 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

You should probably ask yourself, if the game you're playing does not have enough replayability (as in, content that is fun enough for you to keep playing it multiple times without tiring) to keep you entertained without a gear treadmill, is the game really worth your time and money? The mentality that you need a stat treadmill to enjoy a game is a peculiar one in my opinion. Video games are designed around being fun, something that's an entertaining experience (at least the vast majority of the time) from begging to end, not something you do just to get rewards to feel "awesome". I've actually spoken to a guildy years ago during WOTLK I believe in a raid guild I was in who told me the only reason to play WoW is to get gear. That's it. I also read a forum post on the official WoW forums some time ago where a WoW player outright said that the content is "garbage" or something along those lines, and that the gear is why he plays. He forces himself through game content that he finds unenjoyable to just to get better gear. That just boggles my mind.

My point is, video games are meant to be played because you actually enjoy the game itself, not only a reward that it gives you, but the actual freaking gameplay is enjoyable. Sure, you can play for rewards, like collectables, achievements, but shouldn't you have an enjoyable time doing it? It's like a job, something you don't really enjoy (at least not enough to do it x amount of hours per week without a paycheck) that you do only because you get rewarded for doing it, and if they stopped giving you your reward, you'd stop doing it. Why? Because you don't truly enjoy it, or else they wouldn't need to give you an incentive to do it, you'd just do it because you like doing it. Like art, I like to draw, I could have a job as an artist, and if they stopped paying me, I'd still keep drawing. Why? Because I actually like drawing, and I don't need a bloody incentive to do something I enjoy. I do it because I actually like doing it for the pure sake of doing it.


If the game itself is not enjoyable enough for you to play simply for that reason alone, and you need some meaningless incentive to keep playing the game, it's either not a good game, or you've simply burned out from it and need to give it a break (perhaps a permanent one).

Name one game that you play for fun and not for the challenge or powerups. Because im sorry to say but GW2 is a treadmill system from level 1-80 is a treadmill of gaining power and replacing gear. its just thats where the games fun ends you hit max level and that it no more progression, sorry but the numbers dont like GW2 is almost a ghost town you cant win this arguement.

Edited by Hellspawn2323, 13 February 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Specialz]

Hellspawn2323, on 13 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Name one game that you play for fun and not for the challenge or powerups. Because im sorry to say but GW2 is a treadmill system from level 1-80 is a treadmill of gaining power and replacing gear. its just thats where the games fun ends you hit max level and that it no more progression, sorry but the numbers dont like GW2 is almost a ghost town you cant win this arguement.

Every MMO is a treadmill, so i am not exactly sure what you were expecting. Actually, that is wrong, every mmo can be a treadmill if you choose to make it that way and if you choose to play a game for the sake of playing. A game stops being a game when you play to feel rewarded, if you don't find a nature joy in simply logging in to a game, maybe you should consider finding something else. It isn't like the early 2000s when we had very few choices, now we have so many games that might appeal to you (i don't actually believe that because they are certain types that will always turn a game into a treadmill).

[Shiren]

I only feel free to do what I want and enjoy what I want in the game when I've completed by BiS journey. If I am wearing greens I feel pressured to run dungeons or grind dailies to get those ascended rings and exotics. The higher the ceiling gets, the further away from enjoying the game I get. I enjoyed playing the game even after I had all the best gear on my ranger. They introduced ascended gear (and the huge grind involved to get it) and I feel a constant pressure to do my daily fractal, do my daily laurel. I no longer log in and do what I want to do for as long as I want to do it, I keep having to do more and more stuff I wasn't going to do, didn't want to do, just to keep up with the new tiers.

I had no problems playing the game after I had my BiS gear. I was built and I was free to explore the world, help people, do DEs, uncover hidden areas, complete JPs and try and immerse myself in the lore and story of this world. Whenever they raise the ceiling on BiS gear, if I'm not doing something which works towards the new gear, I feel like my time is wasted. It's become even worse where I feel like if I don't log in each day, I'm missing out on a valuable resource, something which I can't get back no matter how much I play the next day.

I was in the middle of exploring the world and really experiencing this game and the world they had crafted when ArenaNet introduced ascended gear. My game time then shifted towards grinding away at this daily dungeon to level up, then to RNG gamble on rings, then grind out daily tokens. Meanwhile I felt like I couldn't explore or do other dungeons any more. It didn't progress my gear acquisition and my time is limited, so I stuck to dailies. Now that I've gotten my rings I don't feel like I can stand to do it again on my alts (I have five 80s) because the grind was too much, I don't play them much any more and I've lost all incentive to continue exploring the world. There was just too much grind introduced with this new tier and everything else just doesn't contribute towards it. I had some cosmetic goals I was meeting and working towards, but now I just don't care. So little in the game is rewarding (if it's not dailies, it's not worth ascended gear) and it takes too long to complete things that I can't bear to do it on alts nor do I feel like I have time to enjoy doing whatever it was I enjoyed doing in the game outside of the daily hoop.

[Resolve]

kalendraf, on 16 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

My biggest problem with GW2's current cosmetic rewards (specifically armor skins) is that there aren't any of them that I find appealing.  In GW1, there were several armor skins that I found attractive and I put in the necessary work to get all of them that I wanted.  Unfortunately, most of the GW2 armor stylings seem to be intended for those players with a trenchcoat and buttcape fetish, and the tiny number of alternatives don't include any styles I like.

In terms of the "carrot" concept, I'd be perfectly happy to do the work to chase a tasty carrot if there was actually a tasty carrot for me to chase.  Right now, all I'm seeing (and smelling) is an orange piece of rotting vegetable matter hanging on a string, and I have no desire to get any closer to it.

This is pretty much what I was going to post. All they need to do is chuck some of those higher tier weapons (The guardian/ele weapons etc) into chests or some form of token reward and my eagerness to do dungeons would skyrocket.

Also make some better looking armours and sprinkle them throughout the game.

[MisterJaguar25]

Hellspawn2323, on 13 February 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Name one game that you play for fun and not for the challenge or powerups.

Every single game I've ever enjoyed, like Dead Space 1 and 2 (and so far 3). Fear 2 is a blast also, and Skyrim. Mario 3d Land, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Resident Evil DS, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: Revelations, the list goes on. The entire point of a video game is to entertain you, however that may be.

Edited by MisterJaguar25, 15 February 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Dasviidonja]

Ojikes, on 02 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

If you want a gear grind, go to WoW, or any of the other MMO's

What they can do is implement player housing and the like and make you get stuff for your house.

Hey GW2Guru how come you have a Like This checkbox but not a Dislike This one? Cause I don't likes this one.

THe problem I see with a cosmetics game is well I'm a man and well real men don't wear makeup so I don't need or require cosmetics. It would seem though these developers are gurly gurl type ones and their idea of cosmetics for a game like this is gurly gurl.

Now if you really want to make it an all around cosmetic game then allow me to get armor that has say cutoff tank tops in it, blue jeans with holes in them, sneakers and flip flops, sunglasses and colorful spiked hairdo's. Don't make me look like my mom and dad of old MMO games let me be free to be me in this game in my attire. I think Anarchy Online did this best in allowing players to buy 100's of different outfits in the fashion shops and believe you me there were some hilarious ones that I saw dressed up from them. You haven't laughed until you've seen a Bouncer type dude in a Bikini.

Edited by Dasviidonja, 15 February 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[BartenderMan]

Dasviidonja, on 15 February 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

Hey GW2Guru how come you have a Like This checkbox but not a Dislike This one? Cause I don't likes this one.

THe problem I see with a cosmetics game is well I'm a man and well real men don't wear makeup so I don't need or require cosmetics. It would seem though these developers are gurly gurl type ones and their idea of cosmetics for a game like this is gurly gurl.

Now if you really want to make it an all around cosmetic game then allow me to get armor that has say cutoff tank tops in it, blue jeans with holes in them, sneakers and flip flops, sunglasses and colorful spiked hairdo's. Don't make me look like my mom and dad of old MMO games let me be free to be me in this game in my attire. I think Anarchy Online did this best in allowing players to buy 100's of different outfits in the fashion shops and believe you me there were some hilarious ones that I saw dressed up from them. You haven't laughed until you've seen a Bouncer type dude in a Bikini.

So you want to see a big dude in a bikini. So manly...

On a more serious note: cosmetics as an endgame isn't a bad thing, but cosmetics alone is. Everybody likes to look cool/sexy/funny, but we need to do something while looking cool/sexy/funny. WvW is kind of an endgame, but it's flawed and unrewarding (still fun with friends).

I think they're going in a good direction by making lower level and barely visited areas more appealing. It allows you to flaunt what you have to newer players and get them excited for the endgame while also rewarding you for being there.

Arquenya, on 03 February 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

You're basically the same as anyone else: you want rewards, you just find intrinsic rewards in doing whatever you do. It's just that people may find reading a book more rewarding than repeating stuff in a game once they've done it once. No need to call them derogatively "not ready for it" or "having the wrong mindset" because of that.

Everybody wants rewards. These rewards could be something official, like laurels or a legendary, or they could be personal rewards, like discovering a hidden area or looking good. Right now the game is appealing more to those who are setting their own goals (the latter) and is a little lacking in official rewards. Ascended gear is a step in the right direction, but right now I personally want better rewards for some of the bigger dynamic events and possibly jumping puzzles (reward chests have horrible loot).

Give them time. This game is only half a year old (since official release). It took WoW over 8 years to get to where it is now.

[Dasviidonja]

Quote

So you want to see a big dude in a bikini. So manly...

Wanting to see something and laughing at it is two different things in case you didn't know bucko.

[Winch]

Now my chosen legendary's precursor is around 550g, the materials for it are around 500 again + 200g for stuff like recipes and clovers. that's like 1250gs. If I can devote 8 hours, every single day from my free time to play GW2, that makes it a little less than a 100 days to craft my legendary.
-Realistic for a weapon skin? No.
-Do I enjoy the content? No. At least not when everything has been done at least 50 times now,
-Can I substitute these for something else and still progress towards it? No, but god I'd love to
-Can I do events with random ppl to get cash  "fast". No.
-Do I like other skins, requiring less grind?   I already have those. (it's actually not many but that's a different story)

If I play the game normally (like 2-3 hours a day), and do stuff I like (jumping puzzles, doing some random stuff with my friends) I don't feel rewarded, as quite frankly, I'm not. One jumping puzzle that takes like 10-15 minutes (hello griffonrook) to complete rewards me with 5s worth of crap, which was the inital traveling fee to the nearest waypoint and back.

My thoughts: make rewards for content based on time requiring to complete given activity. a CoF p1 run takes about 10 minutes, and nets me around 50s. Said jumping puzzle takes also 10 minutes to complete, give me the same, hell, even half of it and then I can do what I really like in this game.

Edited by Winch, 15 February 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[cyclopsje]

I agree with above post. Wp cost is anoying compared to reward. Sometimes you get less then it cost you to wp back and forward. The game doesnt reward players. Iwaited so many years for this game. I like it but not enough to keep myself playing. While gw1 kept me playing 5 years. Sad thing is that Aion did a better job to keep me playing XD

Edited by cyclopsje, 15 February 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[Hellspawn2323]

MisterJaguar25, on 15 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Every single game I've ever enjoyed, like Dead Space 1 and 2 (and so far 3). Fear 2 is a blast also, and Skyrim. Mario 3d Land, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Resident Evil DS, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: Revelations, the list goes on. The entire point of a video game is to entertain you, however that may be.

Those games have power ups and Resident evil / syrim and dead space had amazing story you play through GW2 story was rubbish and boring.

[Dasviidonja]

That's ok not too long from now the MMO to change the way we play MMO's forever is coming soon
http://pc.gamespy.co.../1227411p1.html

We'll finally get the kind of game we want and not run to the end of the shoebox and remain there forever once we get there like so many other MMO's do even GW2. I've been asking for this type of game for a decade now. It's finally coming and everyone who's anyone will be there.

[asbasb]

Dasviidonja, on 16 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

We'll finally get the kind of game we want and not run to the end of the shoebox and remain there forever once we get there like so many other MMO's do even GW2. I've been asking for this type of game for a decade now. It's finally coming and everyone who's anyone will be there.

I wish them good luck and I hope they can retain a lot of players, but after GW2 I won't trust another MMO developer in good conscience for a while.

[fatality39]

This game should be played one time through then move on.  There's no depth and it's the most bland game I've ever played.