82 replies to this topic

[lmaonade]

http://www.reddit.co...stream_summary/

for those who either missed it or don't follow reddit a lot

any thoughts? I think some of it is utter bullshit but eh

[Darkobra]

Quote

• Incoming AoE ability balancing (nerf) - they are too effective right now
  
• Class balance to bring up the weaker weapons/traits, more viable builds, and reduce AoE effectiveness.

They are really keen on screwing over elementalists lately.

Edited by Darkobra, 17 January 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Barbieslayer]

Darkobra, on 17 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

They are really keen on screwing over elementalists lately.

What makes you think they aren't just going to nerf the Warriors longbow?  Everyone knows it's the best way to screw up a stacked enemy in WvW.

[MisterB]

Reducing AoE effectiveness sounds like a really good way to make this game very boring in PvE. It's already limited to just 5 targets.  Grenades, bombs, and kit swapping are why I play my engineer. Apparently, I'm supposed to be wielding a wrench and crowbar or something. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, and I'll wait to see what they actually do.

Edited by MisterB, 17 January 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[Reverse Ghost]

I just really really hope the AoE "nerf" doesn't kill PvE. I know they always want to make these changes across all game modes, but I think this situation is a prime example of when to make changes that apply only to PvP and WvW.

[MisterB]

Reverse Ghost, on 17 January 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

I think this situation is a prime example of when to make changes that apply only to PvP and WvW.

While talking about reducing AoE, they mentioned WvW and dungeons as two game modes(The other was PvP.) where they feel AoE is too effective. WvW shares the same skills as PvE, and they specifically mentioned dungeons, so this proposed AoE change will affect PvE.

Edited by MisterB, 17 January 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[Bloggi]

Darkobra, on 17 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

They are really keen on screwing over elementalists lately.

LOL Time for me to change for another 'main'. Again.

Barbieslayer, on 17 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

What makes you think they aren't just going to nerf the Warriors longbow?  Everyone knows it's the best way to screw up a stacked enemy in WvW.

Funny that you mentioned the longbow. At least in PvE I see so few warriors using the longbow that I would wonder if it were even available as a weapon choice to the warrior. I enjoy using the longbow, much more than the rifle. Depending on the changes (if any), could we then see even less use of the longbow in PvE?

Edited by Xekk, 17 January 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Arewn]

I don't use twitch much so maybe I'm mistaken... but did it say there was 1 801 073 (close to 2 million) live stream viewers sometime during the 2 o'clock segment? (I wasn't around for the first part)
I took a screen shot for later reference.

[Wifflebottom]

It think the AoE nerf isn't specifically targeting Eles but everything. Shortbow thief, nade Engie, Necro wells, and maybe the AoE power of mesmer shatters. Though I don't doubt it would effect Eles the most: AoE is like their thing. I hope instead of nerfing everything so that all options are equally sucky I hope they actually buff the crap skills and traits rather than just Molyeneux-ing for the stream.

[Lordkrall]

They actually did talk a bit more about AoE in part 2. And they stated quite clearly that it is possible that it might NOT be nerfing the AoE skills, but rather add new attributes to specific mobs like reduced damage from AoE and such.

[Fernling306]

Arewn, on 17 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I don't use twitch much so maybe I'm mistaken... but did it say there was 1 801 073 (close to 2 million) live stream viewers sometime during the 2 o'clock segment? (I wasn't around for the first part)
I took a screen shot for later reference.

no, it peaked around 5k viewers. The 1.8 million number was the total amount of viewers to ever visit GW2 live page.
You can go into the page and see that it is still near the same number with nothing going on.

Edited by Fernling306, 17 January 2013 - 10:54 PM.

[Darkobra]

Barbieslayer, on 17 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

What makes you think they aren't just going to nerf the Warriors longbow?  Everyone knows it's the best way to screw up a stacked enemy in WvW.

I'm a gambling man. And I like money. So how much are you willing to wager? Of course the history of ArenaNet since the betas of GW2 is in my favour. Their goal is ALL AoE being changed. All classes that use AoE will be affected by this but an elementalist that uses a staff is going to be very hurt by the changes.

[TGIFrisbie]

Wifflebottom, on 17 January 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

It think the AoE nerf isn't specifically targeting Eles but everything. <snip> Necro wells

You must be joking.

[Arewn]

Fernling306, on 17 January 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

no, it peaked around 5k viewers. The 1.8 million number was the total amount of viewers to ever visit GW2 live page.
You can go into the page and see that it is still near the same number with nothing going on.

Ok, that makes ALOT more sense. 1.8 mil viewers on a stream that had a couples days notice during a week day for a game that has 3mil copies sold would be absurd.

[Malganis]

Quote

• Multiple phase change for the dungeons – first build – remove the idea of rez rushing (i.e. only way to beat some of the difficult encounters at the moment is to have dead players run back from nearby waypoints while players that are alive kite the mobs)
  
• You can no longer able to rez (I think he meant waypoint here) if someone in dungeon is in combat

• Ok this part just stinks.   I'm supposed to sit there and watch my teammates get beaten on by a boss because I screwed up, got killed, and now cannot waypoint back and continue helping them?   Yuck!

[Kaiarra]

Well it kind of sucks to have them actually saying 'great area of effect damage' is part of the intended class design for Elementalists one minute, then 'oh btw we're going to nerf AoE' the next...

Quote

We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elementalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

Couldn't make their minds up?

It'll hit the FotM DD damage sure, but it'll hit us players who prefer staff even worse as practically every staff ability is AoE... Surely they may as well totally rework the entire staff skill set if they decide to pummel AoE into the ground?

[FoxBat]

Malganis, on 17 January 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

• Ok this part just stinks.   I'm supposed to sit there and watch my teammates get beaten on by a boss because I screwed up, got killed, and now cannot waypoint back and continue helping them?   Yuck!

Think of it as time out to ponder why you screwed up so badly in the first place.

I would really like death-cam like we had in GW1 though, makes sitting on the ground somewhat entertaining at least.

[Wifflebottom]

TGIFrisbie, on 17 January 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

You must be joking.

I'm not saying that wells need to be nerfed or anything just that I think that they'll probably end up nerfing most AoE skills, not just Ele's

[NuclearDonut]

Darkobra, on 17 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

They are really keen on screwing over elementalists lately.

AoE nerfs affect every profession, they're not going after Elementalists. I don't understand why players always think the devs are specifically targeting their profession with every new patch. We don't even know how they're going to nerf AoE, no need to sound the alarm yet.

[Kaiarra]

NuclearDonut, on 18 January 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

AoE nerfs affect every profession, they're not going after Elementalists. I don't understand why players always think the devs are specifically targeting their profession with every new patch. We don't even know how they're going to nerf AoE, no need to sound the alarm yet.

Probably because in comparison to the other professions Eles have an awful lot of AoE moves - Staff is ~80% AoE for a start. Double dagger also uses a large amount of AoEs, albeit not as many as a staff; as we only get 4 weapon choices you can kinda see why Elementalists would be worried about the idea of these AoE 'nerfs'.

It is possible they'll do something other than just a sweeping nerf to every AoE, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[NuclearDonut]

Kaiarra, on 18 January 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Probably because in comparison to the other professions Eles have an awful lot of AoE moves - Staff is ~80% AoE for a start. Double dagger also uses a large amount of AoEs, albeit not as many as a staff; as we only get 4 weapon choices you can kinda see why Elementalists would be worried about the idea of these AoE 'nerfs'.

It is possible they'll do something other than just a sweeping nerf to every AoE, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I understand this, but saying "They are really keen on screwing over Elementalists lately." is a dramatic overreaction. Necros' best dungeon build would be hurt by AoE nerfs, Engie's would be devastated in most of their builds, Rangers would lose their use in WvWvW, and even Guardians would take a beating. Depending on how much they nerf AoE, all professions are going to take a hit.

Edited by unraveled, 18 January 2013 - 07:02 AM.
Fixed font.

[Bloggi]

Malganis, on 17 January 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

• Ok this part just stinks.   I'm supposed to sit there and watch my teammates get beaten on by a boss because I screwed up, got killed, and now cannot waypoint back and continue helping them?   Yuck!

They mentioned that the 'only way to beat some of the difficult encounters at the moment is to have dead players run back from nearby waypoints while players that are alive kite the mobs'. Yet on the same page they also talked about making some of the more challenging encounters less so. Nothing is set in stone at this point of course until the changes are actually rolled out. But maybe it means that the encounters will be easier and we don't have to worry too much about getting defeated and needing to waypoint back to rejoin combat.

[Darkobra]

NuclearDonut, on 18 January 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

I understand this, but saying "They are really keen on screwing over Elementalists lately." is a dramatic overreaction. Necros' best dungeon build would be hurt by AoE nerfs, Engie's would be devastated in most of their builds, Rangers would lose their use in WvWvW, and even Guardians would take a beating. Depending on how much they nerf AoE, all professions are going to take a hit.

It's neither dramatic nor an over-reaction. Elementalists will be screwed over far more than guardians and the one skill a warrior uses with a longbow. I laughed a little at the guardians being hurt by this anywhere near as much as an elementalist, so thanks for cheering me up.

Edited by unraveled, 18 January 2013 - 07:02 AM.
Fixed font in quote.

[NuclearDonut]

Darkobra, on 18 January 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

It's neither dramatic nor an over-reaction. Elementalists will be screwed over far more than guardians and the one skill a warrior uses with a longbow. I laughed a little at the guardians being hurt by this anywhere near as much as an elementalist, so thanks for cheering me up.

I've seen enough of the internet to know where this is going, so I'm just going to respect your opinion and give you some genuine advice: Don't freak out at the slightest bit of information, you will have a very stressful life. Let's just wait and see how bad this AoE nerf is, and how much Elementalists are affected. I'm not trying to be a sarcastic douche, that was honest advice.

[Darkobra]

NuclearDonut, on 18 January 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

I've seen enough of the internet to know where this is going, so I'm just going to respect your opinion and give you some genuine advice: Don't freak out at the slightest bit of information, you will have a very stressful life. Let's just wait and see how bad this AoE nerf is, and how much Elementalists are affected. I'm not trying to be a sarcastic douche, that was honest advice.

I've seen enough of ArenaNet to know where this is going too. They'll absolutely destroy us, there will be an uproar, they'll backpedal in a few months down the line after seeing the results and we'll be somewhat worse than we are now but better than we will be with the update.

Classic example: Ritualists.

[Auenwing]

lmaonade, on 17 January 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...stream_summary/

for those who either missed it or don't follow reddit a lot

any thoughts? I think some of it is utter bullshit but eh

Warrior here that uses Longbow in PvE, particularly in dungeon runs, yes I'm a little concerned. I also have concerns for my wells-speccd necro. (And maybe this is a sign my ele wasn't going to hit more than mid-60's anyways.)

On paper, it does not appear to be a positive direction.



Having said that however:

As with every MMO I've played, when devs start talking nerfs.. er... adjustments, I take a wait and see attitude and determine how it actually turns out in game before screaming.. er.. complaining.

ANet seems more "systems-approach" than most devs, so I actually have more trust that overall the changes will be balanced.

For example, if dungeon encounters are tweaked so that most players do NOT have to waypoint back in as a mechanic necessary to do the encounter, then it means ANet IS paying attention and saying, "look, that's not how we wanted this to play out, we need to fix that." That's a responsible dev.

And again, if some classes get tweaked (yeah, I would not be happy about that), but overall the end result is that ALL of them are more in line with each other... well, again, that's a responsible dev (particularly when it comes to the hard part of balancing WvW.) At least they aren't doing it with 53 classes.

-Pondering and waiting

Edited by Auenwing, 18 January 2013 - 02:23 AM.

[lmaonade]

I'm most concerned about the "res rushing" fix, sure it gets of graveyard rushing w/e doesn't really affect me. But I do have some friends that are fairly new to the game and not very good when it comes to running content yet, why lock them out of the game just because they've died? If anything you can just inhibit nearby waypoints while keeping the beginning one open, but no option to res at all while party members are in combat is stupid, especially during a boss fight.

[Mister_Smiley]

I hope some of these notes are not true because if they are, Anet is starting to disappoint me more. I just don't know what to think anymore, i guess i will have to wait and see what happens.

As for the "res rushing"  It happens because you did not balance mobs/amounts properly. As for the Dungeons and the changed of Way points, do not do this because it will cause a whole lot of more problems, such as greifing,people not doing specific paths and much more.

[Redhawk2007]

Darkobra, on 17 January 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

They are really keen on screwing over elementalists lately.

Yeah, the idea that our aoe is too high is laughable. When other elementalists target the area around me with their meteor shower in WvW, I sometimes just stand there and keep fighting back, particularly if I have an enemy downed (with the help of people who can actually do some damage, of course). It isn't even powerful enough to take out my squishy elementalist butt, let alone be of much concern to a warrior or guardian. Meanwhile, a thief can charge through my aoe and rip me to shreds in 3 seconds spamming Heartseeker, but they apparently need a buff. I'd love for a developer to go into WvW and see how long it takes to kill a warrior who is standing still and not fighting back with a staff elementalist.

Aoe'ing people trying to rez downed players. What an exploit that is.

This game is looking more like WoW every day with the ridiculous class imbalance always getting worse. Everyone will be playing thief and mesmer in WvW soon enough.

[draxynnic]

Darkobra, on 18 January 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

It's neither dramatic nor an over-reaction. Elementalists will be screwed over far more than guardians and the one skill a warrior uses with a longbow. I laughed a little at the guardians being hurt by this anywhere near as much as an elementalist, so thanks for cheering me up.

In terms of PvP, sceptre 1-skill is almost never going to hit if the enemy has any dodging capability at all, and sceptre 2 would be on the metaphorical chopping block, as would all offensive staff and offhand skills with the exception of the secondary activation of torch 4. Every symbol is a potential target, and pretty much all guardian melee skills cleave, so depending on how they define AoE... the only guardian skills that aren't hit may well be Orb of Wrath and Flashing Blade, with Zealot's Defence possibly getting an out because it's a skill with multiple shots that ideally you really want to all be hitting a single target (but the same out could be applied to Dragon's Claw, since in my experience optimal use of that is often landing all three fire trails on a single target).

I was going to say that elementalists probably got it worse but the difference is not as large as you imply, but now I'm not so sure - if close range AoE attacks are counted and it's a blanket nerf of area attacks and buff of single-target attacks, it may well be elementalists (especially sceptre elementalists) who get to laugh at guardians.