55 replies to this topic

[OGBarron]

Speaking from the inside with my opinion...

Guild Wars 2 was something to look forward to. Something even some of us wanted to play even though never playing GW1 or even an MMO before. When it was released it was the bees knees. But it became stale very quick for those with experience in the genre. A lot of us lost guilds, alliances and more & most importantly friends. The saddest part about it all is due to frustration the friends we lost were so disgusted that they disappeared off the face of the Earth.

Given the average age group of my guild, it seems like GW2 was the last chance for a lot of us older gamers to relieve past adventures and try re-kindle the childhood spirit of kicking ass and chewing bubble gum....while living under mums roof? lol

Games will never DiE. It is a fact. My very first game was Starcraft. I can still log on to bnet and get a game if I am patient. Warcraft 3 is still kicking. It took me 2 minutes to find a 1v1 match on USWEST and about 30 minutes to find a 4v4 after I got my ass handed to me in the 1v1 that lasted for 9 minutes rofl!



So what is the future of WvW? Where do we stand as players? Where does the game stand overall?

The answer is simple. It is going to continue to progress. Everyone is going to continue to make the most of it until making the most becomes boring. Trolls will continue to troll and make themselves taste some sort of achievement - The closest they will ever get! So what really happens to WvW after all the updates and things that people seem to want, and once they get it they complain about it.

Simple. The show goes on!

Anet will never ever be able to please everyone. It is impossible. Some people vote white, some vote black. It is a fact of life.

As a hardcore WvW player I have recently taken a major absence due to competition being stale. It is not because I moved to Sea of Sorrows. It happened a long time before that. [CND] left the game because it was stale! I have no problem with saying that [CND] can kiss my tanned Australian heiny, and if I ever see you in a game again you will be the guild/clan I target first. But for now, WvW is still going and GW2 is ALIVE!

So with the incoming paid transfers (about time...seriously) people are regrouping with old friends.....old enemies....in most cases to attempt to keep the game FUN. So as a player who still values the game, and someone who doesnt want to win 24/7, or wake up to see a 600PPT lead and my servers map all green, or blue, or red......have an evaluation of where you are. Evaluate where you want to be. Even have a look at the guild you are in.

There is no reason why the competition in the top 2 tiers for NA cant be as solid as each other! There should be a massive amount of respect for guilds like WM who jumped down to Kaneing. There should be a little less respect for guilds who have followed. There should be massive respect for individuals who have stayed on servers they started on at release. BUT.....there comes a time, no matter how loyal you are, that you need to start making the correct decisions. As an individual you can do this! As a guild you can do it together and more than likely better!

If you want to keep playing the game, and play it to have a good time....FUN being a key word. Then look at a WvW server that is going to suit your guild. If you are in a small guild, it might be time to stop being high and mighty and release your guild to join with a better guild (not bigger, better!). It might be time for the 400+ member guilds to realise that having 20 people on whilst being a PvX guild doesnt give you the right to spam map chat in WvW telling everyone you have 400 members.....200 of which are on 4 different servers.

Work together! In a time line, GW2 is just a baby. WvW is the second best open field PvP I have had since Ultima Online.

Continue to troll, continue to whinge, continue to server hop and be a nuisance.......and the game will quickly DiE for you. The game wont have anything left for you. And you will carry that same personality on to your next gaming experience.

So get jiggy with it. Play hard, or dont play. Start picking your servers NOW....and dont pick the tier 1's (unless its Blackgate) and start to enjoy WvW a little more.....

Edited by BarronofDiE, 19 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[RivenTheValorous]

Barron, I haven't always agreed with you, but +1 for this post. Well written, genuine, and heartfelt.

We hold the future of this game in our hands as far as WvW is concerned. ANet gave us that power. So whether you are an educated, independent professional or a college dropout who lives your mother's basement, you have the ability to balance this game and make it fun for the future.

[ShabbyDude]

What happens in February when the WvWvW changes don't meet everyone's expectations and culling is still a big problem now that people are going to be transferring and making the big zergs come back again?

[Azure Skye]

It was good till the blackgate part. >.>  Good job none the less.

[Argon809]

Yup, it was good till the Blackgate part. That's when the post became LEGEN...wait for it...DARY. +1 to your post sir.

[Global_GW2]

Azure Skye, on 19 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

It was good till the blackgate part. >.>  Good job none the less.

Haha. Still some resentment buried down deep in there. At least Tsym and company have been able to exact some revenge. Who knows, maybe we'll see DB again in T2, and you'll be able to get some redemption too.

On topic, good post Barron. Like Riven, I rarely agreed with your "methods" in our past interactions, but this was well said and from the gut. Big time props to you.

[Laylyn]

As stated by the OP, it is a storm and it will pass.  To quote FDR, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."  

The game isn't dying, it is just evolving.  Populations are settling as they do in every game.  


/salute

ShabbyDude, on 19 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

What happens in February when the WvWvW changes don't meet everyone's expectations and culling is still a big problem now that people are going to be transferring and making the big zergs come back again?

The same thing that would happen if everything was fixed.   Some will stay.   Some will go.


/salute

[Targanwolf]

I bought the game for one primary reason.My hope that a gaming company(other than DAOC) would understand what world class faction conflict was all about. Clearly Anet did not, and does not  understand .They continue to think WvW should be some kind of expanded pvp match.......or a two week basketball game to see who can score the most points.

I had hoped to see some glimmer of hope in the devs comments,hence my return to this forum today.I'm frankly disappointed but not surprised.

As for myself...I'm done with this game unless radical((for Anet) changes in gameply and content take place.I've left the mmog genre(playing Elder Scrolls.... Skyrim) and following Elder Scrolls Online.

Edited by Targanwolf, 20 January 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Tarkus]

Targanwolf, on 20 January 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

I bought the game for one primary reason.My hope that a gaming company(other than DAOC) would understand what world class faction conflict was all about. Clearly Anet did not, and does not  understand .They continue to think WvW should be some kind of expanded pvp match.......or a two week basketball game to see who can score the most points.

I had hoped to see some glimmer of hope in the devs comments,hence my return to this forum today.I'm frankly disappointed but not surprised.

As for myself...I'm done with this game unless radical((for Anet) changes in gameply and content take place.I've left the mmog genre(playing Elder Scrolls.... Skyrim) and following Elder Scrolls Online.

Meh, I'm not overly convinced that ESO will be much better tbh and you have to keep in mind that there ARE changes in the works for GW2, but I do agree that if AN screws the proverbial pooch in the next few months a large portion of the player base will move on. I have a feeling that most players that traditionally "for the loots", have moved on and the life and death of servers will depend upon the longevity of WvW because while we may bitch and moan about the carebears on the server most players are PvX. No-one wants to have a section of the game cut-off from them due to their server not giving a shite about WvW, so the logical conclusion is to either give up or move. The relative silence from the devs is neither a positive or negative thing because imagine the backlash if they overhyped it, and/or promised what didn't make it into the final cut.

I've been seeing a lot of new unguilded players on SoS lately, and I have a feeling that these guys have moved from lower tiers, such as darkhaven etc. To keep yourselves interested and to not be stuck playing with yourself (mind out of the gutter), for the love of the flying spaghetti monster join a guild that does WvW.

/preachingtothechoir

Edited by Tarkus, 20 January 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[RawNG]

ESO already is able to handle 200 people on screen at any given moment.  On top of that, the guy who made DAoC what it was in RvR is the same guy working on ESO's.  On top of that the zone is suppose to be bigger than all 3 faction zones combined in ESO.  That says a lot to what true world pvp should feel like.  Opening week is going to be a hit for RvR because they are making it so the main city in RvR is occupied by a general enemy and whatever faction takes it over first and fights off the others get to crown a Emperor for some time and occupy the city and prep to protect it.   Not only that but they actually designed the maps to encourage small groups or solo players to be roaming.   That's something that is missing from GW2.  Lots of environmental advantages in the game as well.  

Overall I think ESO will pick up where GW2 fell off.  From my understanding the gameplayer is if you mixed Skyrim and GW2.  But GW2 has a long time to fix its problems in the time it'll take for ESO to drop which is most likely the end of the year.  It generally takes about a year for a game to fix its problems and get most of the stuff they promised rolled out.  I have faith in ANet still because they crafted a magnificent game here and I'm truly happy to even be playing this.  To think I could still be playing SWTOR or WoW.  Everyone should be happy that we have this game as an option considering what the market has out right now.

Edited by RawNG, 21 January 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Pusha]

RawNG, on 21 January 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

ESO already is able to handle 200 people on screen at any given moment.  On top of that, the guy who made DAoC what it was in RvR is the same guy working on ESO's.  On top of that the zone is suppose to be bigger than all 3 faction zones combined in ESO.  That says a lot to what true world pvp should feel like.  Opening week is going to be a hit for RvR because they are making it so the main city in RvR is occupied by a general enemy and whatever faction takes it over first and fights off the others get to crown a Emperor for some time and occupy the city and prep to protect it.   Not only that but they actually designed the maps to encourage small groups or solo players to be roaming.   That's something that is missing from GW2.  Lots of environmental advantages in the game as well.  

Overall I think ESO will pick up where GW2 fell off.  From my understanding the gameplayer is if you mixed Skyrim and GW2.  But GW2 has a long time to fix its problems in the time it'll take for ESO to drop which is most likely the end of the year.  It generally takes about a year for a game to fix its problems and get most of the stuff they promised rolled out.  I have faith in ANet still because they crafted a magnificent game here and I'm truly happy to even be playing this.  To think I could still be playing SWTOR or WoW.  Everyone should be happy that we have this game as an option considering what the market has out right now.

The thing that makes me worry about ESO is when I hear the word "instances" it makes me shiver in my boots.  I am one who feels that only raids, and maybe dungeons if we have to should be instanced.  Everything else should be open world, along with open world pvp so the world is alive and you always have to be on your toes.

Tarkus, on 20 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Meh, I'm not overly convinced that ESO will be much better tbh and you have to keep in mind that there ARE changes in the works for GW2,

What worries me about these changes is that they said February, and if you read one of their last blog postings it says February/March.  So, seems like these changes are harder then they thought, which makes me to believe as a typical MMOer who has been let down by other games that Arenanet will fail like the others to really give us what we want.  Plus, didn't Arenanet say they want to nerf aoe in a sense, yet they are anti-zerg?  Well, clearly they don't get it which gives me even less faith.

[wyvern]

The big question is, will Guild Wars 2 survive a release with a better version of 3 faction PVP. Everyone I know who has played DAoC knows that Guild Wars 2 is no DAoC. WvW is just a shadow of it. So what happens when a game comes out that truly utilizes what 3 faction PVP can offer?

[FriendlyFire]

ESO will probably fail in more than one aspect of WvW/RvR. If you think it will be perfect at launch, you will be let down.

DAoC didn't even have RvR at release.  WvW has to be tuned, patched, and balanced.

[wyvern]

FriendlyFire, on 21 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

ESO will probably fail in more than one aspect of WvW/RvR. If you think it will be perfect at launch, you will be let down.

DAoC didn't even have RvR at release.  WvW has to be tuned, patched, and balanced.

Yes, DAoC didn't have RvR at release, but that is irrelevent because every new game learns from the games that came before it. The problem with GW2 WvW is that it apparently did not learn from DAoC, only decided to take a feature that was wildly popular and tack it on poorly implemented. Unlike say TESO, there is no grounds to improve WvW because ANet denies that the fundamentals of a psuedo-competitive ladder with constantly changing matchups and an ELO does not exactly give a firm foundation for the three faction PVP.  I certainly doubt TESO will be perfect, but their design philosophy of permanent battles that never reset is by in large a much better foundation to build it upon.

Edited by wyvern, 21 January 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[FriendlyFire]

Permanent battles are great unless your population is low or dies.  ESO will still have server stacking and the Devs will have to be quick to react and avoid situations like HoD/ET in the early days of WvW.  If they don't address these issues quickly the HoD/ET phenomena will kill three way battles, and cause people to server hop as they do now. (I played on Alb/Bors, the lowest population server with the lowest Alb population)

WvW has essentially kept the fights going through the ranking system. It actually offers the possibility of something new every week. What it lacks is server pride, server loyalty and rewards that even the PvE players want.  The February patch should have a portion of this covered.

I have more faith in WvW than ESO offering the new-best-thing, because everyone has failed to deliver on release even Mythic,

[Featherman]

Telling people not to do something promoted by the in-game systems doesn't really change the fact that the system is flawed in the first place. That's not to say I disagree with the post's message in any way.

I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic with the coming updates. One of the core engagements of WvW is community and if ANet give players tools to encourage and build long-lasting communities, I can see the game flourishing. Maps, exploits, events, skills, etc can always be tweaked.

Timing is also key with these large scale games. GW2 missed the mark with the initial flood of players, and the playerbase suffered greatly because of it. From the looks of it, ESO has a lot things going for it from the getgo. Its faction system has an enormous amount of lore to build off of, and the themes inherent in each faction contribute to a sense of community and player identity. They've also got the who's who of designers working on the map and mechanics. I'd be shocked if the game's Faction V Faction (or whatever it is) didn't at least fare better than GW2's WvW.

Edited by Featherman, 21 January 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Kurthos]

FriendlyFire, on 21 January 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Permanent battles are great unless your population is low or dies.  ESO will still have server stacking and the Devs will have to be quick to react and avoid situations like HoD/ET in the early days of WvW.  If they don't address these issues quickly the HoD/ET phenomena will kill three way battles, and cause people to server hop as they do now. (I played on Alb/Bors, the lowest population server with the lowest Alb population)

WvW has essentially kept the fights going through the ranking system. It actually offers the possibility of something new every week. What it lacks is server pride, server loyalty and rewards that even the PvE players want.  The February patch should have a portion of this covered.

I have more faith in WvW than ESO offering the new-best-thing, because everyone has failed to deliver on release even Mythic,

There is only one server. There is not a fight for coverage or server stacking. Just three factions.

[FriendlyFire]

Three factions on one server, like DAoC?

Coverage and stacking isn't a problem?

[Impmon]

I choose the "whinge" option.

As I stated previously numerous times I predict WVW will be altered so that you queue for one of three teams, green, blue or red.  You won' be representing your server anymore.  This will be in response to low populations and stagnant wvw pools.  

They could also provide a tournament option for guilds to fight one another with allies.  The battles will take place on each map one after the other.  With the victor being decided who won the most maps.

They should change it so that supplies are limited.  Once all supplies are used up the game is over.  Whoever controls the most is the winner.  Upon completion the victors are rewarded badges of honor, exp, karma, ranking.  If one side controls all towers they win.

It would be more fun to have battles like this then worry about 24/7 coverage all the time.

[ketorin23]

i dont really agree with that at all actually ^

thats too deathmatch style like tribes or something

[MaLeVoLenT_1]

ESO Says they can have 200 people on the screen but have you seen it? ESO says it can run 1 mega server flawlessly but have you seen it? I'm a big fan of the elder scrolls series yet I have no faith in this team ability to produce a MMO better than what ArenaNet can do before it comes out. I'm willing to place money on the amount of issues that game will release with. I bet it will be tremendous. I'm not saying that ESO can't be a good game either I'm just saying GW2 will probably be better for the RvR/WvW/PvP community. As for Lore and PvE though I think ESO will overtake Guild Wars 2 as long as they keep in sync with the orginal team and lore of the Elderscrolls team. I'm also still going to at least play the Beta of ESO.

[DutchAres]

Dont know if you mean WVW for all games or WVW in GW2

WvW for all games:
I am still waiting on a game where WVW is open world GvG game, where groups are roaming around over hills with lots of trees and suddenly get jumped on by another group. Where the groups needs to have lots of tactical and teamwork skills. And classes are build to be depended of eachother.  So lots of defence and counter abilities.
So kinda like the old(pre new frontier) DAOC Group vs Group fights but more reaction based (counter abilities/ or abilities you can use if opponent does... ) And  with ofcourse a better balance between ranged and melee.
And with solutions of the normal problems like zerging, realm balance, balance between new and old players etc...

But WvW in GW2 isnt bad, i run with a good guild (TUP) that does a lot of open fights against forces 3 or more times bigger then we are. We found some good tactics to win against larger forces in fights without using siege. So its still lots of fun
But still i hate the queues. I went looking for a server with some organisation and a guild with the gameplay i liked with almost no queues. Joined my guild, but the succes of our server made lots of other players and guilds join the server also. Now there are large queues.

I hope they will change the game soon so that queues will be removed or almost removed.
Not that hard to do without removing the server pride or making the PVE zones too underpopulated (like making lots of small servers)
For example:
Devide each overpopulated server with queues in wvw into different worlds (so only for WvW, like Blackgate 1, Blackgate 2 . Blackgate 3 etc) with a max cap of like 1000 people.
People/guilds can sign up for 1 of the worlds if they are not capped. And will be removed of the server if they are inactive for longer then a week. (so you still play with the same people/guilds every week)

This will solves lots of other problems too:
- like smaller skill difference between servers
- if they have guilds of other time zones they will have lesser people during prime time (because of cap)
- bigger ranking/ and smaller gaps between servers, so not playing the same worlds every week
- lesser people in WvW, so more chance for small groups and solo players to roam around
- the top rank worlds will be probably all capped so hopping all the time to the top rank server will not work
- etc

Only problem:
Server WvW bonus wouldnt work any more in PVE zones

Edited by DutchAres, 21 January 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[DutchAres]

MaLeVoLenT_1, on 21 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

ESO Says they can have 200 people on the screen but have you seen it? ESO says it can run 1 mega server flawlessly but have you seen it? I'm a big fan of the elder scrolls series yet I have no faith in this team ability to produce a MMO better than what ArenaNet can do before it comes out. I'm willing to place money on the amount of issues that game will release with. I bet it will be tremendous. I'm not saying that ESO can't be a good game either I'm just saying GW2 will probably be better for the RvR/WvW/PvP community. As for Lore and PvE though I think ESO will overtake Guild Wars 2 as long as they keep in sync with the orginal team and lore of the Elderscrolls team. I'm also still going to at least play the Beta of ESO.

I think the big problem why lots of RvR/WvW games faile is because they try to combine a PVE game with WvW game. And all these games are called the same MMORPG... Instead they are to diffent: a good PVE game is build around exploring and becoming stronger(higher stats with gear or lvl) and by doing this being able to do harder content. So every year or so there needs to be new content (WOW style)

RVR or WVW is about killing other players with skill/teamwork and tactics. Classes and abilities need to be designed for group play, sot for being to lvl solo.  Gear/lvl or other stat difference should be very small so skill/teamwork/tactic and a bit of luck stays the determine factor of who will be the winner in a fight. Lvling shouldnt be needed in a RvR game.

I think the difference between these two game types are to big to put into one game. Even if they focus on each part of the game.
I am still waiting for a game company that is going to say we are going to build a RvR game. ESO is going to be another example of PVE game that is going to try to add a working WvW

And there are lots of other reasons the difference between an RvR and PVE game is to big. Like:
- Starting with the graphic engine in wvw you need to be able to render lots of players in a close space.(so render scaling)
- netwerk traffic and the rest of your game should be more secure/abuse free then the usualy pve game , because games where players play against eachothers you will always have players who want to be better then others by cheating or trying to get another way to get an advantage over other players.
- class design doesnt need to be designed to be able to farm solo in an wvw game. But be able to work in a group. So you could have classes without dps roles. So you dont have the problems like my tank/healer doesnt do enough damage so its to hard to lvl. But next to the normal healer/tank and dps class you could design a class to a different role in a group: magic defence/blokker, healer/curer/magic protector, melee defender(tank), long range magic CCer(curable), short range ccer, debuffer/damage dealer, debuffer/ccer, debuff curer/buffer etc..
This also means they are easier to balance
-Same counts for abilities/skills. Not every class need to be able to do dps. Also because of lots of people that can do dps on you at the same time in for example a keep take. Abilities need to be build so you dont die even when 20 people doing ranged dps on you all at the same time.
-map design in wvw should be that small forces can run around and have to find eachother and easy to avoid a zerg(large forest with lots of hills you can run over). (not like the gw2 borderlands with road kinda maps you need to take to get to...) In PVE you usualy needs to follow some kinda quest line and changes zone accourding to lvl.
-goal of the game is getting stronger in PVE, in WvW this should be something else

Edited by DutchAres, 21 January 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[MaLeVoLenT_1]

DutchAres, on 21 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

snip

I agree.

[Norn Osprey]

RawNG, on 21 January 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

- ESO already is able to handle 200 people on screen at any given moment.
- On top of that, the guy who made DAoC what it was in RvR is the same guy working on ESO's.
- On top of that the zone is suppose to be bigger than all 3 faction zones combined in ESO


To think I could still be playing SWTOR or WoW.  Everyone should be happy that we have this game as an option considering what the market has out right now.

A few happy things but where are the negatives?  All games have them and nothing is perfect. I would be very hesitant that ESO could be the savior without hearing from any critics.

SWTOR is a horrible game. The Devs truly had no freaking clue how to design a game. The maps are atrocious (barely useable). Class balance is nonexistent. Blatant class favortism. Faction Favortism. Certain attacks bypass all defense abilities, by design (making tanks worthless in pvp again a very popular class).

The -only- thing it has going for it, is the neat class stories and moral system. Play through some of it once, record the story missions, replay those when you get nostalgic and then never play the game again.

Now that BioWare Austin has had their staff cut so drastically, SWTOR will not get any timely updates/fixes. The game has been out over a year and they -still- dont have server transfers in yet.

[Norn Osprey]

DutchAres, on 21 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

- Starting with the graphic engine in wvw you need to be able to render lots of players in a close space.(so render scaling)

Everyone that was in beta, had no issues with rendering in WvW. GW2's game engine can handle it. There are videos up from beta events where you can see massive amounts of players, easily visible on screen.

If you read the Devs responses to culling carefully, you will notice that everytime they mention culling, they also mention bandwidth.

The reason they added culling was so save them money on their monthly bill -- plain and simple. To handle that, a game would need a subscription fee. That way, the Devs know exactly how much money they have incoming each month and how much they need to pay for their bandwidth.

[DutchAres]

Norn Osprey, on 21 January 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Everyone that was in beta, had no issues with rendering in WvW. GW2's game engine can handle it. There are videos up from beta events where you can see massive amounts of players, easily visible on screen.

If you read the Devs responses to culling carefully, you will notice that everytime they mention culling, they also mention bandwidth.

The reason they added culling was so save them money on their monthly bill -- plain and simple. To handle that, a game would need a subscription fee. That way, the Devs know exactly how much money they have incoming each month and how much they need to pay for their bandwidth.

Didnt say gw2 graphic engine is bad:)
But gw2 is build around SPVP even if they did a great job in creating the WvW and PVE eventbased/story line.
Groups size is perfect for E-Games tournaments
The classes and abilities are build for solo capping and defending objectives in SPVP
So classes are build for solo play not group play. Meaning you will have lots of zergs with solo players in WvW (one of the reasons )
The solutions for zerg fighting and being insta killed kinda sucks.. Their AOE cap of 5 is a bad solutions to block insta kill. Most problems that zergs have and other problems of wvw, they only start to find out now that the game how they designed it will have these. (a lot of old RVR gamers that played lots of RVR games told the game will have these kinda problems during the beta tests and even before on this forum)
If they realy would have focussed more on RVR/WvW they wouldnt have as much problems as they do now. And would have fixed the problems during the design of the game (at the start - before class design etc)
And wvw would have been a lot better than it is now (and it isnt bad already.. so the game would be best ever )

etc ..

Edited by DutchAres, 21 January 2013 - 04:10 PM.

[Xsorus]

FriendlyFire, on 21 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

ESO will probably fail in more than one aspect of WvW/RvR. If you think it will be perfect at launch, you will be let down.

DAoC didn't even have RvR at release.  WvW has to be tuned, patched, and balanced.

DAOC had RvR at release, I don't know who fed you that false information.

It didn't have Realm Abilities, but RvR itself was most certainly in at release of the game.

Norn Osprey, on 21 January 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

A few happy things but where are the negatives?  All games have them and nothing is perfect. I would be very hesitant that ESO could be the savior without hearing from any critics.

SWTOR is a horrible game. The Devs truly had no freaking clue how to design a game. The maps are atrocious (barely useable). Class balance is nonexistent. Blatant class favortism. Faction Favortism. Certain attacks bypass all defense abilities, by design (making tanks worthless in pvp again a very popular class).

The -only- thing it has going for it, is the neat class stories and moral system. Play through some of it once, record the story missions, replay those when you get nostalgic and then never play the game again.

Now that BioWare Austin has had their staff cut so drastically, SWTOR will not get any timely updates/fixes. The game has been out over a year and they -still- dont have server transfers in yet.

We talking about Illum? cause Illums problem stemmed nothing from Map design an entirely because it was unplayable past 16 people in openfield.

Class Balance wasn't actually that bad, No worse then most MMO's i've played, Also tanks weren't worthless in PvP, they weren't great 1v1 and such, however having a Tank was needed in Group vs Group pretty much 100%.

[Xsorus]

MaLeVoLenT_1, on 21 January 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

ESO Says they can have 200 people on the screen but have you seen it? ESO says it can run 1 mega server flawlessly but have you seen it? I'm a big fan of the elder scrolls series yet I have no faith in this team ability to produce a MMO better than what ArenaNet can do before it comes out. I'm willing to place money on the amount of issues that game will release with. I bet it will be tremendous. I'm not saying that ESO can't be a good game either I'm just saying GW2 will probably be better for the RvR/WvW/PvP community. As for Lore and PvE though I think ESO will overtake Guild Wars 2 as long as they keep in sync with the orginal team and lore of the Elderscrolls team. I'm also still going to at least play the Beta of ESO.

I think a lot of people are confused how about the Mega Server works, It works similar to how TSW did it. All 3 Factions are on the same "server" in regards to PVE, you can make your own instance and put certain rules so only certain players can join it and such. in regards to PvP..You have to choose a "Campaign" which is basically a server, You're on that Campaign for life, there is no transferring off of it. It's like choosing Merlin in DAOC, you're on Merlin for life no matter what happens.

As for ESO vs GW2, if ESO adopts a point system like GW2 did then things will go down hill quickly, The Point system is why we have a large amount of problems today in GW2 WvW system.

For example, There is zero real reason for the 2nd place team to attack the stronger team with the weakest team helping them.

Because of the point system, it's better for the 2nd place team to flat out attack the weakest team with the Strongest team as it'll give them more points. Because of this the Weakest team is always trying to fight a 2vs1 battle and can never assist the 2nd place team with attacking 1st place.

So hopefully ESO completely abandons the Esport Approach to WVW and doesn't use a moronic point system.

[MaLeVoLenT_1]

Xsorus, on 21 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

I think a lot of people are confused how about the Mega Server works, It works similar to how TSW did it. All 3 Factions are on the same "server" in regards to PVE, you can make your own instance and put certain rules so only certain players can join it and such. in regards to PvP..You have to choose a "Campaign" which is basically a server, You're on that Campaign for life, there is no transferring off of it. It's like choosing Merlin in DAOC, you're on Merlin for life no matter what happens.

As for ESO vs GW2, if ESO adopts a point system like GW2 did then things will go down hill quickly, The Point system is why we have a large amount of problems today in GW2 WvW system.

For example, There is zero real reason for the 2nd place team to attack the stronger team with the weakest team helping them.

Because of the point system, it's better for the 2nd place team to flat out attack the weakest team with the Strongest team as it'll give them more points. Because of this the Weakest team is always trying to fight a 2vs1 battle and can never assist the 2nd place team with attacking 1st place.

So hopefully ESO completely abandons the Esport Approach to WVW and doesn't use a moronic point system.

I beg to differ it's a matter of what strategy you want to bring to the fight. Last night in T1 during NA primetime JQ had +400 points plus our garrison(SOS). We didnt go after blackgate we went after JQ not in a way though that would give us what they had but in a way that would help not only us lower their high PTT but would allow Blackgate to come back on the map and take their PTT as well. And while they still had higher PTT then us it lowered the gap and allowed us to maintain overall higher score still then JQ by the time we went to sleep and our oceanic counterparts woke. You can look at the point system in many lights not just the way you said it had to be. From my prespective the players/guilds/servers that do that are better off. The players that only view it only one way are normally the ones that quickly resort to calling the fight a 2v1 without understanding why it's like that in the first place.

I disagree with the points being the main issue with WvW. Firstly, I think the number one issue is that there is no progression or reason to fight. If you have no hope of winning there is also no reason to fight. Then second I think is culling. Third I think its overall server ranking system versus server transfers. All of the issues with WvW are minor to me and I think they all will be fixed quicker then ESO can release and fix the issue it will almost surely have. The thing that draws me to these games are not point mechanics but the combat itself and the synergies between classes and here is where I also think ESO will not succeed over GW2 and I realize that this is just an opinion. I don't get excited when looking into ESO combat system. I dont picture the elderscrolls game series being the type of combat I'd like in an MMO.