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Livestream Transcripts by dulfy


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#1 Khalija

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

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This week we had two live interviews - one on the official Guild Wars 2 livestream and another with MMORPG.com. Today we'd like to highlight the two transcripts that dulfy created for them:

Guild Wars 2 Dev Livestream (Jan 17th, 2013) - Link
[spoil]
Part 1
Official Youtube: https://www.youtube....h?v=jspkjoye-08 (looks like this got removed)
Twitch VOD: http://www.twitch.tv...rs2/b/357921586
What is our long term focus for PVE and how we are bringing life back to deserted zones
  • New achievement system that plays into dailies/monthlies that adds new style of gameplay
  • New achievements to encourager cooperative play – i.e. rezzing, rallying) – things that will help players better at understanding the concepts of our game.
  • Allow players to filter back into some of the deserted zones (i.e. this month’s monthly achievement for jumping puzzles was used as an example)
  • New content with the guilds – 4-5 different styles of content that show up in the world that guilds can go in to help kick off and pull other players into it as well.
  • Adding tiers to guild economy/ear guild tabs, adding in new rewards for guild members to show off.
  • >100 new rewards tied to the achievement system to allow players to show off some of the cool stuff they have done.
  • Framework rolling out next couple months
  • New Ascended items coming into play outside FOTM with the new achievement/reward system.
Philosophy on the dungeon
  • Multiple phase change for the dungeons – first build – remove the idea of rez rushing (i.e. only way to beat some of the difficult encounters at the moment is to have dead players run back from nearby waypoints while players that are alive kite the mobs)
  • You can no longer able to use the waypoint if someone in your group inside the dungeon is in combat
  • We are nerfing some of the encounters that are a bit more challenging
  • Phase 2 – go back and look at some of the encounters – retune and increase difficulty if necessary.
  • New rewards (no details)
LFG mechanic
  • We are working right now on a system that go across the board, not just for dungeons, sPvP, open world etc. Allow players to find other players who want to do similar activities. It is a bit far off.
sPvP
  • Working on custom arenas – need to make sure it is bug free, we are polishing them atm
  • Working on leaderboards – see your progress against other people
  • New player experience for PvP – better matchmaking system – play with players of your skill level.
  • Working on a new 1 team vs 1 team version of our tournament system , will be paid tournament (but reduced the cost and reduced rewards). Winners stay in, losers kicked out to the lobby. (Current tournament system require 8 teams for a single tournament with 3 rounds so it is hard to get tournaments started at the moment)
  • This new tournament version will be on Temple of Silent Storm map (this map has a lot of tournament potential).
  • Adding more PvP specific armor skins – i..e skins that are available in PvE but not in PvP.
  • Blog post coming up to talk more
WvW
  • Looking into progression in WvW to give you some kind of character development and rewards
  • Goal is to progression/rewards. Encourages more players to do WvW.
  • Recently tested culling – we are doing great things with culling – running a lot of different tests/tweaks.
  • Our WvW programmer talks about more on the official GW2 forums.
  • Adding more PvP specific armor skins – i..e skins that are available in PvE but not in PvP.
AoE abilities balancing
  • One of the issues brought up a lot in WvW./sPvP is AoE (Area of Effect). We feel like they are too strong at the moment and a lot of people in WvW are gaming the system using AoEs.
  • For people that don’t know – max targets for siege weapons is 50 while max targets for AoE is 5.
  • Reducing AoE effectiveness to bring them in line with the single target damage skills.
  • Major update coming to all the AoE skills – make classes that are good at single target damage stand out a bit more.
  • Same thing with dungeons – right now if you have a lot of AoE you can past encounters by just spamming AoE which is not what we want.
Why no specific dates for updates
  • Sometimes codes interact weirdly and we don’t want to give you a date if stuff screws up and we have to push back. We will give you dates when we are in the final stages of testing.
  • Same with buggy stuff – sometimes bug slip out.
Philosophy for weapons/traits & class balance
  • We want every single class to feel like they have multiple options to deal with every situations, this doesn’t mean every class will have the exact same options.
  • We want every single class to deal situations in an unique manner – we keep “purity” in certain skills/traits i.e. only mesmers and thieves have stealth to deal with some situations. Not everyone have stealth but every class have a defensive mechanism they can use if they don’t stealth.
  • We want to bring up all the weak weapons/traits on par with strong weapons/builds/traits in addition to reduce AoE effectiveness.
  • A lot of classes have 1-2 good builds while some have 5-6 builds , we want to bring up all the classes to 5-6 good and viable builds.
Part 2
Q & A session
Q: How close do you feel each class fulfill the class philosophy
  • We use one set of balance numbers for wvw, pve, and spvp. We do this because people get acclimated to characters – we want people to play a class in a certain situation and feel comfortable in another
  • Some classes are filling their roles, some are not
  • We are brining up the weaker builds to be on par with the good builds.
  • So yes they are but there are more work to be done.
Q: Expain what you mean by progress in WvW
  • We are encourage people to defend, to get involved, to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
  • Reward the individual player for what they are doing rather than contribute scoring via server
Q: Culling fixes available in WvW, sPvP, or PvE, when?
  • Depends on testing – WvW atm is bad, PvP is not an issue, PvE affected for large scale events (i.e. Lost Shores, Shatter event)
  • We are testing the system in WvW and hopefully it will affect all across the board.
Q: Fractals
  • Adding reconnect to fractals, and coming up a solution for the level restrictions – those are coming up in the next build.
  • Able to start at the highest fractal level achieved by any group member – it will advance everyone who is eligible for advancement up one tier
  • You will be rewarded based on your personal level, not the level of the fractal you are in (i.e. if you are not 10+, you can’t get ascended rings by doing higher fractals etc)
Q: Dynamic system in open worlds – how will it evolve – make it more understandable, more rewards
  • Changes to Orr at end of month – adding some new effects, environment zones, rewards
  • Continue building lore/story – between content patches we will add in new events, new guild stuff.
Q: Stance on allowing people to see enemy nameplates in WvW
  • Mixed feeling – we want server to viewed as a whole and not introduce bitterness to individual players
  • Not completely opposed to the idea – be interesting to get bragging rights, more competitive nature
  • Not sure how to design around that at the moment – maybe add it as a reward?
  • Need to make it voluntary, prevent harassment issues
  • WvW is about large scale massive battle mentality where individual players are not as important
Q: Advancement/prestige design for wvw
  • We want to keep things consistent – similar to some other stuff in the game. Can;’t talk much
Q: How does dev priorize development time – new content or old content bug fixes?
  • We want to to do bug fixes first then add in new content.
  • We looked at dungeons across the board, fractal bosses are more interesting – environment affect them etc. We want to do the same to the original dungeon bosses.
  • Specific teams to focus on different areas of the game to make sure no area is left behind.
Q: Do you think classes will have more weapon combinations sometime in the future? (i.e. Eles using greatswords)
  • Great question, you might be able to see it in the future – can’t comment more
Q: Examples to make boss more interesting
  • Different mechanics when bosses get to a different health stage etc like some of the fractal bosses.
  • We now have more better tools to develop boss scripts.
Q: WvW and ascended gear?
  • It is an idea being tossed around – use the badge system perhaps.
  • I am hopeful that we will see Ascended gear in WvW
Q: Custom areans – new game modes? cost to host?
  • Yes, cost money to host, you rent server from us.
  • You can’t create an entirely new gamemode but you can turn some features on/off.
  • I know you guys want new gamemodes like CTF
Q: GvG – Guild vs Guild
  • Guilds battle in guild halls – you had a flag, a guild lord etc in GW1.
  • We see it more as the team 5vs 5 stuff in GW2 and in custom arenas
Q: New game modes?
  • We want to use conquest as the base and develop around it, we are talking about deathmath, CTF and see if they can fit our game.
  • Maybe we can implement some elements from other gamemodes.
  • Why do we keep to conquest? If you want something to grow, to do Esport, you want something that people can pick up and familiar with.
  • New mode – pushing the boundaries of what conquest can do arriving sometime before the death of the universe.
Q will GW2 become a ESPORT?
  • Yes, we are working on things that GW2 needs to be an esport – i..e custom arenas, Spector mode, better streaming support
  • Releases later in the year.
Q: Do you agreee with the statement the current metagame is boring
  • Current metagame is boring, could use some expansion
  • Bunker – a class is a class that hold down a position, has a lot of healing and self-survability (i.e. a tank). We don’t want the bunker to go away completely. Bunkers give you an anchor in the map.
  • We don’t want to be case that every team needs a bunker.
  • Bring builds to all classes to what the bunkers are currently.
  • Eles are tough, guardians are tough, mesmers are hard to take care of, so are thieves.
Q: Do you find any profession to be out of balance like Ele bunker, roamer, thief one shot combo, mesmer portal?
  • Ele bunker is really strong, on our watchlist
  • Mesmer portal is giving us problems –giving that tool onto other classes maybe?
Q: Reward screen for the new crowns for the achievements
  • If you are playing a specific class, you have a reward that can be tailoring to your class
  • A chest containing stuff that your class that you can use.
  • Not class specific armor etc.
Q: Get crowns are achievement we already have?
  • First build only have crowns for daily and monthly achievements
  • Later phase will have crowns are other achievement.
  • New daily and monthly achievements tied to new content – allow to pick specific rewards you care about.
  • Feb’s monthly will reward crowns
  • Crowns are a new type of currency but these won’t take up inventory space (i.e. it will be like karma/gold)
Q: Elaborate your plans for changing AoEs
  • This is not a quick fix, we are getting a lot of data.
  • If your skil does 10 damage to a single target, if you have another skill that have the same opportunity cost but deals 8 damage to 5 targets, the AoE skill is better – we don’t want you to use AoE skills on single target mobs.
  • Maybe add a new mechanic where mobs are resistant to AoE damage.
  • In PvP and WvW we see people using AOEs on enemy players rezzing other etc
Part 3 (Dev responses to common concerns)
AoE

Just wanted to let you guys know that we’re reading this thread.

Your logic, reasons, anecdotes and ideas are being listened to. Also keep in mind, that as I said yesterday, a skill can be a balance problem in one area of the game, but underpowered in another. That’s the nature of using one set of #‘s to balance across all areas of the game. So we’re keeping that in mind as we look at this. We may need to do different tweaks in different areas of the game.

We’re also not going to make a knee jerk reaction to this. We’re still gathering data, watching player trends, and having meetings on all possible ramifications from possible changes.

- Jonathan Sharp

There are a few different knobs we can turn in regards to AoE some of the bigger ones being:
Radius of the AoE
Frequency of the AoE Damage
Damage of the AoE
Max Targets of the AoE

Currently, some players causing the AoE are able to do more damage to one person while also controlling a portion of the field, compared to a player with single target damage.

In our balance discussions we always look at what these changes could do to PvE as well as PvP. Any changes we make will undergo a lot of testing, both internal and by our trusted alpha team. It is important to understand that we are not doing a blanket nerf to all AE’s or a dramatic adjustment of the damage AoE’s can do. There may be some cases where players can build for AoE damage, but are just not viable or other cases where AoE is clearly the dominate way to build, and as such the other builds get left on the side lines. Its these classes/builds that we are concerned about.
- Jonathan Sharp


sPvP

I agree. We’ve done some of the core stuff we wanted to nail w/ the conquest format, so now we’ll start getting into different secondaries that provide new types of gameplay.

Also, I think it’s ok to have some “just for fun” maps and “competitive/serious/tournament” maps. So let’s say we come up with a secondary that may appeal to more casual players, but not as much to hardcore players. I think that’s ok. It will just be known (and other games do this), that some maps are more for casual audiences, and others are for the hard core players.
- Jonathan Sharp

Thanks for all the feedback guys. We’re looking forward to the 1 team vs 1 team test coming up and seeing your feedback.

We plan to do other tests down the road, depending on how it goes. So that’ll be a great place for us to try some new ideas! And as I said, once we feel we have a strong core of “normal” conquest maps, I think it’s totally fine for us to branch off and try some other things that may not make it into tournament play.
- Jonathan Sharp

[/spoil]

MMORPG.com Livestream with Colin Johanson (Jan 18th, 2013) - Link
[spoil]
Twitch TV recording: http://www.twitch.tv...com/b/358339359
How are things going in GW2?
  • Interesting life cycle in a MMO – once a MMO comes out, you immediately become a MMO service provider. Once a MMO launches, you have that peak concurrency right off the bat, then population drops down and it settles into the core player base, then that core population slowly decline every month after that.
  • If you look at EVE, WoW, those are great examples of games that settled into their base population after launch and then every month start to grow a bit. All the other games that weren’t as successful hit their base point and started to drop off a bit.
  • We actually hit our base point with GW2 where for a month we saw the same login numbers and every week for the last 5 weeks it has being slowly going up and that is really exciting for us.
  • We are the fastest selling MMO ever made – to get to 3 million copies (maybe not including China). The game is doing better than we ever imagined it could
Where did you guys think you would be after launch at this point?
  • We definitely didn’t expect to have this many sales, this many concurrent users, this many logins. Our goal is to hit our base user and then build on that every month and have it go up. We definitely seen that.
  • The actual sales and actual numbers are much higher – a big chunk higher than where we thought we would be right now. Can’t say the details.
How is the Black Lion Trading Company working out?
  • In GW1 we had a really small live team because the game wasn’t big enough to generate a consistent revenue. The gems/micro-transaction based model allow us to have a much larger live team in GW2, allowing players to see much more content on a monthly basis.
  • Our live team in GW2 is 15-20 times larger than the live team in GW1.
Have you found that things are easier to make in GW2 since you are now working on your second game?
  • It is mixed – we are learning more.
  • The challenge that is different GW1 is that our dynamic event system is really complicated, much more so and time consuming to make than traditional quests in GW1.
  • You have to account for when the event occurs, how does it interact with other events/contents, and what happens when the event occurs too many times in a row, how do you reset the event after completion.
  • It is much more challenging to build but also much more rewarding – we are getting faster and better at it.
  • So the short answer is no – in the amount of times it takes to design a quest in GW1, we are only about 10% into an event in GW2.
WvW: How is the fight against culling going?
  • It is a huge project that involve us basically rewriting the entire way how models and assets load.
  • Jan update is our first major improvement – models that appear near you will first be a low res model that act as a placeholder until the whole character is loaded in. This will fix those “invisible” characters that appear next to you that some of you are currently experiencing.
  • Next major step is how do we show more models and more things happening on screen. We are doing a lot of internal testing and it is looking very promising.
  • We are going to stay away from doing massive open world events with hundreds of people until we get culling fixed.
AoEs in WvW
  • Guys working on skll balance are still trying to decide what to do. Some of it will be going through and evaluating all the AoEs in the game and trying to pick out a couple that are over the top and making some tweaks.
  • We don’t want AoEs to be as strong or more powerful than a single target damage spell in the same amount of time when it has the capacity to hit 5 people instead of 1.
  • There are some skills right now that you always use no matter what and they are not necessarily situational or you time them properly. We want there to be a lot of tactics and thought that goes into the things that you do. That will be part of the strategy when we look through the AoE skills.
  • We don’t want to make them useless, we just want to make them working as intended and we noticed that there are a couple right now that are not.
Bunker Elementalist on your watchlist – what does it mean?
  • Watchlist means we are seeing it as a very common build. This warrants the discussion is this the meta that we want to have right now. Is it fun to play as, is it fun to play against? If the answer is yes to both, then we don’t change it. If it is no, then we will take a look at it and tweak it a little bit.
  • If it is not fun to play as, and play against, is probably something we don’t want to see in our game.
  • Watchlist means someone is sitting around watch people playing Ele bunker 24/7.
Engineer feels weak compared to my guardian – what classes are the team looking to tweak?
  • (Host) – Engineer Grenade build was on the watch list before and it was changed accordingly. To be fair, the engineer is still awesome with the grenade build. (Colin) – yes that is what I run on my character and I agree.
  • We are looking at all professions at all times, we try not to just look at a single profession at any one time. That is a really dangerous thing to do and you are not look how it affects the entire game.
  • The guardian is intended to be meaty-tough, engineer is more for people who are looking to play with versatility, tricks, and gadgets. If there is something on engineer we need to tweak, we will take a look at it.
  • In GW2, the 8 professions are very closely split between the game population, which you don’t see in a lot of other games.
  • Most popular race is human? Yea, same with all other MMOs with humans – the most popular race is human. Lowest played race in GW2 is the Charr.
WvW & Zerging – what are you guys working to get people away from zerging.
  • Zerg is sort of the natural gameplay that is kind of evolved – find a commander and follow it. Comfort in numbers.
  • Strategically, the best strat is to split into mini zergs and constantly harassing the map.
  • We need have more capacity for commander to direct others, coommunicate, develop tactics and strategy.
  • Provide reasons to holding multiple objectives for long period of time other than just score – If my server is losing, what is the reason I am going to keep logging in to keep playing.
  • We need to provide incentives to winning over a short period of time and that is one of the major features that we are focused on.
Progression Model for WvW
  • We are actually working on two systems: one is the new feature we just talked about to incentive short term win and the other is the progression system.
  • One of the key features missing from WvW right now is a reason for me to login and progress as a individual – I can fight for my server, for scores, for fun, but there is not a clear sense of progression for me as a player.
  • This progression system will give you WvW specific abilities you gain as you work down the progression path and recognition so other players can see your progression.
  • Enemies won’t see your name but they will see your progression – i.e. title, name that show up differently to enemies (i.e. not just an invader). Details are not finalized yet.
Crowns (renamed to Laurels) and achievements
  • We renamed crowns into laurels – crowns translate into bad words in other languages.
  • Laurel system is a new currency like gold/karma. You earn 1 laurel for each daily, 10 for per monthly. Merchants in cities you can trade – ascended gear, infusions, more hidden items in the game, tonic that transform you into cats, some new mini pets, WvW things you can get.
  • This is taking some of the rewards that are currently buried behind RNG and giving you access to them by just logging in to your dailies/monthlies.
  • Daily achievements – in the initial release for Jan, each day of the week have different dailies but you need to do all of them. Down the road we will add in a new system that allow you to pick from a list of which dailies you like to do and make dailies choices a bit more specific (i.e. complete 4 jumping puzzles).
  • The intent with new system of achievements we are releasing later on is to create hotspots in the world to direct people to – i.e. score goals in keg brawl. Give us a chance to showcase part of the game people may not know about and give people a incentive to go back some of the older areas. We will also be adding in new content to these old areas to make them more exciting.
Guesting
  • Guesting allow you to click on a world and play with your friends seemlessly – limited to 2 worlds per day to play on. Server transfer cost depends on how full the servers you want to transfer to.
  • We had guesting almost done in each of the earlier patches but right before we were about to release it someone found a major bug that forced us to push it back.
Not having a level cap in earlier versions of GW2– what made you change about that design?
  • That idea sort of morphed into our level scaling system. We need to make it rewarding and fresh everytime you go back to that world.
  • One of the factors right now preventing the rewards to be as good is that on some maps, you can’t get loot up to your level
  • We are fixing that soon – you will always have a chance to get loot up to your level on those maps that are not giving out level appropriate loot.
Orr
  • For Jan update , we are thinning out the density of mobs in Orr, making some more waypoints always active, and adding some more new rewards – from vendors, from drops.
  • We also tweaked some of the bosses in temples to make them a bit more exciting for larger groups.
  • We didn’t complete rebuild Orr but we tweaked it a little bit.
Player Q&A
  • Guild houses/player houses anytime soon? We will do guild halls some point, it is not something we are actively working on atm. Player housing is in our radar.
  • Fractal relics – anyway to trade them in for other items? – not in the upcoming Jan release. It is something we will look into.
  • Plans to tweak precursors for legendaries? – we like to do in the long run is doing an epic scavenger hunt – we are in the midst of designing that right now. That is going to take some time. Legendaries don’t make you more powerful and not our #1 focus. Our #1 focus is making our core world stronger because that affect all the players. We will also find additional ways to get precursors – additional places that they can drop – not intended as a fix but something to go by until the real fix.
  • LFG: It is something we are working on, we have a team working on it. We are not building on a dungeon finder that auto places you in dungeons. We want to make a tool easier for players to play with. It is not automated. It is something you won’t see for the next couple months.
  • Additional hairstyles, additional cosmetic features? We will continue to expand on that
  • Additional playable races? It is something we could be. Might be part of an expansion. No guarantees.
[/spoil]
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#2 szthesquid

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

we don’t want you to use AoE skills on single target mobs.


Then how am I supposed to play an elementalist?
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#3 Omedon

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

We are not building on a dungeon finder that auto places you in dungeons. We want to make a tool easier for players to play with. It is not automated.


Very glad they are not crossing the line on this. Upping the ability to find people is good, automatically committing you to working with someone you have had no contact with is bad. GW2 instances are team content, algorithms and code can form groups, they can't form teams.

VERY glad at Colin's change in verbiage regarding housing. Guildhalls are secondary to player housing in GW2's "player empowered" environment, and it sounds like Colin's on side with that idea.

Edited by Omedon, 19 January 2013 - 11:36 PM.
fixed the weird bg on text

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#4 szthesquid

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:32 PM

Very glad they are not crossing the line on this. Upping the ability to find people is good, committing you to working with someone you have had no contact with is bad. GW2 instances are team content, algorithms and code can form groups, they can't form teams.


If it forms a party but doesn't automatically place you in the dungeon, that would be perfect.

In fact, anything less would be kind of dumb - otherwise people would just stick to gw2lfg.
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#5 Kuruptz2

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Lol? he dont want me to use AEO?

is he playing the same game as i am? or he never played elementalist

Edited by Kuruptz2, 19 January 2013 - 06:38 PM.

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#6 Omedon

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:41 PM

If it forms a party but doesn't automatically place you in the dungeon, that would be perfect.

In fact, anything less would be kind of dumb - otherwise people would just stick to gw2lfg.


I'm willing to bet that the height of the "automation" will be the population of a list of LFG players that you then contact like a human being and ask if they'd like to join you.

Again, they can automate the streamlining of group formation, they can't automate team formation. The difference is communication, which just happens to be a mainstay of the GW2 instance approach.
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#7 Serris

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

no use talking about the LFG tool. it's not coming out for the next couple of months.
i can't help but think this is just dumb. players have to alt tab out of the game to find a group inside the game. the very notion is stupid to the extreme in any post-WoW mmo.
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#8 borovnica

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

no use talking about the LFG tool. it's not coming out for the next couple of months.
i can't help but think this is just dumb. players have to alt tab out of the game to find a group inside the game. the very notion is stupid to the extreme in any post-WoW mmo.


Sure LFG would have been nice to have from the begining, but there were and are more stuff to do, and gw2lfg is really good alternative.
I have no problem alt-tabing my game at all, that is one of the reason I play games on PC, multi tasking :)
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#9 jirayasan

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:50 PM

Lol? he dont want me to use AEO?

is he playing the same game as i am? or he never played elementalist


You read wrong. He's meaning AoE is as strong against 1 enemy as a single target is against 1 enemy.
AoE should be weaker than a single target skill, it does damage on multiplie enemies.

Example

Singe target does 2k damage = 2k damage

AoE does 2k damage on 5 enemies = 10k damage


That is why some people find dungeons easy in GW2, you just have to AoE everything. Same in WvWvW.

Edited by jirayasan, 19 January 2013 - 08:09 PM.

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#10 Red Intensity

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

The guardian is intended to be meaty-tough, engineer is more for people who are looking to play with versatility, tricks, and gadgets. If there is something on engineer we need to tweak, we will take a look at it.


Horsecrap on the versatility part. The turrets and their overload functions have unreasonably long cooldowns with lackluster damage and can't handle an enemy's sneeze even when traited; gadgets are close to worthless and like the turrets, have lackluster effects with long cooldowns; elixirs rely far too much on the Random Number Goddess, more often than not giving us a boon we probably didn't want in the midst of a battle. Can't forget that properly using specific kits requires traiting deep into a specific line (i.e., Grenadier, Elixir-infused Bombs) in order to anything other than wimpy effects from them. Oh, and tweak = nerf.

We are looking at all professions at all times, we try not to just look at a single profession at any one time. That is a really dangerous thing to do and you are not look how it affects the entire game.


And horsecrap on the singling out. Engineers/Mesmers are singled out when it comes to nerfs in patches, and the one time the mesmer was buffed in anything outside of underwater skills (really, who the hell truly cares about that part?), it was revoked shortly after winter vacation ended. If they don't want these two classes doing any damage, why bother having them around?
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#11 Fizzypop

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

You read wrong. He's meaning AoE is as strong against 1 enemy as a single target is against 1 enemy.
AoE should be weaker than a single target skill, it does damage on multiplie enemies.

Example

Singe target does 2k damage = 2k damage

AoE does 2k damage on 5 enemies = 10k damage


That is why some people find dungeons easy in GW2, you just have to AoE everything. Same in WvWvW.


Problem is a lot of elementalist builds relay on skills that are all AOE. I'm pretty sure all of the staff skills has some form of AOE even the #1 if the targets are close. So how is this going to effect staff elementalists for example? Are we just going to see a damage reduction in our entire skill bar? That seems a little overboard. Perhaps they will find another solution or only tweak one skill, but I'm curious how they plan on reducing damage without hurting many elementalists builds.
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#12 The Comfy Chair

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

Problem is a lot of elementalist builds relay on skills that are all AOE. I'm pretty sure all of the staff skills has some form of AOE even the #1 if the targets are close. So how is this going to effect staff elementalists for example? Are we just going to see a damage reduction in our entire skill bar? That seems a little overboard. Perhaps they will find another solution or only tweak one skill, but I'm curious how they plan on reducing damage without hurting many elementalists builds.


It seems that they're more interested on nerfing AoE's which lock an area down for the duration. Looking at the skill bar the only one i can see which seriously does that for an ele is lava font. Even meteor shower, although it hurts, doesn't guarantee a hit on anything in the area (all they need to do is make it so the channel needs to complete to cast it). Many Ele AoE attacks are proximity to the target with one tick, it's only lava font which has multiple ticks.

Additionally, most AoE attacks on ele have a long build up time, like skills 2 of both ice and earth, so they're fairly easy to dodge. So thinking about it, i don't foresee many nerfs for elementalist AoE attacks. Necros however, are screwed, their entire staff skill bar pretty much runs afoul of what Anet consider 'bad' AoE to be. Location specific, multiple ticks, lots of damage on a specific area, blah blah. However i'd prefer it if they simply had a scaling damage system for AoE rather than a blanket nerf. 100 damage to one target, 80 damage to 2 ect.

In the end i do agree that AoE makes dungeons ect. significantly easier so something does need to be done, but since the ele lacks a weapon swap, a blanket AoE nerf would be overly limiting. I can diversify with a necro, for example, but as an ele if i pick AoE (staff), i'm stuck with AoE entirely.

At the moment that's also limiting in general for the ele. what's the point in focusing a mob with a single target attack when you can down all of a group at the same speed? I did find it a bit strange that whilst my dagger/dagger build would be fine in 1v1 and struggle to stay as useful as mobs were added, my staff is only slightly worse in 1v1 but is just as effective in 5v1 in terms of killing speed! It means that i very rarely want to swap out of using a staff. So i'm forced into only ever having AoE by the inability to change on the fly to really adapt. Having weaker AoE wont really solve this, it'll just force ele's between a rock and a hard place :P do they suck in single target, or do they suck in AoE? meanwhile every other class (except engineer) can do both. Especially the facerolly warrior and guardian greatsword builds. If AoE is getting looked at, those weapons need to be nerfed under that investigation too, since facerolling dungeons by clumping together with greatswords isn't exactly great either :P

The important question for me though i how will this affect the water attunement AoE spells for staff? it's not like they're overpowered heals as it is, a nerf to skill 3, for example, would make it entirely worthless! It's only a 2-3k heal as it is, which can be nearly beaten simply by swapping to water standing next to someone.

EDIT: tidying up a bit, the stream of thoughts ended up a bit haphazard.

Edited by The Comfy Chair, 19 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.

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#13 MisterB

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

So how is this going to effect staff elementalists for example? Are we just going to see a damage reduction in our entire skill bar? That seems a little overboard. Perhaps they will find another solution or only tweak one skill, but I'm curious how they plan on reducing damage without hurting many elementalists builds.


Short answer: No one knows yet. You may find this informative.

https://forum-en.gui...-in-WvW/1239927

Spoiler

Edited by MisterB, 19 January 2013 - 09:46 PM.

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#14 Chronos12360

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

Pretty excited about some of hese confirmations. Player housing and guild halls are great to hear about and Idk anout you all but the rez change to dungeons makes me think that raid-like content is coming ( not the gear hunt but rather larger groups and more strategy). Most importantly their stance on LFG is fantastic. Going beyond a simple list of others in the LFG is too much. Social interaction is best and I hope they stick to their guns with LFG going forward.
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#15 szthesquid

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

Staff isn't the only trouble with an AoE nerf, it's the entire elementalist class. Here's a list of damage-dealing single-target ele spells, from the wiki:

Water Blast (water staff 1)
Stoning (earth staff 1)
Flamestrike (fire scepter 1)
Ice Shards (water scepter 1)
Arc Lightning (air scepter 1)
Lightning Strike (air scepter 2)
Blinding Flash (air scepter 3)
Stone Shards (earth scepter 1)
Impale (earth dagger 1)

That's 9 damaging single-target spells across the entire class' non-underwater weapon skills (60 weapon skills total, by the way), and 7 of them are autoattacks.

I want to trust ANet to handle it; I'm just not sure how they'll do so without killing the elementalist for either single-target or group damage. Of course, I'm not a game designer, so we'll see.

Edited by szthesquid, 19 January 2013 - 09:53 PM.

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#16 darkk zhaitan

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

Pretty excited about some of hese confirmations. Player housing and guild halls are great to hear about and Idk anout you all but the rez change to dungeons makes me think that raid-like content is coming ( not the gear hunt but rather larger groups and more strategy). Most importantly their stance on LFG is fantastic. Going beyond a simple list of others in the LFG is too much. Social interaction is best and I hope they stick to their guns with LFG going forward.


I believe they've already mentioned about how player housing and guildhalls were in their minds before. Nothing new has been said about them in this PR session, they are still "not being actively worked on". I'm sure people will continue to ask about them in future though, and the devs will continue to say the same thing, which in turn, will irritate people more. I don't know what is a better response though, them saying "not being actively worked on", or saying that the scavenger hunt will be "epic" without actually elaborating anything.
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#17 IsThisNameTaken

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

I swear all Anet staff are thieves...
"make classes that are good at single target damage stand out a bit more..."
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#18 Alyssa

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:10 AM

I get where arenanet may be coming from in terms of not buffing the engineer because it is versitile, because versitility is a fine line that go from underpowered to overpowered very quickly. However, most engineer skills are extremely lackluster and need allot of work. Versitility is nice, but its not all that versitile when many skills need work. Don't get me wrong, engineer is a great class and in the right hands a good one, but they make it sound like its fine as is and its really not imo. I think allot of classes need tweaks but engineer stands out to me the most as needing some changes.

Looking forward to the other changes though. I'm glad they are working on strenghting the foundation of the game before moving on.
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#19 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:42 AM

What I end up reading from this is that they think Elementalists AoE is overpowered and needs to be nerfed.
Soo. They pretty much think that we should all switch to Dagger Ele's then...

Staff ele's in PvE don't have it that easy, a Dagger ele can kill things an awful lot faster and still do decent multi-target damage. The only thing that makes Staff ele's decent is that we can take down multiple targets at once. If they nerf the damage then we loose that ability as well so wtf.

I thought the point of GW2 was that I could play it MY WAY. I want to play as a staff ele not a dagger ele... Kitten you Anet -_-
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#20 Featherman

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

I think D/D is actually at greater risk for a nerf than staff, since its AoE skills are quicker and therefor more efficient at hitting multiple opponents at the same time. Staff has zoning capabilities that only damage afk players.

This talk of AoE reminds me of the AoE and cleave mechanics of Tera. Skills that hit multiple enemies in that game would deal less and less damage as the number of targets increased, so players were forced to work together to systematically pick off key opponents with single target abilities rather than nuke them all down a bunch of AoE. It was a deep and interesting system, and it didn't at all make AoE useless. It just made it a bit more situational and balanced with respect to single target damage.

If the dev stream is any indicator, they're likely going for a situational approach to AoE as well. My faith in the balance team isn't too high, so here's hoping they don't botch it >.<

Edited by Featherman, 20 January 2013 - 09:29 AM.

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#21 MaZt

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

One thing that people seem to forget is that ArenaNet is a company trying to make money. If they put all the things that you want to put in their monthly free updates like Guild Halls,Player Housing,etc then what is gonna be left to put in their expansions in order to make the people buy them. The big features that you want are gonna be saved for expansion content in order to force people buy the expansions, you cant give everything for free otherwise people wont be motivated to give money to Anet through buying the expansion content.
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#22 Trei

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

Then how am I supposed to play an elementalist?

Go for multiple targets?
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#23 Riaky

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

I see a lot of rage quit for the upcoming patches. Anet is trying too hard to make this game an Esport when the interest in it sPvP is not where it should be for an Esport to sustain itself.

They didn't bother answering the thief opness question at all, so I guess Thief will continue to be op in the future patches.

Most end-game materials usually rely on sophisticated dungeons with 20-30 ppl or really good end game massive pvp. They need to make that as the centerfold if they want GW2 to last. With their future nerf to dungeons WP system I can see a lot of people going to rage quit especially when it comes to Arah or COE.
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#24 pumpkin pie

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

Reward the individual player for what they are doing rather than contribute scoring via server
Rewarding individual player for what they are doing, as in they are alone doing things in WvW or they are in a group and rewards are base on what they do?

Because if it was rewarding players for what they do alone, wouldn't that discourage player from forming a group in WvW?

LFG could use a chat panel that is solely for grouping/lfg

Reasoning: Since we can do /join pumpkin pie (for instant) a chat panel for grouping/LFG would be useful, this chat panel should be server wide, meaning players from all maps can read it. once someone do a /join pumpkin pie, I can see who's joining and pick from those who wishes to join me. This encourages ppl to form group, since those forming the group gets to pick who goes with them. Server wide LFG chat panel is also useful, sometime when you are playing, you just don't want to stand idle waiting for a group to form, I could be chopping trees or covering an area that is not yet done.

Getting teleported to the dungeon location from wherever your character is should be useful, put in the travel fees from where your character is to travel from, because sometime players are that (ie me) lazy. Something like: you are about to join your party in The Mist, travel fees is X silver, [yes]/[no]

How are skills that need both hands to target (ie using mouse / ground targeting skills) being balance against skills that players only needs one finger to activate? (this is not a suggestion, just a curious question) because I don't think they are balance at all, but if there's a reasoning behind why some skills need both hands to activate while others merely needed one, leaving them with more free fingers to navigate their characters. ... Consider me a noob, say my necromancer is using a staff with 4 ground targeting skills, and this other character have auto attack skill 1 and 4 other skills that they merely need to hit 2,3,4,5 while their right hand is free to make the character run around making my necromancer unable to target it effectively. how is this balance?

What happens when a single elementalist is face with a single foe? does their aoe also not work? on this single target? how do you balance that.

Because i don't think the problem with elementalist is aoe, its how quickly they/we can swap from one attunement to another from fire to water to earth to air making us/them having 20 skills to use when players who swap between 2 set of weapons only have 10 skills to use.

i'll add to this when i remember what i wanted to say, until then that's all for now, back to tyria :P.

Regarding those monthly rewards that involve things like 100 dynamic events participated or 100 dungeons cleared, might we have a minimum requirement to complete the monthly, after that the counter continue counting, because I just realized, for players who play on a daily basis, those numbers don't stop at 100, so, how about after achieving the monthly goal, if you reach a second tier before the counter reset, players gets another rewards , better ones for achieving tier 2,3,4,5,6 depending on how much they play? (i hope that is clear, having difficulty explaning what i am thinking)
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#25 Guest 34905

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

And horsecrap on the singling out. Engineers/Mesmers are singled out when it comes to nerfs in patches, and the one time the mesmer was buffed in anything outside of underwater skills (really, who the hell truly cares about that part?), it was revoked shortly after winter vacation ended. If they don't want these two classes doing any damage, why bother having them around?


I take it you never played against a good mesmer?
I can solo the bosses in forest of nilfhell within a couple of seconds right now with mesmer, it's ridiculously strong atm..
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#26 beadnbutter32

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Very glad they are not crossing the line on this. Upping the ability to find people is good, automatically committing you to working with someone you have had no contact with is bad. GW2 instances are team content, algorithms and code can form groups, they can't form teams.


Ha ha ha, like I guess you were not here for Halloween or Winter's day where you got automatically thrown into a group and you were actually prevented from doing things with friends. What a load of pretentious poser BS.

Anet has a way of saying one thing, and the actual thing they hit the ground running with is completely different.
Nerfing AOE's, watch out Guardians and Warriors, your about to lose those sweet multiple target melee attacks where in they won't touch Elementalists. Just watch.
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#27 Kuruptz2

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

You read wrong. He's meaning AoE is as strong against 1 enemy as a single target is against 1 enemy.
AoE should be weaker than a single target skill, it does damage on multiplie enemies.

Example

Singe target does 2k damage = 2k damage

AoE does 2k damage on 5 enemies = 10k damage


That is why some people find dungeons easy in GW2, you just have to AoE everything. Same in WvWvW.


yes i understand that but what happens to a me when i am doing 1v1 if i am not mistaken now d/d aint most attacks AEO?

but sure switch out the spells for single target i wouldnt have a problem if they did that
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#28 DutchAres

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

Its kinda normal that AOE should do less damage then solo target damage.
Same counts for range to short range
Probably best way to balance damage between types is something like:
-short range solo 100%
-medium range solo 90%
-short range AOE 80%
-long range solo 70%
-medium range AOE 60%
-long range AOE 50%

But i dont think that this will change the gameplay, especialy not in wvw..
AOEing a choke point even if it does only 50% the normal damage is still a good way to destroy an army.
Especialy since AOE only hits 5 people, groups bunch up a lot, so only 5 people get hit and mostly not the same if they cast more AOE.
I think a better way to counter this is to reduce the damage of AOE but also remove the 5 people cap.
Especialy make melee weapons hit all clustered people if they are standing on the same spot

What i am more worried about is:
This progression system will give you WvW specific abilities you gain as you work down the progression path and recognition so other players can see your progression.
I dont hope these specific abilities are like stat buffs else you would have the same as gear progression like WOW. And skill is depended on how much you have played and not your play style.

I hope they make it like special only wvw powerfull elite skills you need to charge up by kills/defence and keep take points, after you bought them (also with points). After you use them you need to charge it up again, and their is a timer for atleast a few hours.
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#29 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:31 AM

WvW's problem is that PvE rules apply.
PvE's problem is that it's poorly designed.

But I guess it's easier to just nerf AoE.
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#30 Thamathar

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

I just wonder why no one ask Anet about somethings that they have saided when they where promoting the game, and they are just doing the oposite ...

Like when they have told us that Craft will have an important part on the game, even on end game .... but they are put the craft slowly put aside ... and this goes for Jeweling ... are they going to do the same for other? Making the craft obsolite at end game?

Or when they say that will never do the game, to the point you have to farm like crazy for stuff .... ya, if u want to have an cool skin on the game, specially skin's with glows (beside AC weapons) u have to farm like crazy ...

Why ppl never ask about this on the Q&A ? I just i will know when its the next one, so I can try to ask this questions ....

About the AoE, I will talk about elementalist ... since i have one at 80, and about 760 hour's on it, the AoE on ele, beside dagger's, all have some type of delay .... so its possible for every one just avoid it if they want ... so why complain about it? Scepter, fire, the skill 2 and 3, its preaty easy to avoid them ... and i could keep talking about how to avoid the AoE from Elementalist on scepter and staff ....

I just hope that Anet does this right ... or it will just kill the class Elementalist
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