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Does anyone run P/P in PvE content?

p/p thief builds pve

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#1 TitianVecelli

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

I was thinking maybe something like this, but I'm not great at creating builds yet. Thoughts?

http://gw2skills.net...Dg Te6zAsit/wVB

#2 Loperdos

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

View PostTitianVecelli, on 20 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I was thinking maybe something like this, but I'm not great at creating builds yet. Thoughts?

http://gw2skills.net...Dg Te6zAsit/wVB

A lot of people have no love for a P/P build outside of the usage in a boss fight situation where you want a bit more space between you and the boss and your team doesn't have an effective way of removing the defiant buff in order to interrupt the bosses mega-hits.

That being said, I took a look at your build and it does seem like it would work.  I'm currently experimenting with a combo D/P + P/P build on my own thief with an emphasis of jumping in and out of combat via stealth and evades, plus some extra burst damage from the ability to backstab when in melee range.  Combine that with the ability to almost perma-blind anything that isn't a boss and its quite an amusing build.  

I think taking the SB is probably a good plan, especially given that P/P doesn't really have any real AoE skills (one could argue that, if done correctly at range, Black Powder could be used for an ~ishly AoE blind against a few targets),  My only question would be what kind of gear you are thinking of running with?  The way your build is setup, it seems that you have a large focus on crit as well as condition damage, which is an interesting combination.  The biggest problem that usually comes with running a P/P build is the fact that in order to be really effective you either have to focus on condition damage and your auto attack (+ stealth auto attack) OR you have to focus on power/prec/crit damage for Unload.  Both #2 and #4 on the P/P do not do very impressive damage, with them coming in at a base of 122 and 61 respectively.  #1 would benefit some from power/crit/crit damage, but generally benefits more from condition damage and condition duration because of the bleeds you can stack pretty effectively.

The other issue is that with so many trait points invested in your Critical Strikes line, you almost have to (I say almost because you don't HAVE to, but it would probably be more effective) use gear that increases your precision which then you would want to gear for crit damage % as well to take more advantage of the increased focus on precision.  The reason I say this is because you have a few traits in the Crit Strikes line that proc off of crits, and with only 18% chance to crit (as the tool tip on the side says) it almost isn't worth having those traits given their own built in % chance to trigger (20% and 60% IIRC)

I don't claim to be an expert in any way on thieves, but I saw your build and didn't honestly find much wrong with the trait set-ups or anything like that.  I think too with all your init focused traits, you would probably benefit the most from an Unload + power/prec/crit damage % build over and above a condD/prec build, which is the other possibility given your trait setup.

Hope this helps!

Edited by Loperdos, 22 January 2013 - 12:01 AM.


#3 Rachmani

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:06 PM

Looks like a solid build, solid and rather diverse.
P/P, there is no question about it, is a Power/Precision/crit weapon set, due to unload.
P/ auto attack though, is unfortunately condition focused and does rather bad direct damage.
That is why normally you take as much initiative regeneration as you can get to maximize unload "uptime" and minimize auto attack.
Therefore most P/P builds have quick recovery and look something like this 20/30/0/20/0 or this 0/30/0/20/20.
However, you've got some rather nice synergies going with preparedness, lead attacks & first strikes. Your Unload is definitely going to hurt, and maybe your auto attack is too! I'd say give it a try.
Should you feel like you'd rather unload some more, just spec X/30/Y/20/Z.

#4 TitianVecelli

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

Awesome, thanks for the feedback guys! I'll do some more testing around with gear and the like focusing mainly on Power/Prec/Crit.

#5 Phenn

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

Ima go with Rachmani on this one on his observations regarding maximizing Unload uptime.

Also a few suggestions for playstyle:

First off, here's the build I run in end-game areas for P/P.

Firstly, I as others have said, P/P is MOST viable as a crit-damage set, as you have no inherent access to stealth apart from utilities (which all have long cooldowns). That being said, you're gonna want to maximize constant DPS, making Lead Attacks unreliable--P/P is just not suited for spike damage. I use a 0/30/0/25/15 build to pick up Fluid Strikes. Why? 'Cause as a kiting build, you will ALWAYS have less than 100% endurance. Dodging into combat picks up the bonus instantly, and the bonus can be maintained indefinitely due to the next item...Withdraw.

Withdraw is key in this build. You can either 1) trait for vigor-on-heal (A-III) to maintain nearly-constant vigor. Coupled with Feline Grace, you usually won't run out of dodges. Or you can 2) trait for initiative return on heal (T-XI) which turns Withdraw into a mini-Roll for Initiative. (To be honest, you can trait for both. I didn't 'cause I want Quick Recovery and Fluid Strikes). However you slice it, Withdraw is just too good NOT to use.

By way of explanation, I also dropped T-X (Ricochet) and CS-VII (Ankle Shots). Ricochet is just not good enough to make P/P viable as AoE. Sure it's nice to get an extra hit off every now and again, but there are just too many other good traits to make for CONSISTENT damage--and that's really what you need for P/P. The build just doesn't have good enough spike damage to merit it.

Also, I switch Ankle Shots for CS-X because Unload is awesome with Quickness. However, if you use a Rage sigil, swap CS-X out for CS-IX which gives an extra 5% crit chance for your Unload. Again, it adds more consistent damage. The effect of Ankle Shots can be achieved through Dodgetrops (which you can have 100% uptime on with all your vigor, etc.) which will almost always catch the mobs chasing you as you kite backwards. And yes, you will always kite backwards with Unload because the skill cancels at any oblique angle. Dumb? Yes. This is also reason to drop the 5% damage from side attacks (T-IV)--it's too hard to maintain angles on mobs while avoiding cancelling Unload.

Lastly, utilities are selected for dodges and mobility (Signet of Agility and Shadowstep, respectively) as well as conditions clears. If you're running in Orr and don't have consistent condition clear, you're screwed. Lastly, Roll for Initiative is a stun-break and initiative regen. Coupled with Withdraw, you can put a TON of distance between your enemies and you nearly instantly.

As far as sigils are concerned, I usually have one of Stamina (more dodges, please) and one of Force or Accuracy.

Like I said, my build is geared around viability in high-level areas. P/P needs some love from the devs, for sure, but this build is still fun (important, right?).

Edited by Phenn, 23 January 2013 - 02:50 PM.


#6 TitianVecelli

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:32 AM

@Phenn

I was playing around with positioning and dodging this morning and was noticing literally ALL of the problems you mentioned. Thanks so much for that post. I really do enjoy P/P and now that I'm getting in to Orr your build is going to be great to try out. Cheers!

#7 Threx

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:33 AM

I use P/P and SB as my main sets, swapping to S/P and D/D occasionally. My build is similar to the above poster's. 0/30/0/20/20. You'll have to pick and choose your #6-9 skills depending on the situation, though, since the weapon skills from P/P and SB lack condition clearing.

#8 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

I run P/P in the dungeons I run along with D/D.  Most of the time mobs spread out to much for shortbow and p/p is a stronger single target choice when range is needed.

#9 FinalChaos

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:10 PM

I used to use P/P, but I've switched to D/D as I feel I can burst down targets even quicker and also stealth with 5. PvE-wise, I think it's perfectly viable. PvP-wise, my personal opinion is that it just isn't as strong as D/D (I'm traited for backstab).




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