23 replies to this topic

[Shadowshear]

Hello, all! My name is Shadowshear and I've been lurking for quite some time. However, Something has made enough of an impact on me to make a post.

I shall say this as lightly as possible.

I feel very strong negative emotions toward any Arenanet employee who thinks map completion in World Versus World was anything even remotely resembling a good idea.

That being said, my main has his 100% completion, but it was the biggest pain of my gaming career.

At one point in time, ArenaNet stated that Guild Wars 2 had a Litmus test of "Is it fun?" Well, I can tell you achieving map completion is WvW is NOT anything remotely like fun.

So it fails that test.

Also, ArenaNet decided to intentionally remove the ability to troll in ways such as node stealing and mob stealing, boss camping etc. (thank you) However, They encourage me to run through WvW maps doing nothing to support my server, while consuming one of the limited number of slots avaiable for people of my server to connect to WvW. When completing the maps, I was met with nothing but hostility from my own server-mates and, naturally, from opposing servers. This generated frustration for me, as other servers would gank me, and nothing but frustration for my allies, as I was not contributing to the cause.

I am nothing but a lowly troll while mapping WvW, but ArenaNet forces me, and Encourages me, to troll in this way. I feel terrible, sorry Dragonbrand! :<

Lastly, it takes inordinately long to complete these maps. I must wait for certain towers and keeps to become property of Dragonbrand in order for me to gain their PoI's and Vistas. Fortunately, Dragonbrand's Oceanic presence is strong, so we normally control a lot of land, but its still frustrating for me, I can't imagine the turmoil that some, less populated servers feel.

As anyone can see, there are a multitude of reasons for WvW map completion to say its good-byes, and no reasons whatsoever for it to stay. If the game needs replacements for these lost vistas, PoI's, and Skill challenges, add new ones to the PvE world. Make Southsun Cove count. Add new areas!

So please ArenaNet, 99.99% of your ideas are great ones, this one... was not.

Please comment if you agree but I implore you to if you disagree. I would love to see validation for the existance of map completion in WvW, if such exists. Also, I'd love to show ArenaNet what a mistake this was, and maybe they will change this.

Thank you for listening to this half-rant, half-game suggestion.

Have a great day!

[Impmon]

I was doing map completion today on my 25th lvl guardian... started at 25th and got 2 levels so far from completing the map.  If I can't get to an objective I go another day when its open.  As in there aren't enemies in the area.  Highlight of the day was having an 80th warrior run from me at the skrits.

Few tips;

1.  Equip weapons that give you knockback / CC / Immobolize.  If an enemy attacks use them and run.  Stand near a cliff & knock them off.

2.  Equip utility skills that give swiftness / knockback / CC / Immobolize... see above

3.  Pan the camera around while roaming & check your map.  If you need a skill point and you see crossed swords right beside it... guess what ?  That means a battle is happening and yes you might run into enemy players.

4.  If you rage quit upon dying because  you couldn't get map completion if you see enemies coming quickly click the map and waypoint back to the zone in before they engage.

5.  Ask other players.  I needed help with the spider queen skill point today.  Everytime I engaged enemy players showed up.  Asked in map for help shortly later I had 6 people arrive.  Other people are doing the same as you.  Group up.

[Gaaroth]

Anet done that to encourage you to jump in the WvW map. You should actually play while there, maybe it would be some fun to explore and get POI/Vistas while actually conquering that keep.

My 2 cents

[Swoopeh]

Agreed, I don't like PvP in any game, it makes me rage in seconds. Tried it often enough to decide never to do it again, it's just not my thing. I know I'm not alone in this and those in WvW just doing map completion and not contributing is to no-ones benefit. Same for the monthly tbh, I can't ever complete a monthly because of the WvW part :/

Edited by Swoopeh, 22 January 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Wotah]

Swoopeh, on 22 January 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Agreed, I don't like PvP in any game, it makes me rage in seconds. Tried it often enough to decide never to do it again, it's just not my thing. I know I'm not alone in this and those in WvW just doing map completion and not contributing is to no-ones benefit. Same for the monthly tbh, I can't ever complete a monthly because of the WvW part :/

That's funny because I can't ever complete a monthly because of the PVE part.  

[Leyana]

Which is part of the problem honestly. OP, you aren't the only one who is annoyed by this. I got into this game thinking that I could get what I wanted by doing what I wanted. Now I know better.

@Gaaroth:
Sure that might be one reason ANet did this. It doesn't make it any less of a dumb decision. There are other, less intrusive ways to get people to play different modes like I dunno, making it fun? Having it give better rewards? Playing WvW should be a reward in itself. ANet making it mandatory to play if you ever want to get legendaries or the explorer title was not a very well thought out implementation.

[MrZero]

I could see them putting the jumping puzzles and maybe some kills in as a requirement but I have to admit, the POIs and the Vistas are a bit much.

[Genesis]

I am only a handful of POIs and vistas away from map completion in WvW. But thanks to this map completion requirement, I have been doing WvW regularly - despite my previous PvE focus - and having an absolute blast. I'm not sure when I will get those POIs and vistas, since they are strongly controlled by another server, but I will now be having fun in WvW until said opportunity arises.

[infisio]

I'm having the same problem at the moment.  I'm at 96% of map completion and most of it is in WvW.  This month I finally ventured into WvW because I wanted to complete a Monthly for once.  I learned that I enjoyed WvW, but it's not all I want to play all the time to wait until the moment is right that those Blue and Red Garrisons have finally been captured and I can get those vistas.

I pop in every day during on and off peak hours to see if there are any new areas I can sneak into, but really, because of this I will only be doing Map Completion once.  I won't bother with any other characters.

[infisio]

I have a newb WvWer question related to map completion.  My guildies have told me that occasionally the maps get rotated.  A server that's had the Green Borderlands may switch to Blue/Red.  I've only been playing WvW for about 6 weeks, so I haven't had the time to see if this is the case.  Does this occur? And if so, how often?  

I feel like I'll be at 99% MC forever because we have yet to capture either the Blue or Red garrison.  I log in every day at 3 different times to see if anything new is opened up (but I mostly join in during the evenings when there are more people on who know more strategy than I).

[sjrmoo]

I have no idea on this either, I am in the same server as you and am having the exact same issue.  We have been green for a long time now.  I have been told it can change but so far it has always been green, though I did notice last week the other 2 servers swapped red and blue, so I guess people on their servers got a bit more mapping done just not ours.  Wvw is all I have left for mapping, literally 3 poi/vistas on 3/4 maps.  Really is annoying as in order to get the last points we would have to completely take the map to get the last spots.

[infisio]

Nice to see I'm not alone, but sorry you're in the same boat    The players on Blue and Red must be feeling the same pain.

I really wonder what the players on servers with no/low WvW activity are supposed to do.  I don't mind WvW being part of MC, but I think that the POIs and Vistas should be removed from areas that can be "locked down" and let them remain in open areas of the map.  A player still needs to visit and explore WvW, but isn't hamstrung by the server's ability to capture any particular area.

ETA:  sjrmoo - we may need to recruit our own "mission team" to just attack those locations

Edited by infisio, 05 February 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Wotah]

infisio, on 05 February 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

I have a newb WvWer question related to map completion.  My guildies have told me that occasionally the maps get rotated.  A server that's had the Green Borderlands may switch to Blue/Red.  I've only been playing WvW for about 6 weeks, so I haven't had the time to see if this is the case.  Does this occur? And if so, how often?  

I feel like I'll be at 99% MC forever because we have yet to capture either the Blue or Red garrison.  I log in every day at 3 different times to see if anything new is opened up (but I mostly join in during the evenings when there are more people on who know more strategy than I).

This is probably a great time to do map completions.  The servers are getting rearranged in tiers because of the new rating system.  If you're server had the highest amount of points in the system you are Green, next is blue, then the last place team is the color red.

Green:  Owns the WvW map on the left.  In Eternal Battlegrounds (EB) you will spawn in the SW portion of the map and usually have all the points there.  SM changes hands frequently so it's hit or miss.

Blue: Owns the map on the right.  In EB you will spawn at the SE and will usually have all the points in that area.  SM changes hands frequently so it's hit or miss.

Red: Owns the map in the middle (top).  In EB you will spawn at the North and will usually have all the points there.  SM changes hands frequently so it's hit or miss.

If you own a map (you spawn in the middle 'Citadel':

• It will be easier for you to get the NW, N, Garrison, and NE locations and points.
  
• All southern points are hit and miss, but you may be able to get them with your WvW team.
  
• Or wait until you are a different color (dependent on the scoring that Anet uses)

If you don't own a map (i.e you spawn from left or right):

• It will be easier for you to get the locations closest to your spawn.
  
• All Northern points are hit and miss depending on how well you are doing in that area.
  
• You can also wait until you are a different color that owns that portion of the map.

All of this can be done if you're in WvW in any zone.  You don't actually need to own the area, but it makes it easier to grab those points.

[Tyrantscreed]

Off topic:

Leyana, on 22 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Playing WvW should be a reward in itself. ANet making it mandatory to play if you ever want to get legendaries or the explorer title was not a very well thought out implementation.

Making WvW mandatory for Legendaries does make sense, because Legendaries are the pinnacle of weaponry that shows that you have done it all. Each gift that you earn shows expertise in different areas of the game (apart from the precursor which involves having the God of Luck on your side when you try to attain it from the MF)

Also before you say it, Gift of Fortune shows your ability to collect wealth.

All in all, a legendary bearer is one who has explored all of Tyria – aiding it’s citizens along the way, conquered said dungeons, mastered the art of crafting, earned respectable amount of wealth, defended it’s home from invaders while conquering others and have paid sufficient tribute to the God of Luck (aka Zomorros) to attain the “mythical” precursor.

I don’t know about you – but completing all the said achievements above sounds pretty bad ass to me, and apart from the “unique” weapon look, gives a lot of prestige to the weilder – it truly is legendary. (ANet could also work on making them look better lol)

Now I, like many others hate the RNG precursor system, but until other means have emerged, that is all we have for now, and sadly many people have hit a full stop on their legendary progression due to the God of Luck not being on their side :|

On topic:

OP, I understand your frustration and that of your allies, the best way to get WvW map completion is to roll with your server and actually help them conquer/defend while slowly completing your map completion, that way everyone wins.

That being said, I understand that some PvE'ers do not like WvW and it's difficult for them to get 100% world - and hence I do agree that WvW completion should be removed from map completion, but NOT the badges required to make a legendary.

Just my 2 cents.

[MrZero]

Tyrantscreed, on 05 February 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

Off topic:



Making WvW mandatory for Legendaries does make sense, because Legendaries are the pinnacle of weaponry that shows that you have done it all. Each gift that you earn shows expertise in different areas of the game (apart from the precursor which involves having the God of Luck on your side when you try to attain it from the MF)

Also before you say it, Gift of Fortune shows your ability to collect wealth.

All in all, a legendary bearer is one who has explored all of Tyria – aiding it’s citizens along the way, conquered said dungeons, mastered the art of crafting, earned respectable amount of wealth, defended it’s home from invaders while conquering others and have paid sufficient tribute to the God of Luck (aka Zomorros) to attain the “mythical” precursor.

I don’t know about you – but completing all the said achievements above sounds pretty bad ass to me, and apart from the “unique” weapon look, gives a lot of prestige to the weilder – it truly is legendary. (ANet could also work on making them look better lol)

Now I, like many others hate the RNG precursor system, but until other means have emerged, that is all we have for now, and sadly many people have hit a full stop on their legendary progression due to the God of Luck not being on their side :|

On topic:

OP, I understand your frustration and that of your allies, the best way to get WvW map completion is to roll with your server and actually help them conquer/defend while slowly completing your map completion, that way everyone wins.

That being said, I understand that some PvE'ers do not like WvW and it's difficult for them to get 100% world - and hence I do agree that WvW completion should be removed from map completion, but NOT the badges required to make a legendary.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Where I disagree is that PVE objectives account for at least 96% of obtaining a legendary. Does it suck for the pve player? Yes. It sucks worse for the player that dislikes all that mind numbing pve. Not to mention the time it takes to do all the pve requirements far outweighs the time it takes to do the wvw stuff.

THis will sound insulting but so be it. It humors me to see the PVE people bitching about having to do a minority of content to get a legendary while the wvw players aren't really saying a damn thing.

[Tyrantscreed]

MrZero, on 05 February 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Where I disagree is that PVE objectives account for at least 96% of obtaining a legendary. Does it suck for the pve player? Yes. It sucks worse for the player that dislikes all that mind numbing pve. Not to mention the time it takes to do all the pve requirements far outweighs the time it takes to do the wvw stuff.

THis will sound insulting but so be it. It humors me to see the PVE people bitching about having to do a minority of content to get a legendary while the wvw players aren't really saying a damn thing.

Amen to that. It's good to be someone who likes both WvW and the occasional PvE...phew!

[Xukaiwen]

Yeah, Legendaries are a joke to me.  I feel I'm about as likely to get a Legendary as to win the lottery.  I'm not even trying and I have no intent to chase after it.  This is mostly because of the way precursors are obtained.

I also completely agree with Tyrantscreed who says that mapping should be removed but the 500 badge of honor requirement should not.  The 500 badge req actually encourages people to contribute to their server.  The mapping requirement, as stated by the OP, does the opposite.

I hear there are bugs with the queue system and people wondering about how there are queues when it seems like no one is actually in the map.  I can't help but wonder how much of the problem is really mappers.  I know when I was mapping all the Borderlands, I just ran around by myself contributing absolutely nothing to my server.  I was basically invisible and entirely useless.  I've grown up a bit in WvW since then, but that is because I found WvW fun *after* I stopped mapping.

Edited by Xukaiwen, 06 February 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[Impmon]

For the people who can't do their wvw map completion I see most of you mention not being able to do it alone.  As I suggested previously you CAN ask for help from other people.  While you stand there raging about not being able to get that vista theres probably 5 other people doing the same.  Combine your rage & use the dark side of the force to get that vista and then you can run back to your completionist ideals.

[Xukaiwen]

Impmon, on 06 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

For the people who can't do their wvw map completion I see most of you mention not being able to do it alone.  As I suggested previously you CAN ask for help from other people.  While you stand there raging about not being able to get that vista theres probably 5 other people doing the same.  Combine your rage & use the dark side of the force to get that vista and then you can run back to your completionist ideals.

Hahah!  What, isn't working together part of the light side of the Force?

Anyway, there's some things a happy-go-lucky little PUG can't do.  For example, I'm a player in T2 and a very skilled and organized server is in first place in T2.  There's no way in... Kentucket... that even with the whole might of my entire server that I will be able to map some of their keeps.  This has been the case for several weeks as there are currently four top-tier servers with a serious drop off to the fifth and sixth place servers.  (Guess which server I'm on?)

Not a big deal.  I'll wait patiently.  But I still think that the 500 Badges of Honor requirement is enough to encourage people to join WvW and enough hard work to earn part of a Legendary.  Mapping WvW is unnecessary and counter-productive.

[tryp]

The theory of play with your server to ge to the points is fine if your server stands a chance.

What if your server is at the bttom of the table and barley ever make a dent on the other server.

My server for example never gets anything in WvW some vistas are in places we never reach. Meaning I could be the most active player but will never get World Completion cause our server is too weak or in active.

Before any one mentiosn the new match up system we are the lowest ranked server so it does not matter who we get matched upagainst some points will for ever be out of our reach.

So it is neither about fun or proof of your dedication to the game. It is simply impossible to get to certain places. Badges I can get that fine hell make it 2000 badges I dont care. So long as its achivable by every one in the game. But for the low end servers it is unfair.


There are options fix my problem.
* Merge a bunch of the low pop servers
* Allow WvW in guesting once a week or once a month even.
* Allow WvW guesting with no rewards other than map completion
* Move the map completion items to places any one can reach irelavent of what teritory is held

I am not a game designer and I came up with these solutions. Surly a real team of game devs could resolve this problem with even better solutions?

[Wardi]

Well, I have problem like that at the moment. I have all borderlands 100% completed, and 90% in Eternal Battlegrounds. Only 2 PoIs and 2 Vistas are left. All of them are very close to green spawn point (Aldon's Ledge, Jerrifer's Slough and Lowlands keep) and they are never captured by us (blue) and even by other opposing server (red).

Reds are pwning us in general, and as mesmer I did several "tricks" on invis, like ninja-capping. Just waited till reds will break greens' gate, get there on invis (Veil + Mass Invis elite), pick PoI and blink away. But these three places are never attacked. So I decided to wait till WvW friday reset.

My question is: how colours are assigned? If we were green, I'd have these PoIs and Vistas quite easily. My server (Far Shiverpeaks) was red before this Friday, now we're blue, so that means that next week we'll be green? Is it clock-wise or randomly selected? Or maybe in another way?

Also, I'm raging at this ANet's idea aswell. WvW counting to map completion is terrible and frustrating thing.

Edited by Wardi, 16 June 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Brunella]

Wotah, on 22 January 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

That's funny because I can't ever complete a monthly because of the PVE part.  

Really? Why is that are you afraid of mobs? I think you are just trolling tho.
I too do not like to have to do the WvW part to complete the maps, but it's ok I'm not doing it I'm just waiting for another game, which is just around the corner for me.
ANet was such a disappoint to me with GW2 ...I cannot get over it I tried to like it but really I cannot. I will never ever buy one of their game ever!
To me games = Fun not frustration!

[prince vingador]

sorry to ask,but i dont www a lot,but i red some time ago that u can do the vistas in www in a diferent map no?i thought u had a choice when u press to go www(go to vistas,or to the battle ground)

[beadnbutter32]

I did my 100% map completion just for the title, forget about legendarys.  

I am on one of the bottom of the ladder WvW worlds, so it was not a walk in the park, but it took me less than a month to get all of my WvW POIs, waypoints and vistas as well as skill points (might as well if your there, save a future trip.)  With the new map rotation you do eventually get a pretty good chance to reach every point.

What's the big deal, is a little patience too much to ask.  Is taking a small part in one of the major portions of the game really such a cross to bear?

I was not a big WvW fan before map completion brought me into contact with it and now it's my favorite GW2 activity.