Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Elixir gun/Flamethrower?


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Rhoellan Alts

Rhoellan Alts

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

New engy here and after looking at some of these forums and posts, I have a few questions.  I like the idea of the elixir gun (I am level 21 now), but as someone pointed out, it doesn't do a lot of direct damage and works ok for AOE.  I figure, like many of you have said, that you really need traits to maximize the DPS.

So I was wondering for those of you who use a EG as the main kit if:
  • What you switched to (flamethrower/rifle/nades etc).  What has good synergy?
  • How did you trait?
  • What skills do you use?
  • Can you do decent DPS and support at the same time?
I will solo some, eventually play in groups and dungeons a lot and hope to attain a good hybrid (decent DPS, AOE, heals and buffs for group).

Not the best, or top the charts, but decent and "viable".  Hate that word.

Anyways, your feedback is appreciated!

#2 Sagramor

Sagramor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

You're gonna see this a lot, but everything is viable.

#3 Rhoellan Alts

Rhoellan Alts

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

Hence why I hate the word.  Strike it from the post.  Moving forward past the definition of viable, do you have any insights to share?

#4 shiggidyshwa

shiggidyshwa

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostSagramor, on 23 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

You're gonna see this a lot, but everything is viable.

Ya I agree. If you want max a max optimum damage setup, players will tell you to use Grenade Kit, but there's no reason you can't play around.

I'm only a level 39 but I slot in the Elixir Gun when I run in groups. Super Elixir is a great heal and the toolbelt skill is awesome coupled with the Healing Turret's toolbelt skill. I usually use dual Pistols and Turrets, and whip out the E Gun when I think my party needs some healing.

#5 Sagramor

Sagramor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

For leveling I ran almost exclusively with EG once I got it, so It's definitely doable. I'm not one for constantly switching kits/weapons either so it was essentially my main weapon. Worked out well with 10/30/0/30/0 and Elixirs H/B/R(or S) (@80). You may not do a lot of dmg, but you can kite like a pro, and offer good group support.

#6 matsif

matsif

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1516 posts
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

I personally only really use the elixir gun for the regen toolbelt skill (even then most of the time I forget it), the jump back on skill 4 for a quick escape, and the heal aoe on skill 5.  the rest of the time I'm using my flamethrower.  trait-wise there are some flamethrower traits that also affect the EG, which is why I normally carry it over another elixir with my FT.  as for other kits, I don't carry it with grenades as at 1500 range stuff either dies before it gets to you or you have plenty of room to move around to avoid/dodge.  I haven't really tried bombs so far but I'd assume I'd use it similarly to how I use the EG with the flamethrower or not use it at all like with grenades.

#7 Osiris Neits

Osiris Neits

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 94 posts

Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:54 PM

Here's the build I used to level to 80:
http://gw2skills.net...FSogBqQeJSxj1YA
With the kit refinement trait, you can keep a Super Elixir up through most of a fight.

I use pistol/pistol, but I rarely ever actually use them, I constantly switch between the FT and EG. Keep Elixir B and all the toolbelt skills on cd.

I leveled this toon to 80 mostly while playing in groups, and it's a fairly tanky, supporty build, but does enough dps to go solo as well.

I have a lvl 80 toon of every class except Mesmer and Necro (both of those are in their 70's), and my engineer is one of my favorites to play, mainly because of the 2 gun kits.

#8 coglin

coglin

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1402 posts
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[MoG]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

I use elixir gun in groups a lot to spam weakness and poison on the harder hitting mobs and bosses. I use the kit refinement trait and super elixir to remove conditions and add to the healing. FT I use to sweep keeps to make sure no one is hiding in the corners using invisibility and culling issues to hide. I occasionally use it in WvW. The FT isn't bad for PvE, but it does have some targeting issues.

There is nothing new we can tell you that the other plethora of threads on this topic cannot tell you. Would have been easier for everyone if you simply read one of those to be honest.

Edited by coglin, 23 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.


#9 draxynnic

draxynnic

    Lorebug

  • Moderators
  • 7682 posts
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:42 AM

Grenades are regarded as the engineer's primary DPS weapon, but I'm not sure how well they actually synergise. An elixir gun can certainly provide support to compliment a grenade kit, but if you're focussing on the elixir gun, you probably want a very different set of attributes to a grenadier, while flamethrowers have obvious synergy.

The standard FT/EG build normally has 30 firearms, at least 20 alchemy and at least 10 tools. If you're focusing on the elixir gun rather than the flamethrower, though, you might consider not taking Juggernaught and spending the points elsewhere - Inventions might be worth considering, for instance. Deadly Mixture also doesn't help the elixir gun a lot because the EG doesn't do much 'white' damage to begin with - you're mainly relying on conditions - so you might forego the alchemy as well.

At low levels, I found that elixir gun pretty much outclassed pistols - most things pistols could do, the elixir gun did better and with longer range. Using a rifle gives even more control/escape options as well as providing a source of large amounts of white damage that doesn't have some of the problems of the flamethrower (such as the miss bug - especially problematic when destroying objects, since the FT is more likely to bug on them and they don't suffer conditions - destroying any object with engineer pistols or elixir gun is an exercise in patience at best). This may change at higher levels where attribute setup (power versus condition damage) and the attribute bonuses on the pistol that are lost with a kit become more important - while I have a level 80 engineer, though, since around 50ish I've focused on either rifle/FT/EG, or pistol+shield/toolkit/Static Discharge, and so haven't directly compared pistol to EG at higher levels with a good pistol (especially since at the moment I have a distinct shortage of top-end pistols).
Got any comments or queries about moderation in one of my spheres of responsibility? Make sure I get the message!

#10 Calebrus

Calebrus

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 95 posts
  • Location:In a van down by the river

Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:28 AM

I run a hybrid support build.
http://gw2skills.net...m0geUf9yXRKyfjB
That's basically the build I use.  Some things change as the situation requires, but one thing that NEVER changes is eGun.  It is always on my bar. Always.
Flamethrower usually occupies one of the slots that Rocket Boots and Elixir B are in.  I left both of them there to showcase them, but only one of them is usually actually on my bar.  If I'm expecting a need for a stunbreaker or another escape, RB is equipped. If I'll need the boons then eB is equipped.  For bosses, the set-up shown is usually exactly what I use.
For non-boss fights, more often than not I have RBoots there (with the FT), because it has offense (toolbelt), it has defense (stunbreaker), it has mobility (umm.... they're rocket boots!), and finally it's a blast finisher.  One of the best utility skills Engy has IMO.

The second (20 pt) major traits in both Alchemy and Tools are interchangeable based on needs.
Running around the world? Speedy Kits in Tools. (This is only when I have a long way to run and don't want to stop. For general purposes, eB and MedKit5 are enough.)
That build brings a ton of support to the table. Does your group need even more? Packaged Stimulants in Tools and Form 409 in Alchemy (with eGun, eB and eR - no flamethrower in this situation).
Headed into WvW? Sometimes I'll use Protection Injection or Self Regulating Defenses in Alchemy instead.
You get the idea.

The support that eGun brings with Kit Refinement is amazing. Perma-Super Elixir for AoE healing, on demand condition removal and a perma-light field (more condition removal with projectiles) is fantastic support.  Coupled with Supply Drop, anything from the MedKit, and eGun 1-3, there are few builds that can offer as much support.
For large groups of mobs up close, FT is my kit.  If you can handle proximity it's the best DPS in my load.  For groups of mobs at range I use my pistol because Coated Bullets is awesome. For bosses and heavy hitters I have eGun for perma-weakness.
The DPS obviously isn't what a Grenadier will put out, but it isn't terrible either, and the versatility and support offered more than makes up for it in my mind.

There are some rare occasions when I'll use a rifle instead, but only if CC is needed and no one else can handle it.  I simply don't like the rifle much, but I'll use it if I have to.  The reason I don't like the rifle doesn't actually have anything to do with the rifle itself.  I dislike the rifle because it prevents me from using my shield.
Projectile reflection, a knockback, and a blast finisher all on one skill.
A two second block, a stun or an AoE daze in a line (which could be two dazes if done properly) and a projectile finisher on the other skill.
In my opinion the Engineer's shield has one of the best sets of skills in the entire game, and it does it all on only two buttons.

Edited by Calebrus, 24 January 2013 - 04:40 AM.


#11 Sagramor

Sagramor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

To those of you recommending Condition Damage gear for EG I'll direct you to this thread over at the official forums.
https://forum-en.gui...lixir-gun-build

#12 Kurosov

Kurosov

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 593 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[TAC]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

Grenades and bombs work great with pretty much any other set of utilities but flamethrower has a lot of synergy when traits are taken into account. Also, the elixir gun can hit pretty hard with acid bomb as long as foes are immobile (something that is really easy for a engineer to do).

I like to swap builds often to keep things fresh but when playing specifically with elixir gun in mind i always bring the flamethrower and Elixir R. As usual though, don't be afraid to swap out even your "main" kit in a dungeon run etc for something else if it is more useful. I find engineer is the profession that changes utilities and even heal skills on the fly much more often than any other and said utility skills are far more valuable than any other profession.

#13 Bariusdrop

Bariusdrop

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 388 posts

Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

To use elixir gun/flamethrower your build pretty much requires a 0/20/0/20/0 split to get both of the traits. Most players take their firearms up to 30 for juggernaut (and because every engineer weapon benefits from firearms). From there you can consider taking 30 in alchemy as well for Backpack Regenerator or to make your elixirs better. As mentioned above 10 in Tools for Kit Refinement or Speedy Kits (if you swap alot) is also a good choice. Personally for my flamethrower build right now I am using 10/30/0/30/0. I did it in order to pick up Incendiary Powder since I really like the synergy of the flamethrower 1 (10 quick opportunities to crit) and I often play with a necromancer, burning being the only condition she's lacking in. When I run with a group of heavy-offense players (most PuGs), I swap for the Elixir Gun and I find it works well enough for condition removal/group regen. If I need more I throw on the healing turret. As mentioned above Elixir Gun actually scales much better with direct damage, as fumigate is almost entirely to put poison on a mob you think is about to receive healing. Take 10 in tools if you want to main elixir gun, but if you're like me and only equip it for the occasional dungeon run then you can skip it. It won't become a big deal until you get into really organized groups farming dungeons.

#14 coglin

coglin

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1402 posts
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[MoG]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

View PostSagramor, on 24 January 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

To those of you recommending Condition Damage gear for EG I'll direct you to this thread over at the official forums.
https://forum-en.gui...lixir-gun-build
Just be warned, any thread in which "casia" makes mathematical assessments is destined to be riddled with inaccuracies. For example, he compares condition damage to direct damage, and when he does he literally only counts the condition damage of a skill, and never combines the direct damage and the condition damage of a skill in his comparison.

#15 Sagramor

Sagramor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

In practice I've found Fumigate to be relatively useless as a damaging ability, and that Tranq Dart doesn't stack bleeds well enough to warrant investing in conditions when Acid Bomb and Elixir F both hit for pretty hard DD. I'll usually use Fumigate right before an Acid Bomb if I can just for the Vulnerability, or on a mob that heals. Almost never as a damaging attack.

Condition damage for EG is just gravy. If you wanna stack bleeds with an Engineer go with Grenades.

#16 coglin

coglin

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1402 posts
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[MoG]
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostSagramor, on 25 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

In practice I've found Fumigate to be relatively useless as a damaging ability,

Yes, but is a great debuff against healing, such as the boss at the end of CoF path one that has constant healing.

#17 Sagramor

Sagramor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:09 PM

Didn't read my whole post apparently.

"I'll usually use Fumigate right before an Acid Bomb if I can just for the Vulnerability, or on a mob that heals."

#18 Phineas Poe

Phineas Poe

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1219 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sea of Sorrows

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostRhoellan Alts, on 23 January 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

So I was wondering for those of you who use a EG as the main kit if:
  • What you switched to (flamethrower/rifle/nades etc).  What has good synergy?
  • How did you trait?
  • What skills do you use?
  • Can you do decent DPS and support at the same time?
I will solo some, eventually play in groups and dungeons a lot and hope to attain a good hybrid (decent DPS, AOE, heals and buffs for group).

Based on your expectations (solo, group-play, and dungeons) the Elixir Gun will suit you just fine. It works best in conjunction with the Flamethrower. I run a 30/20/20 split between Firearms, Alchemy, and Tools. For more info, you can check out my thread on the build, though it hasn't been updated lately. When leveling, I would prioritize filling out Firearms and Tools. Alchemy should be leveled up last at each tier.

You can do decent DPS and support---with great survivability too! Save up your Karma for P/V/T gear while leveling. Each slot costs 42,000 Karma each. In the mean time, focus on Power. Pair your FT/EG with the Rifle and build it into your rotation. Not only is it better DPS than spamming FT's #1 skill, but it's more fun too!***

Jewelry can be whatever you like. I mix and match between damage and tanky jewelry as needed ... usually a mix of Emerald and Rubies. But Sapphire wouldn't hurt either.

Some people like to use Elixir Gun with the Grenade Kit, with 30 in Explosives. I don't. So I cannot comment on how it works with that.


***This may not be true with the latest patch that boosted our kits' base damage. I would argue that it is still more fun.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 30 January 2013 - 07:59 PM.


#19 Sagramor

Sagramor

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostPhineas_Poe, on 30 January 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

***This may not be true with the latest patch that boosted our kits' base damage. I would argue that it is still more fun.

Whether or not the base damage got buffed or not I can't say because I don't have pre-patch numbers, but this is what happened in the patch.

  • Weapons now continue to grant bonus stats while bundles are equipped.
  • Bundles from player skills (engineer kits, elementalist conjured weapons, warrior banners) now have base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.


#20 Rhoellan Alts

Rhoellan Alts

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:33 AM

So EG and Flamethrower both should have got a significant buff?  Weird, I can't seem to tell the difference.  Again, I am not max level, so I thought I would notice a significant difference.  Either way, someone mentioned that it (the patch) would help the turrets as well, but I can't seem to find anything to that fact.  

Thanks all BTW for the input!!

#21 Phineas Poe

Phineas Poe

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1219 posts
  • Location:Washington, DC
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sea of Sorrows

Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:52 AM

I can't give a true calculated comparison, but I'm consistently dishing out over 2K per blast now on a lot of targets with Flame Jet with full Emerald jewelry and a mix of Berserker's and P/V/T.

Definitely a buff. Haven't tried turrets yet but they're likely pointing to this part:
  • Gadgets placed by players (such as turrets) will now apply boons and conditions based on those players' stats. Those conditions and boons will not be reduced to level-1 values when the triggering gadget is destroyed.

Seems like a buff mostly toward the Flame and Healing Turrets.

Edited by Phineas_Poe, 31 January 2013 - 06:54 AM.


#22 Isti

Isti

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 82 posts
  • Guild Tag:[LotD]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

View PostSagramor, on 30 January 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Whether or not the base damage got buffed or not I can't say because I don't have pre-patch numbers, but this is what happened in the patch.
  • Weapons now continue to grant bonus stats while bundles are equipped.
  • Bundles from player skills (engineer kits, elementalist conjured weapons, warrior banners) now have base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.

I'm just back to the game following an extended absence to buy and move into a house.  Just for grins, I put on a 0/30/10/20/10 build for WvW and a jaunt through AC, and I was all kinds of confused.  Went back over my stats twice, because I was dead certain I hadn't been able to kill things so quickly with FT before I went on hiatus!

Also, re: Fumigate, if I get to use it to poison hostiles, that's gravy.  The reason it's such a good skill is that you can aim it at friendlies and clear their conditions.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users