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The Power of Nonsense

mesmers necromancers elementalist overpowered cheap wut? gameplay nerf clones

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#1 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

So, I main a Necromancer class now, and I have to say after using most every class. Mesmers are nonsense. Pure utterly complete nonsense. Being able to make portals for teammates to continuously return to camping a jump puzzle, clones, ridiculous toughness stacks, clones, nonsensical condition damage, clones, extremely powerful basic weapon skills, clones, and all around ease of use make me hate any Mesmer I see on the battlefield almost automatically. I'm not really sure if it's even humanly possible to beat a skilled Mesmer without a dozen people backing you up. Even then it's iffy. Again, I main a Necromancer, king of conditions. I should be able to send all of my conditions back to his annoying pink self, but I can't figure out which one is him, so I have to waste 2 slots so that I can send the conditions on 1 enemy, to all enemies, but it's still not enough. Essentially I have to waste all of my slots just for a fair shot at surviving 30 seconds, let alone doing damage to a Mesmer.

Firstly, the point of this is to get your opinions on the Mesmer's utter nonsense, if you agree please state why and your experiences of Mesmer ridiculousness. If you disagree, please state how *you* deal with them.

#2 dawdler

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

You can stack toughness now?! That would be awesome!

Either way, I disagree with you. I can even state how *I* deal with them - I have an 80 Mesmer. That's how.

#3 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:24 PM

View Postdawdler, on 23 January 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

You can stack toughness now?! That would be awesome!

Either way, I disagree with you. I can even state how *I* deal with them - I have an 80 Mesmer. That's how.

Yes, toughness stacks on light armor (multiple boons and traits in conjunction with toughness), make scholars effective tanks. The most effective tank being Necromancers, doesn't matter against Mesmers though. Also, good for you.

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#4 Alyssa

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

There are videos on youtube you can watch, and I'm sure guides you can find, on how your class can play vs. every other class in-game. The other suggestion I can make to you is, make a Mesmer, play it for awhile, and see what its strengths/weaknesses are and adjust your play accordingly.

edit: Nice tags btw. :mellow:

Edited by Alyssa, 23 January 2013 - 05:27 PM.


#5 Yski

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:29 PM

They aren't the easiest opponents to fight, but certainly not impossible. Keep an eye out for shatters - if you see all the clones start running towards you it's time to dodge. Stack conditions on the mesmer, use aoe to deal with the illusions and keep your distance.

Also, if you want to play dirty, call a target on the real mesmer. That way you'll always know which one to aim for.

Edited by Yski, 23 January 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#6 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostAlyssa, on 23 January 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

There are videos on youtube you can watch, and I'm sure guides you can find, on how your class can play vs. every other class in-game. The other suggestion I can make to you is, make a Mesmer, play it for awhile, and see what its strengths/weaknesses are and adjust your play accordingly.

edit: Nice tags btw. :mellow:

I have played a Mesmer for a while, it had no weaknesses. It's not squishy, it's not weak. Purely ridiculous in every aspect of it's skill sets. Ontop of that, I ask anyone in WvW or PvP what they think of Mesmers, and they think they are overpowered. It's a rather wide consensus. The only people that don't seem to hate Mesmers, are Mesmers.

I'm not saying they're omgwtfhaxbbq... they're just extraordinarily difficult to fight compared to any other class in the game.

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 05:31 PM.


#7 Lordkrall

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I have played a Mesmer for a while, it had no weaknesses. It's not squishy, it's not weak. Purely ridiculous in every aspect of it's skill sets. Ontop of that, I ask anyone in WvW or PvP what they think of Mesmers, and they think they are overpowered. It's a rather wide consensus. The only people that don't seem to hate Mesmers, are Mesmers.

So what you more or less means is: "I am not good enough to beat Mesmers, so mesmers are overpowered"?

Mesmers have weaknesses. Deny them their clones and their main source of damage is gone.
Clones have very little life and go down extremely fast.
Another thing to do is dodge the shatters, quite easy since the clones needs to run forward to you.

Mesmers are very squishy without their clones.

#8 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 23 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

So what you more or less means is: "I am not good enough to beat Mesmers, so mesmers are overpowered"?

Mesmers have weaknesses. Deny them their clones and their main source of damage is gone.
Clones have very little life and go down extremely fast.
Another thing to do is dodge the shatters, quite easy since the clones needs to run forward to you.

Mesmers are very squishy without their clones.

What you're talking about requires extremely powerful AoE spells, which the Necromancer only has one of. Well of suffering. Which the Mesmer can move out of. Also, Mesmers are not very squishy, infact they seem to have one of the best armor ratings/health pools. Granted they aren't tanks, they're still not as easy to kill as say Engineers or Thieves. I can kill any class in a 1v1 PvP except Mesmer.

#9 Alex Dimitri

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:36 PM

Heheh, i beat the "nonsense" by havin` 2 Mesmers on my account one "zerker" the other one "conditions" !
Well without clones what would Mesmers be, i`ll tell you what Necromancer in pink !!!

I also have Necromancer (stacked with toughness & conditions) the only difference here would be that Necros have terrible attacks speed if you didn`t notice (post is aimed at OP) !

p.s. You can juggle 5 pins and cast spells at the same time if on the other side of "beating stick" is someone that knows to play better then you, you end up dead (class doesn`t make that much difference) !
This comming from a person that has 8 chars (lvl 80 geared) all but Thief classes (i hate those) !

#10 Yski

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

What you're talking about requires extremely powerful AoE spells, which the Necromancer only has one of. Well of suffering. Which the Mesmer can move out of. Also, Mesmers are not very squishy, infact they seem to have one of the best armor ratings/health pools. Granted they aren't tanks, they're still not as easy to kill as say Engineers or Thieves. I can kill any class in a 1v1 PvP except Mesmer.
Epidemic for condition builds would like to say hi and so would staff marks and Life Transfer, to name a few. Spamming all your marks on the mesmer followed by Life Transfer is going to hurt the mesmer a lot while wiping out all his clones and same goes to sharing a stack of 15 bleeds with epidemic.

Just pressure the mesmer while using some aoe every now and then and you shouldn't have too much of a problem assuming you keep an eye out of shatters.

Edited by Yski, 23 January 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#11 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostAlex Dimitri, on 23 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Heheh, i beat the "nonsense" by havin` 2 Mesmers on my account one "zerker" the other one "conditions" !
Well without clones what would Mesmers be, i`ll tell you what Necromancer in pink !!!

I also have Necromancer (stacked with toughness & conditions) the only difference here would be that Necros have terrible attacks speed if you didn`t notice (post is aimed at OP) !

p.s. You can juggle 5 pins and cast spells at the same time if on the other side of "beating stick" is someone that knows to play better then you, you end up dead (class doesn`t make that much difference) !
This comming from a person that has 8 chars (lvl 80 geared) all but Thief classes (i hate those) !

Necromancer is pretty bad for damage, attack speed, and AoE spells. However he is easily one of the toughest classes in the game. With Death Shroud, Lich Mode, strong self-healing, high HP pool, and toughness stacks I think Necromancer makes the best tank class. Doesn't matter though, unfortunately. Mesmers remind me of thieves mixed with necromancers mixed with elementalists. They're just incredibly annoying and hard to kill, even without clones. Skill doesn't play all that big a role. I've fought many 1v1s in WvW and won almost all of them using low-level gear and weaponry just based on strategy and skill. However, no amount of skill seems to help me or my team against Mesmers. Infact it took 14 players 10 minutes to kill a single mesmer the other day.

View PostYski, on 23 January 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Epidemic for conditions builds would like to say hi and so would staff marks and Life Transfer, to name a few. Spamming all your marks on the mesmer followed by Life Transfer is going to hurt the mesmer a lot while wiping out all his clones and same goes to sharing a stack of 15 bleeds with epidemic.

Read above. I have to waste 2 skill slots for that, and it still doesn't do enough. Granted I have a slight advantage being able to heal myself per condition, once again the Necromancer being the king of conditions, but even with all of that it doesn't seem to end a tank-built Mesmer fast enough before I'm literally flooded with clones and conditions. Getting by just on staff marks isn't nearly enough to kill a Mesmer so easily as you make it seem.

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 05:45 PM.


#12 Lordkrall

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

What you're talking about requires extremely powerful AoE spells, which the Necromancer only has one of. Well of suffering. Which the Mesmer can move out of. Also, Mesmers are not very squishy, infact they seem to have one of the best armor ratings/health pools. Granted they aren't tanks, they're still not as easy to kill as say Engineers or Thieves. I can kill any class in a 1v1 PvP except Mesmer.

Extremely powerful? More or less every single auto-attack can 2 hit kill clones. Some can with 1.

The Necromancers have several abilities to quickly kill the clones (and who said you had to kill all of them at once? Even killing just one cuts the damage Mesmers do quite much.) You have minions, you have wells, you have marks. Not to mention your auto-attacks which all can kill clones very fast.

Mesmers are squishy.
Try attacking a Mesmer without him using his clones and he will die very fast.

#13 Darkobra

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

What you're talking about requires extremely powerful AoE spells, which the Necromancer only has one of. Well of suffering. Which the Mesmer can move out of.

Sorry. Did you just say the MESMER can move out of it? Not the CLONES? And you have no idea how to tell them apart? Going to let that sink in for a minute.

Oh, you're very welcome by the way. Mesmers are nowhere near as powerful as you make them out to be. It really does come down to a learn to play issue.

#14 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 23 January 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Extremely powerful? More or less every single auto-attack can 2 hit kill clones. Some can with 1.

The Necromancers have several abilities to quickly kill the clones (and who said you had to kill all of them at once? Even killing just one cuts the damage Mesmers do quite much.) You have minions, you have wells, you have marks. Not to mention your auto-attacks which all can kill clones very fast.

Mesmers are squishy.
Try attacking a Mesmer without him using his clones and he will die very fast.

Have you ever fought a tank-built Mesmer? Good luck.

View PostDarkobra, on 23 January 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Sorry. Did you just say the MESMER can move out of it? Not the CLONES? And you have no idea how to tell them apart? Going to let that sink in for a minute.

Oh, you're very welcome by the way. Mesmers are nowhere near as powerful as you make them out to be. It really does come down to a learn to play issue.

Let me guess, you use Mesmer? Guardian?

I can usually tell the difference between a clone, or a real player. However when the battlefield becomes cluttered with clones and invisible morons running around going 'Teehee' as they spam every condition known to man on you, it becomes a bit confusing, wouldn't you say?

#15 Lordkrall

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Have you ever fought a tank-built Mesmer? Good luck.

Please tell me about these "tank-built" Mesmers.

Rather interesting that you completely ignored 95% my post though.

#16 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 23 January 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Please tell me about these "tank-built" Mesmers.

Rather interesting that you completely ignored 95% my post though.

Because you obviously don't know anything about Necromancer. "You have wells" Yes, I have 1 powerful AoE well. The rest? Condition and boon changers, which waste the precious slots I have to use armor and condition spreaders. Just about the only tool I've found that does wonders again Mesmers happens to be Plague form, which is extremely powerful against them. However, that's about it. Marks aren't strong enough to defeat Mesmers as easily as you make it sound.

Also, you do realize that Scholars make some of the best tanks, right?

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 05:54 PM.


#17 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

Mesmers have light armor and medium health just the opposite of thieves.

I like the story of the 14 players to kill one Mes. Btw what server is that? I'd like to take my Mes there when free guesting starts. I need more WvW badges.

#18 Darkobra

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Let me guess, you use Mesmer? Guardian?

I can usually tell the difference between a clone, or a real player. However when the battlefield becomes cluttered with clones and invisible morons running around going 'Teehee' as they spam every condition known to man on you, it becomes a bit confusing, wouldn't you say?

Take a look at my avatar. Which one do YOU think I've mained for damn near 8 years? And the thing is, I've also fought every build, every class and every type of person under the sun and beaten them all! Because there are VERY few people that break the mould and try something unique. Those that do actually force me to adapt and learn new techniques. Something you honestly should try.

Stop with the wiki builds. Stop saying "But this is how they're supposed to die" and start trying new things and learn how to play not only your class but theirs as well.

#19 Lordkrall

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Because you obviously don't know anything about Necromancer. "You have wells" Yes, I have 1 powerful AoE well. The rest? Condition and boon changers, which waste the precious slots I have to use armor and condition spreaders. Just about the only tool I've found that does wonders again Mesmers happens to be Plague form, which is extremely powerful against them. However, that's about it. Marks aren't strong enough to defeat Mesmers as easily as you make it sound.

Also, you do realize that Scholars make some of the best tanks, right?

Oh? I have played Necromancer quite a bit and I didn't have much trouble with lack of AoE damage abilities.
Necromancers with staff have a full skill bar of skills that can be used to kill several clones quite easily for one.  
You seems to constantly ignore the fact that your main damage abilities comes with the weapon skills, just like every other class.

#20 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

View PostShezuTsukai, on 23 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

Mesmers have light armor and medium health just the opposite of thieves.

I like the story of the 14 players to kill one Mes. Btw what server is that? I'd like to take my Mes there when free guesting starts. I need more WvW badges.

Eredon Terrace, of course, what other server? Also, Mesmers can take loads of damage. Their toughness stacks, combined with all of their boons and iDefender make them incredibly hard to kill. If you think just because they have light armor, they're impossible to turn into tanks, you have no idea of the game.

View PostLordkrall, on 23 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Oh? I have played Necromancer quite a bit and I didn't have much trouble with lack of AoE damage abilities.
Necromancers with staff have a full skill bar of skills that can be used to kill several clones quite easily for one.  
You seems to constantly ignore the fact that your main damage abilities comes with the weapon skills, just like every other class.

My problem is not with uber squishy clone spamming Mesmer scrubs, my problem is with extremely difficult to kill Mesmer TANKS that go invisible every half second behind their clones. I don't have a problem with one single thing, it's the whole god tier package of a Mesmer. My playstyle against every other class in the game, is to immobilize them in my marks and trap them in my wells and plague. I can't do that against Mesmers. The only way I can beat a skilled Mesmer is to have a precognition that I'm going to fight a Mesmer as to prepare. What works on Mesmers, doesn't work on anyone else, so if I'm forced to fight a 2v1, a Mesmer and say a Guardian against me, I'm done for.

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 06:03 PM.


#21 Lordkrall

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:03 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Eredon Terrace, of course, what other server? Also, Mesmers can take loads of damage. Their toughness stacks, combined with all of their boons and iDefender make them incredibly hard to kill. If you think just because they have light armor, they're impossible to turn into tanks, you have no idea of the game.



My problem is not with uber squishy clone spamming mesmer scrubs, my problem is with extremely difficult to kill mesmer TANKS that go invisible every half second behind their clones.

Kill the clones first.
The iDefender does not defend well when it is dead.
We have rather few reliable sources of boons as well. Those we have are quite random and can be countered rather easily, especially with a Necromancer.

So, kill the clones? Mesmers have just a few skill that grants stealth, and all of those are very short duration.

#22 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:07 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 23 January 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Kill the clones first.
The iDefender does not defend well when it is dead.
We have rather few reliable sources of boons as well. Those we have are quite random and can be countered rather easily, especially with a Necromancer.

So, kill the clones? Mesmers have just a few skill that grants stealth, and all of those are very short duration.

Read the rest of that quote. Again, my playstyle is purely immobilization, divide and conquer. I focused all of my skills and traits into that form of fighting. Unfortunately I have to change my playstyle completely around to fight a Mesmer. Which means unless I'm fighting a Mesmer in a 1v1, I'm going to lose horribly. They're massive force-multipliers. If you guys think that Mesmers are easy to beat, then please help me and all of Eredon Terrace defeat them and explain it a little better than "Kill the clones, then the Mesmer" as that doesn't seem to work as often as it might seem.

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 06:10 PM.


#23 Gilles VI

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

  • Illusions don't dodge.
  • Illusions move in a very obvious way.
  • Illusions only use 1 skill.
  • Most conditions come from shatters, which are easy to dodge.
  • You can't stack toughness.
  • Portal only has 20 sec usefulness on a 60sec CD.
  • Illusions do alot of dmg so kill them first OR are tough, in which case you can just ignore them because they don't do damage.
  • Same goes for mesmers, or they do alot of dmg and are very squishy or vice versa.
That's how I deal with them. Mesmers certainly aren't the hardest opponents to fights.

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Unfortunately I have to change my playstyle completely around to fight a Mesmer. Which means unless I'm fighting a Mesmer in a 1v1, I'm going to lose horribly. They're massive force-multipliers.

That's just the way it works mate..
No build is going to work versus everything, or else it would be massively overpowered.

My tank guardian build can stall any melee opponent for a long time, but a good ranged DPS'er can own within a small amount of time.

Scissor-paper-rock, you know that?

#24 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 23 January 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

  • Illusions don't dodge.

  • Illusions move in a very obvious way.

  • Illusions only use 1 skill.

  • Most conditions come from shatters, which are easy to dodge.

  • You can't stack toughness.

  • Portal only has 20 sec usefulness on a 60sec CD.

  • Illusions do alot of dmg so kill them first OR are tough, in which case you can just ignore them because they don't do damage.

  • Same goes for mesmers, or they do alot of dmg and are very squishy or vice versa.
That's how I deal with them. Mesmers certainly aren't the hardest opponents to fights.



That's just the way it works mate..
No build is going to work versus everything, or else it would be massively overpowered.

My tank guardian build can stall any melee opponent for a long time, but a good ranged DPS'er can own within a small amount of time.

Scissor-paper-rock, you know that?

You'd think the Necromancer would have the best chance against a Mesmer. Thanks for the bit of info there, that might help a bit if I find one in a 1v1. I'm the same way with my Necromancer, I'm not much of a ranged fighter with that class, more of an upclose fighter. Ranged fighters irritate me, although I do shut them down rather easily with immobilization, which the Necromancer has in spades. Pretty much the only class I can't beat is the Mesmer, sadly. My current Necromancer build is rather low level, but I've been able to destroy all other classes in 1v1s, regardless of level, just not Mesmer.

Edited by Vashtirak, 23 January 2013 - 06:16 PM.


#25 moomooo1

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:14 PM

As many have pointed out, it's definitely a case of "you can't beat all". I mean yes, there are tips to beat certain classes and builds and what not, but at some point of skill, you just got to suck it up, that's how it is. At the same time, that's the beauty of it.

Try playing a mesmer for one, just in sPvP, find yourself a solid guide or build and play it for awhile. You'll start to see where the weaknesses lie, and then you'll understand what those pesky butterfly lovers are up to next time you fight them :)

#26 Bonana

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:14 PM

Mesmers are only good if you can play them right. Portals? Don't even get me started! sometimes I even derp really hard when I drop portals. The only disadvantage with portals imo, is how culling effects it. SO YEAH, it kind of seems op with culling backing it a bit :[.

Some hints:

Mesmer clones move differently! Which means, this is an advantage for you. To avoid paying attention to clones, focus on the only one that 'moves faster/differently'. Many mesmers refuse to stay still when they fight, usually this makes it easier to tell which one isn't a clone...

Also, when you get a mesmer in a downstate (before it cloaks and leaves a clone in position), pay attention to the downstate-icon above the player. It's so you'll know which one isn't a clone :D!

#27 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

View Postmoomooo1, on 23 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

As many have pointed out, it's definitely a case of "you can't beat all". I mean yes, there are tips to beat certain classes and builds and what not, but at some point of skill, you just got to suck it up, that's how it is. At the same time, that's the beauty of it.

Try playing a mesmer for one, just in sPvP, find yourself a solid guide or build and play it for awhile. You'll start to see where the weaknesses lie, and then you'll understand what those pesky butterfly lovers are up to next time you fight them :)

Thanks for the tips, I actually did have a level 30 Mesmer. I dropped him when I realized all of the ridiculous potential he had. Dominated other classes with ease, had an answer for everything. I also saw how his portals could be used for absolute cheapness, such as synchronized jump camping.

View PostBonana, on 23 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Mesmers are only good if you can play them right. Portals? Don't even get me started! sometimes I even derp really hard when I drop portals. The only disadvantage with portals imo, is how culling effects it. SO YEAH, it kind of seems op with culling backing it a bit :[.

Some hints:

Mesmer clones move differently! Which means, this is an advantage for you. To avoid paying attention to clones, focus on the only one that 'moves faster/differently'. Many mesmers refuse to stay still when they fight, usually this makes it easier to tell which one isn't a clone...

Also, when you get a mesmer in a downstate (before it cloaks and leaves a clone in position), pay attention to the downstate-icon above the player. It's so you'll know which one isn't a clone :D!

Thanks, never thought of looking for the icon.

#28 GrandmaFunk

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostVashtirak, on 23 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Their toughness stacks

You've said that twice but I have no idea what you actually mean.. can you explain what you are specifically referring to by this statement?

Toughness is an attribute, attributes don't "stack", stacking refers to multiple instances of a condition or boon.

Edited by GrandmaFunk, 23 January 2013 - 06:22 PM.


#29 Vashtirak

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostGrandmaFunk, on 23 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

You've said that twice but I have no idea what you actually mean.. can you explain what you are specifically referring to by this statement?

Toughness is an attribute, attributes don't "stack", stacking refers to multiple instances of a condition or boon.

I meant you can stack loads of boons on the toughness and gain condition damage through traits based off of toughness. I didn't mean it stacks as in you can have multiple literal stacks of toughness, I meant it as an entity: Toughness-stacks. Equating it to having so many stacked boons that in conjunction with a high toughness, you become a variable god. Boons work extremely well with toughness on light armor it seems, making Necromancers the best tank in the game imo.

#30 Falfyrel

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:49 PM

The issue about Mesmers (and Thieves as well) is that they can spec for ridiculous stealth/mobility, and if they do that then there's no way to kill them since they can reset the fight at will. Therefore, a halfway decent Mesmer or Thief who knows their escape utilities can end up playing with the intellect of a turd and still force a draw; meanwhile, you can't screw up or else you get destroyed.

Take away the mobility of these two classes and I think things would be a lot more balanced than you'd expect (Portals aside, perhaps); but it's still cheese to completely remove skill from the equation from only 2 of the 8 classes.

As a Necromancer, if you get into a tight spot, you're most likely going to die. With Thief? Cloak and Dagger on wildlife > wait till stealth runs out > Infiltrator's Arrow spam > Hide in Shadows > Infiltrator's Arrow > Shadow Refuge > Shadowstep if anyone is somehow still following you (they won't be if you're halfway good). Mesmers are similar except they actually have to impact their combat ability by picking up oddball skills instead of having it come naturally.

I don't think that Mesmers are OP per se, once again aside from some of the uses of Portal plus culling, and maybe some burst builds which can't escape easily anyways; but a good Mesmer who uses escape tools wisely is impossible to defeat for the reasons I've listed above. In the context of WvW amazing escape potential is a recipe for extreme imbalance.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mesmers, necromancers, elementalist, overpowered, cheap, wut?, gameplay, nerf, clones

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