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So mesmers start to shine at level 40?


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#1 Ogodei

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

I read a few times now how mesmers start to truly shine at level 40. Which traits exactly make that happen in your opinion? Any recommendations for a level 40 (to 60) leveling build? I currently prefer staff and greatsword (or sword/focus or sword/sword).

Thanks!

#2 raspberry jam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

No, they don't. They start to sparkle a little, but I wouldn't call it a shine.

#3 Thaddeuz

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

Several good Mesmer build are presently popular.

- Shatter Build DPS
- Phantasm DPS
- Support

The only one i know well is Shatter Build. Basically you want to pump illusion and decrease the cooldown of your Shatter. You need The Major Trait X ''Deceptive Evasion'' in the Duelist Trait line. After that you need 30pts in Illusions trait line to allow you to shatter as much as you can. Usually people use Greatsword and Sword/Focus for that build

#4 Killacam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

To be honest out of the 3 characters I have leveled to 80 i feel like my mesmer shines the least.

Honestly I'm just bad with mesmers but I'm very good with a thief or ele. Mesmers are more about your playstyle than any other class.

I suggest watching the "Shatter Cat" on youtube. Great burst dps build based around shatter.

#5 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

I have levelled 8 different professions to 80.  Out of the 8 the Mesmer was the one that had the least boredom associated with it, for me. With my current stable of 80s Mesmer is not my favorite but it is a strong contender and I consider it's flexibility part of that reason.

When I say Flexibility I mean things like Utilities.  One of the least flexible for me is Ranger, I just feel to many of their utilities are either meh or just crap, atm.

#6 ObeyGiant

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

Mesmer was my first love in this game and in the original Guild Wars. I will admit that I have started leveling a Warrior lately and at low levels with Signets and the trait that gives Pre for every unused Signet along with their natural resilience makes them level VERY easy so far (nearly %100 crit chance at low levels... no wonder I see so many Wars lol). BUT - I never thought my Mesmer was hard to level in the slightest. Quite the contrary actually. I was able to solo many mobs on my Mesmer that I know other classes would not have been able to. What we lack in upfront damage (in the build I am going to propose for leveling) we make up for with tons of utility and survivability.

The Deceptive Evasion trait at level 40 is very helpful for leveling. I personally prefer Sword/Focus/Staff for leveling. Staff clones are very strong. Deceptive Evasion/Phase Retreat/Mirror Images/Decoy/Etc (I like blink here) gives you tons of stun break and the ability to pump out tons of clones while maintaing lots of mobility. With "on clone death traits" (mainly cripple) leveling becomes painfully easy and I find Mesmer to be very rewarding at 80.

I recommend after 20 in "Dueling" to put the next 10 into Domination for Crippling Dissipation. After that 20 into illusions for Illusionary Elasticity will take you a long way. Stand close enough to the enemies so that your staff 1 attacks (along with your clones) bounce back and forth between you for the buffs/boons and use your dodge rolls - both of the minor traits in Dueling are very strong, especially Critical Infusion, but they rely on having high Precision so I would recommend gearing for that (along with Pow OR Condition Damage - your choice).

Use Phase Retreat (leap finisher) and Illusionary Leap (leap finisher) in your Chaos Storm (along with the actual move Chaos Armor) for lots of Chaos Armor, BUT don't come to rely on it too much and ACTIVELY dodge/blurred frenzy/distortion shatter. It is good practice for the future. Mesmer's rely on AVOIDING damage not MITIGATING it although at low levels and against weak fast hitting monsters Chaos Armor PWNS.

They are very good at sPvP and WvW and in Berserker's I die less in PvE than my cousin who I play with often. He runs a Necro ( full Rabids - LOTS of Toughness with naturally high Vit) and a Coated Bullets Engi ( lots of Soldiers - I think he has over 22K Hp). Depending on how much I have in Inspiration ( 0 - 20) I have 15-18K HP with barely over 1000 toughness. My back gets sore from carrying people in PuGs very often - even with "no survivability". We have a lot of ways to completely avoid damage and I feel like my damage/overall contribution to the group is very high. This forum isn't as bad at it, but I recommend giving the class a fair shot instead of basing your opinion of the class on other people's opinion of the class (lots of doom and gloom surrounding certain Mesmer forums - very unjustly IME).

After you get 20 into Dueling you will likely never put those 20 points anywhere else. Precision and Crit damage is awesome. The first minor trait is awesome. I based an entire build around the second minor trait and mass condition damage. Blade Training/Phantasmal Fury is awesome and of course, Deceptive Evasion is a very strong straight that I have come to be unable to live without. I used it for my Staff/Condition Damage build, Shatter Build, and now am using it during my testing of a modified version of Strife's Phantasm build posted on these forums. I consider Dueling to be one of our - if not our strongest traitline.

Good luck in Mesmerizing your foes in the future!

#7 Spasm

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:34 AM

It does get better with clone on dodge, but wouldnt say shine perse. Aggroing 4+ trash mobs (hylek with poison come to mind) can be very nerfwracking where other classes just lol 1 spam through in half the time. That's atleast my experience. Id say the power creep starts as late as level 60 imo when you can pull off a decent amount of shatters which actually kill stuff.

#8 Heart Collector

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

What I like about level 40 is that we get the clone-on-dodge trait from the dueling tree. I didn't think so before I tried it, but it's an INSANE trait... You just need to see it for yourself! Clone generation becomes easier and more fluid - and combined with vigor on crit we become more survivable. As ObeyGiant said, I don't think I'm ever going to move those points elsewhere :D

#9 Butr0sButr0s

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostHeart Collector, on 28 January 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

What I like about level 40 is that we get the clone-on-dodge trait from the dueling tree. I didn't think so before I tried it, but it's an INSANE trait... You just need to see it for yourself! Clone generation becomes easier and more fluid - and combined with vigor on crit we become more survivable. As ObeyGiant said, I don't think I'm ever going to move those points elsewhere :D

Yes, the dodge=clone trait is great for certain builds.  I personally use a clone bomber setup: I keep 3 clones up and stack abilities that debilitate enemies when they are destroyed (condition effects, cripple, etc).  I deal all the damage myself, stay close to the clones, and just pop another one as they get destroyed by the enemies.  It works extremely well, and to get out of trouble you just pop an invisibility skill and leave the clones as distraction.

#10 heatrr

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:04 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 25 January 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

No, they don't. They start to sparkle a little, but I wouldn't call it a shine.

Over 4800 WvW kills on my Phantasm GS DPS Mesmer all zerker build. No, they simply sparkle and never ever shine.....

#11 raspberry jam

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:54 AM

View Postheatrr, on 04 February 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Over 4800 WvW kills on my Phantasm GS DPS Mesmer all zerker build. No, they simply sparkle and never ever shine.....
Not understanding the word "sparkle" in the context of mesmers... wow

Anyway, a high number of kills doesn't mean that your character shines. It means that you do.

#12 Minion

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

As soon as you gain access to phantasmal fury, keep it and never let go. dem crits.

#13 Alilei22

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:41 AM

Been thinking about rolling a Mesmer.  How are you supposed to do events and stuff when you have massive waves of mobs and no AoE?

#14 Jetjordan

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:52 AM

View PostAlilei22, on 05 February 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

How are you supposed to do events and stuff when you have massive waves of mobs and no AoE?

uh... use their AoE skills?  Greatsword and sword/focus has worked great for AoE for me.

#15 Heart Collector

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostAlilei22, on 05 February 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Been thinking about rolling a Mesmer.  How are you supposed to do events and stuff when you have massive waves of mobs and no AoE?
GS has some good AoE for taggging, as does sword/focus (but that's a bit trickier to pull off than GS). Even the staff works decently for AoE but on a more defensive level, and you may not get to tag as easily as with the GS unless your Chaos Storm is on CD for every wave (it still works well enough for me though).

Also, a few well timed, well placed shatters will do heaps of AoE. It's easier to pull this off when you have the clone on dodge talent. Can't wait to reach 60 to get the 3rd tier Evasion shatter-on-self :D

I find myself getting golds easily in events nowadays - it was much harder at earlier levels when clone generation was slower and I was less used to the class. Dunno how it will be at 80 though.

#16 Maxtofunator

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

My very first class that I played in both beta and release was a mesmer. I was really interested in the class, between being a melee mage [the necro melee wasn't my forte, and the ele wasn't the first class i wanted to play] and I made it up to I'd say about 56 or so playing duo with my friend who was a ranger. Then another friend joined, so I made a thief to help him level up, partly because I felt my mesmer still wasn't doing what I wanted [I played the mesmer a bit in sPvP so I knew their full function, but felt like I couldn't do insane burst damage yet (my fault, I didn't go straight to 30 points in illusion, I've been shattering since day 1 on my mesmer)], and then my thief was my first level 80. I then said that I want my mesmer at 80 for WvW because we ended up joining a WvW guild, and while leveling up, I noticed very slowly how much stronger my mesmer really was then I thought he was. Between using blurred frenzy combined with shattering 3 illusions plus myself, most mobs would simply die.

So add the insane burst damage you can have mixed with the crazy utility you can have by simply using certain utility skills, such as the AoE condition removal, feedback bubbles, portals for WvW, jumping puzzles, and certain dungeon paths, stealth [big fan of stealth], and then the awesome duelist feeling of the mesmer, it has a high potential to be really good, but like many classes that I end up playing, have a larger learning curve than your simple melee warrior or thief.

#17 Minion

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostMaxtofunator, on 06 February 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

most mobs would simply die.


I presume you are talking about a group of enemies dying?

#18 Maxtofunator

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:05 AM

View PostMinion, on 09 February 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

I presume you are talking about a group of enemies dying?

Yes groups, but just in general man. I have never had too big of a problem with killing things on my mesmer, oddly I had more trouble and it took me longer trying to be a backstabbing thief because you had to be in the right positioning the whole time to max damage

#19 Evans

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

Can't deny that 40 seems to be the magical number. Probably because clones on dodge is the best thing ever, but only if you actually shatter them unlike so many mesmers I seem to run into. Sure they're not as tough as warriors or so, but combat is so much more fun.

Lack of AoE? Myea sort of, but Phantasmal beserker does the trick mostly. If that fails you still have shatters all over the place.
Greatsword / Sword-Sword all the way for me. Sort of lacking swiftness but w/e it's too much fun to play with.

Mesmers, fabulous all over the place since level 40.

Edited by Evans, 13 February 2013 - 10:26 AM.


#20 Minion

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:23 AM

I think 60 was the deal breaker for me. It's starting to grow on me, now I have almost all my traits and I can almost always proc 4x Mind Wrack on every enemy to generate the sound of massive damage. Sure, you might deal more damage as a guardian or warrior, but you can't take the mesmer's style and finesse as he scopes out your weak points.



View PostEvans, on 13 February 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Lack of AoE? Myea sort of, but Phantasmal beserker does the trick mostly. If that fails you still have shatters all over the place.
Greatsword / Sword-Sword all the way for me. Sort of lacking swiftness but w/e it's too much fun to play with.


There's no real lack of AoE unless you run staff+wand+pistol, which would be silly of you. On the sword/focus there #2 and #5 for AoE, while #3 can setup a pretty ball (albeit not as tight or easy as Binding Chains) for AoE in the whole team. For greatsword you have #2, #3, #4 and #5 but Wave isn't really AoE damage :P Again, great CC utility without even wasting a utility skill slot or trait. It's fantastic. And after all that AoE on your weapons, you have your shatters.

Edited by Minion, 13 February 2013 - 10:28 AM.


#21 Evans

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

View PostMinion, on 13 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

There's no real lack of AoE unless you run staff+wand+pistol, which would be silly of you. On the sword/focus there #2 and #5 for AoE, while #3 can setup a pretty ball (albeit not as tight or easy as Binding Chains) for AoE in the whole team. For greatsword you have #2, #3, #4 and #5 but Wave isn't really AoE damage :P Again, great CC utility without even wasting a utility skill slot or trait. It's fantastic. And after all that AoE on your weapons, you have your shatters.

Well yes, I suppose Phantasmal beserker isn't AoE in the true meaning of the word (or is it?) but darnit it does a good amount of damage to a group of foes nonetheless. And it isn't capped at 5 targets either :P (yep no AoE)

Let's just agree that Mesmer has enough 'Faux' AoE to manage. Another little thing I like to do, when I equip a focus with my sword, is putting the temporal curtain up and time it so it collapses and draws all the foes straight into a blurred frenzy, dodge back and shatter :)

#22 Black Autumn

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:49 PM

Up until 40, my Mesmer was very much love/hate.  At 40, it became all love.

#23 entropy3

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:00 AM

What made it for me (just like that "Oh Shit, thats sweet." moment) was when I realized you can take a Boss/Champion from 5 stacks of defiant to 0 in about a second. With Illusionary Persona (Grandmaster trait in Illusions) and 3 clones, you can f3 (4 dazes) > GS #5 > focus #4 and bam interrupted. I usually try to coordinate with a ele with frost bow so I can remove all stacks of defiant so Frost Bow #5 will have effect.

#24 Swoopeh

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:22 AM

Like others mentioned clone on dodge is awesome, it allows you to shake aggro quickly and keep the waves of illusions going, especially combined with vigor on crit (nice synergy there). Also try to keep your crit chance high as you level to play into this. I found GS/staff a good option while leveling because staff is good for defensive play - chaos armor, aegis from chaos storm, phase retreat out to get a free chaos armor and the bouncey buffs from the projectile makes taking on groups of mobs a lot easier, if slower than GS/sword+focus. Using Signet of Illusions helps your phantasms to take more hits before they die, thus less aggro for you. Also a good idea to equip a cleanse like Null Field as some conditions can be nasty (plus its another combo field). Clever use of shatters 3 and 4 help as well, especially if you want to use sword/focus to melee. Oh and Feedback is great for disabling ranged attackers for a little while.

And yeah "AoE" from izerker is a wonderful thing. The timing can be tricky in Orr as some packs of mobs are invulnerable until they reach a certain point after which they instantly die :P But when you get it to hit an entire pack the numbers are very satisfying. Also Mirror Blade traited with the extra bounce in Illusions can be used as a last resort mob tagger and GS Mind Stab for grouped up mobs is self explanatory. Then MH sword does a good job as AoE as well (especially since the last patch made the final chain skill hit 3 targets instead of 1), blurred frenzy in the middle of a pack, Leap to get into melee range quickly and if you use a focus then Warden is rather nice if you get the placement sorted. All in all a lot of AoE potential, only problems I have are in Orr where mobs die from layered ground AoE before you can take a swing at them.

Edited by Swoopeh, 28 February 2013 - 10:24 AM.


#25 Empty Promises

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

If you want to compare the mesmer class with regards of luminosity, I'd say they would be a firefly compared to the guardian or warriors who are carrying around lanterns. Honestly when I started this game playing with my lovable mesmer and leveling up to 80, then rolled out   with a guardian, the guardian was like a walk in the park compared to the mesmer with regards of leveling. But when you do good with the mesmer, it feels so rewarding as opposed to my guardian, plus the utility a mesmer can provide is really powerful and unique in a sense (come on who doesn't like to use Portals or Chaos Storm). Sure we can never shine as grealty as other classes in terms of raw DPS and that we're a class that is reliant on our illusions and phantasms, but when we do good since it's a higher skill cap, it just feels so good and far more rewarding than what classes can experience. Long live the Mesmers :)

#26 Midnight_Tea

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

Yeah, I'd say mesmer up to level 40 is much harder than it needs to be. But past that point where they start doing great burst, it's hard for me to want to play anything else. I soloed most of Orr with my mesmer, prior to it being nerfed. Three pieces of advice I'd give to any mesmer:

1. Try out that clone-on-dodge trait at least once. It's saved me more times than I care to count. Don't get too used to phantasms doing all your damage, that gets boring. Try a shatter build at least once, it's not as one-trick pony as it may sound on paper.

2. Know when to hold them, know when to fold 'em. More accurately, know when to shatter and when not to. As a rough outline -- Don't shatter if you're on the defensive or your clones are doing a good job of holding the monster's attention. Do shatter if the clones aren't fooling them and you're ready to make more.  Always shatter if the monster is about to die, since your illusions die anyway.

3. Play like the thief. Fight on your terms however possible and evade or plink with long range attacks until they are in your favor. Dodge, jump, whatever, don't sit still if its not to your advantage. Decoy is an awesome utility for getting out of bad situations or when you need just one more illusion for a max-effect ether feast.


My mesmer rocks the PvE solo scene, I struggle to adjust to using any other class at high levels.

#27 Raagar Deathclaw

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:07 PM

View PostEmpty Promises, on 28 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Sure we can never shine as grealty as other classes in terms of raw DPS

I don't know about that, as a shatter mesmer i'm shattering for upwards of 12k thanks to illusionary persona and my MH sword does 4k on the auto attack. Honestly mesmer is quite capable of shining below lvl 40 it's just alot harder since clone generation is limited to skill cd's and your shatters don't recharge as fast but we're quite capable of soloing mobs other class' have a harder time with. Getting aoe is harder because clones have to be positioned in the middle of a group for aoe, other than that blurred frenzy is capable of aoe if you group up mobs with temporal curtain first, the same goes for iwarden group em up and pop warden in the middle and you tag all of em

#28 draxynnic

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:00 AM

You can, actually, get mesmers to work reasonably well under 40. Start by going Chaos for Metaphysical Rejuvenation and then Debilitating Dissipation - the regeneration boon scales less with level than healing skills, which means that relatively speaking it's better at low levels than high levels. 10 seconds of regeneration every 30 is a pretty significant boost to durability for under 40s. Debilitating Dissipation then means that when your clones successfully distract someone, they're getting weakened or damaged for their efforts. Also, don't be afraid to overwrite your clones - overwriting triggers the Dissipation traits.

Then take 5 points in Illusions for the shortened illusion generation recharge, then go into Domination to get Crippling Dissipation. With a bit of smart play, this means that melee opponents might never land a blow on you. Ranged enemies still have some chance to be distracted by their illusions, and if they are rude enough to attack you personally, a feedback bubble should teach them the error of their ways.

The first handful of levels are still likely to be painful (i think ArenaNet really needs to look at the scaling of healing at low levels), but with this setup I found things were running fairly smoothly by the time I hit Gendarron Fields.
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#29 Swoopeh

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostRaagar Deathclaw, on 27 March 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Getting aoe is harder because clones have to be positioned in the middle of a group for aoe, other than that blurred frenzy is capable of aoe if you group up mobs with temporal curtain first, the same goes for iwarden group em up and pop warden in the middle and you tag all of em

Don't forget iZerker (for those using GS) does tons of aoe damage but doesn't count towards the AoE cap :) I actually find it easier to tag mobs in zergs with my mesmer than with my necro.

Edited by Swoopeh, 29 March 2013 - 07:59 AM.


#30 draxynnic

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:41 PM

Depends on just how zergy the zerg is. If things are dying so fast that iZerker pops before it even triggers because its target dies, it doesn't do you much good.

It's probably best for those events that have the odd veteran - that way you can target the veteran and be sure that you'll get at least one whirl out of it.
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