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Insta-Gernade How is it done?


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#1 Drtrider

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

No intent to rage/complain here. I've never really played an Engi however, I'm curious to how this is possible...

http://i.imgur.com/3aw7CW2.jpg

This engi magnet pulled me, and casted all of those instantaneously  No cast animation, no explosion no nothing. Just instant death. Any one have any clue how? People complained that a thief back-stab combo was over powered, however I find this... interesting.

Any insight, would be nice. And before any one says "haste" he had zero buffs on him when he did this.

Edited by Drtrider, 27 January 2013 - 11:20 PM.


#2 armoured bearshark

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

If you didnt see the animation then it was lag on your end or his.

http://www.gw2db.com...grenade-barrage

#3 Nabuko Darayon

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:25 PM

3rd party program where they keybind all of the skills and trigger them at once, I'd assume. corrent me if wrong

#4 Drtrider

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

View Postarmoured bearshark, on 27 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

If you didnt see the animation then it was lag on your end or his.

http://www.gw2db.com...grenade-barrage

I understand that one skill, but to do it all under a second multiple times? And no lag here sir. Internet is fine, plus I was going against 2 others at the time. No jumping, or lag for them.

#5 armoured bearshark

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:41 PM

The PULL effect on magnet pull happens after the cast animation, so depending on how far your distance was he had ample time to use grenade barrage, the cast time being half a second. Weird though that he got 10 hits out of his grenade barrage where my tooltip says 8 with the grenadier trait and 6 without. btw did you see him use pry bar?

#6 Drtrider

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

I'm aware of how the magnet works. However, as soon as I was pulled, I was instantly downed from those hits. Full health, to not in half a second. Is this how grenade barrage is supposed to work?

Keep in mind, I'm rocking 20k HP with a decent amount of toughness.

#7 redslion

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:59 PM

With kit refinement and grenade barrage. That's how it works:

Kit refinement is the major trait IV in Tools trait line. When you equip a kit, it creates a specific effect around the engineer, with a fixed cooldown.

When an engineer with kit refinement equips a grenade kit, he will create a grenade barrage centered on him, on a 20-30 seconds cooldown. The barrage is unaffected by Grenadier.

You have seen all those hits because each grenade from the two barrages hits saparatedly.

He just pulled you, changed to grenade kit (first barrage) and used grenade barrage at the same time. And a prybar.

If you go into the official forum, you'll find some threads in the engineer section about this build.

#8 Silinsar

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

http://wiki.guildwar.../Kit_Refinement (+TB skill) maybe?

€: ninja'd

Edited by Silinsar, 28 January 2013 - 12:01 AM.


#9 redslion

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:36 AM

Lol, sorry :P

#10 MrForz

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:16 AM

View PostDrtrider, on 27 January 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

I'm aware of how the magnet works. However, as soon as I was pulled, I was instantly downed from those hits. Full health, to not in half a second. Is this how grenade barrage is supposed to work?

Keep in mind, I'm rocking 20k HP with a decent amount of toughness.

I'm seeing a 4k Pry Bar, which means that you faced a Glass Canon Engineer. I'm also seeing 11 Grenade hits which mean that he had the Kit Refinement trait.
.
Grenade Barrage got monstrously buffed, getting affected by the Grenadier trait. So yes, he started to pull you and queued Pry Bar; then switched to Grenades for the random nades from Kit Refinement while throwing the Grenade Barrage on the ground, there's nothing much to say about this.

#11 redslion

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

Well, as a bunker you can deal 4k prybar crits, too. Not so often, because of low crit chance, tough.

(But yeah, bunkers don't put barrage to good use: it must have been a glass cannon grenadier)

#12 Forest

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

View PostDrtrider, on 27 January 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

No intent to rage/complain here. I've never really played an Engi however, I'm curious to how this is possible...

http://i.imgur.com/3aw7CW2.jpg

This engi magnet pulled me, and casted all of those instantaneously  No cast animation, no explosion no nothing. Just instant death. Any one have any clue how? People complained that a thief back-stab combo was over powered, however I find this... interesting.

Any insight, would be nice. And before any one says "haste" he had zero buffs on him when he did this.

This combo has been around since the betas, but since someone publicly revealed it, it's only starting to catch on now.
You got hit by a combo I call "duel barrage". The name explains exactly what it is. It's two barrage, when you get defeated it also shows as two separate barrage attacks on your damage taken result. The hit animation is smokes. You got hit instantly, so there is no casting animation.

View Postredslion, on 27 January 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

With kit refinement and grenade barrage. That's how it works:

Kit refinement is the major trait IV in Tools trait line. When you equip a kit, it creates a specific effect around the engineer, with a fixed cooldown.

When an engineer with kit refinement equips a grenade kit, he will create a grenade barrage centered on him, on a 20-30 seconds cooldown. The barrage is unaffected by Grenadier.  ("Kit barrage" is 10 seconds cool down. With grenadier trait there are 8 grenades and 6 grenades without.)

You have seen all those hits because each grenade from the two barrages hits separatel.

He just pulled you, changed to grenade kit (first barrage) and used grenade barrage at the same time. And a pry bar.

If you go into the official forum, you'll find some threads in the engineer section about this build.

The difference between duel barrage and the other burst combos is that this is the most difficult combo to land in the game, but very rewarding if done correctly.

I've been using this combo for since I switched to engineer about 4 months ago, so ask away if anyone's curious about weakness and strengths of the combo. Every Engineer build I posted on this forum with grenade kit uses that combo, by the way.

#13 Killyox

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:12 AM

oh wow? Barrage combo is difficult ? Oh god please. It's so easy 5yo can do it. There is absolutely nothing hard about it at ALL. Cheesy lame and stupid too. I'm saying all this as an engineer

Edited by Killyox, 29 January 2013 - 09:13 AM.


#14 redslion

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:35 AM

Well, if you know how it works, you will NEVER get in melee with an engineer.

Maybe he meant you can't fool someone twice. I don't know, I hate playing glass cannon.

But yeah, it's always the same story: NEVER melee an engineer.XD

#15 Forest

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

View PostKillyox, on 29 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

oh wow? Barrage combo is difficult ? Oh god please. It's so easy 5yo can do it. There is absolutely nothing hard about it at ALL. Cheesy lame and stupid too. I'm saying all this as an engineer

View Postredslion, on 29 January 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Well, if you know how it works, you will NEVER get in melee with an engineer.

Maybe he meant you can't fool someone twice. I don't know, I hate playing glass cannon.

But yeah, it's always the same story: NEVER melee an engineer.XD

^ He answered it, Once you hit a smart player with the combo it becomes increasing difficult to hit them again with it because they are aware of it now. Unlike thieves's back stab where you can tell if you're in range or Warrior's hundred blade where there's a huge cone you have to be almost exactly inside the target's circle. If you miss the mark, your damage is not reduced by half but by 1/4 because barrage's hitting field is circular. A player who is at least "decent" with his/her class will not stand still even for a moment. With that said, I'll show you how the engineer probably took you out.

I'm going to assume he was glasscannon. He probably hit you with the wrench before his pull. When he's ready to pull off the duel barrage combo, he switched to tool kit and begin the magnet pull at around 900~ or less range (any further and the enemy won't land exactly in front of you.) During the channeling for the magnet, He aimed the tool belt barrage and move slightly upwards putting him exactly where you are going to land. The then hits the tool belt barrage to release the barrage and switch to grenade kit for the kit barrage the moment you land. This takes a lot of practice to pull off perfectly every time, even at that, sometimes magnet pull bugs out.


Counter the pull duel barrage? Break stun and move to the side to make the entire combo trash damage. Every single class has a counter stun trait. If you trait it, this combo is completely or almost completely useless depending on your class.

Counter the damage? Reflect projectiles will reflect the kit barrage, but not the tool belt barrage. All 8 grenades will automatically reflect back. Retaliation has no internal cool down, like bleed, 16 attacks = 16 retaliation hits. Edit: 1/28 patch: Both barrage can now be projectile reflected/negated. You can basically one shot yourself.

Negate the damage? Use an invincibility skill, a evade skill, or a blind skill. All 8 grenades from 1 barrage counts as 1 attack, so a entire barrage attack will miss if the engineer is blind.

Counter the immobilize-leap duel barrage? The leap is so slow you can see it coming, as a warrior, you should start your 100b combo or use a burst, he'll leap right into it and die before he can release his stronger tool belt barrage. You can also just cure conditions and move to the side. As an engineer, #4 overcharge on rifle is the exact counter to this combo.

Chance the damage? 16 separate attacks = 16 separate chances to critical. Meaning if the goddess of luck is on your side, it'll do trash damage even if it hits you directly. Just look how weak the regular non-critical barrage damage is. This person was running full blown berserker. Sigil of intelligent will only cause 1 grenade to critical.



From the looks of it, I'd say the developers are already fully aware of this combo and has already taken precaution. Unlike any other burst combo, you cannot depend on this one. That's why it's a combo and not a build.

Edited by Forest, 30 January 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#16 Atamaz

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

Instead of aiming correctly(because both grenade barrage the toolbet skill and the refinement one has a wide area) you can "enter" the enemy character texture with yours and there will be no dispersion of granade, and it's also doable for example with rifle#2(net) followed by rifle#5(jump shot) inside enemy and equip grenade kit + use the granade barrage and you will have a big burst inside your enemy, the 100 nades build use also static discarge for even more burst.
Does it do a lots of damage? Yes. Should it be nerfed? Not until the 100blades from warrior do more damage with less effort,
And for do this damage I'm pretty sure he was full berserk so he will die to the first sneeze around.




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