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Massive guardian nerfs


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#1 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:38 PM

Elusive Power is worthless now.  Who else is rerolling?

#2 Lordkrall

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:45 PM

What is this massive nerf you are talking about? I must have missed it.

#3 Digilodger

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 28 January 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Elusive Power is worthless now.  Who else is rerolling?

I don't see anything in today's update (Jan. 28) about Elusive Power.  Mind explaining?  Plus, Elusive Power increases our power by 10% when endurance isn't full.  Even if ANET nerf it (which, again, I don't see any mention in this update), it wouldn't affect us much; most guardians won't even notice it.

I see a rather heavy nerf to spirit weapons, but that's about it.  I think you're over-reacting.

Edited by Digilodger, 28 January 2013 - 11:53 PM.


#4 Devious

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

How is this a "massive" nerf exactly?

#5 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

You can't interrupt the dodge roll with auto-attack chains anymore, so there's no way to burn endurance to keep it up.  Now you have to roll, but rolling means you're not attacking, so it's a net DPS loss.  The trait is basically useless as-is now.

#6 Lordkrall

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:53 PM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 28 January 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

You can't interrupt the dodge roll with auto-attack chains anymore, so there's no way to burn endurance to keep it up.  Now you have to roll, but rolling means you're not attacking, so it's a net DPS loss.  The trait is basically useless as-is now.

So it is basically a fix to a formerly broken mechanic?

#7 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 28 January 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Elusive Power is worthless now.  Who else is rerolling?

How is this "Massive" "nerfs"?  I note a plural as well as an overstatement.  Is this actually meant as sarcasm?

#8 foofad

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

Spirit Weapons have been nerfed further into unuseability. They went from bad but entertaining to bad and also oh yeah they're horrendous. Which leaves us with exactly 10 not-worthless utilities.

#9 secUnd3r

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:15 AM

View Postfoofad, on 29 January 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Spirit Weapons have been nerfed further into unuseability. They went from bad but entertaining to bad and also oh yeah they're horrendous. Which leaves us with exactly 10 not-worthless utilities.
More than mesmer and ranger.

#10 ZCKS

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:37 AM

View Postfoofad, on 29 January 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Spirit Weapons have been nerfed further into unuseability. They went from bad but entertaining to bad and also oh yeah they're horrendous. Which leaves us with exactly 10 not-worthless utilities.


Sadly this is true.

I mean if their going to make them suceptable to damage then the least they could do is up their auto attack damage or change them so that their CD starts ticking as soon as their damaged.

#11 heatrr

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostsecUnd3r, on 29 January 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

More than mesmer and ranger.

My izerker is still laying out 3.5-6.5K attacks on a regular basis - tested it today after patch in WvW and Cursed Shore.

#12 Eon Lilu

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:03 AM

Guardians been nerfed in almost every patch since launch or even before launch...

Get used to it...it sucks..but apparently were still OP after 5-6 months....go figure...

We now have another 4 utility skills been made completely worthless.....

Next they will nerf our boons and virtues...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 29 January 2013 - 04:08 AM.


#13 armoured bearshark

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:35 AM

Oh noes the end times are upon us! I simply cannot fathom guardianing without elusive power. Not only has this unscrupulous nerf blasted my build, apparel and playstyle into the nether realms of existentialism but also my existence, my core being and worth as a human has been decimated by this nerf!  That one trait was IT. It was the ANSWER to everything and the universe, without it guardians are lost, we simply cannot function to acceptable efficiency. Anet should just delete this class now.

#14 lalangamena

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:39 AM

am I the only one who sees:

  • Absolute Resolution: This trait now functions with Battle Presence.
  • Battle Presence: This trait no longer misses pulses or spams “immune” text.
  • Empower: This skill now appropriately applies might for 10 seconds.  (explanation: its at least 20% increase from  ~8 but actually random number of seconds...)
and think this is a good patch for support builds?

regarding spirit weapons, was never a big fan of them, as except the shield they were worse than other utilities, so nerfing already bad skill nobody use is not worth the outcry.

#15 Green

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:51 AM

View Postlalangamena, on 29 January 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

am I the only one who sees:
  • Absolute Resolution: This trait now functions with Battle Presence.
  • Battle Presence: This trait no longer misses pulses or spams “immune” text.
  • Empower: This skill now appropriately applies might for 10 seconds.  (explanation: its at least 20% increase from  ~8 but actually random number of seconds...)
and think this is a good patch for support builds?

regarding spirit weapons, was never a big fan of them, as except the shield they were worse than other utilities, so nerfing already bad skill nobody use is not worth the outcry.

Agreed, I'm happy whit the changes, erm, fixes! Who in their right mind would use spirit weapons anyways, meh.

#16 Gerroh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 28 January 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

You can't interrupt the dodge roll with auto-attack chains anymore, so there's no way to burn endurance to keep it up.  Now you have to roll, but rolling means you're not attacking, so it's a net DPS loss.  The trait is basically useless as-is now.

My mind is full of *.
Your only purpose for dodging is to trigger a trait? What the hell are you fighting? Level 30 skale?

And guardian for self DPS?
Are you out of your mind?
You're not playing guardian, you're playing warrur with guardian skills.

Edited by Gerroh, 29 January 2013 - 07:53 AM.


#17 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:05 AM

View PostGerroh, on 29 January 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

My mind is full of *.
Your only purpose for dodging is to trigger a trait? What the hell are you fighting? Level 30 skale?

And guardian for self DPS?
Are you out of your mind?
You're not playing guardian, you're playing warrur with guardian skills.

Are you forgetting that guardian is (or was, rather) the class with the highest base DPS in the game?  Warrior hits higher solo but their base DPS is lower, and they have less room for overall growth since they reach max might and vulnerability stacks faster in a team.  A warrior averages something like 10-15 stacks of might and 8-10 stacks of vulnerability solo, which is a massive boost to their overall DPS.  However, guardian spreads more might around to the team (around 5 stacks to the team plus 2-3 for himself) and has a higher base DPS to boot, so it's more solid in a team setting where you can count on getting 25 stacks of might and vulnerability.  The guardian is also sturdier and offers more support buffs to the team.  In other words, you will see bigger numbers on warrior in the field but in a proper team environment the guardian outclasses the warrior at its own game, that game being DPS.

That's all in the past, though.  Loss of Elusive Power is pretty much a 10% cut to damage across the board.  This is a HUGE nerf.  It's like warriors losing Forceful Greatsword or thieves losing Executioner.  If the patch notes said "reduced the damage on all Guardian skills by 10%", though, I'd bet you'd be the first person to scream nerf.  This is the exact same thing except less obvious.

Edited by GuanglaiKangyi, 29 January 2013 - 09:05 AM.


#18 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:08 AM

"Haters gonna hate"

u just got a 20-25% duration buff to empower and they sync'd 2 traits to work properly...

About spirit weapons... LOL seriously, is someone using them beside doing random testing in open world?

About Elusive Power it wasn't working as intended, take it and "sshh" other classes are in worst worst! situation than guardian ffs

Edited by Fenice_86, 29 January 2013 - 09:30 AM.


#19 Nikephoros

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:23 AM

View PostGuanglaiKangyi, on 29 January 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Are you forgetting that guardian is (or was, rather) the class with the highest base DPS in the game?  

Show me a dungeon speed clear record video that brings DPS Guardians instead of Warriors.

#20 Swoopeh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:40 AM

View PostsecUnd3r, on 29 January 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

More than mesmer...

Out of 20 base utilities only 2 mantras are useless (distraction/pain), all other utilities are good to awesome depending on the situation.

@OP: as I read it you'll have 10% when between 0-50% endurance so if you were keeping that by dodging and then breaking it using auto attacks I would think that's not the intended play style. The idea is most likely that you need to consider keeping endurance to dodge when needed or spend it for the damage boost, not spam dodge and autoattack to play a meta game with a minor trait.
Also you can still keep it up if you want, just need to be aware that your dodge rolls will be longer so move to max melee range, dodge through the mob while turning around mid-dodge and you should still be in range, just on the other side. Might have to move a little for smaller hitboxes. But you act as if it's a full 10% nerf when it's not because you still trigger the trait, can still keep it up so realistically speaking you're looking at a 3% nerf if you have to move back a little after dodging. Thats a 150 damage on a 5k hit. That enough to give up the class?

#21 Perm Shadow Form

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

Yes, Indeed I noticed a damage reduction ...
Playing with GS, used to hit consistently for minimum 900-1k damage, after logging in after update - 700-800.
Quite sad.

#22 Eon Lilu

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostGreen, on 29 January 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Who in their right mind would use spirit weapons anyways, meh.

View PostFenice_86, on 29 January 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

About spirit weapons... LOL seriously, is someone using them beside doing random testing in open world

You obviously don't run fractals and is why spirit weapons were nerfed, it made your whole team pretty much invincible in most fractals especially against ranged damage + wall of reflection = easy speed clearing fractals with invincible mode on...

Same with some dungeons...

2+ guardians running shield of avenger + wall of reflection = never going to wipe and will blast through fractals..

It needed a nerf but instead of nerfing the effectiveness of what the skill did they just nerfed the spirits health to nothing making it pretty worthless now...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 29 January 2013 - 09:48 AM.


#23 Elysen

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:51 AM

Every class got this nerf with their corresponding trait. Eles Arcane Evasion (i think thats the name) got this fix, the warriors dodge roll trait (i dont know the name, but deals damage on dodge) got this fix, Necro's version (drops mark of blood on dodge) got this fix.

And this made you reroll but not the changes to vigorous precision? You shall not be missed, I hope to never see you again on the Guardian forums.

View PostNikephoros, on 29 January 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Show me a dungeon speed clear record video that brings DPS Guardians instead of Warriors.

OP likes to pull numbers out her ass and likes to think she's right all the time. How true this is doesn't concern me, but you are correct, if Guardians base DPS is higher why would people use Warriors for DPS instead of Guardians? Only thing I can think of is Warriors scale with stats better, but I believe that all professions scale similarly.

Edited by Xephenon, 29 January 2013 - 09:53 AM.


#24 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

View PostEon Lilu, on 29 January 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

You obviously don't run fractals and is why spirit weapons were nerfed, it made your whole team pretty much invincible in most fractals especially against ranged damage + wall of reflection = easy speed clearing fractals with invincible mode on...

Same with some dungeons...

2+ guardians running shield of avenger + wall of reflection = never going to wipe and will blast through fractals..

It needed a nerf but instead of nerfing the effectiveness of what the skill did they just nerfed the spirits health to nothing making it pretty worthless now...

Oh, didnt know, u are right i dont run fractals ^_^
Thx for explanation

#25 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 29 January 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

It needed a nerf but instead of nerfing the effectiveness of what the skill did they just nerfed the spirits health to nothing making it pretty worthless now...

Bringing them in line with Ranger pets and Necro minions.*  Fixed.

Just being humorous, but thanks for the fractals explanation I guess.  I rarely see the Guard Spirits used and when I do it's usually LOL as the guardian tends to suck in the PUGs I see them in.

#26 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostSwoopeh, on 29 January 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Out of 20 base utilities only 2 mantras are useless (distraction/pain), all other utilities are good to awesome depending on the situation.

@OP: as I read it you'll have 10% when between 0-50% endurance so if you were keeping that by dodging and then breaking it using auto attacks I would think that's not the intended play style. The idea is most likely that you need to consider keeping endurance to dodge when needed or spend it for the damage boost, not spam dodge and autoattack to play a meta game with a minor trait.
Also you can still keep it up if you want, just need to be aware that your dodge rolls will be longer so move to max melee range, dodge through the mob while turning around mid-dodge and you should still be in range, just on the other side. Might have to move a little for smaller hitboxes. But you act as if it's a full 10% nerf when it's not because you still trigger the trait, can still keep it up so realistically speaking you're looking at a 3% nerf if you have to move back a little after dodging. Thats a 150 damage on a 5k hit. That enough to give up the class?

You're forgetting the most important thing, which is that you have to roll.  A roll takes about 1 second, and recharges in 5, so you are giving up 20% of your damage to gain a 10% boost.  Before, you could interrupt the roll so that the act of doing so didn't actually take up any time, so you could maintain the 10% boost with no DPS loss.  That's going from 5k to 4.5k per swing.

This may be justified, since guardians being a better DPS class may or may not be a bit overpowered, but you can't really deny it's a huge nerf regardless.

#27 Lordkrall

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

This is what you get for exploiting a broken mechanic. If you build your whole play around that you are simply stupid.

This is not a nerf. It is a BUGFIX.

#28 Strife025

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:58 PM

Not even a nerf to guardians, it's a fix to dodge rolls in general that happened to "fix" something beneficial because dodge rolls were broken with auto attack on.

Fixing the #1 annoying combat bug that would cause you to get downed due to a bug with dodge and the sole reason I had auto-attack turned off the past month is way better then anything bad that happens to one skill on one class.

Warriors contribute way more dps to a group as well... there's a reason groups run more warriors then guardians. Fury uptime and banners contribute way more to the dps of a group, not to mention 3 stacks of might for 30 seconds every 25 seconds which can be copied with Mesmer signet of inspiration before bursting down a boss, there is no real world situation where Guardian is a better choice then warrior for a dps role, the whole reason Guardian would be doing good dps is because of the warriors providing vulnerability, 100% fury uptime, and might in the first place.

Spirit weapons, specifically shield, was the real nerf, no more full 30 seconds of invuln to projectiles since your shield usually dies before then QQ.

#29 Puandro

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

Guards still too good to not bring in a dungeon group.

#30 AzureRogue

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:15 PM

I think you're forgetting that sometimes dodging is actually worthwhile outside of Elusive Power - meaning you may very well be dodging to dodge and getting Elusive Power as a result anyways (which is, imo, what it was intended for).  I DO enjoy, though, that almost every profession forum has repeatedly posted that they've been constantly nerfed since release (at least, Guards, Eles, Mesmers, and Thieves all seem to post that with each update at least a few times - not sure on the others because I don't play them).




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