52 replies to this topic

[Red Omen]

Shouldn't you be dodging pretty regularly anyway? If you've invested 25 points into Honor, you already have near-constant Vigor with a decent crit rate and an AoE heal every time you dodge. Guardians have a lot going for them besides their auto-attack DPS.

[Dataslave]

Strife025, on 29 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Spirit weapons, specifically shield, was the real nerf, no more full 30 seconds of invuln to projectiles since your shield usually dies before then QQ.

It may be a nerf to other spirit weapons, but shield is still lasting full duration in my fractal runs.  The bubble stops projectiles from hitting not only my party, but the shield itself.

[Eon Lilu]

Dataslave, on 29 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

It may be a nerf to other spirit weapons, but shield is still lasting full duration in my fractal runs.  The bubble stops projectiles from hitting not only my party, but the shield itself.

Just tested it some more, most of the time the shield dies within seconds...its pretty worthless now.

What annoys me is Anet's lazy attitude, instead of looking at the skill itself or adjusting the actual skill, they just nerf spirit weapons across the board on all health...to the point that noone will have any use for them...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 29 January 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[G L J]

Dataslave, on 29 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

It may be a nerf to other spirit weapons, but shield is still lasting full duration in my fractal runs.  The bubble stops projectiles from hitting not only my party, but the shield itself.

AoE still penetrates the shield, which means against fractals like Snowblind it dies super quickly.

[Strife025]

Dataslave, on 29 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

It may be a nerf to other spirit weapons, but shield is still lasting full duration in my fractal runs.  The bubble stops projectiles from hitting not only my party, but the shield itself.

I've had it die last night, and it can also be moved around now. Yes it blocks projectiles, but there is still the short downtime every few seconds where it can be hit, and it dies extremely fast. Even if it only gets hit a bit for each cycle of downtime, it can still end up dieing before the full 30s duration. There are also many times where you get a combination of melee/ground target + ranged attacks, with the melee/ground target attacks obviously killing the shield.

I mean I understand SoA was super strong before, so I get the balance, even if I am sad.

But from last nights runs here are examples of when it died:
-Was up the entire time for Old Tom in Harpy Fractal but took a few ticks of damage when shield went down.
-Stayed up most of the time in Shaman fractal, but if you are standing in it and the shaman uses the red circle AoE which goes through the shield, the shield will die. We adjusted by not standing directly in the shield anymore so when the Shaman targets us the AoE will miss the actual shield.
-When fighting golems, and they did their spin attack, it now hits the shield and can actually knock it back which happened in CoE.
-Any boss that has a combination of melee + projectile attacks where you could just leave the shield up for the entire time, will now kill it from it's melee attack, especially if it's a big move that one shots the shield.

So it's more situational now and you need to adjust, rather then just getting the free 30 sec no matter what.

Edited by Strife025, 30 January 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[heatrr]

"Massive" Guardian nerfs? Umm no.

Red Omen, on 29 January 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Shouldn't you be dodging pretty regularly anyway?

Bingo, I do believe we have a winner here!

Strife025, on 30 January 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

I've had it die last night, and it can also be moved around now. Yes it blocks projectiles, but there is still the short downtime every few seconds where it can be hit, and it dies extremely fast.

Would not using Wall of Reflection be a viable alternative then?
Example: http://www.youtube.c...&v=OH6Oearkm0Y#!

Edited by heatrr, 30 January 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Killyox]

Eon Lilu, on 29 January 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

Guardians been nerfed in almost every patch since launch or even before launch...

Get used to it...it sucks..but apparently were still OP after 5-6 months....go figure...

We now have another 4 utility skills been made completely worthless.....

Next they will nerf our boons and virtues...

and engineer have been nerfed exactly EVERY patch So guardians still not having it that bad.

PS this is bug fix, not class nerf. Not much to discuss

[Coren2]

Good lord, one change and people are running for the hills and abandoning their characters... If I did that for my ritualist on GW factions when it first came out...

Seriously, why blow things way out of proportion? ANet fixed a bug, get over it.

Edited by Coren2, 30 January 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Eon Lilu]

Killyox, on 30 January 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

and engineer have been nerfed exactly EVERY patch So guardians still not having it that bad.

PS this is bug fix, not class nerf. Not much to discuss

Making 4 of our utility's and a trait potentially worthless in higher content, dungeons and fractals is a nerf...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Killyox, on 30 January 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

and engineer have been nerfed exactly EVERY patch So guardians still not having it that bad.

PS this is bug fix, not class nerf. Not much to discuss

I play both as mains.  Engineer got a HUGE buff this patch.  In fact offhand I can't even think of any nerfs to engineer, except for them reducing direct damage on grenades in exchange for, again, a massive buff to condition damage.  If you were specced for bleed grenades before you actually dealt even more than you could before (since they were about equal in terms of overall damage output).

By comparison I've yet to see a single guardian buff other than them merging Honorable Shield and Defender's Shield.

[KrayZ33]

Hammer Guardian

3x auto attack -> dodge -> leap

do people still play Hammer-style? or is everyone running around with a GS now

I can't believe people run on 100% endurance for that long though that it actually matterrs

Edited by KrayZ33, 30 January 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[chefwaffle]

Strife025, on 29 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Not even a nerf to guardians, it's a fix to dodge rolls in general that happened to "fix" something beneficial because dodge rolls were broken with auto attack on.

^ This.
Quite an overreaction by the OP.

As for spirit weapons, I don't see anyone using them in dungeons so it doesn't really matter that much.

[Thaddeuz]

chefwaffle, on 30 January 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

^ This.
Quite an overreaction by the OP.

As for spirit weapons, I don't see anyone using them in dungeons so it doesn't really matter that much.

True, but in fractal they are really useful (at least in high level fractal).

In my opinion, the dogde modification is not a nerf but a bug (or event exploit) fix.

For the health of our Spirit Weapons, this is definitively a nerf. The problem is that, maybe the Shield of Avenger was a bit overpowered, but why nerf ALL spirit weapons. The 3 other weapons were just fine before, useful but really situational skills. I think, the Shield of Avenger needed to be nerf (event if i'm a guardian loving this skill), but i was a really horrible way to do it.

[G L J]

heatrr, on 30 January 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Would not using Wall of Reflection be a viable alternative then?
Example: http://www.youtube.c...&v=OH6Oearkm0Y#!

In upper level fractals it is common to run both Wall of Reflections and Shield of the Avenger.

chefwaffle, on 30 January 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

As for spirit weapons, I don't see anyone using them in dungeons so it doesn't really matter that much.

As was previously said, Shield of the Avenger is pretty much required for higher level fractals. You pretty much cannot tank some the damage.

[Eon Lilu]

Thaddeuz, on 30 January 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I think, the Shield of Avenger needed to be nerf (event if i'm a guardian loving this skill), but i was a really horrible way to do it.

Just lazyness on Anet's part, instead of looking at how one skill worked and changing the actual skill or effectiveness, they just lowered the spirit health on all 4 skills making 4 skills worthless just to nerf one skill?

PURE LAZYNESS....

10 second fix instead of actually looking at the problem and finding a decent solution...nope just change a health number and voila...we screw up spirits for the guardian...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[Killyox]

GuanglaiKangyi, on 30 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I play both as mains.  Engineer got a HUGE buff this patch.  In fact offhand I can't even think of any nerfs to engineer, except for them reducing direct damage on grenades in exchange for, again, a massive buff to condition damage.  If you were specced for bleed grenades before you actually dealt even more than you could before (since they were about equal in terms of overall damage output).

By comparison I've yet to see a single guardian buff other than them merging Honorable Shield and Defender's Shield.

bug fixes rather

[prince vingador]

Lordkrall, on 29 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

This is what you get for exploiting a broken mechanic. If you build your whole play around that you are simply stupid.

This is not a nerf. It is a BUGFIX.

this is funny, i get 2 infractions for calling u a fanboy,wich u are because u defend everything anet does,being called a fanboy is not ofensive yet i get 2 infractions,and u are calling other member STUPID and your post dont get deleted,i guess diferent rules for the fanboys.strange

[Eon Lilu]

prince vingador, on 31 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

this is funny, i get 2 infractions for calling u a fanboy,wich u are because u defend everything anet does,being called a fanboy is not ofensive yet i get 2 infractions,and u are calling other member STUPID and your post dont get deleted,i guess diferent rules for the fanboys.strange

It's true though Lordkrall does jump on anyone who says anything negative about anet or the game and debates it with some extremely strange logic lol.

They nerfed spirit weapons to the point that they are useless and wrecking 4 utility skills on guardian, instead of just looking at shield of avenger and adjusting that one skill to be less effective....

Shield of Avenger needed a nerf, not every spirit weapon, the skill needed to be less effective, not have it's health nerfed to be not usefull..

Is just lazy changes on Anet's part....they could of bothered to look into it more...instead they did the quick easy fix with no thought into it and just wrecked not one skill but 4 skills..

Edited by Eon Lilu, 31 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[ZCKS]

Here's hoping they look at spirit weapons soon & make them actually viable instead of a gimmick (like they were before the nerf).

God knows they will probably see enough of a drop off in people using them to make them wonder what they did wrong.

[jazzbrownie]

prince vingador, on 31 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

this is funny, i get 2 infractions for calling u a fanboy,wich u are because u defend everything anet does,being called a fanboy is not ofensive yet i get 2 infractions,and u are calling other member STUPID and your post dont get deleted,i guess diferent rules for the fanboys.strange

"Fanboy" is offensive.  It implies stupidity and lacking the capacity to think for yourself.  It's essentially the racial slur that gamers throw around in order to belittle and insult other gamers they have a disagreement with, so don't play innocent (regardless of whether or not you may be right in your assessment).

[KaptainO]

Wait there are 4 spirit weapon utilities???

Who knew!

[draxynnic]

AzureRogue, on 29 January 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I think you're forgetting that sometimes dodging is actually worthwhile outside of Elusive Power - meaning you may very well be dodging to dodge and getting Elusive Power as a result anyways (which is, imo, what it was intended for).  I DO enjoy, though, that almost every profession forum has repeatedly posted that they've been constantly nerfed since release (at least, Guards, Eles, Mesmers, and Thieves all seem to post that with each update at least a few times - not sure on the others because I don't play them).

Engineers do. Rangers, necromancers and warriors tend to feel they're being ignored despite needing buffs. Grass is greener on the other side indeed.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

draxynnic, on 03 February 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Engineers do. Rangers, necromancers and warriors tend to feel they're being ignored despite needing buffs. Grass is greener on the other side indeed.

Warriors, rangers, and engineers actually get constant (if small) buffs every patch, which is why it's funny.  Guardians and thieves have been the only classes that have been consistently nerfed I think.  Mesmers are kind of up in the air, they get buffs and nerfs.