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Limit to res in dungeons


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#1 Brizna

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:58 AM

As of last patch: While in a dungeon as long as anyone in the party is in combat mode no one can use a waypoint to resurrect.

Let me start by saying I do like it, it was ludicrous during my first runs when killing the "lovers" way back by continuously rushing to them only to defeat them by breaking their mutual love with our naked beauty, lol. I actually asked for something like this in the forums. But i do have one worry.

Me asking for it was based on the assumption that dungeons would be rebalanced and I see nothing of the sort (for the most part). I don't really mind for most encounters, barring the unavoidable mess our guild does from time to time we don't generally incur in fatalities in most encounters but some bosses do scare me a bit, mostly: Lupicus Giganticus (aka the HP pile) Eeeeek! it was hard enough as it was with that long run, but someone always died there, having it back 1 minute later is beter than losing it for good.

Has anyone tried him after the patch?? What was your impression?

Edited by Brizna, 29 January 2013 - 02:00 AM.


#2 JHCinSC

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:03 AM

Yeah, I am not sure that I like this change at all.  Keeping a couple of people in combat while the dead run back ensured the guy you were fighting didn't regen totally.  Now it's guaranteed as if you have half your party down there is no way to rez them as you will die while in rez lock.  So all you get is damaged armor and a fully regenerated enemy.  Luckily Anet knows what fun looks like.

#3 Crantson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:09 AM

If they did not change the boss encounters then, yeah, I have to agree - one of the more boneheaded things ANet has ever done.

#4 cheezewiz

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:36 AM

this is a lot better. Im pretty sure every class has an instant revive skill. Now people will actually USE them! :o
How can you call this a bonehead move? Arnt most, if not all MMO's like this? Ive never played an mmo where you could just respawn and run back into the boss fight.

#5 Inraged Twitch

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:41 AM

^^ash legion kits work in res dont they?

#6 Crantson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:27 AM

I call it boneheaded because it is.

Very few of the experienced groups I have been with have needed to use wp while in combat.  In fact, that is why they were able to skip contend - because they knew they would not be wp rezing and running back through the mobs they left unfought.

The ones who needed the wp were the people trying out the dungeon for the first few times.

The only thing this change does is make sure people don't get to try out dungeons they don't know and to limit dungeons to those who are already experienced with them.

So if their goal was to lock inexperienced players out of content - well, it's a brilliant move.

If not - then it was the most boneheaded decisions I have seen them make in a long time.

#7 Arenion

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:35 AM

It's making PUG's unbearable.

I get some very shitty teams sometimes and i normally carry them by surviving long enough for them to come back so that it doesn't reset.

Now I am screwed and i guess i have no choice but to get a active guild to get some decent dungeon buddies :S

Edited by Arenion, 29 January 2013 - 04:35 AM.


#8 PhDusk

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

Arah p3 was terrible with people who did not know what they were doing. We got to lupi and just quit cause it was never going to happen. I foresee dungeons getting more exclusive.

#9 chaosdude

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:57 AM

Maybe a timer would have been better suited?  Also found a bug, was in SE, dieing in lava will cause your character to be in combat even though they are dead.

#10 Omedon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

View PostArenion, on 29 January 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

It's making PUG's unbearable.



PUGs have never been intended for this content, or we'd have a "proper" dungeon finder, which you'll note GW2 is heavily resisting even considering.  GW2 dungeons are team content, not simply group content.  Teams know and are personally invested in each other before the dungeon.  Because of this, teams like each other.  Teams are committed to "learn and burn" over time, time and again, laugh off wipes, and are willing to come back tomorrow, or next week.  

I don't have a team (well... not one that cares about dungeons), therefore this isn't my content  and I'm fine with that, because I "get it," and have since before launch.

Perhaps some of you need to say something like this in the mirror, and re-allocate your content preferences, because there's tons to do in GW2.

Edited by Omedon, 29 January 2013 - 08:53 AM.

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#11 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

If they made "rez skills" to be usable also on dead ppl (remember they updated them to being used only on downed ppl?)
And/or made the "rez time" twice as fast i would be fine...

If this is the way to ensure ppl cooperate and play carefully... i dont know... this is just a poor choice imho.
Ppl dont even co-operate to get Might stacks from a Fire Field, how can they even argue they will play more "team oriented" when their only interest will be "i must not die, i must not die, i must not die, i must not die..."

#12 Gerroh

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

Shit players are gonna have a shit time. Some of the dungeons need some difficulty toned, but I always hated with a burning passion the people who'd say "We have to die and run back", like in CoF with the "1-2-2" part. Wimps. My guild fights that part together and to the death.

#13 Omedon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostPhDusk, on 29 January 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I foresee dungeons getting more exclusive.

I can certainly agree with this.  I always thought they would be, and knew something like this was coming, where people were made to realize that "no, five people you throw together just standing around won't necessarily complete this, go make friends."

View PostGerroh, on 29 January 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

My guild fights that part together and to the death.

THAT... sounds like a team. :)

Edited by Omedon, 29 January 2013 - 08:30 AM.

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#14 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:31 AM

Ur guild, not PUGS
"Hardcore players" not "Casual ones"

I dont know... i personally havent this problem as i often run with my guild but i think about about what could i feel if i was a Casual without a guild... it's just... MEH

#15 Omedon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:34 AM

View PostFenice_86, on 29 January 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Ur guild, not PUGS
"Hardcore players" not "Casual ones"

Yes, and there is content for both in GW2.  As a casual player, I applaud this. Dungeons aren't my thing, but this change is more true to the vision of the GW2 dungeons' intent from day one.

View PostCrantson, on 29 January 2013 - 03:27 AM, said:

The only thing this change does is make sure people don't get to try out dungeons they don't know and to limit dungeons to those who are already experienced with them.

Or those with human, friendly teams willing to wipe a few times to teach.  You know, actual teams, the demographic this content is designed and intended for.  It's a smaller demographic than many might think, and unless we as a community "grow a heart," it will stay that way.  I'm not optimistic on that score, it is the internet after all.  Thankfully there is A LOT more to do in GW2.

Edited by Omedon, 29 January 2013 - 08:49 AM.

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#16 Omedon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:45 AM

Didn't intend the double post, please delete.

Edited by Omedon, 29 January 2013 - 08:45 AM.

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#17 HederaHelix

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

It doesn't seem so bad to me.  Just means you have to teach people different thigns other then "If you die, WP and get back ASAP" =)  We did all paths of HotW, and All Paths of CoF tonight and while it took some getting used to, my team totally came up with great strategies for the encounters without having to use WPs at all.  It was the most fantastic fun I have had in some time in a dungeon. I, for one, applaud this change.

#18 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:20 AM

View PostOmedon, on 29 January 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Yes, and there is content for both in GW2.  As a casual player, I applaud this. Dungeons aren't my thing, but this change is more true to the vision of the GW2 dungeons' intent from day one.

Mind listing that casual content?


EDIT:
As I said previously, Phase 2 should have happened BEFORE removing the ability to rez.

Edited by Protoss, 29 January 2013 - 10:24 AM.


#19 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostHederaHelix, on 29 January 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

It doesn't seem so bad to me.  Just means you have to teach people different thigns other then "If you die, WP and get back ASAP" =)  We did all paths of HotW, and All Paths of CoF tonight and while it took some getting used to, my team totally came up with great strategies for the encounters without having to use WPs at all.  It was the most fantastic fun I have had in some time in a dungeon. I, for one, applaud this change.

How is CoF path 2? (the part in which u have to protect Magg while he plants the bomb)

#20 XPhiler

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

View PostProtoss, on 29 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Mind listing that casual content?


EDIT:
As I said previously, Phase 2 should have happened BEFORE removing the ability to rez.

Lets see... there's
Dailies,
Dynamic Events,
Exploration,
Jumping Puzzles,
WvW,
Crafting,
Gathering,
SPvP

Lots of stuff you can log in for 1 hr now and then and enjoy really!

#21 Just Horus

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:30 AM

There was no vision or intent ever to make dungeons in GW2 less accessible to PUGs. Sounds like shit that was just made up. Just because it didn't cater to PUGs with a dungeon finder doesn't mean they were designed in spite of them.

I haven't tried dungeons since this update but I do recall having to solo bosses while my team ran back from a WP. All this means is that I either have to leave my team, get kicked from my team, or have them suck it up cause I'm not going to let the boss reset just so they can die again.

#22 Coren2

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

I think it's a great idea. As previously stated, it stops PUGs acting like idiots and actually be more careful.

The only "problem" as it were, would be path.2 of CoF, where most parties who don't have the DPS necessary to fight the flame legion while Maggs built his bombs, would kite around the mobs until he was done.

Hopefully the changes ANet put into place for take that into consideration.

#23 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:44 AM

My 2cents about what they should do to improve "team working"
  • Improve chat visibility
  • Allow players (like in GW1) to "call their builds" in chat so ppl can equip utilities accordingly
  • Allow players to "call skills they are using" like: "I'm casting Ring of Fire on Mountain Minotaur!" (GW1 style)
This would actually increase team work because ppl knows what others are going to cast and make proper use of Combo Fields and utilities

#24 Sevens

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

View PostOmedon, on 29 January 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

PUGs have never been intended for this content, or we'd have a "proper" dungeon finder, which you'll note GW2 is heavily resisting even considering.  GW2 dungeons are team content, not simply group content.  Teams know and are personally invested in each other before the dungeon.  Because of this, teams like each other.  Teams are committed to "learn and burn" over time, time and again, laugh off wipes, and are willing to come back tomorrow, or next week.  

I don't have a team (well... not one that cares about dungeons), therefore this isn't my content  and I'm fine with that, because I "get it," and have since before launch.

Perhaps some of you need to say something like this in the mirror, and re-allocate your content preferences, because there's tons to do in GW2.
Quoted for truth
Also this is only Phase 1
Phase 2 will have them readjusting and retuning the boss encounters, this is all info easily found right here on Guru.

#25 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

Well it's funny when who is dead start to yell "die please, we have to rez". Ignoring them explaining you're nearly done lead you to 2 results: be kicked, or players leaving. Someone here forgot what kind of personality disorder players play on this game maybe? :P

#26 Ship Soo

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:59 PM

I second the motion that this is a great development.


if it cuts down on the "Zerg till you win" movement...

It's for the better.


People actually have to learn to survive, which is good.

Dungeons were already getting exploited, with easy cut throughs and lack of penalties.

This is a pretty big penalty and we ran into it last night. Not everyone read the patch notes and were SO mad because they "couldn't seem to use the WP !!! WTF !!! BUGGED !"

I imagine PUGS are going to be rage-fests for awhile till people figure it out.
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#27 Schwarzseher

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

IMHO it is a bad move without toning down some of the bosses. Maybe allow everyone to rez at least once in a fight but that's it. The way it is now I think I'll have a hard time getting my armor because I need to find people because I got no team/guild willing to do the dungeons I wanna do.

#28 Brizna

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

CoF2 Magg's final event before end boss is one of the encounters that has been rebalanced, mobs are easier now and killing them all is not just posible but easy, on the other hand Anet has added Charr Assasins that directly go after Magg's butt ignoring party members and will make short work of him unless you kill them all, about 10 o them spawn in sequence while plenty more regular chars chase your party.
I tried it wit a PUG and while the party generally survived the char onslaught we only managed to get to 80% one time before Magg was killed. Very doable for real teams, PUGS get unlucky here at least until people start realizing Magg is more important than the mobs in this battle.

Edited by Brizna, 29 January 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#29 Fenice_86

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostBrizna, on 29 January 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

CoF2 Magg's final event before end boss is one of the encounters that has been rebalanced, mobs are easier now and killing them all is not just posible but easy, on the other hand Anet has added Charr Assasins that directly go after Magg's butt ignoring party members and will make short work of him unless you kill them all, about 10 o them spawn in sequence while plenty more regular chars chase your party.
I tried it wit a PUG and while the party generally survived the char onslaught we only managed to get to 80% one time before Magg was killed. Very doable for real teams, PUGS get unlucky here at least until people start realizing Magg is more important than the mobs in this battle.

Thx for info :)

#30 Shadow209

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

So you cant zerg the bosses anymore... Basically it's a good thing, but in a good team you don't have to anyway, it may prevent bad teams from completing the dungeon, though, which is bad, since I always run in PUGs (I have a little guild with RL friends, but we're not enough to run dungeons alone)

I think, even though I really hate gear checks, I'll have to start asking party members I don't know to link their equipment. Imho, everything's doable with a good PUG, problem is, those are rare.

I hope, they rebalanced a lot of fights, like they did with magg, then it won't be too much of a problem. On the other hand, that means removing those parts, that are challanging for good teams, which may make dungeons less fun for those ppl. Let's see, how this turns out, can't tell yet, if it's good or bad.




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