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#1 ShezuTsukai

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

I've noticed none of the ascended gear has precision, healing, or winter as a primary.

I'm wondering does Anet feel they are too powerful or worthless to be placed as a primary for ascended gear.

#2 Bloggi

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:48 AM

View PostShezuTsukai, on 29 January 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

I've noticed none of the ascended gear has precision, healing, or winter as a primary.

Sorry, assume 'winter' is a typo?

#3 Graywolf4409

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:51 AM

winter armor uses snowflakes and gives stuff like boon duration AFAIK.

Probably what he means

#4 Gerroh

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:55 AM

Healing power is worthless. Giver(Winter/boon&cond duration) stuff didn't work until tonight and was a festive thing anyway.
Anet probably wants to avoid people getting 100% crit without boons/traits/etc, so I'd imagine they don't want too many ++precision ascended stuff.
Or at least that's my idea.

#5 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:21 AM

Knights is also missing and I have been asking on official forums for months along with many others with still zero communication from Anet about it, which sucks because they have so many stat types missing from ascended noone is sure what to pick for ascended items and spend a few hundred ecto's on and crap loads of stuff to upgrade...

Because 3 weeks later they could bring out the stats you really want....

The system sucks in general...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 03:22 AM.


#6 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Healing power is worthless. Giver(Winter/boon&cond duration) stuff didn't work until tonight and was a festive thing anyway.
Anet probably wants to avoid people getting 100% crit without boons/traits/etc, so I'd imagine they don't want too many ++precision ascended stuff.
Or at least that's my idea.
Just some more screwed junk they removed asap from the game after the festivity, don't worry ;)

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 30 January 2013 - 07:48 AM.


#7 Yui San

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Healing power is worthless.

Just because you don't use it or don't like it, it doesn't mean that Healing Power is worthless. I've maide countless good experiences with my support Guardian with high healing power on hundreds of dungeon runs. ;-)

#8 Rumstein

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:03 AM

healing power isnt ENTIRELY worthless.

Its just that most skills have such a terrible coefficient that it SEEMS worthless.

At least... on an Ele, cleansing wave has a 1.0 coefficient. And it casts on dodge with evasive arcana...
Thats pretty Baus.

#9 Killyox

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostLucas Ashrock, on 30 January 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Just some more screwed junk they removed asap from the game after the festivity, don't worry ;)

It's not removed. You can still craft it and there are still mats for it to be bought.

View PostRumstein, on 30 January 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

healing power isnt ENTIRELY worthless.

Its just that most skills have such a terrible coefficient that it SEEMS worthless.

At least... on an Ele, cleansing wave has a 1.0 coefficient. And it casts on dodge with evasive arcana...
Thats pretty Baus.

Guardians dodge heal has huge coefficient with healing power.

#10 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostKillyox, on 30 January 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Guardians dodge heal has huge coefficient with healing power.

Self heal aswell get a huge boost from it. 1500-2000 heal x 2 skills on staff + an extra almost full heal for yourself on staff from buffing allies through might stcks...is like having 4-5 extra number 6 heal skills for your whole team...

With 950-1000 in healing your basically indestructable and so is your group along with retaliation and protection through virtues and shouts traited to buff groups and cure all conditions turning them into more boons. You can even keep the npc's alive in ascalon fractal so they kill the boss for you in seconds. :P

You still can have plenty of crit chance, crit damage and with perma 25 stacks of might in groups plus fury stacking+ food and oils....your still at 2000-2500 power most of the time with high crits. So damage is fine.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 10:02 AM.


#11 Gerroh

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

View PostYui San, on 30 January 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Just because you don't use it or don't like it, it doesn't mean that Healing Power is worthless. I've maide countless good experiences with my support Guardian with high healing power on hundreds of dungeon runs. ;-)

No, it's worthless.
Most guardian skills give less than 1 health per 1 healing power. Self heals usually give 1 health per 1 healing power. If you give up 1k of another stat to get 1k healing power, you'll heal for a whopping 2-3k more(Which'll be about 20% of the total health you heal on allies) using your entire bar full of heals as a guardian. If you had 1k of another stat, you could contribute significantly to damage or make yourself a lot more durable, making you a much more reliable support.

Edited by Gerroh, 30 January 2013 - 10:44 AM.


#12 Senatic

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

No, it's worthless.
Most guardian skills give less than 1 health per 1 healing power. Self heals usually give 1 health per 1 healing power. If you give up 1k of another stat to get 1k healing power, you'll heal for a whopping 2-3k more(Which'll be about 20% of the total health you heal on allies) using your entire bar full of heals as a guardian. If you had 1k of another stat, you could contribute significantly to damage or make yourself a lot more durable, making you a much more reliable support.

Exaggerate much? The only Guardian skills that take a percentage off of your HP as a bonus to healing are regeneration skills, Consecration skills, Symbols (when using Writ of the Merciful) and Bow of Truth.

Empower, Orb of Light, Virtue of Resolve, Heal Area, Merciful Intervention, Healing Breeze all gains a 100% benefit from HP.

Get your healing power up to 2k and these skills do a shit ton of difference. I believe only a ignorant person who truly hasn't tried to make a real healing guardian would believe healing power to be useless. And providing your allies with real healing is a lot more useful then adding a few stacks of might or giving them some retaliation and protection for a few seconds, after which they stand uselessly whaling at a boss doing so little damage it's sad. Which is what most guardians do.

You're a lot more useful keeping those warriors and theifs who can do 30k damage in a few seconds on their feet instead of building a tanky guardian and doing 8k damage in the same amount of time while not really helping your team much at all.

Also, tanks are overrated.

Edited by Senatic, 30 January 2013 - 11:31 AM.


#13 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:50 PM

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

No, it's worthless.
Most guardian skills give less than 1 health per 1 healing power. Self heals usually give 1 health per 1 healing power. If you give up 1k of another stat to get 1k healing power, you'll heal for a whopping 2-3k more(Which'll be about 20% of the total health you heal on allies) using your entire bar full of heals as a guardian. If you had 1k of another stat, you could contribute significantly to damage or make yourself a lot more durable, making you a much more reliable support.

This is so far from the truth, go roll a might stacking, shout, high crit conditions into boons healing build. Its ridiculous how much I can tank, how many boons/heals I can dish out for the group, how many conditions I removed and turn into boons, how much buffs and heals I give myself and group, is like having an extra 4-5 full heal skills, my personal heal skill is over 75% full heal, I can tank like crazy, buff like crazy, heal like crazy and my damage is high because of high crits = group might plus groups have perma fury + perma 25 stacks of might = high power aswell for whole group especially if you have warriors. So I do great damage, awesome buffing and healing and have more than enough survavibility, if anything I would not sacrifice the healing, I would sacrifice my toughness and vitality for more crits or power as i dont need the amount of survivability I have already because a healing tank is tanking through balancing there health bar and blocking attacks, dodging attacks.

Also because the group barely has to worry about being knocked down, barely has to worry about health or staying alive, all they have to do is max dps and time warps, let me worry about keeping everyone alive, stopping them from being knocked down or having conditions, keeping retaliation up etc etc. Yeah sure players still need to take care of themselves and be skilled players. Also it means I am dedicated res person if anyone makes mistakes, I can be locked in res for ages while taking hits without dying while still giving out shouts, heals and condition, boons. While the rest of the team keep giving out max damage and don't have to worry about the player that is down.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 02:59 PM.


#14 Lucas Ashrock

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

I have to agree, the Eon gameplay explained, if truly so effective, is pretty precious as guardian in a team.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 30 January 2013 - 03:00 PM.


#15 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostSenatic, on 30 January 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Exaggerate much? The only Guardian skills that take a percentage off of your HP as a bonus to healing are regeneration skills, Consecration skills, Symbols (when using Writ of the Merciful) and Bow of Truth.

Empower, Orb of Light, Virtue of Resolve, Heal Area, Merciful Intervention, Healing Breeze all gains a 100% benefit from HP.
Also, tanks are overrated.

Exactly and your not even covering all the things that take 100% from healing, there is more. Also you only need 900-1000 in healing to be very effective with it, leaving you plenty for high crits, or toughness / vitality. Power is not so much of an issue since high crits give your group might+staff stacking might and most groups have perma  25 might stacks and fury up most of the time.

I just wish they would bring out more varied version of ascended items that goes with this build.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 03:08 PM.


#16 Verene

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 30 January 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Exactly and your not even covering all the things that take 100% from healing, there is more. Also you only need 900-1000 in healing to be very effective with it, leaving you plenty for high crits, or toughness / vitality. Power is not so much of an issue since high crits give your group might+staff stacking might and most groups have perma  25 might stacks and fury up most of the time.

I just wish they would bring out more varied version of ascended items that goes with this build.

If you're a guardian, healing power and vitality go hand-in-hand. They're in the same trait line. My guardian has 20 points in that line and has ridiculously high healing power and about 19,000 health on average.

And yeah, healing power is amazing. I love being able to heal over half my max health with Signet of Resolve, or Empower healing everyone around me for 3k+ as well as giving might...I go staff/mace+focus, so just about everything I do heals. It's great.

Anyone who says "healing power sucks" has probably only ever played a glass cannon.

Edited by Verene, 30 January 2013 - 03:13 PM.


#17 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

View PostVerene, on 30 January 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

If you're a guardian, healing power and vitality go hand-in-hand. They're in the same trait line. My guardian has 20 points in that line and has ridiculously high healing power and about 19,000 health on average.

And yeah, healing power is amazing. I love being able to heal over half my max health with Signet of Resolve, or Empower healing everyone around me for 3k+ as well as giving might...I go staff/mace+focus, so just about everything I do heals. It's great.

Anyone who says "healing power sucks" has probably only ever played a glass cannon.

lol I think we have same build, I also use mace+focus and staff and sometimes switch out to sceptor+focus and staff. Sometimes when I know it will be super easy I will switch out to hammer for fun. :)

The most annoying thing though is how Anet have left out certain stat types in ascended items, means making the builds you want to use really annoying and fiddly...

After wasting gold and materials...they could also bring out new ascended stats making your time spent wasted.

I wish they did not release ascended stuff until they were ready with all the stat types. 250 ecto's plus other things is alot to invest into an item you may want to change stats later...Anet need to wake up to this fact and give us more options.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#18 Westwater

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

I've been playing Guardian in pve and pvp since the betas, I've played every build under the sun, and healing power is utter garbage.  The moves that it scales decently with are either never used anyways, or they have some ridiculous drawback that makes them ineffective.  If your group is so bad that it relies on 20% extra heals, then it's their fault, not yours.  You can contribute far more to the group with other stats like extra crit which can translate into more stacks of might via Empowering Might.  If you get higher toughness you can translate 11% of that via traits and maintenance oil into precision, thereby raising both your survivability and damage output, and in turn, the group's damage output.  If healing power scaling was effectively doubled for most things, then it might have a place in your build but currently it's wasted stats that only prove to slow a group down.
It's one step above Magic Find.

Edited by Westwater, 31 January 2013 - 04:25 AM.


#19 Darkobra

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

No, it's worthless.
Most guardian skills give less than 1 health per 1 healing power. Self heals usually give 1 health per 1 healing power. If you give up 1k of another stat to get 1k healing power, you'll heal for a whopping 2-3k more(Which'll be about 20% of the total health you heal on allies) using your entire bar full of heals as a guardian. If you had 1k of another stat, you could contribute significantly to damage or make yourself a lot more durable, making you a much more reliable support.

If you're after damage, play another class. The guardian's support and healing roles are incredibly viable if the person knows how to play.

#20 Gerroh

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

As a general response to everyone yapping about healing guardian: Supporting through damage reduction is 1000 times more useful than healing, and slapping on healing power becomes completely pointless if you know what you're doing. You should be reducing damage, have survivability in case you need to res or put yourself in the line of fire, and thwap things with staff auto attack for a bit of extra total party damage. Healing power simply does not contribute enough to be worth it. Too much has to be sacrificed to make it useful.
Guardian was my first profession, still one of my mains, and I've seen very little difference in how much I heal now that I've gotten rid of healing power as opposed to when I was heavily invested in it. Conversely, I've seen an increase in my damage and survivability with my current stats.
I'm not after damage, but part of support is increasing the party's damage(usually through might or vulnerability). It's not just healing.

Healing power's worthless(or at the very least, underpowered), and I'm sticking to that.

Edited by Gerroh, 30 January 2013 - 07:53 PM.


#21 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

As a general response to everyone yapping about healing guardian: Supporting through damage reduction is 1000 times more useful than healing, and slapping on healing power becomes completely pointless if you know what you're doing. You should be reducing damage, have survivability in case you need to res or put yourself in the line of fire, and thwap things with staff auto attack for a bit of extra total party damage. Healing power simply does not contribute enough to be worth it. Too much has to be sacrificed to make it useful.
Guardian was my first profession, still one of my mains, and I've seen very little difference in how much I heal now that I've gotten rid of healing power as opposed to when I was heavily invested in it. Conversely, I've seen an increase in my damage and survivability with my current stats.
I'm not after damage, but part of support is increasing the party's damage(usually through might or vulnerability). It's not just healing.

Healing power's worthless(or at the very least, underpowered), and I'm sticking to that.
Did you even read my post? It covers and blows everything you just said out of the water...

You don't lose any damage reduction not even close...you still give massive damage to the group and yourself, your still a crazy tank, you can keep up retaliation, protection, and regeneration most of the time, your shouts not only cure conditons but actually turn those conditions into boons...

So far its obvious you have no idea what your talking about and are clueless...

You still have crazy support, crazy tank, and good damage and are giving might to the group at high numbers all the time...while taking most of the damage...and healing everything around you..your even healing yourself by giving boons to other party members...you are also the dedicated res person aswell..

Its very obvious from your post you do not know how guardian traits work or how healing works...

View PostEon Lilu, on 30 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

This is so far from the truth, go roll a might stacking, shout, high crit conditions into boons healing build. Its ridiculous how much I can tank, how many boons/heals I can dish out for the group, how many conditions I removed and turn into boons, how much buffs and heals I give myself and group, is like having an extra 4-5 full heal skills, my personal heal skill is over 75% full heal, I can tank like crazy, buff like crazy, heal like crazy and my damage is high because of high crits = group might plus groups have perma fury + perma 25 stacks of might = high power aswell for whole group especially if you have warriors. So I do great damage, awesome buffing and healing and have more than enough survavibility, if anything I would not sacrifice the healing, I would sacrifice my toughness and vitality for more crits or power as i dont need the amount of survivability I have already because a healing tank is tanking through balancing there health bar and blocking attacks, dodging attacks.

Also because the group barely has to worry about being knocked down, barely has to worry about health or staying alive, all they have to do is max dps and time warps, let me worry about keeping everyone alive, stopping them from being knocked down or having conditions, keeping retaliation up etc etc. Yeah sure players still need to take care of themselves and be skilled players. Also it means I am dedicated res person if anyone makes mistakes, I can be locked in res for ages while taking hits without dying while still giving out shouts, heals and condition, boons. While the rest of the team keep giving out max damage and don't have to worry about the player that is down.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 08:25 PM.


#22 Verene

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 30 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

lol I think we have same build, I also use mace+focus and staff and sometimes switch out to sceptor+focus and staff. Sometimes when I know it will be super easy I will switch out to hammer for fun. :)

The most annoying thing though is how Anet have left out certain stat types in ascended items, means making the builds you want to use really annoying and fiddly...

After wasting gold and materials...they could also bring out new ascended stats making your time spent wasted.

I wish they did not release ascended stuff until they were ready with all the stat types. 250 ecto's plus other things is alot to invest into an item you may want to change stats later...Anet need to wake up to this fact and give us more options.

Sounds like we do! I swap in scepter at times when I need range, and I keep a hammer around for fun (I love the weapon but don't get to play with it too much).

View PostGerroh, on 30 January 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

As a general response to everyone yapping about healing guardian: Supporting through damage reduction is 1000 times more useful than healing, and slapping on healing power becomes completely pointless if you know what you're doing. You should be reducing damage, have survivability in case you need to res or put yourself in the line of fire, and thwap things with staff auto attack for a bit of extra total party damage. Healing power simply does not contribute enough to be worth it. Too much has to be sacrificed to make it useful.
Guardian was my first profession, still one of my mains, and I've seen very little difference in how much I heal now that I've gotten rid of healing power as opposed to when I was heavily invested in it. Conversely, I've seen an increase in my damage and survivability with my current stats.
I'm not after damage, but part of support is increasing the party's damage(usually through might or vulnerability). It's not just healing.

Healing power's worthless(or at the very least, underpowered), and I'm sticking to that.

If you play a guardian, speccing into healing power does not require sacrificing survivability at all, because it is in the same trait line as vitality. High vitality is good, because that's what you need to survive against conditions, and the default HP pool for guardian is the same as thief and ele - the smallest in the game.

And any guardian worth their keep is going to be packing ways to reduce incoming damage. That doesn't make healing power worthless. Shouts and virtues aren't going to be off cooldown 100% of the time, and being as all of the "heal other people" skills have that as a side effect and not a main purpose of the skill, you can double up on giving boons and doing damage and healing at the same time.

#23 Darkobra

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

Eon's pretty much nailed it. Everything that needs to be said is said in his post alone.

So on the topic, I've noticed a distinct lack of precision and healing gear for my elementalist too when it comes to Ascended. Sometimes I like to switch roles as needed.

#24 lmaonade

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

View PostEon Lilu, on 30 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

Did you even read my post? It covers and blows everything you just said out of the water...

You don't lose any damage reduction not even close...you still give massive damage to the group and yourself, your still a crazy tank, you can keep up retaliation, protection, and regeneration most of the time, your shouts not only cure conditons but actually turn those conditions into boons...

So far its obvious you have no idea what your talking about and are clueless...

You still have crazy support, crazy tank, and good damage and are giving might to the group at high numbers all the time...while taking most of the damage...and healing everything around you..your even healing yourself by giving boons to other party members...you are also the dedicated res person aswell..

Its very obvious from your post you do not know how guardian traits work or how healing works...

you haven't said anything to convince me because I can run a altruistic healing/might stacking build WITHOUT extra healing power and still have the same effectiveness as you, probably even more since I actually deal damage. I run a 0/0/30/30/10 with shouts and consecrations with a full set of Berserker's gear, I crit for actually heavy amounts of damage and still dish out a ton of boon support, and guess what? I don't need any healing power in my gear because the team I run with is experienced and rarely ever gets hit, let alone be downed.

now answer this for me, why should I get healing power as a stat if there is no need for me to get any​?

Edited by lmaonade, 30 January 2013 - 10:59 PM.


#25 Eon Lilu

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

View Postlmaonade, on 30 January 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

you haven't said anything to convince me because I can run a altruistic healing/might stacking build WITHOUT extra healing power and still have the same effectiveness as you, probably even more since I actually deal damage. I run a 0/0/30/30/10 with shouts and consecrations with a full set of Berserker's gear, I crit for actually heavy amounts of damage and still dish out a ton of boon support, and guess what? I don't need any healing power in my gear because the team I run with is experienced and rarely ever gets hit, let alone be downed.

now answer this for me, why should I get healing power as a stat if there is no need for me to get any​?

For guild group organised maybe if you have a very good group who never gets hit or makes mistakes and works with combo's and strategy then you don't need it as much. If one or two of you make mistakes whole group wipes...

I tend to sometimes play with alot of other guilds, newbs, pugs, lower fractal players with less agony, so for me it's needed and means players can make a few mistakes every now and again without it costing the entire run or group and having wipes less often.

I also have a more damage focus set like you for when it's usefull. So far though I much prefer my extra healing/crit set, so many times it has saved the group or myself from going down or being able to hold agro long enough to get the rest of the team back up. Especially in groups that are not as experienced or are learning.

Unless your in a massive guild that does nothing but run dungeons, or smaller dungeon running guilds that are super active, you won't always be able to get a fully organised group together everyday at any time of day and sometimes I play at very odd time, like 2am or something.

To get back on topic, the whole point was to show and address how many different people want to play many different ways with many different builds, they should all be given the option to have the ascended stats they wish to use...especially if exotic versions of the same stats already exist in the game and when the materials invested are expensive and a long grind to get...

Can you imagine you don't see the stats you would like in ascended backpiece...so you go for the next best thing...invest 1800 relics, 250-500 ecto's..and other materials...then 2 months later Anet releases the stats you want for your build.....is just wrong...why they release half finished content and items?

I really hope they address these issues.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 30 January 2013 - 11:42 PM.


#26 Scorpion

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:58 AM

All I wanted was knights stats and I would have been happy, but nooo they give us everything else instead :/.

#27 Millimidget

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostEon Lilu, on 30 January 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

noone is sure what to pick for ascended items and spend a few hundred ecto's on and crap loads of stuff to upgrade...
That's the whole point, to get you to blow a bunch of resources, and then deliver what you're actually looking for so you can go through the process of accumulating and throwing away another bunch of resources.

Balancing mitigation versus damage is tougher than balancing pure DPS increases, but frankly that just seems like a convenient excuse to cover up the above.

Edited by Millimidget, 31 January 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#28 lmaonade

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:49 AM

View PostEon Lilu, on 30 January 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

snip

that's what I mean, I don't agree that Healing Power is completely useless, because some people may need it, but at the same time you gotta respect that some people just don't find it useful or needed at all, people should build around what they need rather than what other people feel they need. But these forums are pretty ridiculous when it comes to what people always tell newbies to build >_>

#29 NuclearDonut

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:35 AM

This thread derailed so badly. On topic, I'm gonna go with ANet just forgetting or overlooking some stat combinations. I don't agree that it's some conspiracy to get you to grind for the same Ascended gear twice. If you want those stats so badly, just wait. The effort is not worth the chance of getting something you won't like.

#30 Arduin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:34 PM

Here you go:

Quote

We do plan on adding more stat combo to existing ascended item types as well as adding more stat combos to new types.

~Izzy @-'---


https://forum-en.gui...e/4#post1342141

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