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Greatsword Guardian DPS.. Is it any good?

greatsword dps good or bad

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#1 Kaedral

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:16 AM

Right so.. I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for a while now. I created all my 5 chars on day 1 (well day -3 to be exact I guess). Anyway, I digress.. I've been faithfully sticking to my guardian so far having leveled him up to level 80 and started gearing him towards what I want to be doing.. DPS.

So my question is quite straightforward. Can you do proper DPS as a guardian? This is in a PvE/instance type situation mostly. I really really want to be able to do it, preferably with the Greatsword but I don't want to drag my friends down by filling a less then optimal role.

That said I would love some tips and some does and don'ts.

Here's my current build: http://en.gw2skills....HJPLKGCcEYLwTAA
(The accessories don't match but that's what I was aiming for to get)

Anyways, any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

-Kaedral

#2 indure

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

Warriors are the damage king, BUT Guardians can output solid damage comparable to almost any other class while bringing unique party enhancements such as Wall of Reflection and party Stability. They are always a solid addition to a party and almost seen as mandatory for some of the harder dungeon content.

#3 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:50 AM

You can DPS just fine with a guardian.  People will tell you stupid stuff like HURR U GARUDIAN MUST B SUPPORT but the fact of the matter is that guardians have very high base damage.  Almost as high as warriors, in fact.  The problem is that this is not immediately obvious because your effective damage while soloing isn't as good.  Warriors get fury and high stacks of might and vulnerability.  They can get something like permanent fury, 15 stacks of might, and 10 stacks of vulnerability with a greatsword, while a guardian can only get 7-8 stacks of might and have no real way to stack appreciable amounts of vulnerability.  However, guardians spread their might boons to the entire party, while warriors keep it for themselves; that means that multiple guardians stacking can actually get more than multiple warriors, provided they  have some way of getting fury.

Guardian damage output was nerfed pretty severely in yesterday's patch, so Guardians can't claim to be the damage kings anymore, but their DPS is still at least comparable.  I think I've found a good spread to offset the loss.  I'll post it later maybe.

#4 lalangamena

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:59 AM

since yesterday you should ditch all the spirit weapons and the spirit weapons trait lines from your build.

valor line will increase your DPS better than zeal line....

try this build

http://gw2skills.net...yyklILbWuskZNiA

its pretty standard AH build with shouts and soldier runes for condition removal and high survivability without real reduction in DPS.

you can experiment with honor 20 empowering might vs two handed mastery, to see if you can stack on yourself mights.
if you're doing content when you get burned often, take radiance 10 inner fire for fury boon.

edit: the five points in virtues is to abuse renewed justice to stack mights again...

(also in the calculator, you can't put five 'berzerker jewels' in your gear only one so the stats you think you have are unrealistic)

Edited by lalangamena, 30 January 2013 - 08:01 AM.


#5 Minion

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

http://gw2skills.net...FJKyWkrIZRDCOgA

This is what I'd call the ultimate DPS build. You can comfortably run full berserker/rubies or knights with this and be able to depend on blocks, protection, dodges and altruistic healing. Unlike a warrior, you can dish out Might to your team: Empowering Might chucks Might out once a second, virtue of Justice offers burning, blind, AoE Might and 2x vulnerability, which recharges after each kill (so, focus), again your leap attack on greatsword also causes 2x vuln. In reality, you also gain Might from the minor toughness trait when blocking, so you have a very steady Might maintainment system on your own, not to mention the greatsword's every-third-swing gives might too. With a high enough precision, it will be more like 10-15 maintainable Might during a drawn out fight. 8 AoE might, more than likely, without even having to stop fighting to charge with staff.

On top of the massive damage comes resolve+aegis. Warrior, eat your heart out.

Edited by Minion, 30 January 2013 - 09:04 AM.


#6 Kaedral

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

Thank you all for the fast answers! I must say that I find Minion's a tad bit more intresting. It saddens me greatly to see the spirit weapons die off, had just got used to using them effectively. But on the bright side I've always wanted to try out the Guardian shouts. :)

GuanglaiKangyi, I read your post on this nerf yesterday. It was nothing I was even aware about before so it won't make much differance for me. But I'd be very sad to see the Guardians get so many damage nerfs so that they wouldn't really be vialbe any longer unless playing support.

I was also wondering, since Guardian dps (at least with the might build) requires a fare deal of crit. Would Rampager's (Precision (Main stat), Power & Condition dmg) or is Berserker's (Power (Main stat), Precision & Crit dmg) due to all the burn damage I've slowly grown to believe that the Rampager's set would be more benefical.

So all of you think I should ditch my Superior Rune of Smoldering for my Greatsword as well as my Superior Rune of Air for my Scepter? Also I notcied people seem to prefer the focus to the torch which is fine. Otherwise I was thinking of ditching the two and use a staff instead. Thoughts on this?

I was also curious about the armor. I figured Flame Legion armor would be swell due to the increased burn duration. As well as the increased power you get, especially consider I'd lose a good chunk of power from chaning my traits and skills around.

Well thank you everyone for your answers so far! All this input really helps me get a firmer grasp on this awesome profession!

-Kaedral

Edited by Kaedral, 30 January 2013 - 10:15 AM.


#7 heatrr

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostMinion, on 30 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

http://gw2skills.net...FJKyWkrIZRDCOgA

This is what I'd call the ultimate DPS build. You can comfortably run full berserker/rubies or knights with this and be able to depend on blocks, protection, dodges and altruistic healing. Unlike a warrior, you can dish out Might to your team: Empowering Might chucks Might out once a second, virtue of Justice offers burning, blind, AoE Might and 2x vulnerability, which recharges after each kill (so, focus), again your leap attack on greatsword also causes 2x vuln. In reality, you also gain Might from the minor toughness trait when blocking, so you have a very steady Might maintainment system on your own, not to mention the greatsword's every-third-swing gives might too. With a high enough precision, it will be more like 10-15 maintainable Might during a drawn out fight. 8 AoE might, more than likely, without even having to stop fighting to charge with staff.

On top of the massive damage comes resolve+aegis. Warrior, eat your heart out.

Its a good solid build, even in zerkers armor, but your numbers on the build page are seriously incorrect.

#8 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

View PostKaedral, on 30 January 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Thank you all for the fast answers! I must say that I find Minion's a tad bit more intresting. It saddens me greatly to see the spirit weapons die off, had just got used to using them effectively. But on the bright side I've always wanted to try out the Guardian shouts. :)

GuanglaiKangyi, I read your post on this nerf yesterday. It was nothing I was even aware about before so it won't make much differance for me. But I'd be very sad to see the Guardians get so many damage nerfs so that they wouldn't really be vialbe any longer unless playing support.

I was also wondering, since Guardian dps (at least with the might build) requires a fare deal of crit. Would Rampager's (Precision (Main stat), Power & Condition dmg) or is Berserker's (Power (Main stat), Precision & Crit dmg) due to all the burn damage I've slowly grown to believe that the Rampager's set would be more benefical.

So all of you think I should ditch my Superior Rune of Smoldering for my Greatsword as well as my Superior Rune of Air for my Scepter? Also I notcied people seem to prefer the focus to the torch which is fine. Otherwise I was thinking of ditching the two and use a staff instead. Thoughts on this?

I was also curious about the armor. I figured Flame Legion armor would be swell due to the increased burn duration. As well as the increased power you get, especially consider I'd lose a good chunk of power from chaning my traits and skills around.

Well thank you everyone for your answers so far! All this input really helps me get a firmer grasp on this awesome profession!

-Kaedral

Burn damage sucks really bad.  It's okay in the beginning since it scales well (your weapon stat is really low in the beginning compared to burn's base damage) but it becomes totally irrelevant pretty fast.  It is primarily for maintaining Fiery Wrath, which any guardian can do easily without having to spec for it.  You should just ignore the damage from burn altogether; I don't even factor it into my calculations since it's so small.  It's the same with warriors and the marginal amount of bleeds they put out.

#9 Minion

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:06 PM

1. Condition damage on a melee class is utter shit. That will never really change. Even on long-lasting enemies, because you whack enemies far more often and harder than any of your DoTs. Berserker/Knights is the way to go, no doubt. Always use one sigil of accuracy and the second is really irrelevant. You don't need to increase burn duration because it will be recharging as you kill (if you were to use the build I linked) and you should focus. In a 5-man team, the burn will be very consistent without the need of extension.

2. Staff outright sucks. It prevents you from moving for atleast a second and requires you to sit still for approx 3s to get the full burst of Might. It has no real defensive capabilities and the heal skill isn't going to help in any tight situations. Face it, the only reason you want Staff is for the Might. The Might which you can get elsewhere easier and more fluidly.

the wand/focus are really the greatest secondary set. Three blocks, AoE blind (which=vuln) a snare and Smite for domoges.

#10 Zhaitan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

Follow the thread linked below to know, understand pretty much everything about a guardian.

http://www.guildwars...er-w-great-dps/

I have used this as a guide and played the exact same build and some variants w/o any problem. I have multiple armor sets. For DPS setup, I have used Lyssa and for support I have gone with the runes that increase boon duration and healing power. 2x sup monk, 2x sup water and 2x major water or something else.

#11 Kaedral

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:16 PM

So, after doing a lot of fiddling.. This is what I came up with http://gw2skills.net...NyaWUMi4ExOiXEA

I'm not sure how well it'll hold up when it comes to surviving but I think it'd suit my needs better for DPS and also I feel good for trying to come up with something myself x)

The Focus thing sounds very smart now that I've settled into it so I've decided to change that. I also noticed that The Sigil of Minor Accuracy will gives LOADS of more crit then then Sigil of Superior Accuracy when fully stacked. Thoughts on that?

I also went for the simple divinity runes, not that I know if their the best or not. More input is very very welcome I just don't really feel that I want the Lyssa wants. Also thanks for directing me towards all of the written guides. Some very good reading, learnt some really useful stuff.

Thank you and keep on discussing! I want to try to craft something that I feel 100% happy with and I hope I can also help a little on the way! :)

-Kaedral

#12 nluck

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostKaedral, on 30 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

So, after doing a lot of fiddling.. This is what I came up with http://gw2skills.net...NyaWUMi4ExOiXEA

I'm not sure how well it'll hold up when it comes to surviving but I think it'd suit my needs better for DPS and also I feel good for trying to come up with something myself x)

The Focus thing sounds very smart now that I've settled into it so I've decided to change that. I also noticed that The Sigil of Minor Accuracy will gives LOADS of more crit then then Sigil of Superior Accuracy when fully stacked. Thoughts on that?

I also went for the simple divinity runes, not that I know if their the best or not. More input is very very welcome I just don't really feel that I want the Lyssa wants. Also thanks for directing me towards all of the written guides. Some very good reading, learnt some really useful stuff.

Thank you and keep on discussing! I want to try to craft something that I feel 100% happy with and I hope I can also help a little on the way! :)

-Kaedral

I have been running that particular spec interchanged with 20/25/0/20/5 for all PvE contents.

This was done in full Berserkers, and survivability isn't a problem at all with that spec in exploration modes such as Arah and CoE. It was slightly more difficult in 50+ fractals, I'd recommend you to swap 1-2 Berserker pieces out for Beryl equivalent. I believe both Empowering Might version of those specs have the highest potential group DPS increase out of all possible guardian specs.

#13 aluano

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:41 PM

So most guardians aren't spending points in zeal anymore? Why is that?

It gives a ton of power if you max it out, but it's still not worth it for all the power you get?

#14 TheKnox

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:24 AM

View Postaluano, on 30 January 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

So most guardians aren't spending points in zeal anymore? Why is that?

It gives a ton of power if you max it out, but it's still not worth it for all the power you get?
Most of the Zeal traits are either 1) terrible or 2) very specific to a certain setup (spirit weapons, greatswords).  The additional power is nice, but you can typically go into valor or honor for traits that don't suck and just grab some additional zerker gear to make up for the points you didn't get from the Zeal Line and actually end up with more damage output.

Edited by TheKnox, 31 January 2013 - 04:25 AM.


#15 aluano

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:35 AM

View PostTheKnox, on 31 January 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Most of the Zeal traits are either 1) terrible or 2) very specific to a certain setup (spirit weapons, greatswords).  The additional power is nice, but you can typically go into valor or honor for traits that don't suck and just grab some additional zerker gear to make up for the points you didn't get from the Zeal Line and actually end up with more damage output.

I'm using full knight set with ruby orbs, you reckon I could skip zeal and go into valor/honor instead?

(Using the build that minion posted atm)


EDIT: Another question, which sigil would you recommend me using? Using sigil of fire atm, but maybe I should go with 5% crit or 5% dmg?

Edited by aluano, 31 January 2013 - 07:09 AM.


#16 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:44 AM

View Postaluano, on 31 January 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

I'm using full knight set with ruby orbs, you reckon I could skip zeal and go into valor/honor instead?

(Using the build that minion posted atm)


EDIT: Another question, which sigil would you recommend me using? Using sigil of fire atm, but maybe I should go with 5% crit or 5% dmg?

You should go 20 into Zeal if you are using a greatsword or scepter as your primariy weapon.  While the +5% and +10% damage traits don't sound like that much, they actually add up quite a bit, much more so than stats do.  In general, the traits you want to be aware of are:

1) Empowering Might (for any build with decent crit rate)
2) Fiery Wrath
3) Radiant Power
4) Greatsword Power (for greatswords)
5) Scepter Power (for scepters)
6) Powerful Blades (for swords)
7) Writ of Persistence (for hammers, maces, staffs, and greatswords)
8) Two Handed Mastery (for staffs and greatswords)
9) Right Hand Strength (for 1h weapons)
10) Mace of Justice (for maces)

Obviously you can't get all of these at once, so it's up to you to figure out which of these traits you want to try to hit while keeping a level of survivability and utility you are comfortable with.  If you are just starting out, you may want to forgo a few of the stronger, higher-cost traits (particularly the ones in Radiance, since they give a very good damage bonus but have a high opportunity cost in terms of defense) and focus on getting what you can in line with defensive traits.  Valor is particularly nice for this, since it gives a nice boost to crit damage and gives access to Altruistic Healing, which is basically the ultimate self-healing trait, especially when coupled with Empowering Might in the Honor line.  However, once you get more comfortable with guardian you will find that you don't need AH.

To self-plug, check out the two different builds I have posted in this forum for an example of a comparison between the two extremes.

Edited by GuanglaiKangyi, 31 January 2013 - 07:44 AM.


#17 LaeliaMila

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

View PostKaedral, on 30 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

I also noticed that The Sigil of Minor Accuracy will gives LOADS of more crit then then Sigil of Superior Accuracy when fully stacked. Thoughts on that?

I think the build editor you used has mixed up the Minor Accuracy description with Sigil of Perception.  Minor Accuracy adds 1% crit chance (Major adds 3%, Superior 5%) while Perception builds up 25 stacks of precision, similar to Sigil of Bloodlust for power and Sigil of Corruption for condition damage.  (Maybe you knew that and were referring to perception in your post, but I thought new Guardians might be confused.)

#18 GuanglaiKangyi

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:19 PM

It used to be Minor Accuracy back in beta.  I haven't been in PvP in a while so I dunno if they changed it.

#19 Minion

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

Sigil of Perception at 25 charges should give you +11% crit chance. As a guardian, that's a better bet than Sigil of Accuracy, considering the likelihood of being downed as a guardian. is fairly low, unless you bad. And people that bad don't use sigils. Or exotic armour... Or the dodge button.





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