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#421 XPhiler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:21 AM

View PostResolve, on 11 February 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Literally all of those other examples don't have a time limit. They are "if you play the game whenever you want you get x" Dailies are "Log in every day to get a laurel. If you miss a day then too bad, you lost your chance"



No it isn't. Laurels are capped at 1 a day and 10 a month. Those other currencies can be obtained on your own terms.

Since a couple of you are so eager to defend the dailies maybe you would like to share why you enjoy them so much? What is so good about the current system? The only thing I can think of is that it gets the player base more active but like I said above, it's not really making them play any content but to just go and farm the same old events. And revive some people in one or two different areas. Hardly ideal.

If I dont log on monday how many WvW badges, Dungeon tokens or fractal relics do I get? Sure If I dont log monday I missed my laurel for the day but likewise I missed the dungeon tokens and the fractal relics I could earn. You're missing the fact what you're concerned about is simply time. You want the ability to grind your laurels just like you can grind your fractal relics or your dungeon tokens. The daily system just doesnt allow you to do that. It takes 25 days of playing (and completeing achievements) to get an ascended amulet. If you miss a day, if you miss a week or if you miss a month will not change anything, it will still require 25 days of playing to get that amulet. Just like it requires 105 events to get an exotic armor piece. Whether you grind all the events you can possibly do and finish off those 105 events in 3 days, or whether you play casually doing no more then 5 events a day which means you finish in 21 days time in the end it will still require you finish of 105 events. The only thing that changes is how much time from the moment you decide you want this gear piece until the moment you get it. What you are complaining about is the game isnt allow you to grind essentially.

#422 XPhiler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

View Postastromarmot, on 09 February 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Again, how does  a person who logs in 30 minutes a day for 7 days contribute more to the game than someone who lcan only log in for 8 hours on Saturday?  And the monthly has some pretty specific chit too...some people don't care for dungeons...or some don't like WvW...but that's ok it's only 10 laurels in any event and it's encouraging peeps to step outside of their norm to interact with actual parts of the game that might enhance the overall community...the daily rez and daily dodge do nothing of the sort...which is where the majority of this discussion is founded...

Various ways actually. This is an MMO as such you want ideally all people on all the time. The more people are play the more enjoyable the game is for everyone. The daily provides an insentive for people to log in daily contributing to a bigger population during weekdays.

A daily isnt just meant to have people log in every day, its also a means to get people to engage in different activities and try out things they might have perviously avoided. The daily res will push some people in going out of their way and help others. The daily dodge helps them learn to dodge at the last second which can be useful in some fights. I agree that these are currently trivial and even Anet acknowledged that. They specifically said that until they introduce the possiblity of selection they would avoid specific dailies. Its a necessary evil so to speak. Ressing 10 allies involves 0 difficulty other then finding those 10 allies to revive but at least can be finished in a few minutes. If you had a daily such as say completely the hexfoundy jumping puzzle could take someone hours to just find the jumping puzzle and hours to finish it. Personally I would rather have the hexfoundry as an achievement many times over the res one as it provides a lot more challenge no doubt but I acknowledge the fact Arenanet are right. It would a bad idea to send players to specific zones for specific challenges until such a time as they can skip such challenges. If a player has yet to visit the zone. If a player has yet to achieve the required level or if the task at hand provides too challenging it would be locking that player out or putting on them a much larger then intended time burden. It is not long now, just 15 more days and hopefully we'll start getting much more interesting achievements. Until then they could do a lot worst then res 10 allies.

#423 XPhiler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostProtoss, on 09 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:


Dailies initially being implemented as a tool that helps casuals from feeling like they are being left behind.


There are two ways you can look at it. A casual player who can only play a limited amount of time a day and the casual player who can only log a few days during the week. For the casual player who can only log a limited time a day its perfect. 30 - 45 mins and he gets the same reward as someone who can play 8hrs+ a day consistently. For the player who can only log in a few times a week this is still very casual friendly because there is a strict limit of how far behind they can fall. Compare that with say gold or karma. if a casual player can log in only during the weekend and for 2 hrs each day they'll get 2 laurels while the dedicated player gets 7.
The casual player will earn appox 8k karma ( based on 5 events per 30 mins for 4 hrs)
compared to the dedicated player who earns 224k karma (based on 5 events per 30mins for 56 hours)

ergo in terms of dailies the casual player earned 29% of what the dedicated player earned.
In terms of karma the casual player however only earned 0.03% of what the dedicated player earned.

Of course the whole game is casual friendly in that in both cases it matters little to the casual player who can still play and enjoy all the content as much as the dedicated player.

#424 raspberry jam

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 08 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Oh I dodge out of the red circles just fine. But sometimes you need to stay in them, stay in that range, in order to achieve your goals. Sometimes that attack animation for your skill requires an extra half second of you standing there, so you dodge a little later. Sometimes you have a chain of attacks coming from multiple directions and evading them all pre-emptively means removing yourself entirely from the fight.

Most of my dodge rolls are well before I get the evade message. BUT you only need 10 for the day!

Sorry, but the only way you can avoid attacks well before the evade message is to not be attacked in the first place, and that means your playstyle is cowardly and boring. My opinion.

And your opportunity cost argument relies on the baseline being completion every day. If you've never completed your daily every day, then your baseline is whatever your average completion rate is. If you go above that in order to get laurels, then you've increased your reward. If you stay the same, you lose nothing. And introducing the daily rewards as-is, considering how easy they are, is not going to reduce the number of dailies achieved so you're not taking a loss.

Your logic is flawed. You set your own arbitrary baseline thinking you're an authority on the matter, and that drives your whole argument. The fact of the matter is that the laurels are rewards for playing...not getting them is not a punishment for not playing.
But the baseline is there regardless of what it is. If you complete the daily 50% of days you play, it's 3.5 laurels per week, meaning that if you play 5 hours per session twice per week you're losing out on 2.5 laurels (since you will complete the daily on one of the days you play). That is the opportunity cost based on your performance.

It doesn't really matter what you think of my playstyle; I can likely do FotM quicker and more reliably than you and that's what counts.

Edited by raspberry jam, 11 February 2013 - 11:22 AM.


#425 Resolve

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

Eh, I don't think there is any point trying to explain it. It's all been said and it just flies over his head lol.

#426 escada_assassin

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:41 AM

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

If I dont log on monday how many WvW badges, Dungeon tokens or fractal relics do I get? Sure If I dont log monday I missed my laurel for the day but likewise I missed the dungeon tokens and the fractal relics I could earn. You're missing the fact what you're concerned about is simply time. You want the ability to grind your laurels just like you can grind your fractal relics or your dungeon tokens. The daily system just doesnt allow you to do that. It takes 25 days of playing (and completeing achievements) to get an ascended amulet. If you miss a day, if you miss a week or if you miss a month will not change anything, it will still require 25 days of playing to get that amulet. Just like it requires 105 events to get an exotic armor piece. Whether you grind all the events you can possibly do and finish off those 105 events in 3 days, or whether you play casually doing no more then 5 events a day which means you finish in 21 days time in the end it will still require you finish of 105 events. The only thing that changes is how much time from the moment you decide you want this gear piece until the moment you get it. What you are complaining about is the game isnt allow you to grind essentially.

Yeah, I could get all the karma needed for one piece of armor in 3 days. But let's see anyone getting all the laurels needed for an amulet in the same 3 days. The difference is that I can choose how much karma I can make / day, while laurels, no matter what - you can only get one / day. Just so you know, I don't care, since I'm not in a hurry to get 1 billion laurels or karma. I will get everything I want one step at a time.

#427 Volkon

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 11 February 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

But the baseline is there regardless of what it is. If you complete the daily 50% of days you play, it's 3.5 laurels per week, meaning that if you play 5 hours per session twice per week you're losing out on 2.5 laurels (since you will complete the daily on one of the days you play). That is the opportunity cost based on your performance.

It doesn't really matter what you think of my playstyle; I can likely do FotM quicker and more reliably than you and that's what counts.

This "opportunity cost" thing... what aspect of rewards in the game does that not apply to? People that log in more farm more materials, run more dungeons, get more badges in WvW, etc.

If you choose to log in every day and complete the requirements for the daily, +1 laurel. If you choose not to log in on a day or choose to not completely the daily, +0 laurel. It's a standardized, flat reward for a specific effort.

I didn't see these types of threads before they added laurels to the dailies... why is that? You still got mystic coins for the dailies if you chose to do them, and people have made some good coin selling them, or they're quite useful for assorted Forge recipes. Yet... no one complained. Why is that? I suspect that the reward wasn't as tempting to most people as the laurels are now. It "didn't affect you", so no one complained. Now laurels "affect you" because the rewards for them are quite nice.

If this was a real issue the complaints should have started at day 1 when dailies were introduced, not now when the rewards are interesting enough to make people notice.

#428 Resolve

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:


I didn't see these types of threads before they added laurels to the dailies... why is that? You still got mystic coins for the dailies if you chose to do them, and people have made some good coin selling them, or they're quite useful for assorted Forge recipes. Yet... no one complained. Why is that? I suspect that the reward wasn't as tempting to most people as the laurels are now. It "didn't affect you", so no one complained. Now laurels "affect you" because the rewards for them are quite nice.

If this was a real issue the complaints should have started at day 1 when dailies were introduced, not now when the rewards are interesting enough to make people notice.

Are you kidding? It's because it's how you get the ascended amulet.

#429 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Yet... no one complained. Why is that? I suspect that the reward wasn't as tempting to most people as the laurels are now. It "didn't affect you", so no one complained. Now laurels "affect you" because the rewards for them are quite nice.

1. The system is worse than it was before, and it seems to be permanent. Clearly, we still have the 4/6 change ahead, but they also mentioned much more specific dailies so that is also a cause for concern.
2. Previously, players simply got more of the currencies that could be obtained though normal play, now players are given an exclusive currency with exclusive rewards. The previous system, while also lacking, allowed players to still catch up (those that played for 8 hours during the weekend could still obtain comparable rewards to the folks that played 30 minutes a day), whereas the new system simply leaves certain groups of players behind.

Edited by Protoss, 11 February 2013 - 02:44 PM.


#430 XPhiler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

View Postescada_assassin, on 11 February 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yeah, I could get all the karma needed for one piece of armor in 3 days. But let's see anyone getting all the laurels needed for an amulet in the same 3 days. The difference is that I can choose how much karma I can make / day, while laurels, no matter what - you can only get one / day. Just so you know, I don't care, since I'm not in a hurry to get 1 billion laurels or karma. I will get everything I want one step at a time.

So If you really are in no hurry what difference does it truely make? Personally I would go so far as to think we need more such DR. Left right and center you see people grinding out stuff in a way that they end up hating just cause they're unable to deal with the fact that whatever they're trying to get is something thats supposed to take months or even years to get. Take this thread as an example. People claim they hate some of the achievements like healer and dodging. Yet some of the suggestions in this thread included reset the achievement once you complete it so it can be completed multiple times even by the same persons. I still think the core of the problem is players making the game about the reward rather then just seeing rewards for what they are, rewards for completing content. It should be about what you enjoy doing and then using that to get something you like yet its been twisted to how to get the shiny you want in the least amount of time which is the real problem.

This post illustrates that perfectly in my opinion. Here is something that cannot be rushed and its attacked at no end just because now it has meaningful rewards attached to it. Before we had the same kind of dailies with less variety and not one single complained could be heard about it anywhere.

View PostResolve, on 11 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Are you kidding? It's because it's how you get the ascended amulet.

technically you can also craft yourself an ascended amulet but it will probably take more then 25 days to get all the mats required

http://wiki.guildwar...dant_(ascended)

#431 XPhiler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostProtoss, on 11 February 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

1. The system is worse than it was before, and it seems to be permanent. Clearly, we still have the 4/6 change ahead, but they also mentioned much more specific dailies so that is also a cause for concern.
2. Previously, players simply got more of the currencies that could be obtained though normal play, now players are given an exclusive currency with exclusive rewards. The previous system, while also lacking, allowed players to still catch up (those that played for 8 hours during the weekend could still obtain comparable rewards to the folks that played 30 minutes a day), whereas the new system simply leaves certain groups of players behind.

what is it exactly that you want cause I am confused. Do you want less meaningful stuff that you complete with nearly no effort such as i dont know walk 250 steps? Do you want on demand content like I dont know complete JP XYZ? Do you want to just get rewarded, like you logged in so here is your 1 laurel?

First of all its not a race, you cannot fall behind because there is nothing to fall behind to. If someone has an ascended amulet and you do not what actual change will that do to you? how are you behind them exactly?

And not just that but actually its quite the opposite. The old dailies where what you got was coins, gold and xp a casual player had no hope of "catching up" with a "dedicated" player. Its not like casual players are the only one who get to play 8 hrs during the weekend. chances are very likely that the player who can play everyday will still be able to play as much as you do during the weekend if not more which is even more likely if you ask me. So no there would be no "catching up" at all, there would be an ever wideing gap if anything. With the new system its actually the opposite. If you find 30 - 45 mins a day you'll be on par with the player who can consistantly play 8hrs a day (in terms of laurel)

#432 raspberry jam

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:03 PM

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

This "opportunity cost" thing... what aspect of rewards in the game does that not apply to? People that log in more farm more materials, run more dungeons, get more badges in WvW, etc.

If you choose to log in every day and complete the requirements for the daily, +1 laurel. If you choose not to log in on a day or choose to not completely the daily, +0 laurel. It's a standardized, flat reward for a specific effort.

I didn't see these types of threads before they added laurels to the dailies... why is that? You still got mystic coins for the dailies if you chose to do them, and people have made some good coin selling them, or they're quite useful for assorted Forge recipes. Yet... no one complained. Why is that? I suspect that the reward wasn't as tempting to most people as the laurels are now. It "didn't affect you", so no one complained. Now laurels "affect you" because the rewards for them are quite nice.

If this was a real issue the complaints should have started at day 1 when dailies were introduced, not now when the rewards are interesting enough to make people notice.
Yes, normally the reward scales with the input, but the laurels require to you specifically log in every day. Maybe you don't want to waste so much time on the game, but maybe you also want to play a couple of hours every time you log in because, I don't know, maybe you like the game. But you have other obligations so you don't want to waste hours and hours. So you set a limit on six hour per week. You can spend all six on getting dailies every day of the week, or you can focus on logging on two days per week and playing until you feel happy.

Why do you want to reward a player for a pattern of playing that makes him unhappy? Why not for a pattern that makes him happy and that fits in with his life?

Yes, it's about the rewards. Of course.

#433 Gli

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:04 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Various ways actually. This is an MMO as such you want ideally all people on all the time. The more people are play the more enjoyable the game is for everyone. The daily provides an insentive for people to log in daily contributing to a bigger population during weekdays.
I can assure you, whenever I chose to log in just to do a quick daily, I'm absolutely not contributing to anyone else's enjoyment of the game. I usually even set my status to invisible so no one can address me.

#434 XPhiler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostGli, on 11 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

I can assure you, whenever I chose to log in just to do a quick daily, I'm absolutely not contributing to anyone else's enjoyment of the game. I usually even set my status to invisible so no one can address me.

Thats your personal choice but I am sure indirectly you still do. You need to take part in 5 events which means you're indirectly helping those players players participating in those 5 events who might also have other wise trouble soloing those events. You're adding to the player count in the area means events spawn faster so you're indirectly helping people find more events to participate in. If a player gets downed you'll probably help revive him if there is the healer achievement going . You're also scaling that event up making the event more interesting. You're adding to the player count in the area making the world seem more alive. Dont underestimate your contribution to the game even if you have 0 interest in contributing.

#435 Gli

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Thats your personal choice but I am sure indirectly you still do. You need to take part in 5 events which means you're indirectly helping those players players participating in those 5 events who might also have other wise trouble soloing those events. You're adding to the player count in the area means events spawn faster so you're indirectly helping people find more events to participate in. If a player gets downed you'll probably help revive him if there is the healer achievement going . You're also scaling that event up making the event more interesting. You're adding to the player count in the area making the world seem more alive. Dont underestimate your contribution to the game even if you have 0 interest in contributing.
Actually, if someone is already doing an event, I only take a few token actions so I qualify for a medal, and move on. When I just log on to do my dailies quickly, I'm not going to waste time.

#436 El Duderino

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

View PostResolve, on 11 February 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

...and back to the classic 'you don't need it lol' defense.

I just don't understand why you are even arguing this(well I do know). Do you like dailies or something? I just don't see any possible benefit to them. Monthly and even weekly are better because they give you more breathing room.

Hell, at this point I'd be happy if the daily was actually doing a quest or event and not just mindless tasks that don't even get people doing activies, just farming the usual things. "Oh I've gotta go revive some people and collect some wood, this is fun and engaging"

So, are you upset that it is a pointless mechanic or that you are being "left behind" by not doing it.

I agree with the former. It is a fairly pointless mechanic. There are definitely some advantages, but overall it does very little for the community.

However, I strongly disagree with the latter. There is no reason anyone should be so butthurt by the idea of a daily that makes them feel that they need to log in and do it.

You. Don't. Need. To. Do. It. Every. Day.

As someone already mentioned, you are being left behind on so many things already. You can't possibly play enough to keep up with every reward this game has to offer for every play style.

Furthermore, there is no need to make every reward easy to obtain.

Those are my only arguments in this entire thread:

1. You are being left behind in so many ways; laurels and daily achievements are no different. You don't NEED them. You just WANT them.

2. Based on the first premise that you don't NEED laurels and you only WANT laurels; the designers shouldn't make them any easier or harder to get based on the time spent for dailies. If you WANT them - then get them. If you don't like HOW you get them, either CHANGE the way you play or realize that you don't WANT them enough to get them the intended way.

Like I said, I do dailies when my own travels gets me close to completion. I certainly don't sweat over the days I don't manage to achieve the daily requirements.

Edited by Pandora Misfit, 11 February 2013 - 04:06 PM.


#437 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

And not just that but actually its quite the opposite. The old dailies where what you got was coins, gold and xp a casual player had no hope of "catching up" with a "dedicated" player. Its not like casual players are the only one who get to play 8 hrs during the weekend. chances are very likely that the player who can play everyday will still be able to play as much as you do during the weekend if not more which is even more likely if you ask me. So no there would be no "catching up" at all, there would be an ever wideing gap if anything. With the new system its actually the opposite. If you find 30 - 45 mins a day you'll be on par with the player who can consistantly play 8hrs a day (in terms of laurel)

No.
Set costs and unlimited quantities of items are the properties that make the laurels-sytem good. The problem is that not only can karma/gold achieve the EXACT same qualities, given the ease of obtaining gold/karma compared to laurels (as I said before, it's been 14 days since the new daily and I am at 0 laurels, while my gold and karma are not at the exact same amount that they were before the introduction of laurels) those two currencies are a MUCH better currency of choice when it comes to providing non-vanity items to the masses.
The only thing that laurels have over karma/gold is that they weren't in the game 14 days ago and people need to grind them NOW. Great, more grind.



As for dailies proving an incentive to log in, the folks around me are logging in less since the change because the activities reward a much more specific playstyle, and that's just not our playstyle. So, while we'd LOVE the rewards, there's no way in hell that we're going to play the game in a way that we don't want to play it, JUST to get them.

#438 Doctor Overlord

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:53 PM

Just posting my opinion rather than the current discussion, I have mixed feeling toward the changes.   I don't mind the game offering more variety in dailies or a different reward system.   My dislike is due to the new dailies that seem to encourage artificial, rather than natural, gameplay.

For example, players are deliberately letting NPCs die to get the healer daily.   Or the dodge daily where some players (myself included) who are able to successfully dodge but find they need to alter their timing in order to get the Evade proc.   Or need to seek out specific mobs where the Evade proc is more consistent and deliberately not kill them just to get the daily.    It really does not feel like this the normal way to play the game.

If ArenaNet intends for players to go out of their way and do things they would not normally do while playing to finish the dailies, then that's fine.  But I always hear dailies being touted by ArenaNet as things you can naturally finish during the normal course of play.

Some people seem to do this but it is not the case for everyone.  The only times I have ever finished dailies was by altering how I play and deliberately going after them. I don't have an issue with this since this is no different than going after other specific rewards but in that case dailies shouldn't be touted as rewarding people for just playing normally.

Personally, I think daily requirements that encourage unnatural behavior (healer and dodge) should simply be dropped.   There are more than enough other options to provide variety with dailies choices that engage in normal gameplay (gathering, mob kills etc)

Edited by Doctor Overlord, 11 February 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#439 El Duderino

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostProtoss, on 11 February 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

The only thing that laurels have over karma/gold is that they weren't in the game 14 days ago and people need to grind them NOW. Great, more grind.

If you think the daily requirements are a grind, then you don't know what the definition of grind is.

#440 Volkon

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostResolve, on 11 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Are you kidding? It's because it's how you get the ascended amulet.

Exactly. Now that there's something people see as "worth it" rewards from the dailies they want full entitlement to those rewards... whether or not they do the dailies. There in lies the rub.

#441 Volkon

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 11 February 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Yes, normally the reward scales with the input, but the laurels require to you specifically log in every day. Maybe you don't want to waste so much time on the game, but maybe you also want to play a couple of hours every time you log in because, I don't know, maybe you like the game. But you have other obligations so you don't want to waste hours and hours. So you set a limit on six hour per week. You can spend all six on getting dailies every day of the week, or you can focus on logging on two days per week and playing until you feel happy.

Why do you want to reward a player for a pattern of playing that makes him unhappy? Why not for a pattern that makes him happy and that fits in with his life?

Yes, it's about the rewards. Of course.

If you can only log on two days a week you're rewarded for those two days a week (if, of course, you do the daily on those days you log on). If you play casually enough (in the good sense of the word) that you're happy logging on two days a week for those three hours per day... see, there's the odd part. There's already nothing in the game that requires these ascended items. They're added as a slightly better bit o' stats and serve as a time-sink for those that want some form of progression between exotics and legendary gear. Someone that can log in for limited days should be expected to be a bit slower at accomplishing the time-sink requirements of ascended gear. They're not meant to be a quickie, like exotics. They're not meant to take an eon either, like legendary weapons. If you play every day, ascended gear through laurels are expected to take about three weeks worth of days of play, if focused on (including the monthly). If you choose to spread those three weeks of days across three months, that's your choice, but the time investment will remain the same number of days played. Most importantly, your game play won't be negatively impacted by not having a necklace you already don't have. You'll get a marginal stat boost when you do get it, but until then you're as viable at everything as you are now.

#442 Gli

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Exactly. Now that there's something people see as "worth it" rewards from the dailies they want full entitlement to those rewards... whether or not they do the dailies. There in lies the rub.

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

If you can only log on two days a week you're rewarded for those two days a week (if, of course, you do the daily on those days you log on). If you play casually enough (in the good sense of the word) that you're happy logging on two days a week for those three hours per day... see, there's the odd part. There's already nothing in the game that requires these ascended items. They're added as a slightly better bit o' stats and serve as a time-sink for those that want some form of progression between exotics and legendary gear. Someone that can log in for limited days should be expected to be a bit slower at accomplishing the time-sink requirements of ascended gear. They're not meant to be a quickie, like exotics. They're not meant to take an eon either, like legendary weapons. If you play every day, ascended gear through laurels are expected to take about three weeks worth of days of play, if focused on (including the monthly). If you choose to spread those three weeks of days across three months, that's your choice, but the time investment will remain the same number of days played. Most importantly, your game play won't be negatively impacted by not having a necklace you already don't have. You'll get a marginal stat boost when you do get it, but until then you're as viable at everything as you are now.
You're not telling anyone anything they don't know. Reciting how the system works completely avoids the fact that the system is absolute rubbish. Getting best-in-slot equipment exclusively through a method that gives the best reward for time spent if you rush some uninspired and pedestrian tasks half an hour per day, that's so moronic, I can't believe anyone would defend it.

#443 Volkon

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:49 PM

View PostGli, on 11 February 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

You're not telling anyone anything they don't know. Reciting how the system works completely avoids the fact that the system is absolute rubbish. Getting best-in-slot equipment exclusively through a method that gives the best reward for time spent if you rush some uninspired and pedestrian tasks half an hour per day, that's so moronic, I can't believe anyone would defend it.

Really? Name me one system that doesn't give you "best-in-slot" (like that means something in GW2 :huh: ) that isn't ultimately based on time spent? Remember WoW? How much time did you have to invest, week after week, raid after raid, solely for the chance that your BIS piece might drop, and if it did you had to pray to the RNG gods that not only would you get the roll but often that the raid leader would decide you're worthy of the piece in the first place?

It's all based on time and often effort. This is one of the easiest ways out there to get "best-in-slot" (no matter how marginally better) in any MMO. Log in, do your daily, get a laurel towards it. Finish your monthly, get 10 more. They're giving you a chance to get an amulet and a couple rings simply for doing things you would mostly normally do during game play. Why is that?

Remember that Manifesto thing that so many people claim they trashed? Yeah, accessibility. Ascended gear will be accessible to everyone, by design. Play how you want... right now Fractals and dailies, soon other methods, and you'll never be forced into any gated content for "best-in-slot" gear. That includes people that log in a couple hours a day, or only a couple days a week. Everyone will have access. Yes, a little time needs to be invested, but that's pretty much it. They always said the game would be accessible and viola, it is. You appear to not like that concept, but if you paid attention you should have realized that this is exactly what was expected.

#444 El Duderino

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Really? Name me one system that doesn't give you "best-in-slot" (like that means something in GW2 :huh: ) that isn't ultimately based on time spent? Remember WoW? How much time did you have to invest, week after week, raid after raid, solely for the chance that your BIS piece might drop, and if it did you had to pray to the RNG gods that not only would you get the roll but often that the raid leader would decide you're worthy of the piece in the first place?

It's all based on time and often effort. This is one of the easiest ways out there to get "best-in-slot" (no matter how marginally better) in any MMO. Log in, do your daily, get a laurel towards it. Finish your monthly, get 10 more. They're giving you a chance to get an amulet and a couple rings simply for doing things you would mostly normally do during game play. Why is that?

Remember that Manifesto thing that so many people claim they trashed? Yeah, accessibility. Ascended gear will be accessible to everyone, by design. Play how you want... right now Fractals and dailies, soon other methods, and you'll never be forced into any gated content for "best-in-slot" gear. That includes people that log in a couple hours a day, or only a couple days a week. Everyone will have access. Yes, a little time needs to be invested, but that's pretty much it. They always said the game would be accessible and viola, it is. You appear to not like that concept, but if you paid attention you should have realized that this is exactly what was expected.

Sweet Jesus! QFT!

Accessibility != Must Have it Now

Accessibility != I Need to Keep Up.

Accessibility = ease of accessing the item. Which is pretty damn easy in this case.

#445 Gli

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostVolkon, on 11 February 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Really? Name me one system that doesn't give you "best-in-slot" (like that means something in GW2 :huh: ) that isn't ultimately based on time spent? Remember WoW? How much time did you have to invest, week after week, raid after raid, solely for the chance that your BIS piece might drop, and if it did you had to pray to the RNG gods that not only would you get the roll but often that the raid leader would decide you're worthy of the piece in the first place?

It's all based on time and often effort. This is one of the easiest ways out there to get "best-in-slot" (no matter how marginally better) in any MMO. Log in, do your daily, get a laurel towards it. Finish your monthly, get 10 more. They're giving you a chance to get an amulet and a couple rings simply for doing things you would mostly normally do during game play. Why is that?

Remember that Manifesto thing that so many people claim they trashed? Yeah, accessibility. Ascended gear will be accessible to everyone, by design. Play how you want... right now Fractals and dailies, soon other methods, and you'll never be forced into any gated content for "best-in-slot" gear. That includes people that log in a couple hours a day, or only a couple days a week. Everyone will have access. Yes, a little time needs to be invested, but that's pretty much it. They always said the game would be accessible and viola, it is. You appear to not like that concept, but if you paid attention you should have realized that this is exactly what was expected.
You haven't understood my post you quoted there at all. Read it again.

I'm actually critical because they're giving away great rewards for practically doing nothing at all. They're giving it away for half-assing some insipid tasks that are too trivial to even consider content. They're making level 80 best-in-slot items and unique prestige items available for doing nothing more involved than running around in a random low-level area for 15-20 minutes, doing nothing that's challenging, nothing that's interesting, nothing that's worth the time spent except for the reward. And of course you don't have to do that, that's not the issue. The issue is, people are doing it, because the items are desirable. That's why people are complaining about the new dailies: Incredibly desirable items, and there's no decent way of achieving them, except waiting for your dailies to complete spontaneously while you play, or suffering through the drudgery of consciously going through the motions of doing stupid, useless, boring tasks.

Waiting or suffering, what a wonderful dilemma.

#446 infisio

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain so much about being able to get "incredibly desirable items" for completing an easy task.  Dang.....

#447 Silvercat18

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:24 PM

As someone into wvw i dont have problems with the combat oriented ones, but all too often i have to go out of my way to mine things i dont want and then i have to fiddle about with crafting them into things i wont use and that result in a monetary loss.

Aquatic slayer is just a pain too, but its the crafting side that really disrupts my gameplay, especially where times and queues are important to being a server commander.I am basically told "stop playing and go do this for 40 minutes"....every day.

#448 Lordkrall

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:28 PM

View PostSilvercat18, on 11 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

As someone into wvw i dont have problems with the combat oriented ones, but all too often i have to go out of my way to mine things i dont want and then i have to fiddle about with crafting them into things i wont use and that result in a monetary loss.

Aquatic slayer is just a pain too, but its the crafting side that really disrupts my gameplay, especially where times and queues are important to being a server commander.I am basically told "stop playing and go do this for 40 minutes"....every day.

Aye, I am sure you will lose loads of money for making ingots from ore ^^

#449 El Duderino

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:31 PM

View PostGli, on 11 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

That's why people are complaining about the new dailies: Incredibly desirable items, and there's no decent way of achieving them, except waiting for your dailies to complete spontaneously while you play, or suffering through the drudgery of consciously going through the motions of doing stupid, useless, boring tasks.

So, you are upset because in order to achieve INCREDIBLY DESIREABLE ITEMS, you either have to wait WHILE YOU PLAY THE GAME or your have to SUFFER THROUGH 30 - 40 MINUTES OF SPECIFIC TASKS?

Do you suggest that they should just make the items grow a pair of legs and walk right up to you when you log in instead? This way you don't actually have to play the game?

Some people are never satisfied. Those people should take a long walk off a short pier.

Edited by El Duderino, 11 February 2013 - 09:32 PM.


#450 Bryant Again

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I dont know I just find it wierd that many times people teleport away a couple of seconds after I get there. my theory is because many other players just ignored them and this might actually change that trend.

Maybe it provides them an excuse to go and do something new, or clear out their inventory? It definitely gives them an excuse to head out and repair. I dunno, I just don't see much of a basis to argue that their decision is derived from a bad experience.

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Dungeon, fractals, WvW, Group events, boss fights ... they will all give you plenty of chance to revive some downed players right?

A chance, sure. But I shouldn't be benefiting from us losing.

View PostXPhiler, on 11 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

What you are complaining about is the game isnt allow you to grind essentially.


Players should be allowed to spend as much time with the game as they want. When the game stops rewarding them it can deter them as much as it can attempt to get them playing the game.

Moreover, people still haven't told me why these things have to be in the form of dailies. I brought up the question in a post on the previous page: "Is there harm in making laurel progress independent of the player, and not of the restrictions brought up through dailies?"

Why not just have each of the dailies be a progress bar that resets when you fill it up, and doesn't reset on the next day? Fill up enough bars huzzah, laurel. For people who want to "grind", they can get what they want. People who want to look forward to something nice through playing normally get what they want.

View PostEl Duderino, on 11 February 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Some people are never satisfied. Those people should take a long walk off a short pier.

These people should kill themselves? Quaint...




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