Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
* * - - - 4 votes

Daily achievements change


  • Please log in to reply
805 replies to this topic

#571 Volkon

Volkon

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2934 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on a borderland in a sea of clones.
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

This to me says that the system is less accessible. If it's there simply to waste the players' time, why would we consider this to be as accessible as it can be? Especially, as I argued above, if I wish for a system in which power is never optional.

How is it less accessible? Anyone can do it, not just, for example, end game raiders. If you choose to do so you have easy means to go about it. That's accessibility. There's a difference between something being accessible and something being free.

#572 Bryant Again

Bryant Again

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 895 posts
  • Location:Michigan
  • Profession:Warrior

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 13 February 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Says you. Tell me WHY!

If this update's aimed at the 'average' player, and some 'average' players can only earn about 8-10 laurels a month, that's not really helping them out, is it? When it comes down to that, the player may very well focus less on 'playing the game' and more on 'playing the dailies'.

With a more 'time spent' focus, a player may become more inclined to 'grind it out', this is true, but the 'weekend warrior' playing normally is justly rewarded. Is that player's concern with how fast others earn rewards, or how fast he himself can earn them? Because as is, I can see the schedule inferred by 'dailies' being just as much a deterrent as it can be encouraging.


View PostEl Duderino, on 13 February 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Thanks mom. You gonna spank me and send me to bed now too?

It's not too out of the question to ask you to stop insulting people, is it?

#573 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3228 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

View PostVolkon, on 13 February 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

How is it less accessible? Anyone can do it, not just, for example, end game raiders. If you choose to do so you have easy means to go about it. That's accessibility. There's a difference between something being accessible and something being free.

We had a game with no ascended crap. The game already had too many tiers that served no purpose other than being time/gold-sinks.
A new tier of power is added. A tier that only servers to be a time-sink. Those items have only one way of being obtained, a way that is much more restrictive than the ways though which one obtained previous max tier gear were. A new way of obtaining them is added and even with that way, that way to obtain them is still more restrictive than the ways though which previously max tiers were obtained.

I absolutely agree that laurels make ascended gear more accessible. The problem is that ascended gear in itself makes max gear less accessible and the fact that laurels make it more accessible isn't able to negate the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible.
I am sorry, but because of the ascended system, "accessibility" simply can not be the theme behind gear in GW2.

#574 Martiniam1

Martiniam1

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 104 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:19 PM

I don't mind the new system. I can play enough to get the daily 4-5 times a week and finish the monthly. For us already 80 it does seem like a grind to get 35 laurels, but for a new player just starting the game it's probably great. They can do the daily easily while leveling up and once they get to 80 they probably have close to the required amount for the amulet.

#575 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1962 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:26 PM

I started a new toon shortly after the daily changes, and it's made me wonder about something.  Is it possible that some of the angst over the new dailies is due to people already being at max level?

At first I ground the dodge daily because it seemed so finicky, but all of the other dailies I hit pretty early in my play time each day simply by leveling my toon across the open world.  I recently decided not to do the dodge daily at the start, and found I got it done while playing as well, so I'm not even grinding that out.  Only one in three dodges or so ever gives me credit, but I dodge often enough that in 90 minute play session (not terribly long) the daily is completed.  I know people say you don't have to dodge in the open world, but that hasn't been my experience (because I've been playing clothies?), so I'm a regular dodger.

At any rate, I'm looking at my laurels and karma stacking up day by day, and realizing that by the time I hit 80 I should have enough laurels to pick up my ascended amulet.  That's a pretty sweet piece of gear to get the day I ding 80!  If I do a few dungeons along the way I might even be close to snagging an ascended ring.

As this was occurring to me, I also suddenly realized that people who hit 80 long ago and have been working on their full BiS gear are looking at the new system and it can easily look more like a chore grinding out dailies for the next couple of months to fill out their ascended trinkets.

I thought it was interesting how seeing it from two different perspectives made a difference to me.

(Ha!  Ninjaed by Martiniam. :D )

View PostMartiniam1, on 13 February 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

[What I said, only more succinct]

Edited by Kymeric, 13 February 2013 - 06:26 PM.


#576 Volkon

Volkon

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2934 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on a borderland in a sea of clones.
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:40 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

We had a game with no ascended crap. The game already had too many tiers that served no purpose other than being time/gold-sinks.
A new tier of power is added. A tier that only servers to be a time-sink. Those items have only one way of being obtained, a way that is much more restrictive than the ways though which one obtained previous max tier gear were. A new way of obtaining them is added and even with that way, that way to obtain them is still more restrictive than the ways though which previously max tiers were obtained.

I absolutely agree that laurels make ascended gear more accessible. The problem is that ascended gear in itself makes max gear less accessible and the fact that laurels make it more accessible isn't able to negate the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible.
I am sorry, but because of the ascended system, "accessibility" simply can not be the theme behind gear in GW2.

OK, now forgive me for saying this, but this is a complete load of crap. How exactly is the exotic tier inaccessible? Exotics are simply the most accessible high end tier in any game ever practically. Hell, you can buy them off the AH. You get a couple pieces effectively for free if you've saved your karma leveling. You can craft it, find it, trade badges for it... C'mon, please... at least base your argument in something resembling facts.

#577 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2246 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:00 PM

View PostBryant Again, on 13 February 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

If this update's aimed at the 'average' player, and some 'average' players can only earn about 8-10 laurels a month, that's not really helping them out, is it? When it comes down to that, the player may very well focus less on 'playing the game' and more on 'playing the dailies'.

With a more 'time spent' focus, a player may become more inclined to 'grind it out', this is true, but the 'weekend warrior' playing normally is justly rewarded. Is that player's concern with how fast others earn rewards, or how fast he himself can earn them? Because as is, I can see the schedule inferred by 'dailies' being just as much a deterrent as it can be encouraging.

If the reward in question was unreachable to begin with, because it required doing fractals runs, then yes, it has become more accessible. And, if the player is that casual that they can ONLY get 8-10 laurels a month, then it would be fine for them to CASUALLY get the reward in 3 months, rather then not having access at all.

Again, let me ask why it isn't helping out "average" players if it makes something that was previously inaccessible now accessible for their style of play?

And, again, I realize that it may take a bit longer to complete the daily than it did previously, but it is pretty much agreed that most of the daily achievement can be done through normal play, so the additional time spent to finish the other requirements isn't even the agreed upon 30 minutes worth of completion, but perhaps a much shorter time.

The only reason we are talking about this is because players REALLY WANT to have the rewards given by laurels. If that is the case, then why is it so bad to create this system that makes it REALLY EASY to get laurels?

And, why do people who only can play on the weekends feel that they are falling behind just in this particular instance, when by default, they cannot ever hope to do anything but fall behind because they don't put in as much time a daily player.

It just does not make logical sense to say that Player A spends 20 hours in the game and Player B spends 10 hours in the game, but they should both be rewarded equally, which is exactly what your argument boils down to.

Sure, there may be people that are logging in daily just to do their daily achievements, but let's focus on the majority of the players. It basically boils down to the fact that people who have more time to play, have the opportunity to get further in regards to rewards, and there is nothing to stop that short of giving everything to everybody which should not even be an option.

Furthermore, anyone that wants to base their arguments around all of their idealistic changes to Guild Wars may be better off creating a new thread about all of the changes they need to make, because it makes it much more difficult to continue this discussion when we need to consider someone else's entire makeover of Guild Wars in our own arguments.

Ok, I think I typed that whole thing without any rude or unnecessary remarks. I apologize for being a *. I'll try to be more respectful moving forward.

Edited by El Duderino, 13 February 2013 - 07:02 PM.


#578 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3228 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

View PostKymeric, on 13 February 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Only one in three dodges or so ever gives me credit, but I dodge often enough that in 90 minute play session (not terribly long) the daily is completed.

I am always doing dailies as part of my levelling up.
Before the change, I was able to finish the daily in under 30 minutes on a good day. After the change, I am nowhere near finishing it in that timeframe. I think that dailies should be a 30 min affair: demanding that players play for some 90 minutes removes the point of using dailies as a counter-grind tool.



View PostVolkon, on 13 February 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

OK, now forgive me for saying this, but this is a complete load of crap. How exactly is the exotic tier inaccessible? Exotics are simply the most accessible high end tier in any game ever practically. Hell, you can buy them off the AH. You get a couple pieces effectively for free if you've saved your karma leveling. You can craft it, find it, trade badges for it... C'mon, please... at least base your argument in something resembling facts.

C'mon, please - at least base your replies on shit I am actually saying rather than simply making stuff up and then responding to it.

#579 Volkon

Volkon

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2934 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on a borderland in a sea of clones.
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:



C'mon, please - at least base your replies on shit I am actually saying rather than simply making stuff up and then responding to it.

This is your quote... "The problem is that ascended gear in itself makes max gear less accessible and the fact that laurels make it more accessible isn't able to negate the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible."

#580 Bryant Again

Bryant Again

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 895 posts
  • Location:Michigan
  • Profession:Warrior

Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:55 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 13 February 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

If the reward in question was unreachable to begin with, because it required doing fractals runs, then yes, it has become more accessible. And, if the player is that casual that they can ONLY get 8-10 laurels a month, then it would be fine for them to CASUALLY get the reward in 3 months, rather then not having access at all.

Again, let me ask why it isn't helping out "average" players if it makes something that was previously inaccessible now accessible for their style of play?

Didn't say it wasn't, in fact I agree with that direction wholeheartedly. It's just that dailies require a schedule that's a bit too specific, a gaming schedule that not every player can attend to. I'll explain more in this next portion.

View PostEl Duderino, on 13 February 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

And, why do people who only can play on the weekends feel that they are falling behind just in this particular instance, when by default, they cannot ever hope to do anything but fall behind because they don't put in as much time a daily player.

It just does not make logical sense to say that Player A spends 20 hours in the game and Player B spends 10 hours in the game, but they should both be rewarded equally, which is exactly what your argument boils down to.

I'm not sure that's what I meant. Let's say player A and B both spend the same amount of time, in this case let's say both play for 10 hours a week. If A's gaming schedule is more open and spread out to fit the routine outlined by dailies, he'll earn more laurels. Player B cannot play everyday or has random blocks of gametime, potentially earning far less laurels, but still puts in the same amount of time, doing the same things as A. It doesn't even have to be only on the weekends, it could happen with just random and unknown amounts of available free time to play.

There'd need to be at least something that helps players that can't fill in their daily 'quota' every day. It's good that they're looking into providing players more dailies to choose from, but perhaps after 'playstyles' they could work on 'playtime'. Maybe even a starting point as barebones as giving the players options to do 'weeklies' (even if I can't say that word with straight face).

View PostEl Duderino, on 13 February 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Ok, I think I typed that whole thing without any rude or unnecessary remarks. I apologize for being a *. I'll try to be more respectful moving forward.

The rest of your post was great but this section alone warrants a 'like'.

Edited by Bryant Again, 13 February 2013 - 07:56 PM.


#581 El Duderino

El Duderino

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2246 posts
  • Location:Drowning in a White Russian listening to Creedence
  • Profession:Mesmer
  • Guild Tag:[DuDE]
  • Server:Blackgate

Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:21 PM

View PostBryant Again, on 13 February 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Didn't say it wasn't, in fact I agree with that direction wholeheartedly. It's just that dailies require a schedule that's a bit too specific, a gaming schedule that not every player can attend to. I'll explain more in this next portion.

Good stuff. So we can agree that the direction of making ascended items available for casual players is a good idea, provided that they give something back which shouldn't be too time consuming or difficult.

View PostBryant Again, on 13 February 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure that's what I meant. Let's say player A and B both spend the same amount of time, in this case let's say both play for 10 hours a week. If A's gaming schedule is more open and spread out to fit the routine outlined by dailies, he'll earn more laurels. Player B cannot play everyday or has random blocks of gametime, potentially earning far less laurels, but still puts in the same amount of time, doing the same things as A. It doesn't even have to be only on the weekends, it could happen with just random and unknown amounts of available free time to play.

There'd need to be at least something that helps players that can't fill in their daily 'quota' every day. It's good that they're looking into providing players more dailies to choose from, but perhaps after 'playstyles' they could work on 'playtime'. Maybe even a starting point as barebones as giving the players options to do 'weeklies' (even if I can't say that word with straight face).

I suppose I can agree with this. ;)

My ultimate concern is that because the reward is so great, it should still take X amount of days to achieve regardless of how fast you can do something..

Ultimately, I think that the trick is balancing the ability to get the rewards for casual players, yet not making it extremely easy for hardcore players to get buckets-full of laurels just because they have more time to play in the game.

Also, there comes a point where if a person does try to make up for the dailies in one day, it will become a grind-fest and that is something that I think we can all agree is counter-productive as well.

I don't think a change to dailies is the answer here, but something like weeklies could certainly work. I do expect ANet to come up with a solution.

Weeklies (same inability to hold a straight face) could perhaps take care of this problem.

View PostBryant Again, on 13 February 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

The rest of your post was great but this section alone warrants a 'like'.

You're making me blush! :P

Edited by El Duderino, 13 February 2013 - 08:23 PM.


#582 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3228 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostVolkon, on 13 February 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

This is your quote... "The problem is that ascended gear in itself makes max gear less accessible and the fact that laurels make it more accessible isn't able to negate the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible."

You're right, I could have added "instead" as my last word in that sentence.
Nonetheless, I think if you read the WHOLE sentence (even without it ending with "instead"), or better yet, if you read the whole POST, it should evoke a completely different point than the one painted by the words highlighted in blue.

#583 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1962 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I am always doing dailies as part of my levelling up.
Before the change, I was able to finish the daily in under 30 minutes on a good day. After the change, I am nowhere near finishing it in that timeframe. I think that dailies should be a 30 min affair: demanding that players play for some 90 minutes removes the point of using dailies as a counter-grind tool.

Just to note, I'm not sure if it took 90 minutes for the dodge credit to be complete, that's just how long I played, and I had my daily done by the end.  This was the first time I didn't actively seek the dodge, so I'll watch to see how long it usually takes.

Thirty minutes would be a good rule of thumb though, if daily's primary purpose is to act like rested xp and other bonus rewards for casuals.

The dodge daily is definitely the one that I'd remove if I was in control of it.  It's just too finicky and prone to causing a grind mentality.  The other would be healer for similar reasons, though it's not nearly as difficult to get done during normal gameplay.

#584 Volkon

Volkon

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2934 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on a borderland in a sea of clones.
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

You're right, I could have added "instead" as my last word in that sentence.
Nonetheless, I think if you read the WHOLE sentence (even without it ending with "instead"), or better yet, if you read the whole POST, it should evoke a completely different point than the one painted by the words highlighted in blue.

Well, no, not really. You're claiming that exotics should somehow be more accessible. How can that even be possible? You can have full exotics in your inventory waiting for you to hit 80 now as it is.

#585 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1962 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

Unfortunately, this discussion brings me back to a general sense that it is the "hardcore" gamer that is making such a mess of MMORPGs.  Developers have a terrible time making a game that can satisfy players who make the game a full-time job.  There's just no way to provide that kind of content stream without introducing grind.  The more grind you have, the less fun it gets for the moderate to casual player.

Of course, I'm completely aware that hardcore players tend to feel that the casuals are the ones who are ruining MMORPGs. :D

I suppose the answer is for developers to figure out their target audience and try to please the casual to moderate or moderate to hardcore, and stop trying to make a game that satisfies both because it inevitably leads them into tying themselves into mechanic knots.

Whether a game could survive financially only catering to one side or the other would be the big question.

#586 Volkon

Volkon

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2934 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on a borderland in a sea of clones.
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostKymeric, on 13 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Just to note, I'm not sure if it took 90 minutes for the dodge credit to be complete, that's just how long I played, and I had my daily done by the end.  This was the first time I didn't actively seek the dodge, so I'll watch to see how long it usually takes.

Thirty minutes would be a good rule of thumb though, if daily's primary purpose is to act like rested xp and other bonus rewards for casuals.

The dodge daily is definitely the one that I'd remove if I was in control of it.  It's just too finicky and prone to causing a grind mentality.  The other would be healer for similar reasons, though it's not nearly as difficult to get done during normal gameplay.

Do you do any WvW by chance? If you do, here's a hint on this... flip a supply camp. If there are yaks present you can get three events right away. You can also get four veterans in a single camp. Between guards shooting at you, the guild rep with his slow hammer bash, etc. it's easy to get plenty of dodges in. You may, just may, find people to rez... if not and you're in a BG check the water in the center. You can get plenty of water kills as well as find quaggan to rez. Or, for water kills, the rivers off to the sides have salmon in them which count. Flipping two camps should get you at least 60% done on the daily, quickly. There are also plenty of gather nodes about the camps as well.

#587 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1962 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:01 PM

View PostVolkon, on 13 February 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Do you do any WvW by chance? If you do, here's a hint on this... flip a supply camp.

Sure.  One of the things people have been bringing up, though, is that dailies shouldn't be sending people to specific areas to get them done.  Making people choose between flipping a supply camp, hitting the Asura reactor, or doing a dungeon because those get the dailies done fast is making people frustrated with dailies.

Note that so far I haven't really had to search out something like flipping a supply camp, because the dailies have been happening for me just doing my ordinary levelling.

The dodge and healer (rez) dailies, however, have had a negative impact on enough of the community that I would consider removing or modifying them.

#588 xycury

xycury

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM

Dodger is too easy to get I don't see the problem with it.

Go to a Harpy hunter, let them fire 3 arrows, wait till they aim up and fire their first repeating shot, dodge forward twice from 900 range and you'll get 35% done.

Repeat 3 times.

I think dodging should be toned down though, too many dodges, maybe 10 should be enough to max it out.

I think visiting the Laurel merchant is silly for a daily and honestly takes me the longest since I need to run back to town, I don't WP for nothing... and doing Mist>LA can be just as  inconvenient.

#589 Loperdos

Loperdos

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 544 posts
  • Profession:Thief
  • Guild Tag:[THF]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostKymeric, on 13 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

~snip

The dodge and healer (rez) dailies, however, have had a negative impact on enough of the community that I would consider removing or modifying them.

I would certainly agree with this, especially the dodge daily.  The issue that I've run across is that from time to time when you evade, if you happen to evade away from the mob too early and you are out of reach rather than "evading" the attack (IE, the mob's attack hits during that short invuln period that you get during the evade animation) it will not count as an evade.  This seems more like a broken mechanic than anything else, which can (on occasion) make the dodge daily frustrating.  Am I saying that there is no easy way to complete the dodge daily, or that it is excessively difficult? Not at all, as I play on a thief mainly, I find it to be one of the easiest dailies to complete.  But the fact that the mechanic is, as Kymeric put it, "finicky" makes it frustrating to attempt this particular daily and can make it take on the grind mentality ("I HAVE to seek out a specific encounter in order for this to be super easy, rather than just finishing it in my normal course of play").

Edited by Loperdos, 13 February 2013 - 09:10 PM.


#590 tfckmk988

tfckmk988

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 84 posts
  • Location:VA
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Server:Kaineng

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

We had a game with no ascended crap. The game already had too many tiers that served no purpose other than being time/gold-sinks.
A new tier of power is added. A tier that only servers to be a time-sink. Those items have only one way of being obtained, a way that is much more restrictive than the ways though which one obtained previous max tier gear were. A new way of obtaining them is added and even with that way, that way to obtain them is still more restrictive than the ways though which previously max tiers were obtained.

I absolutely agree that laurels make ascended gear more accessible. The problem is that ascended gear in itself makes max gear less accessible and the fact that laurels make it more accessible isn't able to negate the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible.
I am sorry, but because of the ascended system, "accessibility" simply can not be the theme behind gear in GW2.

I think it is foolish to think that they are done putting in systems to get ascended gear give the dev's some time by already having more than 1 way to get it to me its already better than WoW where you had to complete any raid multiple times to get your classes drop then as it was a raid get lucky and win the roll between the other members of that class and do the same for the other 5 or 6 other pieces of armor plus weapons

#591 The_Blades

The_Blades

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 331 posts
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

the problem i see with some people complaints here is that they are working specifically for the daily.

Try to play the game naturally and the daily will happen (except the water kills and some that require you to think about it - crafting for isntance)

If you go on playing and look at your bars an hour or so before time out you will see that you're probably almost done..

Some people do the daily then go "finally, now i can play" this is the wrong way to do it imo.

#592 Kymeric

Kymeric

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1962 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

View Postxycury, on 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Dodger is too easy to get I don't see the problem with it.

Go to a Harpy hunter....

That's the problem right there.  Out of all the dailies, dodge is most likely to send you looking for a specific mob or situation in order to get it done.  It becomes a chore, rather than a reward for something you're doing just playing the game.

There are plenty of ways to streamline the dodge.  The Giant that attacks Nageling is a great one, for example, because his telegraph for the stomp is crazy obvious and there seems to be a large window for getting credit.  I've found I can dodge pretty early in the animation, have completed my dodge well before his foot comes down and the dust blast happens, and still get credit.

Now, I should probably say that the first time I ever fought the giant I got downed repeatedly because I couldn't seem to get the dodge right.  My recent attempt at it, however, it had apparently clicked because I could reliably do it every time he stomped.

I also found that the Sons of Svanir around the dome in the north of Wayfarer drop that ice spike and it's pretty easy to time the dodge for when it finally drops.

Then there are also profession specific abilities.  Some professions have handy ways of entering a state that gives them evade credit whenever someone attacks them during that window of time.

Other things, however, are completely counter-intuitive.  My first day of trying to get the dodge daily, I thought I could use Moa because of their wind-up breath attack.  Turns out, you have to stand in front of a Moa a ridiculously long time after they start their wind-up, flapping telegraph before you can dodge it, and then the breath attack actually has a pretty small window of dodgeability before it hits you.  This seems to be true of some other mob breath attacks as well.

It's just clunky, which makes people feel they have to go find specific mobs in order to "get it done".

I take out the trash and wash the dishes to "get it done".  I don't really want to feel that way in a video game.

Edited by Kymeric, 13 February 2013 - 09:23 PM.


#593 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3228 posts

Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:41 PM

View PostKymeric, on 13 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

The dodge daily is definitely the one that I'd remove if I was in control of it.  It's just too finicky and prone to causing a grind mentality.  The other would be healer for similar reasons, though it's not nearly as difficult to get done during normal gameplay.

Honestly, I think that the DE-one, vet-one and healer-one are among the most problematic ones in the game currently (maybe also the aquatic one). Quite simply because not all areas in the game are built to provide each and every player in the game with the opportunity to complete them.
I think that those are way to specific and would need to be looked at first.



View PostVolkon, on 13 February 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Well, no, not really. You're claiming that exotics should somehow be more accessible. How can that even be possible? You can have full exotics in your inventory waiting for you to hit 80 now as it is.

To quote myself:

Quote

... the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible instead.

I am saying that because of the ascended gear, max tier gear (which means ascended gear) is currently less accessible compared to keeping max tier gear at exotics and making those exotics even more accessible.
And given that, I'd say that "accessibility" isn't the (primary) gameplan behind gear in GW2. It clearly plays a role, but when the devs introduce a NEW tier of gear that is harder to obtain than the current level of gear, then I am not going to scream "Woo-hoo accessibility!"

I mean, does the structure of the sentence now show that I am COMPARING two scenarios?

#594 Volkon

Volkon

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2934 posts
  • Location:Somewhere on a borderland in a sea of clones.
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:47 AM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:


To quote myself:


I am saying that because of the ascended gear, max tier gear (which means ascended gear) is currently less accessible compared to keeping max tier gear at exotics and making those exotics even more accessible.
And given that, I'd say that "accessibility" isn't the (primary) gameplan behind gear in GW2. It clearly plays a role, but when the devs introduce a NEW tier of gear that is harder to obtain than the current level of gear, then I am not going to scream "Woo-hoo accessibility!"

I mean, does the structure of the sentence now show that I am COMPARING two scenarios?

You've completely missed the whole point behind ascended sadly. It's a time sink for those that want to put in the time for a slightly better tier of gear. It's not hard at all to get, just takes time. Exotics are pretty much instantly acquired. Legendary weapons take quite some time. Ascended was added for the time gap between, taking an apparent  3 or so weeks of days played for the amulets. They're a little better in stats but not enough to be 'required'.

People talk about the ascended tier like it's some form of WoW-like logarithmic power increase. It's not. It's marginal enough to entice people that want the enticement, yet not enough of a boost to be necessary.

Plus, they're easily accessible to anyone willing to put in the time. Please stop ignoring the time factor, it's a primary factor here.

Edited by Volkon, 14 February 2013 - 04:48 AM.


#595 Trei

Trei

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2929 posts
  • Server:Jade Quarry

Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:00 AM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Honestly, I think that the DE-one, vet-one and healer-one are among the most problematic ones in the game currently (maybe also the aquatic one). Quite simply because not all areas in the game are built to provide each and every player in the game with the opportunity to complete them.
I think that those are way to specific and would need to be looked at first...
Why "each" player?
All three could be shared and done by multiple players.

Just yesterday I was wandering around diessa and bumped into a pair of random players killing a vet minotaur.
"daily?" "yeah"

And the three of us proceeded to run around the place completing DEs we came across while hunting vets, shortly joined later by another bunch of players we met doing a meta chain.

I did the same thing in every other zone I happened to play in each day the past week, timberline, gendarran, queensdale, maelstrom...

It doesn't matter where.

Oh and I missed a few days worth of laurels last week because I started on the crafting daily and ended up crafting more and more and forgot the rest.
So what? I'll get them another day.

Edited by Trei, 14 February 2013 - 07:07 AM.


#596 zwei2stein

zwei2stein

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1012 posts
  • Location:Yurop
  • Guild Tag:[RA]
  • Server:Ring of Fire

Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

View PostVolkon, on 14 February 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

People talk about the ascended tier like it's some form of WoW-like logarithmic power increase. It's not. It's marginal enough to entice people that want the enticement, yet not enough of a boost to be necessary.

It is 10% over Exotics on slot by slot comparsion. That is not really marginal. Amulets specifically have third largest stat budget right after chest armor and 2h weapons and when current ascended/exotic mix is taken into account, they are 2nd most stat contributing item. 10% on that one is

Ill grant you that with full equipment of exotics vs. available ascended mixed gearscore is 259 vs. 262, but there will be more slots covered eventually and difference will grow to full 10%.

#597 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5370 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:59 AM

View Postzwei2stein, on 14 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

It is 10% over Exotics on slot by slot comparsion. That is not really marginal. Amulets specifically have third largest stat budget right after chest armor and 2h weapons and when current ascended/exotic mix is taken into account, they are 2nd most stat contributing item. 10% on that one is

Ill grant you that with full equipment of exotics vs. available ascended mixed gearscore is 259 vs. 262, but there will be more slots covered eventually and difference will grow to full 10%.

And where in the game would you REQUIRE those extra 10% stats?

#598 xtbx

xtbx

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Guild Tag:[NR]
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:11 AM

if I get it right you all are discussing here that it's still hard for casual players to get top gear right?

mhmm ...

but who sad that casual players should have access to top gear at all in first place?
it's like in real life - if you want something you have to do something to get it, nothing is free

#599 escada_assassin

escada_assassin

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 170 posts
  • Location:Romania
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

In my case, I don't need anything Ascended, since those are mosty useful in FotM. But rather than paying 2-4g for an exotic ring / amulet, I prefer doing my EASY dailies and get one in exchange for my laurels. Any good changes with the new dailies? Yeah, one very good thing - the rewards that came up with the new daily system. Now I can just save all my cash that I initially intended to spend on buying dyes, amulets, rings and whatever else. It will take longer, but I will get all those things simply for participating in events, ressign people here and there, gathering nodes etc (some of those activities generate cash anyway). So what's not to like? What's not good about the new daily? The fact that I have to dodge or res people? That was part of the game anyway. Feeling forced to dodge or res peope? Then don't do it. Wait 2 more weeks and you'll be able to choose which daily you're gonna do or not. But there's nothing to argue about it : the new daily system is great, even if you look at the rewards only.

View Postxtbx, on 14 February 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

if I get it right you all are discussing here that it's still hard for casual players to get top gear right?

mhmm ...

but who sad that casual players should have access to top gear at all in first place?
it's like in real life - if you want something you have to do something to get it, nothing is free

Who said this is real life? If you wanna buy a 3 million $ car, go do it. This is a game. And from what I knew and what they said, it's more casual oriented. Why shouldn't I have access to high tier gear? Why should only you have access to that? Why are you so special and how much cash more than me did you pay for the same game?

#600 XPhiler

XPhiler

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1826 posts

Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

View PostProtoss, on 13 February 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

You didn't exactly have a "system of exotics" before the addition of ascended gear. We had an expansive system of gear that served absolutely no purpose other than to get in the way of getting max gear. The whole point of GW2's gear system before ascended gear was to expand on the grind and ascended gear just added the grind. So, "accessibility" isn't exactly the word I'd use to describe the GW2 gear system.
But if "accessibility" is the word of the day, I'd argue that simply making the gear in the game available through more options is the way to go, rather than adding a whole new set of gear, massively limiting how one gets it and then SLOWLY expanding the acquisition process.

As for individual players, I already acknowledged that certain players have it easier to do the daily now. And I am glad for you - when looking at dailies as a tool that gives people more options, that's what a change should do. The problem is that this change came with a cost - there are certain areas in the game (or even better, certain areas at certain times) that simply do not allow you to complete the daily. And that's the problem here: the goal here isn't to prevent you from completing the daily, the goal is to expand the daily so that it allows YOU and those of us that currently aren't allowed to do the daily, to complete it.

I asked several times now and you never cared to explain which areas you feel you just cant complete the daily in. I havent played everywhere so you might be right however if you care to share the area I promise I will go and try my daily there and if i finish it I will even share step by step what I did. So far I had no problem doing the daily in any zone including a brand new zone I started




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users