805 replies to this topic

[escada_assassin]

XPhiler, on 14 February 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I asked several times now and you never cared to explain which areas you feel you just cant complete the daily in. I havent played everywhere so you might be right however if you care to share the area I promise I will go and try my daily there and if i finish it I will even share step by step what I did. So far I had no problem doing the daily in any zone including a brand new zone I started

I don't know about the variety kills in Orr. XD Everything's undead there.

[XPhiler]

Resolve, on 13 February 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'm sure there's a lot of players who consider themselves casual but aren't. The point was that casual players won't be getting the same out of this system as hardcore players.

I dont understand how you come to this conclusion. Some players played the game for over 1200 hours. Other players say they have yet to reach 100 hours. Do you honestly feel that out of all the different game types (dynamic events, dungeons, wvw, fractals, sPvP, whatever) The new dailies will be where the biggest gap lies between such 2 players? cause unless I am missing something its exactly the opposite. The hardcore player who has put in over 1000 hours will leave the casual player who only was able to pay 100 hours in the dust in everything apart from the new dailies. The dailies are the most casual friendly system in the game. Take ascended gear for example, thats gear designed to require 1 month of time approxamtely per item to get. When implemented in systems like FoTM where everyone is free to play it as much as they want to ensure you keep up with the 1 month requirement you need to make obscene requriments. IF we remove range from the equation it takes approxametely 60 fractal runs to get a single ring. I am also assuming you didnt cheat and did every single level in sequence. Now think about the type of casual player who you're thinking off and if you're saying he will be left behind in dailies this player really doesnt have much time to play since 30 mins a day would be enough to get a daily done if you wanted to. How easy would it be for such a player to do 3 subsequent fractals just to get to the next level or to get a pristine relic?  I am sorry but with all due respect I personally believe you're wrong. For the level of casual player you're talking about the daily is the only shot they have at ascended gear. Fractals would be way too demanding for such a player as it requires way too much time to organize and do from start to finish (3 fractals at a time) while on the other hand for the hardcore player who can spend 8 hrs doing fractals straight s/he can probably easily do 9 runs if not more per day.  If s/he can consistantly keep that day after day s/he can burn through those 60 fractals in 2 weeks tops while with the dailies no matter how much s/he is able to play they still need to at the very least 25 days.

[xtbx]

escada_assassin, on 14 February 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Who said this is real life? If you wanna buy a 3 million $ car, go do it. This is a game. And from what I knew and what they said, it's more casual oriented. Why shouldn't I have access to high tier gear? Why should only you have access to that? Why are you so special and how much cash more than me did you pay for the same game?

exactly, we both paid the same ... so why should you be rewarded more for less effort then me (or anyone else)?

I have no problem with ppl runing with legendaries even though I'm not gonna put that amount of effort/money to get one ... it's my choice
so if someone is not going to produce enough effort to get ascended gear then he just wont have it ... it's that simple

[The_Blades]

escada_assassin, on 14 February 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I don't know about the variety kills in Orr. XD Everything's undead there.

I dont know if you are aware of this: Anet wants to "revive" the lower tier areas. I personally only go to orr to get oricalchum and omnomberries, i couldnt care less about wasting my time farming events ad ifinitum. I have more fun playing on lower areas, there are some good events out there to play with friends (cow training anyone?)

so yeah, you (or anyone that doesnt like being forced) are being forced to move out of orr probably.

Edited by The_Blades, 14 February 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Ritualist]

xtbx, on 14 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

exactly, we both paid the same ... so why should you be rewarded more for less effort then me (or anyone else)?

I have no problem with ppl runing with legendaries even though I'm not gonna put that amount of effort/money to get one ... it's my choice
so if someone is not going to produce enough effort to get ascended gear then he just wont have it ... it's that simple

Power vs. vanity in GW games.
Look it up.

[The_Blades]

xtbx, on 14 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

exactly, we both paid the same ... so why should you be rewarded more for less effort then me (or anyone else)?

I have no problem with ppl runing with legendaries even though I'm not gonna put that amount of effort/money to get one ... it's my choice
so if someone is not going to produce enough effort to get ascended gear then he just wont have it ... it's that simple

Butthurt 101 right here. so you think you're special... you're not mate, anet decided that anyone who takes the time to do the daily deserved 1 laurel, big deal. Who are you to say otherwise? are you the game owner or the company main shareholder? guess not.

Edited by The_Blades, 14 February 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[XPhiler]

Gli, on 13 February 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I'm not going to do a point-by-point reply, not just because it would be a huge undertaking, but also because I agree with much of it.

As you've figured out, my issue is just with the exclusiveness of the new rewards, and some people's insistence that the daily tasks in and of themselves are worth pursuing. I don't think they are, and were never meant to be. They used to be a means to make some additional progress money-wise, and later karma-wise, for people not invested in more elaborate gameplay.

As such, people preferring more elaborate gameplay could ignore them and not feel they missed out on anything they weren't getting through other means anyway. Sometimes they might even complete them spontaneously, and that was fun.

Now though, through the addition of exclusive rewards, all of that has completely changed. And I feel it hasn't been in a good way, for reasons I explained, ad nauseam, all over this thread. I'm sure you read them.

Another thing: I feel new content should be created in such a way that it injects the game with more appeal, so people keep playing. It certainly shouldn't be lessening the appeal, which is what this change accomplished for some people. People like to talk about NEEDS and WANTS. I believe that a game needs WANTS to keep people coming back. Games like GW2 provide a lot of things for people to set their sights on as WANTS. For some people, those WANTS are certain pieces of equipment, minipets, tonics, or what-have-you. One thing that irks me is the sickeningly patronizing way in which some people feel the need to belittle others who have such 'materialistic' WANTS, and the unwillingness to consider such WANTS just as worthy as their own WANTS. What does all of that have to do with appeal? New WANTS with only a single, uninvolved, time-gated way to go after them frustrate some people. Apparently, that's proper cause to be asked to "take a long walk off a short pier", or to be told you have a "tiny brain".

I agree with you on nearly everything. The only thing is I do think dailies have their place and I am sure people enjoy them. I would certainly not like to focus exclusively on them for example but if in the morning I get 30 mins time to play the game, I will not do what I usually do cause its just not enough time (explore, talk to npcs, figure out where event chains start and wait for the chain to start and play it till the end.. thats requires at least an hour) In such case, persuiting the daily now thats a bit varied is a good option for me.  I even try to make the most of it like finding a different mob to practice the dodge just to learn its pattern and timing. And the healing gave me a better understanding on the hotspots of various zones.  Again not saying its awesome content, it is not far from it but if you dont fight it, it can have a little allure as well.

I agree that we sometimes abuse the word wants. At the end of the day we all enjoy getting something out of even fun gameplay that goes beyond of the enjoyment you get through playing. you're right.

The game is still evolving and at quite a fast pace. We had major additions and changes, Tournaments, FoTM, the new Dailies, Orr Redesign. This month we'll be getting guild missions and hopefully more interesting dailies. Next month should have some major WvW changes. There is aslo the living story system that while it started a bit slow I like the concept. There is more they can do of course but I think they're doing a good job to ensure people will have reason to keep playing. Thats not something thats limited to wants only I think, keeping things fresh is also very important.

[xtbx]

The_Blades, on 14 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Butthurt 101 right here. so you think you're special... you're not mate, anet decided that anyone who takes the time to do the daily deserved 1 laurel, big deal. Who are you to say otherwise? are you the game owner or the company main shareholder? guess not.

you obviously missed my point - I'm not arguing against dailys, I'm arguing against ppl who think that everything should be free ...

[XPhiler]

El Duderino, on 13 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

The reason for this is because when I said that it is important for a game to have rewards for hardcore players, people thought it was a stupid idea.

That was why I got into this mess to begin with: the fact that people, like you, likened the daily challenge to some sort of epic grind.

It isn't.

The rewards are clearly very good. If you think it is a grind to get these rewards, then you are basically saying that you don't want to go out of your way to get rewarded for anything - instead it should be handed to you on a silver platter simply for playing your own style - regardless of what style that is.

That, simply, is a wrong way to look at a game. It makes it pointless for anyone who wants to put more time and effort into the game to "get ahead". And, let's face it, that is a big draw to any end game - to have the best of everything to put yourself ahead of others because of your accomplishments.

If you take that out of an MMO, the MMO dies. Because, it suddenly becomes uninteresting to play when ANYONE can get ANYTHING merely by playing the game however they damn please.

So, yes, if you think otherwise, I think you need to seriously look at yourself and figure out why you are so deserving of something for doing nothing.

To be fair grind is a bit of a tricky thing. Its easy that a particular game play mechanic will be considered a grind for some and not a grind for others. It mainly depends on the player mind set. Lets take the dodging daily as an example. You can approach that as a total bore you need to get out of the way to get the laurel you're after. Even though it will take 2 mintues max it will feel like a grindy 2 minutes if you approach it with that mindset. On the other hand I like to think of Gw2 as a themepark that plays like a sandbox and make my own fun and its quite possible to do even with something as trivial as the dodging. I keep it interesting by trying the dodge on a different kind of mob each time. Work out the tells and timing of a new mob each time.

[The_Blades]

Its not free, since when 1 month of daily loggin and having to play the game (for those who feel forced) is being free?

Is it hard? no. Are the people who force feed themselves the daily task having a huge amount of fun? probably not, and then again, maybe some are.

For those of us who happen to be playing it is a nice addition, no one should be mad because the guy next door who does less is also getting something. is he harming you or your gameplay in any way by getting rewarded with ascended amulets? i dont think so.

Edited by The_Blades, 14 February 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[escada_assassin]

The_Blades, on 14 February 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

I dont know if you are aware of this: Anet wants to "revive" the lower tier areas. I personally only go to orr to get oricalchum and omnomberries, i couldnt care less about wasting my time farming events ad ifinitum. I have more fun playing on lower areas, there are some good events out there to play with friends (cow training anyone?)

so yeah, you (or anyone that doesnt like being forced) are being forced to move out of orr probably.

You probably can't read, but that's another thing. The quy who I responded to asked people to name one area where you can't get your dailies done. Orr would be one, if you're after getting the daily variety kills (and I didn't say anything about me loving Orr so much or that I only play in Orr). If you would have read even more of my posts on this thread, you'd read (if you know how to) that I have nothing against the daily : before or after the update. Next time, read and only after that post.

[XPhiler]

Protoss, on 13 February 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

This to me says that the system is less accessible. If it's there simply to waste the players' time, why would we consider this to be as accessible as it can be? Especially, as I argued above, if I wish for a system in which power is never optional.

Thing is it isnt there to waste people time at all. Ascended gear unlike other games is not a key to open a locked door its a reward for people who feel unless its more powerful its not a reward. Everything is left up to you. If you want to pursuit it and how you pursuit it. If you dont like it or the way you get it you're free to let it be, if you aquiring it is something you like then you're free to do that. The problem lies is in the zone where you like the gear but dont like the way to get it. Right now your option is to either do what you dont like or wait until the way you like is finally implemented. The choice is yours.

[XPhiler]

Protoss, on 13 February 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

We had a game with no ascended crap. The game already had too many tiers that served no purpose other than being time/gold-sinks.
A new tier of power is added. A tier that only servers to be a time-sink. Those items have only one way of being obtained, a way that is much more restrictive than the ways though which one obtained previous max tier gear were. A new way of obtaining them is added and even with that way, that way to obtain them is still more restrictive than the ways though which previously max tiers were obtained.

I absolutely agree that laurels make ascended gear more accessible. The problem is that ascended gear in itself makes max gear less accessible and the fact that laurels make it more accessible isn't able to negate the fact that the new max tier of power is less accessible than it could have been if the previous tier of power would have simply been made more accessible.
I am sorry, but because of the ascended system, "accessibility" simply can not be the theme behind gear in GW2.

This is a pretty simple situation. Some people like tiers some people dont. Some people like to work hard to get better gear, some people dont. Gw2 is designed to serve both camps. I am not even going so far as exotic, a rare set is extremely easy to get. It will cost you less then 1g which at max level you can easily make in 1 hr of game time. Everyone is free to stop there.Just cause a tier is there it doesnt mean you have to have it. If you dont find it enjoyable working towards getting an exotic set or an ascended set then simply dont do it, it will not make a difference. You said you enjoy mostly going around killing stuff and if anything doing that with a rare set instead of exotic will make such an activity more pleasurable because even using a rare set the game is simply too easy. Not just that but after a while of playing the game the way you enjoy you'll realise you can afford a full exotic set. Later on if Anet do in fact make ascended gear aquireable in every way like exotic gear is aquireable you'll find you can afford that too. You'll get your full ascended gear without all the strife you're making yourself go through to get something you neither want or need.

Edited by XPhiler, 14 February 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[XPhiler]

xycury, on 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Dodger is too easy to get I don't see the problem with it.

Go to a Harpy hunter, let them fire 3 arrows, wait till they aim up and fire their first repeating shot, dodge forward twice from 900 range and you'll get 35% done.

Repeat 3 times.

I think dodging should be toned down though, too many dodges, maybe 10 should be enough to max it out.

I think visiting the Laurel merchant is silly for a daily and honestly takes me the longest since I need to run back to town, I don't WP for nothing... and doing Mist>LA can be just as  inconvenient.

If you want the easiest dodge I know of the best option I came across I think is the bandit warriors that have those flurry swirly attacks. the attack goes on for a few seconds and if you dodge into it which you have a very long time to do no split second timing you'll get 3 - 5 dodges at once.

Edited by XPhiler, 14 February 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Menehune]

XPhiler, on 14 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

...
The game is still evolving and at quite a fast pace. We had major additions and changes, Tournaments, FoTM, the new Dailies, Orr Redesign. This month we'll be getting guild missions and hopefully more interesting dailies. Next month should have some major WvW changes. There is aslo the living story system that while it started a bit slow I like the concept. There is more they can do of course but I think they're doing a good job to ensure people will have reason to keep playing. Thats not something thats limited to wants only I think, keeping things fresh is also very important.

This made me start thinking (Ow! my brain hurts. ). Assuming no major issues pop up in their internal testing and we get all that in the update, I wonder what impact they will have on the dailies. What if a guild mission requires killing a platoon of vets to get to the back of a cave to throw one switch of 3 to start a meta event. One guild mission could possibly get you most if not the whole daily. Changes to WvW could also bring new achievements with them which may be part of the new daily rotation. Also about being able to choose the achievements - 4/6 was given as an example. It's not cast in concrete nor is it, as some might contend, a promise. It could be, and it sounds like, that 4/6 is really just the beginning or worst case. Wouldn't it be so much nicer to have like 5/8 or higher? Could very well be. Living story? How about assist injured refugees instead of reviving lifeless ones, visit all sites of events like the 2 steam vent areas, or use story specific environmental items like the signs x times? So many possibilites for ArenaNet to cater for more player types.

[XPhiler]

zwei2stein, on 14 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

It is 10% over Exotics on slot by slot comparsion. That is not really marginal. Amulets specifically have third largest stat budget right after chest armor and 2h weapons and when current ascended/exotic mix is taken into account, they are 2nd most stat contributing item. 10% on that one is

Ill grant you that with full equipment of exotics vs. available ascended mixed gearscore is 259 vs. 262, but there will be more slots covered eventually and difference will grow to full 10%.

Just for claffication purposes everything except health is 50%, 50% level to gear hence while ascended gear provides a 10% improvmeent over exotic gear for the character the actual improvement is 5%. Still relevant obviously, not saying its useless just that its a little smaller then you thought.

In case of health the bulk comes from your class / level so health based stats will have an even smaller percentage.

escada_assassin, on 14 February 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I don't know about the variety kills in Orr. XD Everything's undead there.

he also said that he could finish the old daily easily by just playing so I am sure he wasnt refering to Orr since like you said thats the only region that doesnt have 13 kind of mobs. New dailies help there too though since unlike the old once you dont get the variety kill every single day and when you do it requries 2 less variety then the old one.

escada_assassin, on 14 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

You probably can't read, but that's another thing. The quy who I responded to asked people to name one area where you can't get your dailies done. Orr would be one, if you're after getting the daily variety kills (and I didn't say anything about me loving Orr so much or that I only play in Orr). If you would have read even more of my posts on this thread, you'd read (if you know how to) that I have nothing against the daily : before or after the update. Next time, read and only after that post.

Small clariffication, I didnt ask one area where you cannot complete dailies, I asked Protoss the area where he is finding it impossible to complete the new dailies while he said he had no problem completing the old dailies. This has to be an area where there is no water, corpses to revive, enemies to dodge or veteran.

[XPhiler]

Menehune, on 14 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

This made me start thinking (Ow! my brain hurts. ). Assuming no major issues pop up in their internal testing and we get all that in the update, I wonder what impact they will have on the dailies. What if a guild mission requires killing a platoon of vets to get to the back of a cave to throw one switch of 3 to start a meta event. One guild mission could possibly get you most if not the whole daily. Changes to WvW could also bring new achievements with them which may be part of the new daily rotation. Also about being able to choose the achievements - 4/6 was given as an example. It's not cast in concrete nor is it, as some might contend, a promise. It could be, and it sounds like, that 4/6 is really just the beginning or worst case. Wouldn't it be so much nicer to have like 5/8 or higher? Could very well be. Living story? How about assist injured refugees instead of reviving lifeless ones, visit all sites of events like the 2 steam vent areas, or use story specific environmental items like the signs x times? So many possibilites for ArenaNet to cater for more player types.

Of course the 4/6 was just an example.. we dont know how many there will really be you're right.

We'll have to see what the guild missions will be like yet. Cant imagine how this will work, maybe objectives that have to be completed simultaniously? not sure!  but yeah the dailies are by their nature generic, any content you play will hit one or more of them so no matter the case I am sure doing these type of missions will help you to some degree with your dailies.

Assisting injured refuges is already in game, if you travel the two main roads in the living story event sometimes you can see limping refuges which you can interact with and help them recover.

But yeah with selection they're now free to make many diverse achievements without having to worry about possibily negatively affecting a good number of players (I mean imagine a daily like killing a specific veteran in say sparkfly that would be a big problem for players who might be too low level or never visited the area.

[two maces]

xycury, on 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Dodger is too easy to get I don't see the problem with it.

Go to a Harpy hunter, let them fire 3 arrows, wait till they aim up and fire their first repeating shot, dodge forward twice from 900 range and you'll get 35% done.

Repeat 3 times.

Why a specific mob? Why can't you just do it normally , while playing? Why do you need to specifically wait for a mob to cast some attack before dodging?

[Menehune]

That's what happens when the typing fingers outpace the hurting brain. I meant making assisting refugees an achievement which counts toward dailies completion. Actually, this could be expanded to include any injured NPC.

[zwei2stein]

XPhiler, on 14 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Just for claffication purposes everything except health is 50%, 50% level to gear hence while ascended gear provides a 10% improvmeent over exotic gear for the character the actual improvement is 5%. Still relevant obviously, not saying its useless just that its a little smaller then you thought.

In case of health the bulk comes from your class / level so health based stats will have an even smaller percentage.

But then again, we are comparing items themselves, and by going of report of people who upgraded from greens to yellows or yellows to oranges, difference in both damage output and survivability is noticeable.

However, if it were only stats, it is reasonable to make acquisition of such item low priority.

What makes Ascendeds important are infusion slots and
http://wiki.guildwar...Gilded_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwar...agical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwar...Karmic_Infusion

Two of which provide stats that are otherwise avialble only through consumables and third provides pretty substantial MF.

[El Duderino]

Protoss, on 14 February 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Power vs. vanity in GW games.
Look it up.

Ok, can I politely ask you to make a new thread if you want to discuss your views on the power tiers in Guild Wars?

I don't feel that your contribution to this thread has anything to do with the change in dailies anymore. Instead, it seems you dislike the idea of the ascended gear and its "time sink". While the ascended gear certainly is part of the discussion in this thread - its place in the system of "power tiers" or your problems with vanity items do not belong.

Thank you.

[Gli]

zwei2stein, on 14 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

What makes Ascendeds important are infusion slots and
http://wiki.guildwar...Gilded_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwar...agical_Infusion
http://wiki.guildwar...Karmic_Infusion

Two of which provide stats that are otherwise avialble only through consumables and third provides pretty substantial MF.

A bit off-topic, but those utility infusions are something I really like actually. A huge resource-building bonus that doesn't require you to make a significant 'real' stat sacrifice. (I don't consider sacrificing a +4, or a +5 if you're willing to pay through the nose, a significant stat sacrifice.)

You just need to chose which resource you want to accumulate faster. Much more attractive than how Magic Find works on existing armor and runes. I wish they'd thought of this way of doing it from the start.

[El Duderino]

XPhiler, on 14 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

To be fair grind is a bit of a tricky thing. Its easy that a particular game play mechanic will be considered a grind for some and not a grind for others. It mainly depends on the player mind set. Lets take the dodging daily as an example. You can approach that as a total bore you need to get out of the way to get the laurel you're after. Even though it will take 2 mintues max it will feel like a grindy 2 minutes if you approach it with that mindset. On the other hand I like to think of Gw2 as a themepark that plays like a sandbox and make my own fun and its quite possible to do even with something as trivial as the dodging. I keep it interesting by trying the dodge on a different kind of mob each time. Work out the tells and timing of a new mob each time.

I don't disagree. My point is that, as far as grinds go, this probably ranks last in the grindiness factor (new word!) if there was such a thing. Unfortunately, MMO's will never be able to completely get rid of every grind, but I think ANet's attempt and success vs. other MMO's should be commended, not ridiculed.

As an aside, I guess I may be really good at dodging, but I never find that to be a problem. I can understand that it doesn't register MANY times, but with the amount of times I find myself dodging in fights, I seem to at least hit enough to complete my daily, even if it only registers 10% of the time.

Of course, I do agree that the healing thing is annoying as hell.

Menehune, on 14 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

This made me start thinking (Ow! my brain hurts. ). Assuming no major issues pop up in their internal testing and we get all that in the update, I wonder what impact they will have on the dailies. What if a guild mission requires killing a platoon of vets to get to the back of a cave to throw one switch of 3 to start a meta event. One guild mission could possibly get you most if not the whole daily. Changes to WvW could also bring new achievements with them which may be part of the new daily rotation. Also about being able to choose the achievements - 4/6 was given as an example. It's not cast in concrete nor is it, as some might contend, a promise. It could be, and it sounds like, that 4/6 is really just the beginning or worst case. Wouldn't it be so much nicer to have like 5/8 or higher? Could very well be. Living story? How about assist injured refugees instead of reviving lifeless ones, visit all sites of events like the 2 steam vent areas, or use story specific environmental items like the signs x times? So many possibilites for ArenaNet to cater for more player types.

Anything that would promote more team play and cooperation would be welcome, in my opinion.

These ideas are great and just the tip of the iceberg, if ANet chooses to go down that road, which they should.

[Eon Lilu]

I don't know about anyone else but im sick of "mmo dailies"...plus the one's Anet chose are so boring and generic or been done before so many times....

Sick of doing them already, even when you do them just while doing something else...plus you miss 25 achievements and 1 laurel every day you don't do your daily, kind of making you feel your forced to log in every single day....

I really hope they get rid of them and start using some imagination already...

Edited by Eon Lilu, 14 February 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[El Duderino]

Eon Lilu, on 14 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

I don't know about anyone else but im sick of "mmo dailies"...plus the one's Anet chose are so boring and generic or been done before so many times....

Sick of doing them already, even when you do them just while doing something else...plus you miss 25 achievements and 1 laurel every day you don't do your daily, kind of making you feel your forced to log in every single day....

I really hope they get rid of them and start using some imagination already...

May I ask whether you log in simply to do your dailies or do you log in to play the game and find that through your game play you aren't getting them finished (or almost finished)?

I am curious because I wonder if it is a mindset some people have that they need to get their dailies done and forget about playing the game for fun or if it is really that hard to accomplish for some through normal game play.

Also, I wonder if it is mostly players that have all of their characters at or near level 80 and aren't actively levelling any characters that find it difficult to accomplish through normal game play.

Also, do you still actively play the game on a normal basis (even if it is just weekends, etc), or are you just coming back to do the dailies so that IF you return the game after some new update and new content you won't be behind on the ascended gear train?

Hell, I would love to make a questionnaire asking questions like these so we all had a better idea of why certain players are having a harder time than others completing the dailies. Clearly many people see them as more of a grind than others and it is important to know why.

Edited by El Duderino, 14 February 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[Mastruq]

xycury, on 13 February 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Dodger is too easy to get I don't see the problem with it.

Go to a Harpy hunter, let them fire 3 arrows, wait till they aim up and fire their first repeating shot, dodge forward twice from 900 range and you'll get 35% done.

Repeat 3 times.

I think dodging should be toned down though, too many dodges, maybe 10 should be enough to max it out.

I think visiting the Laurel merchant is silly for a daily and honestly takes me the longest since I need to run back to town, I don't WP for nothing... and doing Mist>LA can be just as  inconvenient.

I bolded the part that is  "the problem" (not really a problem but more of a topic of discussion). To rephrase it: seeking out specific areas in order to complete the daily runs counter to the way the daily was before, when it was doable almost everwhere in the game (please no list of exotic locales that dont make it possible, everyone knows some of those spots).

The laurel thing is pretty bleh too but its so obviously a plant to show people what the new laurels give I can ignore that.

Its nice to see both sides of the argument mellow a bit in these last pages. I'm sure all agree the new system is a good step, just needs some adjustments. Btw I totally support the idea of a weekly to be put in for casual players that takes like 2-3 hours total, giving 4 laurels. That way the total laurels per month raises only slightly and those only playing for 90 minutes twice per week have a better gain per month. ideally they would have gone with a daily with 1 laurel, a weekly with 10 and a monthly with 50 and of course the cost of the items scaled to the gain per month similar to now. It wouldnt change the speed of getting the items much but give the players more options. Like some said, those that play every day and do the daily and all other sources of laurels still come out ahead, but the weekend warrior feels much better with the weekly.

[Mastruq]

El Duderino, on 14 February 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

May I ask whether you log in simply to do your dailies or do you log in to play the game and find that through your game play you aren't getting them finished (or almost finished)?

I am curious because I wonder if it is a mindset some people have that they need to get their dailies done and forget about playing the game for fun or if it is really that hard to accomplish for some through normal game play.

Also, I wonder if it is mostly players that have all of their characters at or near level 80 and aren't actively levelling any characters that find it difficult to accomplish through normal game play.

Also, do you still actively play the game on a normal basis (even if it is just weekends, etc), or are you just coming back to do the dailies so that IF you return the game after some new update and new content you won't be behind on the ascended gear train?

Hell, I would love to make a questionnaire asking questions like these so we all had a better idea of why certain players are having a harder time than others completing the dailies. Clearly many people see them as more of a grind than others and it is important to know why.

While the question wasnt directed towards me, I want to chime in here.

I am sick of the WoW style dailies too. For those unaware you do the same or very similar quests in the same area every day for your "laurels".

Thats why I loved the old GW2 daily where I could just normally play to work towards my world completion and an hour or two usually meant the daily is done during that time without paying it any mind. I do not care about the ascended items and have played in a total of like 15 fractals because I wanted to (some are fun, some are meh), not because of any gear. I dont have full exotics anyway, game doesnt require them to do the content.

The daily change is in my eyes not perfect because it ever so slightly edges you towards specific areas you already know to complete them because you find a litter of dead npcs there or something that quickly generates evades on dodges. It runs counter to the freedom I enjoyed in the old version of the daily. But like I said a dozen times in this thread dont consider this whining, its just my view of things and I dont let it detract from the game fun too much. Its just that here at work I cant play anyway so why not talk about the recent game changes instead =)

[Eon Lilu]

El Duderino, on 14 February 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

May I ask whether you log in simply to do your dailies or do you log in to play the game and find that through your game play you aren't getting them finished (or almost finished)?

I am curious because I wonder if it is a mindset some people have that they need to get their dailies done and forget about playing the game for fun or if it is really that hard to accomplish for some through normal game play.

Also, I wonder if it is mostly players that have all of their characters at or near level 80 and aren't actively levelling any characters that find it difficult to accomplish through normal game play.

Also, do you still actively play the game on a normal basis (even if it is just weekends, etc), or are you just coming back to do the dailies so that IF you return the game after some new update and new content you won't be behind on the ascended gear train?

Hell, I would love to make a questionnaire asking questions like these so we all had a better idea of why certain players are having a harder time than others completing the dailies. Clearly many people see them as more of a grind than others and it is important to know why.

Basically im against the boring generic copy and paste style of dailies in any mmo, I find it unimaginative and lazy way of giving rewards. Also I am against how if you do not log in every single day, you lose rewards, 25 achievements and 1 laurel every single day lost that you do not log in...so now players are punished for not being able to play every single day?

Seems kind of backwards to what Anet "said" they were trying to achieve...

[Gli]

El Duderino, on 14 February 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

May I ask whether you log in simply to do your dailies or do you log in to play the game and find that through your game play you aren't getting them finished (or almost finished)?

I am curious because I wonder if it is a mindset some people have that they need to get their dailies done and forget about playing the game for fun or if it is really that hard to accomplish for some through normal game play.

Also, I wonder if it is mostly players that have all of their characters at or near level 80 and aren't actively levelling any characters that find it difficult to accomplish through normal game play.

Also, do you still actively play the game on a normal basis (even if it is just weekends, etc), or are you just coming back to do the dailies so that IF you return the game after some new update and new content you won't be behind on the ascended gear train?

Hell, I would love to make a questionnaire asking questions like these so we all had a better idea of why certain players are having a harder time than others completing the dailies. Clearly many people see them as more of a grind than others and it is important to know why.

I'm not levelling any characters, have 4 at 80 and 4 stuck at various stages of progress that I have no interest in playing for the time being. All my eighties are in full exotics/ascended (except for amulets obviously).

I play at most 2 or 3 week nights, never for a very long time, and also 1 or both weekend days, usually for a good number of hours. I used to play more, but don't have the time nor the inclination to play more at the moment. I rarely ever just log on to do my dailies but sometimes end up actively doing them when I find myself without enough guildies/friends to do something more interesting.

I have never completed a set of the new dailies spontaneously while playing, falling short every time in many of the new categories. Some of them are just patronizing time wasters (visiting a laurel merchant, crafting), some just don't come up if you're not playing in the right place (underwater tends to either fill up without giving it a thought, or stick at 0% the whole session) and then there's the dodging one that just seems to conflict with my manner of playing. I can play for hours without completing it on some characters. I played my mesmer yesterday, in the Wayfarer Foothills. I soloed Kill the corrupted leader of the Sons of Svanir without getting a single evade.

What I resent about the whole thing are the rewards one can only get in exchange for giving in and doing stupid, pointless, uninteresting things. I don't so much have a problem with stupid, pointless, uninteresting things giving rewards, but I do have a problem with there not being a different way of getting them. I also resent having to increase the frequency at which I play if I want to earn these rewards before the next batch of new rewards are likely to make an appearance. It's not that I don't want to do anything for the new rewards, on the contrary: I consider 'doing the dailies' the equivalent of doing nothing. 'Doing the dailies' is just going through the motions, filling quotas of incidental happenings. When I'm farming corpses or dodges, I feel I'm doing nothing. When I'm swimming somewhere with the express purpose of farming easy underwater kills, I feel I'm doing nothing. When I'm heading back to a place with a crafting station to refine some resources, I feel I'm doing nothing. I don't want to be spending my precious game-time doing all kinds of nothing. And most of the time, I don't, because I hate it, but it goes further than that: I don't want to be tempted to spend my precious game-time doing all kinds of nothing with rewards that are otherwise unattainable.

And I haven't even mentioned how awful it is when you have multiple characters to consider, if, like me, you don't have a 'main'.

Edited by Gli, 14 February 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[El Duderino]

Mastruq, on 14 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

While the question wasnt directed towards me, I want to chime in here.

I am sick of the WoW style dailies too. For those unaware you do the same or very similar quests in the same area every day for your "laurels".

Thats why I loved the old GW2 daily where I could just normally play to work towards my world completion and an hour or two usually meant the daily is done during that time without paying it any mind. I do not care about the ascended items and have played in a total of like 15 fractals because I wanted to (some are fun, some are meh), not because of any gear. I dont have full exotics anyway, game doesnt require them to do the content.

The daily change is in my eyes not perfect because it ever so slightly edges you towards specific areas you already know to complete them because you find a litter of dead npcs there or something that quickly generates evades on dodges. It runs counter to the freedom I enjoyed in the old version of the daily. But like I said a dozen times in this thread dont consider this whining, its just my view of things and I dont let it detract from the game fun too much. Its just that here at work I cant play anyway so why not talk about the recent game changes instead =)

Eon Lilu, on 14 February 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Basically im against the boring generic copy and paste style of dailies in any mmo, I find it unimaginative and lazy way of giving rewards. Also I am against how if you do not log in every single day, you lose rewards, 25 achievements and 1 laurel every single day lost that you do not log in...so now players are punished for not being able to play every single day?

Seems kind of backwards to what Anet "said" they were trying to achieve...

Here is the problem and solutions I feel are being described in the above posts:

Question: How do you create a reward system for casual players that gives them a chance to work towards very desirable rewards without making it feel like a grind for both low level and high level characters, which is also accessible by everyone?

Answer: Clearly, the dailies are accessible to everyone, but it seems that high level characters in "end game" status feel, perhaps rightfully so, that the tasks are menial and require them to go backwards in their daily play rather than forwards to things they want to do.

The best suggestion people have come up with so far is:

1) Create multiple daily achievements and have it be that you need to accomplish X/Y. The achievements would need to allow high level and low level characters the ability to accomplish said achievements through their daily play. However, this still doesn't resolve the problem of daily rewards not being available for non-daily players. So...

2) Create additional reward mechanics, such as weeklies or perhaps other ideas, that would reward players that cannot play daily. First, I think ANet is working on this. However, people will have to realize that ultimately, there is no system that will keep daily players from "getting ahead" over others. It is just the way it is. But, at least ANet can make it so that less regular players are able to accomplish obtaining laurel rewards in a respectable amount of time. Keep in mind that they still need to consider balancing everything so that daily players can't obtain the same rewards TOO quickly.

Edited by El Duderino, 14 February 2013 - 03:55 PM.