805 replies to this topic

[raspberry jam]

Kymeric, on 18 February 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

I admit, as I get more and more play sessions under my belt, the dailies are starting to feel like a chore.  Perhaps because the list is there at the corner of the screen all the time.  Perhaps because the rewards are so enticing (as opposed to "mess of karma I'll eventually use).  Or it may be that sometimes they come easy and sometimes not, and I'll never know so I feel inclined to get them out of the way rather than wondering whether I'll need to log off before they're done.

All of the above, I'd say... That's how it works.

[Bloggi]

Kymeric, on 18 February 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Perhaps because the rewards are so enticing (as opposed to "mess of karma I'll eventually use).  Or it may be that sometimes they come easy and sometimes not, and I'll never know so I feel inclined to get them out of the way rather than wondering whether I'll need to log off before they're done.

Exactly how I'm playing the game at the moment on the nights after work. The dailies are pretty important to me and hence I spend the little bit of time I have getting them done first so at least I know they're all done and dusted before logging off.

[Volkon]

raspberry jam, on 18 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Why would you be slower? I mean, you play just as many hours as the guy that logs on every day.

And since I get a stat boost for that necklace, obviously my game will be, comparatively speaking, negatively impacted, since I'm not playing the stats I could have.

You'd be slower if you stuck to doing dailies as your only method for acquiring ascended gear and didn't do them daily.

As for the second statement, how exactly is your game negatively impacted when you don't need those meager additional stats anyhow? At least... how outside of your own mind is your game negatively impacted?

[raspberry jam]

Volkon, on 19 February 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

You'd be slower if you stuck to doing dailies as your only method for acquiring ascended gear and didn't do them daily.

As for the second statement, how exactly is your game negatively impacted when you don't need those meager additional stats anyhow? At least... how outside of your own mind is your game negatively impacted?

But every bit of enjoyment of the game happens inside your mind. Fun is inside your mind.

[Ritualist]

OMG! I finally finished my first daily!
I just had to grind the same DEs all over again (oh Queensdale troll, your death brings me +1s), the area around the troll allowed me to get 13 unique kills and 20 gatherings, I was able to easily get the dodges on the veteran trees (love those foes and their insanely telegraphed attacks allow for SUPER easy dodges) and then I simply switched characters and revived a bunch of Scrap-BOTS.

Of course, I now need to park my characters in those locations and keep doing the exact same thing over and over and over again, but I guess that's the gameplay that GW2 rewards.

[Volkon]

raspberry jam, on 19 February 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

But every bit of enjoyment of the game happens inside your mind. Fun is inside your mind.

As well as not being able to have fun.

It's simple. They've added the "next" way from what will be a list of multiple ways to get ascended gear. So far the list looks like this:

* Fractals of the Mists
* Daily quest completions

There will be more added to the list as we progress. The larger the list gets, the more options you'll have to get ascended gear, yet each and every item on the list will require at least a small dedication of time. Fractals will require you to get to at least level 10, and when you do you'll have... wait for it... a "daily" in FotM (actually one for each ten Fractal levels) that gives you a chance for a ring or a relic to save and cash in for rings (10 required). Daily quests now give you a laurel (monthly gives 10) and you need thirty for an ascended amulet (were rings 20? I forget... ).

You now, at this moment, have two different paths to take to get ascended items, with more paths coming soon. I know people doing their dailies now because they like that they can work ascended gear simply by doing things they normally do while playing (with minor exceptions... for example having to kill underwater). I know a lot more will like it when they implement the "choose 5 of 9 things on the list to complete" option for the dailies, making it even easier to play how you want and achieve it. WvW people are looking forwards to them adding ascended items through WvW play (possibly badges, not sure).

This being said... the thought that you (general you, not specific) can't have fun in this great game because they haven't yet implemented a means to get ascended items, which are by design supposed to require a bit of time investment, ... it boggles the mind. I'm so boggled at the moment that I forgot where I was going with this, so there's proof.

[Volkon]

Ritualist, on 19 February 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

OMG! I finally finished my first daily!
I just had to grind the same DEs all over again (oh Queensdale troll, your death brings me +1s), the area around the troll allowed me to get 13 unique kills and 20 gatherings, I was able to easily get the dodges on the veteran trees (love those foes and their insanely telegraphed attacks allow for SUPER easy dodges) and then I simply switched characters and revived a bunch of Scrap-BOTS.

Of course, I now need to park my characters in those locations and keep doing the exact same thing over and over and over again, but I guess that's the gameplay that GW2 rewards.

Why? Why park characters? Here's my daily completion (on average) methodology...

WvW. I do WvW quite a bit, so I've integrated it nicely into the daily regime. For example, flip an enemy supply camp and you can get:
* Up to three events if both dolyaks are present.
* Up to four veteran kills
* Multiple kills (yaks, npcs) for kill total or kill diversity
* Dodging - Hey, I'm a dodger. It happens by accident.
I also gather in WvW, revive fallen players as I find them, and underwater kills are ridiculously easy... even the white underwater critters (salmon, etc.) count.

If I still need something, usually revives, I pop over and visit Nageling (not sure on the spelling) in the Charr early zone (giant attacks the town). The area is littered with bodies to rez. Takes a few minutes tops, plus you can add to the kill variety if needed still.

If I find I only have gathering left, I make it count and zip down to Orr at the southern most waypoint. For crafting, pop to L.A. and throw some ingots together or the like, maybe make a fresh batch of munchies for WvW.

The whole things proves to be incredibly fast and easy to complete. I tend to leave WvW with at least 60% completion and often only need to craft to complete it.

[Kymeric]

Volkon, on 19 February 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

Why? Why park characters?

Saves travel time or WP fees?

Some of us don't play for huge amounts each day, and concentrating on dailies can dominate our play session.  Log in for an hour, chase down the dailies, and sure, you'll have a little time to do something else, but it feels like the game should be renamed Guild Chores 2.

Parking helps with that.

[omar316]

Gold Wars 2.
Farm Wars 2.
Guild Chores 2.
AH wars 2.

What else did I miss?

[tfckmk988]

OT

omar316, on 20 February 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

Gold Wars 2.
Farm Wars 2.
Guild Chores 2.
AH wars 2.

What else did I miss?

people seem to think general grind wars

not to me imo

ON topic: um i can do the daily fairly easily i do it in queensdale for how many events spawn quickly and lots more players that the mid 20-40 zone i am currently on in map completion

Edited by tfckmk988, 20 February 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Winterclaw]

Dodge attacks is a little too picky on what counts as an evade.  Evading too early doesn't register.  The healer one you never find anything to be healed.  Veteran slayer you never find veterans to slay.  No I don't want to gather or craft today.  I have no interest in dungeons so that monthly is out of reach for me.

Can't I just get the karma and laurel for logging in?

[Ritualist]

Volkon, on 19 February 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

The whole things proves to be incredibly fast and easy to complete. I tend to leave WvW with at least 60% completion and often only need to craft to complete it.

I don't do WvW because I don't care for PvE where other players can attack you.

And yes, you are right, that the new daily is easy and fast. If you are in the right locations. And as I said, the problem is that the kind of gameplay that I described above, doing the same event over and over again, while you circle around it doing the remaining requirements and then go to resurrecting AI, whose ONLY function is to explode some 15 seconds after you rez them DOES reward you with the daily reward, while simply exploring the world does not guarantee the reward.
I'd love to run around the world, but simply running up and down in a select location, while grinding the game is currently more rewarding.


EDIT:

Winterclaw, on 20 February 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Can't I just get the karma and laurel for logging in?

I'd love it if you could actually play for it.

Edited by Ritualist, 20 February 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[XPhiler]

Ritualist, on 20 February 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

I don't do WvW because I don't care for PvE where other players can attack you.

And yes, you are right, that the new daily is easy and fast. If you are in the right locations.

Don't you thinkk you're being overdramatic

in which zone in the world are there no 13 variety (Orr being the only exception), 60 mobs to kill, 20 materials to gather, mobs to dodge, a patch of water for the aquatic achievement, something to revive, 5 dynamic events,veterans to kill (this is the only one that can get a little tricky in some areas)  but for the rest you can do them anywhere. its not just that 1 spot in queensdale.

[Ritualist]

XPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Don't you think you're being overdramatic

in which zone in the world are there no 13 variety (Orr being the only exception), 60 mobs to kill, 20 materials to gather, mobs to dodge, a patch of water for the aquatic achievement, something to revive, 5 dynamic events,veterans to kill (this is the only one that can get a little tricky in some areas)  but for the rest you can do them anywhere. its not just that 1 spot in queensdale.

Given the dynamic nature of the game, a person completing the daily at a specific point in time at a select location does not guarantee that another player can complete the daily at the same location at a different point in time.
Especially, when we are talking about players with a fairly limited play time.

[raspberry jam]

Volkon, on 19 February 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

I'm so boggled at the moment that I forgot where I was going with this, so there's proof.

You make literally no point throughout your post, you even admit that fact, and then you claim that it is "proof".

Ok then.

[Faowri]

I have to say, I'm generally enjoying the new dailies so far. My big problem (that I hope is resolved when the extended implementation of 'complete X/Y achievements) is that some areas are good for completing dailies in, and some aren't. On the bright side, this does encourage me to do some work on my alts in the lower levels, but if I didn't want to do that I'd be one peeved puppy trying to scown the daily out of the dirt of Orr on my main right now, who still hasn't completed the personal story.

[Eon Lilu]

omar316, on 20 February 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

Gold Wars 2.
Farm Wars 2.
Guild Chores 2.
AH wars 2.

What else did I miss?

Daily Wars 2, Grind Wars 2, Stat Wars 2, and Warrior Wars 2

Edited by Eon Lilu, 20 February 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[XPhiler]

Ritualist, on 20 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Given the dynamic nature of the game, a person completing the daily at a specific point in time at a select location does not guarantee that another player can complete the daily at the same location at a different point in time.
Especially, when we are talking about players with a fairly limited play time.

True, but thats also true of Queensdale and anywhere else. Not to mention that every zone has events that loop ever 5 minutes.

[Volkon]

Kymeric, on 19 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Saves travel time or WP fees?

Some of us don't play for huge amounts each day, and concentrating on dailies can dominate our play session.  Log in for an hour, chase down the dailies, and sure, you'll have a little time to do something else, but it feels like the game should be renamed Guild Chores 2.

Parking helps with that.

So you don't have much time to play, yet you're pursuing items meant to be a time sink? Maybe that's the problem there... the dailies are meant to occupy a period of time for people that like the feeling of progression (chasing ascended items), yet the ascended items themselves are marginally better than exotics and not needed at all for the game. It takes, at best, three weeks to get the amulet, and that includes the monthly. Then another three weeks, monthly included again, to get a utility infusion to plug into it. So for a fully equipped amulets you're looking at a month and a half, including the laurels from the two months. If you're only logging in for short periods of time, this may not be a goal you should be spending your time chasing.

Let's add some numbers to back this up if I may... I just got the berserker equivalent amulet (forgot to look at the name) to replace my ruby orichalcum amulet of the berserker.


Ascended Amulet: 126 power, 85 precision,  9% crit
Ruby-ori  Berserk:   115 power, 79 precision,  8% crit
Base: 1867 power, 1684 precision, 35% crit

The new amulet is adding only 11 power, 6 precision and 1% crit to a base of 1867, 1684 and 35% respectively. This is not a huge gain by any means... you really need to consider if the time you spend playing is worth such marginal stats.

Edited by Volkon, 20 February 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[raspberry jam]

Volkon, on 20 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

you really need to consider if the time you spend playing is worth such marginal stats.

As the game keeps expanding the gap will expand too step by step until it's noticeable for anyone who didn't keep up.

[Lordkrall]

raspberry jam, on 20 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

As the game keeps expanding the gap will expand too step by step until it's noticeable for anyone who didn't keep up.

You mean just like how it is noticeable when one have full rare gear and one have exotic gear? Oh wait..

[Ritualist]

XPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

True, but thats also true of Queensdale and anywhere else. Not to mention that every zone has events that loop ever 5 minutes.

Yes, but that's not a good thing to be true.
It's absolutely fantastic because it allows players to have a fairly unique playing experience, but the dailies do not exactly take this unique experience into account, now do they: every players is expected to do the same thing, despite every player not doing the same thing BY DESIGN.



EDIT:

Volkon, on 20 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

So you don't have much time to play, yet you're pursuing items meant to be a time sink? Maybe that's the problem there... the dailies are meant to occupy a period of time for people that like the feeling of progression (chasing ascended items), yet the ascended items themselves are marginally better than exotics and not needed at all for the game.

http://www.guildwars...60#entry2161424

Quote

Daily achievements ... They are very easy to accomplish, and players are expected to complete them in a short period of time ... and the numbers are skewed such that more casual players should finish a high percentage of them in an average play session ... This system makes the first couple of hours of play each day extremely productive and helps equalize experience and gold gain between casual and hardcore players.

Edited by Ritualist, 20 February 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[raspberry jam]

Lordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

You mean just like how it is noticeable when one have full rare gear and one have exotic gear? Oh wait..

That is probably a 10% difference in clearing time, so yes.

[Lordkrall]

raspberry jam, on 20 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

That is probably a 10% difference in clearing time, so yes.

Probably? Lets talk about facts instead, shall we?

[Gli]

Volkon, on 20 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

So you don't have much time to play, yet you're pursuing items meant to be a time sink? Maybe that's the problem there... the dailies are meant to occupy a period of time for people that like the feeling of progression (chasing ascended items), yet the ascended items themselves are marginally better than exotics and not needed at all for the game. It takes, at best, three weeks to get the amulet, and that includes the monthly. Then another three weeks, monthly included again, to get a utility infusion to plug into it. So for a fully equipped amulets you're looking at a month and a half, including the laurels from the two months. If you're only logging in for short periods of time, this may not be a goal you should be spending your time chasing.

Let's add some numbers to back this up if I may... I just got the berserker equivalent amulet (forgot to look at the name) to replace my ruby orichalcum amulet of the berserker.


Ascended Amulet: 126 power, 85 precision,  9% crit
Ruby-ori  Berserk:   115 power, 79 precision,  8% crit
Base: 1867 power, 1684 precision, 35% crit

The new amulet is adding only 11 power, 6 precision and 1% crit to a base of 1867, 1684 and 35% respectively. This is not a huge gain by any means... you really need to consider if the time you spend playing is worth such marginal stats.

Again and again you've been ignoring the fact that many people have plenty of time to play, just not in daily doses. As such, your 'time sink' arguments are worthless. It's very obvious that it's not just a time sink. I also fail to see how you can manage to mention the expensive utility infusions (the good ones) in your first paragraph, but fail to mention them in your stat comparison. That reeks of disingenuity.

[raspberry jam]

Lordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Probably? Lets talk about facts instead, shall we?

It's an assumption. Fact is that the clearing time can only be improved with better gear.

[Volkon]

Gli, on 20 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

[/spoil]
Again and again you've been ignoring the fact that many people have plenty of time to play, just not in daily doses. As such, your 'time sink' arguments are worthless. It's very obvious that it's not just a time sink. I also fail to see how you can manage to mention the expensive utility infusions (the good ones) in your first paragraph, but fail to mention them in your stat comparison. That reeks of disingenuity.

Utility infusions didn't seem worth mentioning, but here they are:
Gilded Infusion Utility +20% gold from monsters  
Magical Infusion Utility +20% magic find
Experienced Infusion Utility +20% experience from kills
Karmic Infusion Utility +15% karma                            

Sorry to be so disingenuous as to not mention the benefits of that +15% karma that takes three weeks to get when it comes to combat. What an oversight!

Edited by Volkon, 20 February 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[Volkon]

raspberry jam, on 20 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

It's an assumption. Fact is that the clearing time can only be improved with better gear.

That isn't a fact. Clearing time can be improved with better skill as well as familiarity with what you're fighting. Marginally better stats won't make someone magically not a dumbass if they were before they put the gear on.

Edited by Volkon, 20 February 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[raspberry jam]

Volkon, on 20 February 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

That isn't a fact. Clearing time can be improved with better skill as well as familiarity with what you're fighting. Marginally better stats won't make someone magically not a dumbass if they were before they put the gear on.

My skill level doesn't change when I change gear, but the damage I do, and the amount of damage I can survive, changes. I don't see how that could possibly not change the clearing time. So yes, it is a fact.

On top of that, as for the utility infusions you so kindly listed above, 20% more gold from monsters mean 20% less time to get X gold from monsters, and +15% karma means 15% less time needed to get X karma.

[Resolve]

Haha wow. The topic has reached the 'well the extra stats aren't even that much, they don't matter at all' point.