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#691 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

View PostVolkon, on 20 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

So you don't have much time to play, yet you're pursuing items meant to be a time sink? Maybe that's the problem there... the dailies are meant to occupy a period of time for people that like the feeling of progression (chasing ascended items),

Hey, that's cool, if the dailies are meant to be an endgame grind.

I suppose without a direct statement from the devs, we won't know, but many are plugging dailies as a way to give progression to casuals.  They look like they're intended to cover everyday things you do normally, and you get a point of progress toward a good endgame piece each day you do.

So yeah, if they're supposed to be a grindy, log in and do your chores kinda thing, then they are working.  In which case, it makes sense to park toons where you can be as efficient as possible.

If they are supposed to be something that happens naturally as part of playing the game for any significant portion of time, they aren't, as evidenced by the communities desire to find farming spots to get them out of the way.

And I'll just point out that it's pretty warped to think that committing an hour a day to any activity is "not much time".  Outside of work, sleep, watching television and video games, devoting an hour a day to anything would at least qualify you as an enthusiast.

For example: I practice an instrument an hour a day.  I sketch an hour a day.  I work on my stamp collection an hour a day.  I work on my car an hour a day.

#692 astromarmot

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:37 PM

View PostKymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Hey, that's cool, if the dailies are meant to be an endgame grind.

I suppose without a direct statement from the devs, we won't know, but many are plugging dailies as a way to give progression to casuals.  They look like they're intended to cover everyday things you do normally, and you get a point of progress toward a good endgame piece each day you do.

So yeah, if they're supposed to be a grindy, log in and do your chores kinda thing, then they are working.  In which case, it makes sense to park toons where you can be as efficient as possible.

If they are supposed to be something that happens naturally as part of playing the game for any significant portion of time, they aren't, as evidenced by the communities desire to find farming spots to get them out of the way.

And I'll just point out that it's pretty warped to think that committing an hour a day to any activity is "not much time".  Outside of work, sleep, watching television and video games, devoting an hour a day to anything would at least qualify you as an enthusiast.

For example: I practice an instrument an hour a day.  I sketch an hour a day.  I work on my stamp collection an hour a day.  I work on my car an hour a day.

I spend about an hour and a half commuting every day, and I'm not that enthusiastic about it ;-)

#693 Swarfega

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

I agree with others it takes too long to complete now.  Some items need reductions.

Dodge - 15 - should be 7
Crafting - 10 -  just needs removing. Maybe replace with salvage 15?
Variety - 15 - 10
Veteran- 5 - 3 or make anything Vet or harder count. Mean's a group kill of a boss will count.
Healer - 10 - should be 5 - I now let NPC's die just so I can res them. How to break an RPG...
Daily Laurel vendor - I mean.. really? Remove it.
Daily kills - 50 - I personally think this is fine and easily obtainable, more importantly you can gain this as you play the game as per the events and gatherer dailies.
Under water kills - 25 - 10, everyone hates underwater combat.
Gatherer - 20 - Fine with this.
Events - 5 - Can be annoying but generally fine with it

I suppose this could be completely changed.  So that all of the above count towards a goal.  EG you need 100 points to complete the daily and performing each of the above counts as 1 point.  This would promote natural game play.
No daily would ever be completed the same as a previous one.

Edited by Swarfega, 20 February 2013 - 02:48 PM.


#694 astromarmot

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

View PostSwarfega, on 20 February 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I agree with others it takes too long to complete now.  Some items need reductions.

Dodge - 15 - should be 7
Crafting - 10 -  just needs removing. Maybe replace with salvage 15?
Variety - 15 - 10
Veteran- 5 - 3 or make anything Vet or harder count. Mean's a group kill of a boss will count.
Healer - 10 - should be 5 - I now let NPC's die just so I can res them. How to break an RPG...
Daily Laurel vendor - I mean.. really? Remove it.
Daily kills - 50 - I personally think this is fine and easily obtainable, more importantly you can gain this as you play the game as per the events and gatherer dailies.
Under water kills - 25 - 10, everyone hates underwater combat.
Gatherer - 20 - Fine with this.
Events - 5 - Can be annoying but generally fine with it

Re: the DE's, it would be nice if the requirement could somehow be tied to the proximity and frequency of events near you...last week I literally missed out on 3 separate DEs three times in a row by less than 2 minutes, after running and WPing responding to map announcements...

#695 zwei2stein

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostVolkon, on 20 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Utility infusions didn't seem worth mentioning, but here they are:
Posted Image Gilded Infusion Utility +20% gold from monsters  
Posted Image Magical Infusion Utility +20% magic find
Posted Image Experienced Infusion Utility +20% experience from kills
Posted Image Karmic Infusion Utility +15% karma

Sorry to be so disingenuous as to not mention the benefits of that +15% karma that takes three weeks to get when it comes to combat. What an oversight!

Wanna talk benefits?

Lets talk MF.

20% MF from utility infusion is motra than MF from complete Travelers set.

Compare

a) Full zerker equip with MF infused ascended zerker piece

and

B) Full traveller equip with exotic zerker piece.

Notice how you could switch from power being minor stat to major stat and add critical damage on top of that along with other stats gains and MF gain?

You gain 91 power, 2 MF, 16% crit damage which infusion slot is equivalent of and of course get basic ascended 11 power, 6 precision and 1% crit.

You might thik that you would losse mf at cost of better combat stats, but it turns out that you can gain combat stats out of this as well as some mf.

Those 102 power / 17% crit / 6 precision / 2 mf as more than enough stats to cove stat budget of any one exotic item slot - it rounds to 400 stat point budget (crit damage is fairly expensive). Exotic L80 Accesory with Exotic jewel has budget of 191 points.

Basically, infusion slot can give you enough stats to leave your earrings unequipped and still come on top of with quite superior dps and mf over full exotic mfer.

But of course you are free to routinelly ignore the most powerfull thing about ascended gear: amulet utility slot.

#696 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

View Postastromarmot, on 20 February 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I spend about an hour and a half commuting every day, and I'm not that enthusiastic about it ;-)

Touche!

Though we could probably lump that in with "work". ;)

Maybe when Google perfects their driverless car you can get those dailies done during that commute.

Edited by Kymeric, 20 February 2013 - 02:49 PM.


#697 XPhiler

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

View PostRitualist, on 20 February 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Yes, but that's not a good thing to be true.
It's absolutely fantastic because it allows players to have a fairly unique playing experience, but the dailies do not exactly take this unique experience into account, now do they: every players is expected to do the same thing, despite every player not doing the same thing BY DESIGN.

EDIT:


http://www.guildwars...60#entry2161424

Dynamic Events are the core of the PvE experiance. I mean really if you like to play PvE whats the main thing you're gonna be doing if not playing events?

As for players doing the same thing there are 1500+ dynamic events in the game any 5 of those apply for the daily. The trick is to play the game rather then do the daily. If I am leveling a character in say metrica province I will complete my daily there even though I know queensdale so well that I can get it done there faster in most cases. If I am limited on time then I will just do it in queensdale sure but if I am limited on time I cant really play in metrica province anyway (we're talking less then 30 mins here) because thats not enough time for me at least to enjoy anything. I need to learn about an area see what events happen and do the chains from start to finish. 30 mins is not enough time for that.

#698 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

View Postastromarmot, on 20 February 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Re: the DE's, it would be nice if the requirement could somehow be tied to the proximity and frequency of events near you...last week I literally missed out on 3 separate DEs three times in a row by less than 2 minutes, after running and WPing responding to map announcements...

It'd be nice if they simply increased the rate that DEs spawn.

But yeah, tying the daily to their frequency would be a good second.

#699 XPhiler

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

View Postraspberry jam, on 20 February 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

My skill level doesn't change when I change gear, but the damage I do, and the amount of damage I can survive, changes. I don't see how that could possibly not change the clearing time. So yes, it is a fact.

On top of that, as for the utility infusions you so kindly listed above, 20% more gold from monsters mean 20% less time to get X gold from monsters, and +15% karma means 15% less time needed to get X karma.

Except it does thanks to a thing called psychologically. If you think gear is what makes all the difference thats what you're going to focus on. If you think player skill trumps gear thats what you're going to focus on to get the edge you desire. That in turn will lead to better tactics and better builds because you'll try to improve it.

View PostResolve, on 20 February 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Haha wow. The topic has reached the 'well the extra stats aren't even that much, they don't matter at all' point.

Its been like that since day one because its absolutely true.

#700 XPhiler

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

View PostKymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Hey, that's cool, if the dailies are meant to be an endgame grind.

I suppose without a direct statement from the devs, we won't know, but many are plugging dailies as a way to give progression to casuals.  They look like they're intended to cover everyday things you do normally, and you get a point of progress toward a good endgame piece each day you do.

So yeah, if they're supposed to be a grindy, log in and do your chores kinda thing, then they are working.  In which case, it makes sense to park toons where you can be as efficient as possible.

If they are supposed to be something that happens naturally as part of playing the game for any significant portion of time, they aren't, as evidenced by the communities desire to find farming spots to get them out of the way.

And I'll just point out that it's pretty warped to think that committing an hour a day to any activity is "not much time".  Outside of work, sleep, watching television and video games, devoting an hour a day to anything would at least qualify you as an enthusiast.

For example: I practice an instrument an hour a day.  I sketch an hour a day.  I work on my stamp collection an hour a day.  I work on my car an hour a day.

Sure, what you say is true except all of it is all player choice rather then something the game is forcing on you. If Gw2 wanted to force people to do the daily on a daily bases it would implement a mechanic like Neverwinter is going to have. IE every day you log in you get a currency you can use to get stuff the first day you miss you loose all the accumulated currencies. As it is right now if you can only play on monday, wednesday and friday you're not going to miss anything. It takes 25 days of completing dailies to get an amulate and it will still take 25 days of completing dailies to get them even if you log in 3 times a week instead of 7.

As for grindy chore or natural gameplay it depends on the player once again. If you log in and get the dailies out of the way as your first activity then yes they'll soon feel grindy no doubt. If you log in play your game and then finish off the few if any remaining tasks then it will not feel grindy at all.

No game can ever give freedom to players so they play any way they want but at the same time prevent them from making gameplay choices they themselves dont enjoy!

View Postzwei2stein, on 20 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Wanna talk benefits?

Lets talk MF.

20% MF from utility infusion is motra than MF from complete Travelers set.

Compare

a) Full zerker equip with MF infused ascended zerker piece

and

B) Full traveller equip with exotic zerker piece.

Notice how you could switch from power being minor stat to major stat and add critical damage on top of that along with other stats gains and MF gain?

You gain 91 power, 2 MF, 16% crit damage which infusion slot is equivalent of and of course get basic ascended 11 power, 6 precision and 1% crit.

You might thik that you would losse mf at cost of better combat stats, but it turns out that you can gain combat stats out of this as well as some mf.

Those 102 power / 17% crit / 6 precision / 2 mf as more than enough stats to cove stat budget of any one exotic item slot - it rounds to 400 stat point budget (crit damage is fairly expensive). Exotic L80 Accesory with Exotic jewel has budget of 191 points.

Basically, infusion slot can give you enough stats to leave your earrings unequipped and still come on top of with quite superior dps and mf over full exotic mfer.

But of course you are free to routinelly ignore the most powerfull thing about ascended gear: amulet utility slot.

This combination imho should go.

MF should be part of risk vs reward formula, right now it makes sense because getting MF means gimping yourself what you're saying will not be gimping yourself at all which is bad in my opinion.

View PostKymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

It'd be nice if they simply increased the rate that DEs spawn.

But yeah, tying the daily to their frequency would be a good second.

players can do that themselves actually. If you're part of a guild make it a guild activity. The more players in an area the faster the DE will spawn.

#701 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:07 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Dynamic Events are the core of the PvE experiance. I mean really if you like to play PvE whats the main thing you're gonna be doing if not playing events?

As for players doing the same thing there are 1500+ dynamic events in the game any 5 of those apply for the daily. The trick is to play the game rather then do the daily. If I am leveling a character in say metrica province I will complete my daily there even though I know queensdale so well that I can get it done there faster in most cases. If I am limited on time then I will just do it in queensdale sure but if I am limited on time I cant really play in metrica province anyway (we're talking less then 30 mins here) because thats not enough time for me at least to enjoy anything. I need to learn about an area see what events happen and do the chains from start to finish. 30 mins is not enough time for that.

Then again, you can spend 2 hours in a mid-level zone during low population times roaming, doing hearts, vistas and skillpoints, and only find your fifth DE fifteen minutes before logging off.  This happened to me today in Blazeridge Steppes, and I only got 5 in those two hours because two of the events were near each other, and the first one respawned while I was doing the second.

I've "played the game" for an hour and a half and not found 5 DEs, even though I'm constantly moving into new, unexplored areas.

I haven't had any problem finding veterans up until today, but in spite of clearing a good chunk of Blazeridge, I encountered none.  I had to pop over to Gendarran fields where I know there are a lot of Veteran Oakhearts wandering around close together in order to cross that off the list.

I parked an alt at the Thaumanova Reactor, since the content there can satisfy a lot of dailies, just in case I'm having this kind of trouble.  Unfortunately, I hopped over to her this morning and found that the Reactor chain was bugged out on the last event.  The chamber was all aflame, and there was a lone minor elemental continually respawning in the corner, but the Champ elemental was nowhere to be found. :P

I agree that we should be just playing the game, and dailies should come naturally.  Some days they do for me.  I started a new toon after the daily changes, and at first I couldn't understand while people were fussing.  I'm guessing that's because the low level areas have a good density of most of the things you need for the dailies.  As I've entered mid-level zones, however, I never know whether I'm going to get the dailies done by "just playing" or not.  That leaves me with three choices.

1) Watch the clock the whole time I play, so I can make sure to get to those easy daily areas before I have to log off if I dont' manage to get them done "just playing"
2) Get the dailies out of the way first on a parked alt or by jumping around on my main, which means the first portion of my game session feels like a chore that I have to get done before I get to "just play".
3) Ignore the dailies completely, knowing I'll eventually want to grind them out after I hit level cap.

#702 Volkon

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

View Postzwei2stein, on 20 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Wanna talk benefits?

Lets talk MF.

20% MF from utility infusion is motra than MF from complete Travelers set.

Compare

a) Full zerker equip with MF infused ascended zerker piece

and

B) Full traveller equip with exotic zerker piece.

Notice how you could switch from power being minor stat to major stat and add critical damage on top of that along with other stats gains and MF gain?

You gain 91 power, 2 MF, 16% crit damage which infusion slot is equivalent of and of course get basic ascended 11 power, 6 precision and 1% crit.

You might thik that you would losse mf at cost of better combat stats, but it turns out that you can gain combat stats out of this as well as some mf.

Those 102 power / 17% crit / 6 precision / 2 mf as more than enough stats to cove stat budget of any one exotic item slot - it rounds to 400 stat point budget (crit damage is fairly expensive). Exotic L80 Accesory with Exotic jewel has budget of 191 points.

Basically, infusion slot can give you enough stats to leave your earrings unequipped and still come on top of with quite superior dps and mf over full exotic mfer.

But of course you are free to routinelly ignore the most powerfull thing about ascended gear: amulet utility slot.
Sorry.. I was doing an apples to apples stats comparison... berserkers amulet to comparable ascended amulet. The utility stuff is fluff and nothing more. It doesn't help me lay waste to invaders in WvW or drop PvE mobs any quicker.

Edited by Volkon, 20 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.


#703 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Except it does thanks to a thing called psychologically. If you think gear is what makes all the difference thats what you're going to focus on. If you think player skill trumps gear thats what you're going to focus on to get the edge you desire. That in turn will lead to better tactics and better builds because you'll try to improve it.

That's a false dichotomy.  Someone seeking to get the edge will want to both maximize their build/skill and equip BiS gear.

View PostXPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Sure, what you say is true except all of it is all player choice rather then something the game is forcing on you.

No, no one is "forced" to do the dailies.

But how they are presented and implemented does change how they make the game feel.

I'm very much a play as you go kind of player.  It took me several months to get my first level 80 toon, and I tend to bounce around to whatever is fun at the moment.  I don't seek maximum efficiency.

As you suggested, I've tried playing whatever I happen to be doing on a given day, which is usually exploring through a zone on my mid-level Ele, which is my current main.  I have a fixed play time, though, and if I don't do the dailies first (making them a chore) then I am always aware of the end of my session approaching, and needing to make sure and complete them before I have to log off, which makes them feel like a chore, anyway.

Based on what ANet has said they want for the game, this doesn't seem like it's working as intended.

#704 Swarfega

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:16 PM

How about this.  I think this could work better...

You need 100 points to complete the daily requirement.  Performing each of the following below count's towards the daily achievement...

Kills +1
Gathering +1
Variety kill +1
Healer +2
Events +2
Under water kill +1 on top of the "kills" so would be worth 2 points
Vet kills +2
Elite +4
Champion +8
Legendary +16
Epic +25
Dodge +2
Combo +5
Salvage +1

Etc etc.  Will need items for WvW or PvP.  Neither of which I play so can't comment. Numbers above will need adjusting, but you can see what I am getting at.

This way you wouldn't need to grind one item.  You will get the achievement as you play normally.

#705 Volkon

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

View PostSwarfega, on 20 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

How about this.  I think this could work better...

You need 100 points to complete the daily requirement.  Performing each of the following below count's towards the daily achievement...

Kills +1
Gathering +1
Variety kill +1
Healer +2
Events +2
Under water kill +1 on top of the "kills" so would be worth 2 points
Vet kills +2
Elite +4
Champion +8
Legendary +16
Epic +25
Dodge +2
Combo +5
Salvage +1

Etc etc.  Will need items for WvW or PvP.  Neither of which I play so can't comment. Numbers above will need adjusting, but you can see what I am getting at.

This way you wouldn't need to grind one item.  You will get the achievement as you play normally.

There's already going to be something somewhat similar soon as it is with the "choose 5 of 9" method they'll be introducing for the daily. Basically from a list of 9 objectives you'll need to complete five of them to get credit. If you complete more you'll get extra rewards as well.

Of course, the entitled crowd is likely to start whining that they're not getting rewarded for doing all nine when they only have time to do five of nine, but that's a topic for a different thread.

Edited by Volkon, 20 February 2013 - 03:20 PM.


#706 Swarfega

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:27 PM

It will be a case of choosing the 5 most easiest every day though.  Certainly for me.  Another instance where ANet needs to look outside it's walls.

#707 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:30 PM

I keep wondering if they're going to make us "choose" ahead of time, or just by completing them.

When you log on, will you have to "accept" the five you want, then go complete them, or will all nine just start tallying as you play, and when the fifth hits 100% you get your popup with karma jug and laurel?

I'd expect the latter, but something about they way they stress "choose" when they post makes me worry it will be the former.

Wish they could have just waited a month and released the "new and improved" dailies as a whole package, instead of giving it to us piecemeal.  That was supposed to be the lesson they learned from releasing Ascended gear in only one part of the game.

Edited by Kymeric, 20 February 2013 - 03:31 PM.


#708 Lordkrall

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostKymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I keep wondering if they're going to make us "choose" ahead of time, or just by completing them.

When you log on, will you have to "accept" the five you want, then go complete them, or will all nine just start tallying as you play, and when the fifth hits 100% you get your popup with karma jug and laurel?

I'd expect the latter, but something about they way they stress "choose" when they post makes me worry it will be the former.

Wish they could have just waited a month and released the "new and improved" dailies as a whole package, instead of giving it to us piecemeal.  That was supposed to be the lesson they learned from releasing Ascended gear in only one part of the game.

I believe they did say something about it being possible to complete all 9 for extra points. So most likely it will simply be a list of 9 (or whatever number they choose) but you only need to complete 5 for you to get credit for your daily.

#709 astromarmot

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I believe they did say something about it being possible to complete all 9 for extra points. So most likely it will simply be a list of 9 (or whatever number they choose) but you only need to complete 5 for you to get credit for your daily.

That's the same impression I got from it...

#710 XPhiler

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostKymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Then again, you can spend 2 hours in a mid-level zone during low population times roaming, doing hearts, vistas and skillpoints, and only find your fifth DE fifteen minutes before logging off.  This happened to me today in Blazeridge Steppes, and I only got 5 in those two hours because two of the events were near each other, and the first one respawned while I was doing the second.

I've "played the game" for an hour and a half and not found 5 DEs, even though I'm constantly moving into new, unexplored areas.

I haven't had any problem finding veterans up until today, but in spite of clearing a good chunk of Blazeridge, I encountered none.  I had to pop over to Gendarran fields where I know there are a lot of Veteran Oakhearts wandering around close together in order to cross that off the list.

I parked an alt at the Thaumanova Reactor, since the content there can satisfy a lot of dailies, just in case I'm having this kind of trouble.  Unfortunately, I hopped over to her this morning and found that the Reactor chain was bugged out on the last event.  The chamber was all aflame, and there was a lone minor elemental continually respawning in the corner, but the Champ elemental was nowhere to be found. :P

I agree that we should be just playing the game, and dailies should come naturally.  Some days they do for me.  I started a new toon after the daily changes, and at first I couldn't understand while people were fussing.  I'm guessing that's because the low level areas have a good density of most of the things you need for the dailies.  As I've entered mid-level zones, however, I never know whether I'm going to get the dailies done by "just playing" or not.  That leaves me with three choices.

1) Watch the clock the whole time I play, so I can make sure to get to those easy daily areas before I have to log off if I dont' manage to get them done "just playing"
2) Get the dailies out of the way first on a parked alt or by jumping around on my main, which means the first portion of my game session feels like a chore that I have to get done before I get to "just play".
3) Ignore the dailies completely, knowing I'll eventually want to grind them out after I hit level cap.

With regards veterans you're absolutely right. Unfortunately they are indeed scarce in some zones but not others. You're correct there not gonna defend that point at all.

I personally would choose 1 (well do choose 1) with the exception of watching the clock. When its time to stop playing provided dailies are not done yet it rare if ever requires more then 5 minutes to wrap it all up. Worst case scenario you miss one daily its not a big deal much better then not enjoying the time I do play in my opinion.

#711 Mura

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:59 PM

In order to not get frustrated with daily achievements, you've got to remember why you're doing them in the first place.  I want a legendary.  I know the karma jugs, mystic coins, and laurels I receive from the daily achievement will get me closer to that goal.

One nice side effect is that as I'm working on world completion, I actually take part in the dynamic events I come across.  I used to blow those off.  Now I'm joining other players to accomplish a goal, and I think we can all recognize that it's more interesting doing a dynamic event when there's other people there.

Edited by Mura, 20 February 2013 - 03:59 PM.


#712 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

View PostSwarfega, on 20 February 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

How about this.  I think this could work better...

You need 100 points to complete the daily requirement.  Performing each of the following below count's towards the daily achievement...

Kills +1
Gathering +1
Variety kill +1
Healer +2
Events +2
Under water kill +1 on top of the "kills" so would be worth 2 points
Vet kills +2
Elite +4
Champion +8
Legendary +16
Epic +25
Dodge +2
Combo +5
Salvage +1

Etc etc.  Will need items for WvW or PvP.  Neither of which I play so can't comment. Numbers above will need adjusting, but you can see what I am getting at.

This way you wouldn't need to grind one item.  You will get the achievement as you play normally.


To this day, this remains my favourite idea on how to rework dailies.

#713 XPhiler

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostKymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

That's a false dichotomy.  Someone seeking to get the edge will want to both maximize their build/skill and equip BiS gear.



No, no one is "forced" to do the dailies.

But how they are presented and implemented does change how they make the game feel.

I'm very much a play as you go kind of player.  It took me several months to get my first level 80 toon, and I tend to bounce around to whatever is fun at the moment.  I don't seek maximum efficiency.

As you suggested, I've tried playing whatever I happen to be doing on a given day, which is usually exploring through a zone on my mid-level Ele, which is my current main.  I have a fixed play time, though, and if I don't do the dailies first (making them a chore) then I am always aware of the end of my session approaching, and needing to make sure and complete them before I have to log off, which makes them feel like a chore, anyway.

Based on what ANet has said they want for the game, this doesn't seem like it's working as intended.

It isnt false dichotomy because most people from what I am seeing just dont believe the game is skill based at all. You find lots of posts with comments such as combat boils down to hitting 1 etc..  Not only that but if your fixed on the notion that stats are what matter you'll relax once you get those stats.

How long does it take you to finish them off?

And what did Arenanet say exactly that promised Dailies can be finished by playing what you usually play and not a single thing else ? Cause as far as I know based on this blog post what they said was:
source: http://www.arena.net...elopment-update
"They are very easy to accomplish, and players are expected to complete them in a short period of time"
"casual players should finish a high percentage of them in an average play session."

They never said dailies will be completed in an average play session but rather a high percentage of them. Yet it happens quite often that the whole daily achievement is completed in a 2 hour session and if not its generally just a few things that need ironing out.

View PostLordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I believe they did say something about it being possible to complete all 9 for extra points. So most likely it will simply be a list of 9 (or whatever number they choose) but you only need to complete 5 for you to get credit for your daily.

Yes thats how I understood it as well

#714 Gli

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

View PostVolkon, on 20 February 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Sorry.. I was doing an apples to apples stats comparison... berserkers amulet to comparable ascended amulet. The utility stuff is fluff and nothing more. It doesn't help me lay waste to invaders in WvW or drop PvE mobs any quicker.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize this topic was restricted to only considering the things, that you, Volkon, consider important. Someone should have given advance notice so we wouldn't have wasted our time.

#715 Resolve

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Except it does thanks to a thing called psychologically. If you think gear is what makes all the difference thats what you're going to focus on. If you think player skill trumps gear thats what you're going to focus on to get the edge you desire. That in turn will lead to better tactics and better builds because you'll try to improve it.



Its been like that since day one because its absolutely true.

Well no it's not. Otherwise why did Anet separate sPvP and the rest? They just need to give WvW the same sort of setup.

And yes skill comes into it. But so do stats. It isn't one or the other lol, it's all important.

#716 Volkon

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:27 PM

View PostGli, on 20 February 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize this topic was restricted to only considering the things, that you, Volkon, consider important. Someone should have given advance notice so we wouldn't have wasted our time.

You're right, my bad. I'll make sure to let people know to limit things to relevant arguments. I humbly apologize.

#717 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostXPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

How long does it take you to finish them off?

I think that question is part of my problem.  I'm not sure how long it will take.

Toward the end of a play session, I see that I'm just not running across enough events in my area.  So I pop over to Wayfarer, because it's been my experience that they pop pretty quickly there.  Some days, that means I knock them out real quick before logging.  Other days, I run around and can't seem to locate a DE.

So I pop over to an alt parked at Thaumanova Reactor.  One day, I've cleared healer, kill variety, and the last three DEs in fifteen minutes.  Other days, the chain is bugged out and I need to figure out where else I can find several DEs quick.

Quote

And what did Arenanet say exactly that promised Dailies can be finished by playing what you usually play and not a single thing else ?

You're right, they didn't.  It'd be nice if they gave a clear explanation of their goal for Dailies.  That would give us a better chance to give feedback as to whether or not they are working as intended.  On forums, however, I've seen a range of statements made by players from, "just play normally and you'll get them done" (not always true) to "it's a mechanic for people who need progression at endgame and want to grind it out".

If you respond to the first, someone jumps in with the latter, and vice versa.

Quote

They never said dailies will be completed in an average play session but rather a high percentage of them. Yet it happens quite often that the whole daily achievement is completed in a 2 hour session and if not its generally just a few things that need ironing out.

It's entirely possible that I need to continue developing my approach to dailies.

With the old dailies, I just logged on and played, and took the last twenty minutes or so to take care of any dailies that didn't get to 100%.  With the new dailies, at first I did the same, and it worked well in low level zones.  Now I'm into mid-level zones, I find I'm taking more time and effort to go do the dailies, which makes them a much greater focus of my play session, to the point where I'm starting to feel like they are the focus of each time I log in, rather than a side dish served along with my zone exploration and leveling as the main dish.

It's possible I'll find a balance with them over time, but a significant portion of the population seems to be having a similar reaction, which leads me to wonder if that's what ANet intended.

Most likely, they didn't, which is why we are going to get 5/9 soon, and all of this can just be chalked up to them releasing half of an update rather than waiting and releasing it with all of its working parts.

View PostLordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I believe they did say something about it being possible to complete all 9 for extra points. So most likely it will simply be a list of 9 (or whatever number they choose) but you only need to complete 5 for you to get credit for your daily.

Good point.

#718 El Duderino

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

Can we all agree that the reason dailies are dumb now is because laurels and ascended gear is dumb?

If we didn't have those, then dailies wouldn't even be a concern.

#719 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 20 February 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Can we all agree that the reason dailies are dumb now is because laurels and ascended gear is dumb?

If we didn't have those, then dailies wouldn't even be a concern.


Honestly, it's not JUST the laurels and ascended gear. As mentioned above, the previous system allowed casuals to gain some extra resources with the help of dailies (XP, coins, karma) and by making dailies harder to do, we also lose out on those resources.
Personally, I think the dailies should remain focused on casuals and give (or at least help players with) power-rewards (aka vertical progression rewards, such as ascended gear or provide players with resources to obtain power-gear easier), while they incorporate a whole new system that gives the grinders something to do, but is focused STRICTLY on vanity rewards.

#720 Kymeric

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostEl Duderino, on 20 February 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

Can we all agree that the reason dailies are dumb now is because laurels and ascended gear is dumb?

If we didn't have those, then dailies wouldn't even be a concern.

It's certainly one of the reasons.

Jugs of karma were amorphous enough that I didn't worry too much about missing one in a given play session, though it was very nice to get to 80 and immediately buy 4/6 exotic armor pieces the very same day.

On my new toon, there is no karma gear with the stats I'm planning on for my 80 build.  That means gold or dungeon runs.  If I have enough laurels, it'll help get me some stats better than masterwork/rare when I hit 80.  That means I'm more focused on making sure I get my daily each day.  Grabbing an ascended amulet the day I hit 80 is just too tempting.

Eight days left in the month.  Have they said when February patch is due?




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