805 replies to this topic

[Lordkrall]

Kymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Eight days left in the month.  Have they said when February patch is due?

On Tuesday.
https://www.guildwar.../february-2013/

[Kymeric]

Lordkrall, on 20 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

On Tuesday.
https://www.guildwar.../february-2013/

Ah, thanks.  Kept seeing the Flame and Frost post on the forums and thinking it was the same one from last months introduction. Guess we've got six days before this thread is obsolete, then.

It's the wording of this paragraph:

Quote

With our new selectable achievement system, you’ll have a chance to set new daily challenges for yourself and to choose what kind of content you want to be rewarded for playing.

That keeps making me worried we're going to somehow have to decide which dailies we want to do before doing them.

Edited by Kymeric, 20 February 2013 - 09:54 PM.

[tfckmk988]

if you look up the interview done recently in the new section of this forum you will see the dev talked about a 5/9 (numbers could change) system where you have to do a certain number of the available dailys to get the reward but can pick and choose which ones they are put not ahead of time although they haven't said that explicitly

[Kymeric]

tfckmk988, on 20 February 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

if you look up the interview done recently in the new section of this forum you will see the dev talked about a 5/9 (numbers could change) system where you have to do a certain number of the available dailys to get the reward but can pick and choose which ones they are put not ahead of time although they haven't said that explicitly

Yeah, I get that.  It's the most intuitive interpretation, but sometimes developers can make very unintuitive choices.  I tend to wonder when I see an awkwardly worded statement from ANet if it is due to talking around something the players aren't expecting.

I'm not losing sleep over it by any means, it just makes me scratch my head a little.

[XPhiler]

Resolve, on 20 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Well no it's not. Otherwise why did Anet separate sPvP and the rest? They just need to give WvW the same sort of setup.

And yes skill comes into it. But so do stats. It isn't one or the other lol, it's all important.

Sorry must have missed the part where I said stats dont factor in at all. Oh wait no I just never said that!. Clarification I only said improvement / success in a fight isnt just based on stats its also based on player skill. I also only said that if you go in the game with the mentality that stats are the most important thing (and in my book thinking that missing a single daily is unacceptable certainly qualifies for that) you're going to psychologically condition yourself in a disadvantage! why? because if you're lacking this one item when going into a WvW fight you'll be afraid that you#re going to loose because you're still not at your peak efficiency. Do Ascended provide an advantage? most certainly but that advantage at best will translate to wining using 1 less attack or being able to take an extra attack if at all. On top of that it will only matter when you're in a one on one fight but that hardly ever happens in WvW. And on top of that still WvW isnt even about killing your opponent, its about taking and holding points which Ascended gear will play and even smaller role.

No one here is saying dont go for ascended gear, everyone should do what they enjoy doing. What we're saying here is if it takes you 2 months instead of 1, or 3 months if you even prefer, your world will not end. those 2 extra months without the amulet will not translate to 2 months were you keep dieing repeated in WvW because you cant compete. You might loose a fight or two because you dont have the amulet, sure its possible but what does it matter? is it really worth making your life a hell for 1 month trying to grind out the life out of the daily just to save 4s?

[XPhiler]

Kymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

I think that question is part of my problem.  I'm not sure how long it will take.

Toward the end of a play session, I see that I'm just not running across enough events in my area.  So I pop over to Wayfarer, because it's been my experience that they pop pretty quickly there.  Some days, that means I knock them out real quick before logging.  Other days, I run around and can't seem to locate a DE.

So I pop over to an alt parked at Thaumanova Reactor.  One day, I've cleared healer, kill variety, and the last three DEs in fifteen minutes.  Other days, the chain is bugged out and I need to figure out where else I can find several DEs quick.



You're right, they didn't.  It'd be nice if they gave a clear explanation of their goal for Dailies.  That would give us a better chance to give feedback as to whether or not they are working as intended.  On forums, however, I've seen a range of statements made by players from, "just play normally and you'll get them done" (not always true) to "it's a mechanic for people who need progression at endgame and want to grind it out".

If you respond to the first, someone jumps in with the latter, and vice versa.



It's entirely possible that I need to continue developing my approach to dailies.

With the old dailies, I just logged on and played, and took the last twenty minutes or so to take care of any dailies that didn't get to 100%.  With the new dailies, at first I did the same, and it worked well in low level zones.  Now I'm into mid-level zones, I find I'm taking more time and effort to go do the dailies, which makes them a much greater focus of my play session, to the point where I'm starting to feel like they are the focus of each time I log in, rather than a side dish served along with my zone exploration and leveling as the main dish.

It's possible I'll find a balance with them over time, but a significant portion of the population seems to be having a similar reaction, which leads me to wonder if that's what ANet intended.

Most likely, they didn't, which is why we are going to get 5/9 soon, and all of this can just be chalked up to them releasing half of an update rather than waiting and releasing it with all of its working parts.



Good point.

I agree that sometimes you get a bad day. Happens to everyone everywhere. Is it really a problem if your time is up you have to go you just dont find what you need to finish it and for that day you dont finish the daily? as long as it doesnt happen often and at least in my experience it certainly doesnt I dont think its a big deal.

I personally think the dailies serve two purposes. 1 is to serve as an incentive for people to log in daily of course. 2. to get people to engage in varied gameplay. I think we will not disagree on statement 1 so let me just elaborate on 2. There are multiple reasons why I believe they're trying to use the dailies to get people to do varied things / visit variety of places.  The top reason is the aquatic combat. I think a lot of people avoid that and I would definitely rank that as the top item of what you generally dont finish off in a regular playing session. That being said people who stay away from underwater miss out a lot. there are vendors, hidden areas and jumping puzzles you can get to underwater. And once you get the hang of it underwater combat isnt that bad imho. The thesis is further supported by what they intended to do with the new dailies. now that some are optional they said they'll gonna have dailies that require players to go to specific zones. This wouldnt be needed unless you wanted to introduce variety and increase population in certain zones. The crafting daily. Its not challenging, it takes literally 5 seconds to complete so what other purpose could it possibly have if not to entice people who avoid it to try it out hoping that some might like it and stick with it? To be honest it even had an effect on me. I am currently starting a new alt. He's level 15 currently in None of my previous characters did I ever bother to craft weapons / armor at such a low level but thanks to the daily I am doing it now. Why waste the activity?

I wouldnt consider this 1/2 an update personally. Its an iterated approach. I know not everyone will agree with me but the new dailies for me are better then the old. They include variety and did expand my game play to a degree. The current list of dialies was also tailored for the you have to do all dailies approach. IE they didnt provide a list of dailies that Anet expected some people will be able to skip before the abiltiy to skip was introduced in the game. That was always intended for the next step and the dailies should now be changing again taking this new functionality in consideration. The list of dailies for this next improvement should be more specific such as even having dailies that require players to go to specific zones. The game is in constant evolution just cause they improve a mechanic it doesnt necessary mean the mechanic was released before it was ready but rather then it was released when it could have been improved further and thats true for every mechanic in every game ever.

If you're finding trouble with mid-level zones my suggestion would be park an alt in a low level zone in an area where its possible to finish the daily quickly such as Thaumanova Reactor in metrica or the curtis ranch area in Queensdale. Maybe park 2 alts in each location. You might not need to use them but if you want to just finish it off I bet 99% of them time in either one of those locations you can close it off in less then 5 mins.

[raspberry jam]

XPhiler, on 20 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Except it does thanks to a thing called psychologically. If you think gear is what makes all the difference thats what you're going to focus on. If you think player skill trumps gear thats what you're going to focus on to get the edge you desire. That in turn will lead to better tactics and better builds because you'll try to improve it.

Except that what you say is irrelevant. Using the same tactics with better gear improves the clearing time. Improving your tactics can be done regardless of whether or not you get better gear, so doing both would be the best, but that still means that I'm right.

[XPhiler]

Kymeric, on 20 February 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

It's the wording of this paragraph:



That keeps making me worried we're going to somehow have to decide which dailies we want to do before doing them.

Pretty sure thats not the case. I tried to find the quote for you but unfortunately I failed but am certain in some interview, I believe Colin said that it will be possible to keep going after getting the daily achievement done and finish of the rest and you'll be rewarded with achievement points for finishing them off. That would not be possible if you had to choose the achievements before you start them. Its more likely it will be a list of 9 achievements and the moment you finish 6 you're rewarded with the daily.

[XPhiler]

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Except that what you say is irrelevant. Using the same tactics with better gear improves the clearing time. Improving your tactics can be done regardless of whether or not you get better gear, so doing both would be the best, but that still means that I'm right.

Doing both would be best, 100% agree with that. Isnt that what has been suggested from day one though? I have yet to see a post that states dont get ascended gear because it has 0 impact. It isnt event entirely a psychological issue, I would say it even has practical issues as well. Let me explain. The problem comes with the urgency to get ascended gear. If you're not willing to wait 1 day beyond the minimum time required to get said ascended gear you're going to grind it. If you grind it you're going to find the easiest and quickest way to get it out of the way instead of playing the game properly. Will playing the easiest most trivial content in a repetitive manner improve your tactics / understanding of the game mechanics?

Lets take the dodging daily. Now myself I dont even consider myself a competitive player so I dont really care of being better or not then anyone else yet if I am doing the dodging daily I try to be productive about it. I just pick a new mob each time and practice on them. Now yes I agree most of the time you can avoid dodging all together, not arguing against that but sometimes you do end up in a tricky situation and you need to dodge. Knowing the animation / attack timing will help. A competitive player in my opinion should be finishing his/her daily in WvW  learning the various animations of the various attacks of different classes. IS that what happens though? I dont know so far havent even seen a single person suggest that, I have seen plenty of posts on how the dodging daily is useless and how to get it over with quickly. The ironic thing is a single dodge especially on a particularly damaging skill will offer a benefit to a fight that far FAR and I do mean FAR outweighs what the extra stats of an ascended amulet give over exotic.

[raspberry jam]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Doing both would be best, 100% agree with that. Isnt that what has been suggested from day one though? I have yet to see a post that states dont get ascended gear because it has 0 impact. It isnt event entirely a psychological issue, I would say it even has practical issues as well. Let me explain. The problem comes with the urgency to get ascended gear. If you're not willing to wait 1 day beyond the minimum time required to get said ascended gear you're going to grind it. If you grind it you're going to find the easiest and quickest way to get it out of the way instead of playing the game properly. Will playing the easiest most trivial content in a repetitive manner improve your tactics / understanding of the game mechanics?

Lets take the dodging daily. Now myself I dont even consider myself a competitive player so I dont really care of being better or not then anyone else yet if I am doing the dodging daily I try to be productive about it. I just pick a new mob each time and practice on them. Now yes I agree most of the time you can avoid dodging all together, not arguing against that but sometimes you do end up in a tricky situation and you need to dodge. Knowing the animation / attack timing will help. A competitive player in my opinion should be finishing his/her daily in WvW  learning the various animations of the various attacks of different classes. IS that what happens though? I dont know so far havent even seen a single person suggest that, I have seen plenty of posts on how the dodging daily is useless and how to get it over with quickly. The ironic thing is a single dodge especially on a particularly damaging skill will offer a benefit to a fight that far FAR and I do mean FAR outweighs what the extra stats of an ascended amulet give over exotic.

No, you misunderstand entirely.

[XPhiler]

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

No, you misunderstand entirely.

perhaps I misunderstood entirely that doesn't change the fact nothing of what I said is untrue though.

Edited by XPhiler, 21 February 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Resolve]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

You might loose a fight or two because you dont have the amulet, sure its possible but what does it matter? is it really worth making your life a hell for 1 month trying to grind out the life out of the daily just to save 4s?

Haha ok sure.

[raspberry jam]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

perhaps I misunderstood entirely that doesn't change the fact nothing of what I said is untrue though.

Even if your post was entirely true and meaningful instead of tautological ramblings, false implications and more than the usual dose of insanely bad grammar, it would be off topic to the discussion.

The fault of dailies never had anything to do with what you are talking about. It is instead about rewarding people for logging in every day.

Edited by raspberry jam, 21 February 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Kymeric]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

I agree that sometimes you get a bad day. Happens to everyone everywhere. Is it really a problem if your time is up you have to go you just dont find what you need to finish it and for that day you dont finish the daily? as long as it doesnt happen often and at least in my experience it certainly doesnt I dont think its a big deal.

You're probably right there, and it's a matter of deciding not to sweat the dailies.  They are close, however, to "get them while you play normally".  Close enough that when I do miss them, it's because I have everything but two DEs that I can't seem to find.  That makes it harder to just say, "oh well, maybe tomorrow" than if they were only half done.

Quote

I personally think the dailies serve two purposes. 1 is to serve as an incentive for people to log in daily of course. 2. to get people to engage in varied gameplay. I think we will not disagree on statement 1 so let me just elaborate on 2.

Makes sense, though underwater (while a little annoying due to the number of creatures that need to be killed) is one of the easier for me.  It's not hard to find some water near wherever you are playing and jump in and kill creatures.  It's DEs, Vets, and Healer that make me have to go looking for a spot to take care of them.

Quote

I wouldnt consider this 1/2 an update personally. Its an iterated approach.

I'm not sure you can really call this iteration.  They knew they were going to do 5/9 before they introduced the recent, rotating daily list.  Iteration would mean trying something, seeing how it works, then adjusting.

Quote

If you're finding trouble with mid-level zones my suggestion would be park an alt in a low level zone in an area where its possible to finish the daily quickly such as Thaumanova Reactor in metrica or the curtis ranch area in Queensdale. Maybe park 2 alts in each location. You might not need to use them but if you want to just finish it off I bet 99% of them time in either one of those locations you can close it off in less then 5 mins.

Yeah, probably need to distribute all four alts in prime spots.  Had trouble with the Reactor being bugged yesterday, so my backup plan failed.  Got today's done with no problem except Healer, and was glad to have a character parked at the Reactor.

The problem is that doing this kind of thing takes the game from an immersive experience to a chore list that needs to get done.

We'll see what Tuesday's update brings.

[Volkon]

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Except that what you say is irrelevant. Using the same tactics with better gear improves the clearing time. Improving your tactics can be done regardless of whether or not you get better gear, so doing both would be the best, but that still means that I'm right.

That's not entirely accurate either. That would only be true if the increase in stats was enough to reduce the number of attacks needed to clear the mob, but that's not a safe assumption to make. If a mob has 1000 health left and you hit it for 2000 or for 2010 damage it's still going to die in the same number of hits. The increase is negligible enough that it'll actually be a rare occasion when you require less hits to kill the mob.

[XPhiler]

Resolve, on 21 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Haha ok sure.

Then what? what effect do you imagine that ascend amulet will have on you WvW experiance?

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Even if your post was entirely true and meaningful instead of tautological ramblings, false implications and more than the usual dose of insanely bad grammar, it would be off topic to the discussion.

The fault of dailies never had anything to do with what you are talking about. It is instead about rewarding people for logging in every day.

Okey I see we're at the usual point of I cannot attack the argument so lets attack the person again.

Edited by XPhiler, 21 February 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[XPhiler]

Kymeric, on 21 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

You're probably right there, and it's a matter of deciding not to sweat the dailies.  They are close, however, to "get them while you play normally".  Close enough that when I do miss them, it's because I have everything but two DEs that I can't seem to find.  That makes it harder to just say, "oh well, maybe tomorrow" than if they were only half done.



Makes sense, though underwater (while a little annoying due to the number of creatures that need to be killed) is one of the easier for me.  It's not hard to find some water near wherever you are playing and jump in and kill creatures.  It's DEs, Vets, and Healer that make me have to go looking for a spot to take care of them.



I'm not sure you can really call this iteration.  They knew they were going to do 5/9 before they introduced the recent, rotating daily list.  Iteration would mean trying something, seeing how it works, then adjusting.



Yeah, probably need to distribute all four alts in prime spots.  Had trouble with the Reactor being bugged yesterday, so my backup plan failed.  Got today's done with no problem except Healer, and was glad to have a character parked at the Reactor.

The problem is that doing this kind of thing takes the game from an immersive experience to a chore list that needs to get done.

We'll see what Tuesday's update brings.

It still is an iteration, iteration isnt used just in design. If you take a popular iteration development method such as scrum for example the methodology is to primarily meet deadlines and quality with the caveat of sacrificing features. Development is spread in what is called a sprints that are 1 - 4 weeks long generally its up to you really. In this case Iteration one was what got and iteration two was the extra features that couldnt be completed in previous sprint because there just wasnt enough time. They could have held it off till this month but what advantage would that bring?

Finish off a daily is definitely a chore no doubt about that. Its a conscious choice that its preferable to play 5 minutes or however long you need to finish off the daily then to miss the daily all together. Lets be realistic here you cannot have everything in life. This is just a way so you dont loose everything just because you're out of time. At least you get the choice, if you're in the middle of a dungeon and your play time runs out there is nothing you can do but loose all the progress you made that far. At least in this case you can sacrifice a little fun to get the reward rather then loose all the progress. Personally I think this is a good think although not ideal.

[Volkon]

raspberry jam, on 20 February 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

As the game keeps expanding the gap will expand too step by step until it's noticeable for anyone who didn't keep up.

Just had an interesting thought on the numbers regarding this... at the rate stats are increasing, even with full ascended gear the difference in stats will be less than that you get from a food buff.

[raspberry jam]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Okey I see we're at the usual point of I cannot attack the argument so lets attack the person again.

I apologize, I didn't mean to attack you personally. If you feel that I did I'm sorry for that.
What I meant to say was that yes, some of the things you say are true, but irrelevant to the argument at this point.

Volkon, on 21 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

That's not entirely accurate either. That would only be true if the increase in stats was enough to reduce the number of attacks needed to clear the mob, but that's not a safe assumption to make. If a mob has 1000 health left and you hit it for 2000 or for 2010 damage it's still going to die in the same number of hits. The increase is negligible enough that it'll actually be a rare occasion when you require less hits to kill the mob.

If it is a 10% chance to kill the mob in one less hits, say 5% chance to kill the mob in two less hits, and 3% chance to kill the mob in three less hits, ignoring other increases, that is a reduction of 29 hits on 100 mobs. I'd take that easily.

Volkon, on 21 February 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Just had an interesting thought on the numbers regarding this... at the rate stats are increasing, even with full ascended gear the difference in stats will be less than that you get from a food buff.

Are you implying that someone who gets better gear for some reason would stop using food? How about no lol, so that is not relevant.

[FoxBat]

Volkon, on 21 February 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Just had an interesting thought on the numbers regarding this... at the rate stats are increasing, even with full ascended gear the difference in stats will be less than that you get from a food buff.

Unless you are talking about the less comprable things like life steal or condi duration, rings + amulet are already a primary stat difference of 108. The foods generally max around 100.

Edited by FoxBat, 21 February 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Kymeric]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

They could have held it off till this month but what advantage would that bring?

We had a serviceable car.

They designed a sporty new one.  Unfortunately, the shock absorbers weren't ready yet, but they decided to take the serviceable car and give us the sporty one.  So we get a bit of a bumpy month while waiting for the rest of the vehicle to be complete.

I didn't mind the serviceable car all that much.

Quote

Lets be realistic here you cannot have everything in life.

Sure.  For example, I don't have any intention to work for a Legendary.  Clearly they are there so that people who play much more than me can have an optional grind.  I'm good with that.

Dailies, however, don't feel right.

It occurs to me that this discussion goes round and round partly because it just comes down to preference.

The chicken mole is too spicy for my taste.  I'd prefer it toned down.  Someone could point out that if I only take a bite or two, it won't burn that much.  They could also point out that there are plenty of other things on the menu to choose from, so I could just avoid the chicken mole altogether.  And yes, those are both options.  Still doesn't change that I find the chicken mole too spicy, and I'd like the chef to offer a milder version.

Happily, the chef appears to be ready to accommodate me by putting the milder mole on the menu, with the option to add extra spice for those of you who like things hot.

[XPhiler]

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

I apologize, I didn't mean to attack you personally. If you feel that I did I'm sorry for that.
What I meant to say was that yes, some of the things you say are true, but irrelevant to the argument at this point.

If it is a 10% chance to kill the mob in one less hits, say 5% chance to kill the mob in two less hits, and 3% chance to kill the mob in three less hits, ignoring other increases, that is a reduction of 29 hits on 100 mobs. I'd take that easily.

Are you implying that someone who gets better gear for some reason would stop using food? How about no lol, so that is not relevant.

The advantage is actually 5% not 10% (stats from gear account for 1/2 your stats not all your stats). Technically even less then that since damage increase isnt linear. Lets also not forget there are just 4 pieces out of a total of 12 available right now so what we're discussing right now isnt even a full 5% advantage but just a 1.7% advantage.

Yes obviously people can still take food and other consumables with ascended gear but take a look at this graph:
http://www.guildwars...e.com/item/9443
check out the demand for that item. compare it with this: http://www.guildwars....com/item/12452
Does that tell you that people care about power based consumables the same like they care about ascended gear? And like Volkon said that sharping stone alone will give you more power then any ascended gear piece and you can add food that further increases your power as well it just people dont see the need for it for some reason unlike ascended gear.

I think this need is mostly the result of conditioning from other games where gear plays a much more important role then it does in gw2

[Volkon]

FoxBat, on 21 February 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Unless you are talking about the less comprable things like life steal or condi duration, rings + amulet are already a primary stat difference of 108. The foods generally max around 100.

That much? I'm going to have to see the numbers... the amulet upgrade only nets 11 power and 6 precision. Wait wait wait... let me quit being lazy and look it up...
...
...
OK, back. The berserker flavored rings are 92 power, 63 precision and 6% crit damage. The berserker flavored ascended rings are 103 (+5 with infusion, for 108) power, 68 precision and 8% crit damage. So one ring upgrade nets... 16 power, 5 precision and 2% crit damage. So with two rings we're looking at 32 power, 10 precision and 4% crit damage. Add the ammy and we're netting a total of 43 power, 16 precision and 14% crit damage. Well, that's quite a bit less than the 108, and still less than a 1% total stat increase in the primary when compared to the exotic berserkers equivalents as an increase to the base values.

OK, I think I'll be wrong as a whole... a full exotic set will likely be more than a food buff by a small amount.

[XPhiler]

Kymeric, on 21 February 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

We had a serviceable car.

They designed a sporty new one.  Unfortunately, the shock absorbers weren't ready yet, but they decided to take the serviceable car and give us the sporty one.  So we get a bit of a bumpy month while waiting for the rest of the vehicle to be complete.

I didn't mind the serviceable car all that much.



Sure.  For example, I don't have any intention to work for a Legendary.  Clearly they are there so that people who play much more than me can have an optional grind.  I'm good with that.

Dailies, however, don't feel right.

It occurs to me that this discussion goes round and round partly because it just comes down to preference.

The chicken mole is too spicy for my taste.  I'd prefer it toned down.  Someone could point out that if I only take a bite or two, it won't burn that much.  They could also point out that there are plenty of other things on the menu to choose from, so I could just avoid the chicken mole altogether.  And yes, those are both options.  Still doesn't change that I find the chicken mole too spicy, and I'd like the chef to offer a milder version.

Happily, the chef appears to be ready to accommodate me by putting the milder mole on the menu, with the option to add extra spice for those of you who like things hot.

Like you said it boils down to preference. For you the new dailies are a sports car with bad shock absorbers for me its a perfectly good sports car thats going to get some new extras at the end of this month. Lets be realistic here, your biggest issues using your own words and I quote "It's DEs, Vets, and Healer that make me have to go looking for a spot to take care of them." so its not like the old Dailies had no issues for you either since DE were part of them too. I would also imagine you had trouble with kill variety too, thats the one that made me go finish it off the most in my case.

Volkon, on 21 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

That much? I'm going to have to see the numbers... the amulet upgrade only nets 11 power and 6 precision. Wait wait wait... let me quit being lazy and look it up...
...
...
OK, back. The berserker flavored rings are 92 power, 63 precision and 6% crit damage. The berserker flavored ascended rings are 103 (+5 with infusion, for 108) power, 68 precision and 8% crit damage. So one ring upgrade nets... 16 power, 5 precision and 2% crit damage. So with two rings we're looking at 32 power, 10 precision and 4% crit damage. Add the ammy and we're netting a total of 43 power, 16 precision and 14% crit damage. Well, that's quite a bit less than the 108, and still less than a 1% total stat increase in the primary when compared to the exotic berserkers equivalents as an increase to the base values.

OK, I think I'll be wrong as a whole... a full exotic set will likely be more than a food buff by a small amount.

Dont forget consumables, food buff is not the only thing that increase power and it stacks with food. I am talking of things like:
http://wiki.guildwar...Maintenance_Oil
http://wiki.guildwar..._Undead_Slaying
http://wiki.guildwar...harpening_Stone
http://wiki.guildwar..._Tuning_Crystal

[Volkon]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Like you said it boils down to preference. For you the new dailies are a sports car with bad shock absorbers for me its a perfectly good sports car thats going to get some new extras at the end of this month. Lets be realistic here, your biggest issues using your own words and I quote "It's DEs, Vets, and Healer that make me have to go looking for a spot to take care of them." so its not like the old Dailies had no issues for you either since DE were part of them too. I would also imagine you had trouble with kill variety too, thats the one that made me go finish it off the most in my case.



Dont forget consumables, food buff is not the only thing that increase power and it stacks with food. I am talking of things like:
http://wiki.guildwar...Maintenance_Oil
http://wiki.guildwar..._Undead_Slaying
http://wiki.guildwar...harpening_Stone
http://wiki.guildwar..._Tuning_Crystal

Good point... stacked consumables will more than make up the difference.

Now, the fact remains that both parties can use them. Let's make the assumption that they both do. Player A with full ascended will have a net stat increase due to ascended gear of between 1% and 2% at this pace over player B in full exotics. Now we see we're actually still relying on skill. Why? One well-timed dodge by player B can mitigate the apparent damage benefit player A would have had. Better use and choice of utility skills will come into play. Traits will come into play.

When you look at it, ANet is doing this brilliantly. They've convinced people that need to see progression that there's real power progression there, but the actual math proves that it's so marginal as to be relatively meaningless.

[raspberry jam]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

The advantage is actually 5% not 10% (stats from gear account for 1/2 your stats not all your stats). Technically even less then that since damage increase isnt linear. Lets also not forget there are just 4 pieces out of a total of 12 available right now so what we're discussing right now isnt even a full 5% advantage but just a 1.7% advantage.

Yes obviously people can still take food and other consumables with ascended gear but take a look at this graph:
http://www.guildwars...e.com/item/9443
check out the demand for that item. compare it with this: http://www.guildwars....com/item/12452
Does that tell you that people care about power based consumables the same like they care about ascended gear? And like Volkon said that sharping stone alone will give you more power then any ascended gear piece and you can add food that further increases your power as well it just people dont see the need for it for some reason unlike ascended gear.

I think this need is mostly the result of conditioning from other games where gear plays a much more important role then it does in gw2

Not a 10% advantage, but a 10% chance to kill with one less hit than the usual average.

No, it is because gear can be obtained once and then you have it forever, while food and other consumables are spent when used.

Volkon, on 21 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

One well-timed dodge by player B can mitigate the apparent damage benefit player A would have had. Better use and choice of utility skills will come into play. Traits will come into play.

But given that A and B are traited equally and are equally skilled, player A will still have an advantage (29 hits on 100 mobs is significant), on average.

[Volkon]

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not a 10% advantage, but a 10% chance to kill with one less hit than the usual average.

No, it is because gear can be obtained once and then you have it forever, while food and other consumables are spent when used.

But given that A and B are traited equally and are equally skilled, player A will still have an advantage (29 hits on 100 mobs is significant), on average.

Where are you making up these "29 hits" numbers from anyhow? Unless you're talking about high hit point mobs (Veterans on up) odds are that you'll get much closer to "0" extra hits.

[Kymeric]

XPhiler, on 21 February 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Lets be realistic here, your biggest issues using your own words and I quote "It's DEs, Vets, and Healer that make me have to go looking for a spot to take care of them." so its not like the old Dailies had no issues for you either since DE were part of them too. I would also imagine you had trouble with kill variety too, thats the one that made me go finish it off the most in my case.

I never had a problem with kill variety until I hit 80 and started running around Orr.  I tend to move over enough of a zone while exploring that I pick up kill variety by an hour or so.

No vets and healer on the old, so that leaves the DEs.  Yes, there were times where I still had DEs left with the old, but that's only one part of what adds up to making the new dailies chafe.  I posted it way earlier in this thread (I don't expect anyone to have read every post), but there are a couple of other things besides the specific items on the list that make the new dailies feel like they are taking up more psychic space, so to speak, in my play session.

One is just having them listed there in the corner of the screen all the time.  It's a little thing, but it does make them more present.

Another is the nature of the rewards.  Old dailies were just one (albeit a good one) source of Karma, and the jugs just felt like one more currency that accumulates and I might spend some day.  Laurels, however, feel more concrete and enticing to me.  Do the daily every game session and I'll be able to add an ascended amulet to my gear the day I hit 80.  That's pretty sweet.

Those two things, combined with the hassle of doing some of the list, depending on where you are playing, add up to a much stronger presence for dailies in each play session.  The went from a side thing to a central focus in how the feel to me.

[astromarmot]

Kymeric, on 21 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

One is just having them listed there in the corner of the screen all the time.  It's a little thing, but it does make them more present.

I really wish there was a way to get rid of that...besides a Post-it note...

Edited by astromarmot, 21 February 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Resolve]

raspberry jam, on 21 February 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

But given that A and B are traited equally and are equally skilled, player A will still have an advantage (29 hits on 100 mobs is significant), on average.

Yeah, it's not a hard concept to understand. Honestly I don't think it's worth the time trying to explain it to these guys. They are never going to change their stance.