50 replies to this topic

[Red_Falcon]

Seriously I pvp a ton on many chars but my Warrior is just a desperate case of "class abandoned to itself".

Let's see what we have.

Worst gap closers:
Rush and Bull can fail by design. They can be avoided by walking, not even dodging.
Sometimes they fail even against standing people.
No fix has come yet, doubt we'll ever see one.
Bolas is too slow, you don't even need to dodge it just moving avoids it.
Sword leap is the only one that sort of comes close to what other classes have - too bad it sits on the most UP of Warrior weapons; how many of you get sword mainhand on a secondary set just for the leap? This should not be acceptable.

Worst elite:
Most classes have built-in swiftness of some sort or utility-based swiftness.
Warrior needs to bust, wair for it... AN ELITE.... AND it's not even enough!
You also need to get +swift duration / boon duration for it to cover the uptime.

Worst profession skills:
Earthshaker is bugged and sometimes fails even if you land on one's head.
Eviscerate used to be good, now it's easy to fail as the built-in gap closer is almost impairing the land rate of the skill - not to mention that if it doesn't crit it's joke damage.
Arcing slice? Possibly worst profession skill in the game.
Killshot, make sure the target is not aware of you else don't even try.

Zero ways to disengage:
Yes that's it. There is no way you're escaping anyone with a brain on a Warrior, once your worst-than-anyone-else's death-delaying tools are gone, you're dead.
We don't even have a guaranteed way to avoid a stake like most classes.

But Warriors have, ah yes, the DOMOGES.
Except that Warrior's damage is comparable to other classes normally, save for some bursty skills that comes with built-in flaws, that need to be setup by using... wait for it... the bugged gap closers/control mentioned earlier!
Castrated damage skills that rely on bugged gap closers.
It sounds like a good joke, except the joke is on you.

But Warriors have the "sturdy body".
3 seconds of immortality (fixed tooltips my ass, EP lasts 3s period, and tooltip still states 5) definitely defines a sturdy body... except Rangers and Eles access to much superior and longer-lasting versions of the same.
Mesmers can deny a lot more damage through clones, Guards have protection/heals, Thieves have stealth, Necros got DS+protection, even poor Engies have better ways of avoiding damage.
Of course high health pool matters zero in this game that's all about avoiding damage or dying.
Remember that guy with 3500 armor & double EP hammer making videos? He got barely the same survivability of other classes by going full defense!


And this was the "most complete class" according to Anet?
Having played all classes, Warrior is by far the most suffering and underdeveloped class to me.
Every time I return to my good old Warrior char I come away more and more disappointed, to the point I'm considering to salvage his gear.

Even my melee power Necro is miles better than the Warrior currently is; it has much, much more damage resistance, similar damage and WORKING gap closers.

Warriors are becoming more and more scarce around WvW and PvP places, and nothing is done in patches to address the issue.
A Warrior can't bunker solo, can't roam solo, can't spike solo anything with a brain, can't can't can't.


I just had to vent this because I put a lot of effort in my Warrior just to have an handicapped goat who's outclassed by everyone at anything and has a ton of BUGS on core, important skills - and nothing is ever done about it because Anet believes the Warrior is "final".

Edited by Red_Falcon, 30 January 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[zp3dd4]

Yep, this is pretty much the conclusion I have. I still try on my warrior as much as possible as he's a beast in PvE, but in sPvP or WvW I'll bring my other chars. (Unless I'm zerging, warriors are pretty good at that actually).

[The Shadow]

Everything you've written is just so true... Absolutely no one in WvW plays Warrior anymore. People that do are idiots because the class sucks absolute ass. Not to mention it's the least versatile of all the classes.

I mean really... I don't think I've seen Warriors in WvW in like forever. Has everyone re-rolled or something?

[lmaonade]

The Shadow, on 31 January 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

Everything you've written is just so true... Absolutely no one in WvW plays Warrior anymore. People that do are idiots because the class sucks absolute ass. Not to mention it's the least versatile of all the classes.

I mean really... I don't think I've seen Warriors in WvW in like forever. Has everyone re-rolled or something?

I regularly play a Warrior in WvW, I find it fun because they're naturally sturdy and have a lot of burst, I roam around alone and destroy small 1-2 man groups easily and can stalemate 3-4 man groups for a good amount of time, that's probably because the average WvWer doesn't know how to PvP correctly though, so that doesn't amount to much.

I'd have to agree with most of what OP is saying, even though I always play my warrior in WvW, the only thing warrior is good for is farming badges off squishies, they cannot participate in zergs very well since their range and AoE options suck, the only exception being the hammer, but that just means they are relegated to a control build, making them extremely lacking in versatility. They are decent at solo roaming but thieves and elementalists do it a thousand times better, and they are absolutely useless in groups, in WvW you can take any 5 man combination without a warrior and it'll be superior to any given team composition with a warrior in group combat/synergy.

I'm planning on re-rolling a mesmer for WvW since they're just so damned useful.

I haven't sPvP'd on warrior in like 3 months so I can't comment on that, but I'd imagine it suffers the same problems as it does in WvW: every role it can do well in another class can do better.

I think part of the reason why Anet doesn't want to buff/tweak warriors is that they stomp noobs too hard, back in the day in about ranks 1 to 9 ish sPvP it was easier to kill people as a warrior than a backstab thief, simply because a lot of people sucked, Killshot had like a 90% hit rate because newbies didn't know how to dodge it, or even learn to dodge for that matter, and those 10k Eviscerates really put on the hurt since no one dodged those either.

Edit: to comment on the bit about warrior being the "most complete class," it was probably true back in the day, warriors have always had the lowest skillcap of any class, it was easy and took little time to reach max potential on a warrior character, while all the other classes were still strugglng with their mechanics and combos (which turn out to be superior once a modicum of skill is obtained).

Edited by lmaonade, 31 January 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Red_Falcon]

Ah it's refreshing to hear I'm not the only one to see this.

I rolled a Warrior since day 1 and I expected to stick with it forever, turns out all PvP-related skills are bugged and have not been fixed in 5 months... really?
And now Anet is concentrated on what priorities... wait for it... Keg brawl and house instance.

Warrior is broken and Anet isn't fixing any of the bugs.
If plan on PvPing just don't make a Warrior unless you want half of your skillset to fail to hit anyone walking.

[Bonana]

Oh shucks, well that's good to know.

I recently made a warrior for wvw, but I had no idea how bad they were.

[Dirame]

All these failure rates you speak of, I haven't experienced them. I can see your point when it comes to the role of Warriors in PvP but failing skills by missing or something like that? Haven't experienced that at all.

Also; Disengaging = Whirling Attack, de-target, Rush, switch to sword, lunge.

If you want to talk about problems with disengaging, play a guardian.

Edited by Dirame, 31 January 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Ironfungus]

I really don't understand these threads. I've played a warrior since BWE 2 and I wouldn't go back for any other class. I have 30,000 HP at level 80, I can maintain an almost constant 50% crit and my bleed damage ticks for 121-131. Without a doubt one of the best classes you can play in WvW, sPvP, or PvE. I can gap-close every eight seconds (and switch to rifle or bow if I'm getting kited), I have a shield bash interrupt and I can become immune to everything for 3 seconds. Did I mention I also have a snare?

Go sword and board.

[scaur]

Ironfungus, on 31 January 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

I really don't understand these threads. I've played a warrior since BWE 2 and I wouldn't go back for any other class. I have 30,000 HP at level 80, I can maintain an almost constant 50% crit and my bleed damage ticks for 121-131. Without a doubt one of the best classes you can play in WvW, sPvP, or PvE. I can gap-close every eight seconds (and switch to rifle or bow if I'm getting kited), I have a shield bash interrupt and I can become immune to everything for 3 seconds. Did I mention I also have a snare?

Go sword and board.

your so call immune to everything do you mean by shield block? It doesnt let you immuse to condtion. and the cool-down is 30 sec with out trait.

We are the only class with out pets

Edited by scaur, 31 January 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Ironfungus]

scaur, on 31 January 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

your so call immune to everything do you mean by shield block? It doesnt let you immuse to condtion.

Well, if shake it off or mending doesn't handle those conditions then surely my 30,000 HP will.

[Eon Lilu]

lmao....I think you need to watch this video OP and then try to say Warrior is not viable for pvp....I call bullshit. 5man warrior team....

Edited by Eon Lilu, 31 January 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[beadnbutter32]

I don't PVP, so I could care less about QQing about Warriors status in PvP, but I do have one I run PVE with and Warrior is still one of the new trinity of classes always welcome in dungeon runs: Warrior, Guardian and Mesmer.

Still, Anet has been rather stingy in handing out any improvements to the class in all the patches to date, which is strange when some classes seem to get a new/improved skill practically every patch (I am looking at you Ele's.)

I really wish they would fix the Purging Flames + Protector's Strike combo so it would work.  Right now the only time it procs is if you do it with no foes present.  Add a foe, and it does not proc.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 01 February 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[Mekkakat]

Ow.. Reading this reminds me of how much I miss playing my beta Warrior :/

[Dirame]

Eon Lilu, on 31 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

lmao....I think you need to watch this video OP and then try to say Warrior is not viable for pvp....I call bullshit. 5man warrior team....

5-man warrior team in a week where everybody and their mother is going to paids just because? Yea, try that on a team that actually knows what it's doing and you'll see yourself squashed like a miniature under a fat butt.

Edited by Dirame, 01 February 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[lmaonade]

Eon Lilu, on 31 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

lmao....I think you need to watch this video OP and then try to say Warrior is not viable for pvp....I call bullshit. 5man warrior team....

I can guarantee you if they learn how to play a 5 man mesmer team, they will roll through everything 100x (no, 500x!) harder

Dirame, on 31 January 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

All these failure rates you speak of, I haven't experienced them. I can see your point when it comes to the role of Warriors in PvP but failing skills by missing or something like that? Haven't experienced that at all.

Also; Disengaging = Whirling Attack, de-target, Rush, switch to sword, lunge.

If you want to talk about problems with disengaging, play a guardian.

He's most likely referring to skills like Bulls Rush and Rush on the GS, which bug up about 20% of the time for me, where I reach the target but I'm still floating in mid air or still running at them without ever having the skill actually hit, then after a few seconds I just stop and the skill goes on cooldown without doing anything. It's similar to the elementalists problem with magnetic grasp (before the most recent patch that is) if you've ever experienced that.

Edited by lmaonade, 02 February 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Red_Falcon]

lmaonade, on 02 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

He's most likely referring to skills like Bulls Rush and Rush on the GS, which bug up about 20% of the time for me, where I reach the target but I'm still floating in mid air or still running at them without ever having the skill actually hit, then after a few seconds I just stop and the skill goes on cooldown without doing anything. It's similar to the elementalists problem with magnetic grasp (before the most recent patch that is) if you've ever experienced that.

Exactly.
Every time you use those skills, at least one of them fails to do anything and you get very exposed.

I doubt there is anyone in PvP that has ever been hit by Rush, seriously just moving half a foot away makes the Warrior fail the skill.
Bull is even more ridiculous, not only it fails on anything strafing remotely, but sometimes even on standing people you go "through" the person and end up behind them cutting thin air.
Bolas is similar, misses anything that doesn't move in a perfectly parallel line.

Leap works, just like Guardian's Leap of Faith.
If that one works why can't Rush, Bull and Bolas too?

Seriously, one can be good all he wants but you can't do anything when a bugged skill fails you.
When two bugged skills manage to fail you in a row you get mad and log off.
When THREE bugged skills manage to all freakin fail in the same fight, you ALT+F4 the helll out of that game and come here to vent.

[Wifflebottom]

Your entire post sounds very whiny and I completely disagree. Warriors are perfectly viable, you're not supposed to have a lot of disengage skills, that's why you have the largest health and armor. You can build to have the highest consistent damage AND great burst, you have support builds too. Only thieves and mesmers (and maybe eles) can have even comparable burst. You want to complain about elites: battle standard is a rez +3 boons to all nearby allies, and the signet gives you 3 boons for 30 seconds on a 1 min CD that isn't bad, rampage sucks I agree. Eles have it way worse, elitewise. Some of the problems you point out aren't unique to the warrior, other professions have them too so stop acting like a child.

[Trei]

First world "profession" problems... .

Edited by Trei, 03 February 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Red_Falcon]

Wifflebottom, on 03 February 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

Your entire post sounds very whiny and I completely disagree. Warriors are perfectly viable, you're not supposed to have a lot of disengage skills, that's why you have the largest health and armor. You can build to have the highest consistent damage AND great burst, you have support builds too. Only thieves and mesmers (and maybe eles) can have even comparable burst. You want to complain about elites: battle standard is a rez +3 boons to all nearby allies, and the signet gives you 3 boons for 30 seconds on a 1 min CD that isn't bad, rampage sucks I agree. Eles have it way worse, elitewise. Some of the problems you point out aren't unique to the warrior, other professions have them too so stop acting like a child.

From your post it's pretty clear you don't play a Warrior (and still die to them? jesus l2p) and you're just scared the class might get fixed and start to be a threat.

[chuckles79]

Here's my 5 cents.  I hadn't played SPvP since the first beta, where I played 3 matches with a ranger.  I decided to take in my warrior and give it a whirl.
I went axe/shield and rifle, and I owned everything except for one pesky mesmer.

The rifle brings as much pew pew as a ranger shortbow (not as high rate of fire, but more versatile) and with Leg Specialist, I can pick off any straggler or break up a coordinated rush.

The axe/shield combo allows for a highly mobile combat, with 3 causing immobilize (with trait) and cripple, 2 for enemies behind or to the side, and one for pumping damage.  Eviscerate is for when they realize they made a mistake and try to flee.
I use shield bash as a rescue skill, so I have a second to heal or whatever.  Number 4 is obvious, make rangers curse cruel fate.

I also tried hammer and didn't find much room for complaint there either.

[Dirame]

lmaonade, on 02 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

I can guarantee you if they learn how to play a 5 man mesmer team, they will roll through everything 100x (no, 500x!) harder



He's most likely referring to skills like Bulls Rush and Rush on the GS, which bug up about 20% of the time for me, where I reach the target but I'm still floating in mid air or still running at them without ever having the skill actually hit, then after a few seconds I just stop and the skill goes on cooldown without doing anything. It's similar to the elementalists problem with magnetic grasp (before the most recent patch that is) if you've ever experienced that.

Funny thing is, the only time that happened to me is yesterday and the day before because I was lagging. When I wasn't lagging, I landed bull's rush quite consistently.

[Alilei22]

Wait so now Warriors are QQing?  Id hate to see how bad off all the other classes are then.

WvW is about running with the zerg anyways.

Edited by Alilei22, 04 February 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[SpelignErrir]

Warrior is the "low skill curve" class, intended for newer players, or people with less experience.

It's better if you're inexperienced than other classes, but if you know how to play the other classes, warrior is inferior.

Think hadouken spamming in Mortal Combat or the Noob Tube in Modern Warfare. It requires not a lot of "skill" but is effective. However, if you do know what you're doing, then you should probably use something else.

Warrior isn't underpowered. It's as it should be. A class for new players.

Go play an elementalist or something.

[lollasaurus]

Cant say I agree with this, if you have ever fought a T1 WvW server or SBI since September the utilization of  frontline Hammer Warriors is a staple of WvW guilds.

I agree they are not as versatile as they should be, but compared to some other classes I still feel like I have a lot of options, though I do feel like they are outdated for sPvP as most people know how to deal with them and shut down warriors easily in the Mists.

[lmaonade]

Dirame, on 04 February 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Funny thing is, the only time that happened to me is yesterday and the day before because I was lagging. When I wasn't lagging, I landed bull's rush quite consistently.

Bull's Rush is quite a bit better now, it used to bug up over 50% of the time

Rush is another story, it STILL fails for me around 50% of the time in PvE (haven't noticed it much in pvp or wvw cause I don't use it too much) and I don't lag I have like a 20 megabit line going through my apartment

Edited by lmaonade, 05 February 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[whodini]

Dirame, on 01 February 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

5-man warrior team in a week where everybody and their mother is going to paids just because? Yea, try that on a team that actually knows what it's doing and you'll see yourself squashed like a miniature under a fat butt.

how many similar comments. Like this  have I heard on this forum after someone puts out a vid. "I don't have to speak. I only have to do it"

[ben911993]

SpelignErrir, on 04 February 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Warrior is the "low skill curve" class, intended for newer players, or people with less experience.

It's better if you're inexperienced than other classes, but if you know how to play the other classes, warrior is inferior.

Think hadouken spamming in Mortal Combat or the Noob Tube in Modern Warfare. It requires not a lot of "skill" but is effective. However, if you do know what you're doing, then you should probably use something else.

Warrior isn't underpowered. It's as it should be. A class for new players.

Go play an elementalist or something.

This.

Unfortunately, your profession is much more of a commitment than your weapon. My main is a warrior, and I feel the pain of having very little in the way of defense or disengaging skills. In dungeon runs it isn't a problem, since I usually have a guardian at my side. But in general, simply having high health and high armor don't make up for the absurd lack of defense that the warrior has. In pvp, any decently smart player won't even much have to bother with the warrior since they're so easy to evade and kill.

However, that high health and armor is usually enough to survive most encounters in overworld pve; it's easy mode, no need to focus on active defense other than dodging. It sucks a bit though that my favorite profession to play simply isn't viable in pvp, but that's the nature of the profession.

[Snowulf]

saw this thread after seeing almost every pve instance soloed by a warrior.
Also: try playing guardian in WvW.

[RivenTheValorous]

Whoever said Warrior isn't viable in WvW is dead wrong.

And thinking a class is "easy mode" can certainly take away any effort to become truly elite at it. I have 1000 hours on my warrior, 900+ of those in WvW, and I wouldn't change a thing. Sure, they could use some bug fixes, but so could any other class. If you think warriors are underpowered, you are delusional.

Can't speak on sPvP, but hammer tank warrior was viable in GW1 and it is viable in GW2. Or glass GS warrior if you are cheesy. I think warriors get sold short because everyone wants to use a greatsword.

[SmoothHussler]

Thank you OP for elucidating what I've been thinking about my choice to play as the Warrior.  Everything you wrote is 100% true to my exerience playing this class (lvl 75 at the moment).  I have kept out of WvW mostly because the Warrior is so poor at dealing with the ranged/AOE and conditions zergs can dish out, having no real viable options in that regard itself.

I am forcing myself to 80 with this Warrior at which point I will move on and play a different class.  I have tried different weapon/trait combos but haven't found one I feel is reliable.  Maybe its my style, as I think the guardian or the versatility of the engineer would be more my thing, but again, VERY dissapointed in the Warrior.