50 replies to this topic

[beadnbutter32]

Warrior is a great class, at least for PVE.  I don't PVP so I really don't care how Warriors do there.

I do think Arenanet seems to have tunnel vision in terms of which classes get bug fixes, tweaks, new skills, etc.
Every single patch has something for Elementalists, while Warriors rarely get touched.

Warriors could use a few more self combos that don't involve swapping weapons, and perhaps another mobility skill.

The are still a great choice for PVE including dungeons etc.

[Fallanx]

yea i agree, nerf warriors, too op

[Mitch]

Red_Falcon, on 30 January 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Seriously I pvp a ton on many chars but my Warrior is just a desperate case of "class abandoned to itself".

Let's see what we have.

Worst gap closers:
Rush and Bull can fail by design. They can be avoided by walking, not even dodging.
Sometimes they fail even against standing people.
No fix has come yet, doubt we'll ever see one.
Bolas is too slow, you don't even need to dodge it just moving avoids it.
Sword leap is the only one that sort of comes close to what other classes have - too bad it sits on the most UP of Warrior weapons; how many of you get sword mainhand on a secondary set just for the leap? This should not be acceptable.

Don't agree entirely, Rush is indeed rather clunky but I have no issues with Bull's Charge, I havent really seen it bug (much) and I've played quite a bit of warrior in sPvP, as far as comparing gap closers to other professions, I don't think warriors are much worse off if any, they do rely on gapclosers more than most other professions though.

Quote

Worst elite:
Most classes have built-in swiftness of some sort or utility-based swiftness.
Warrior needs to bust, wair for it... AN ELITE.... AND it's not even enough!
You also need to get +swift duration / boon duration for it to cover the uptime.

While I agree that warrior elites are fairly lackluster, I think signet of rage is a fairly good elite, especially when paired with rune of lyssa and the 20% cdr trait, full cleanse and buff on a 48s cd that adds significant durations of might, swiftness and fury? Hell yeah I'll take that, without the lyssa runes though it does feel a bit weak.

Quote

Worst profession skills:
Earthshaker is bugged and sometimes fails even if you land on one's head.
Eviscerate used to be good, now it's easy to fail as the built-in gap closer is almost impairing the land rate of the skill - not to mention that if it doesn't crit it's joke damage.
Arcing slice? Possibly worst profession skill in the game.
Killshot, make sure the target is not aware of you else don't even try.

I kind of like eviscerate, flurry isnt all that bad either, especially if you're backed up by 1-2 allies, arcing slice is obviously not ever wortth using but skull bash is pretty amazing. All in all I don't feel burst skills are where warriors are lacking.

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Zero ways to disengage:
Yes that's it. There is no way you're escaping anyone with a brain on a Warrior, once your worst-than-anyone-else's death-delaying tools are gone, you're dead.
We don't even have a guaranteed way to avoid a stake like most classes.

Disagreed completely, rush and whirlwind attack are great escape tools, heck even bull's charge and shield bash can be used to escape, savage leap is also really useful for this on occassion, escaping is definitely not a weakness of warriors imo (thieves and eles do it better i suppose but theyre the most mobile professions in the game)

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But Warriors have, ah yes, the DOMOGES.
Except that Warrior's damage is comparable to other classes normally, save for some bursty skills that comes with built-in flaws, that need to be setup by using... wait for it... the bugged gap closers/control mentioned earlier!
Castrated damage skills that rely on bugged gap closers.
It sounds like a good joke, except the joke is on you.

Well I would say warriors are on the upper end of the damage output spectrum, the weakness of warriors lies mostly in the fact that they can be kited fairly easily and their ranged options suck.

Quote

But Warriors have the "sturdy body".
3 seconds of immortality (fixed tooltips my ass, EP lasts 3s period, and tooltip still states 5) definitely defines a sturdy body... except Rangers and Eles access to much superior and longer-lasting versions of the same.
Mesmers can deny a lot more damage through clones, Guards have protection/heals, Thieves have stealth, Necros got DS+protection, even poor Engies have better ways of avoiding damage.
Of course high health pool matters zero in this game that's all about avoiding damage or dying.
Remember that guy with 3500 armor & double EP hammer making videos? He got barely the same survivability of other classes by going full defense!

Warriors are tanky, in longer engagements however they got very little ways to recover lost health, meaning their high health pool will gradually drop, whereas other professions lack the high armor or health values and have better ways to heal themselves.

Another problem with warriors is their lack of condition removal, you're basically forced to run lyssa runes, which isn't that bad honestly but 1 cleanse on a 48s cooldown isnt enough as cripple/chill/immobilize are the bane of warriors so you'll need at least 2 ways of removing them, meaning you're limited in the choice of your heal/utility skills.

Basically I think you're exaggarating quite a bit, but the point you're trying to make is definitely valid: Warriors are weak in sPvP, I'm not entirely sure if this is due to them being 'UP'  or other professions (mainly Eles, Guardians and Mesmers) being 'OP' though.

[Red_Falcon]

Mitch, on 07 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Warriors are weak in sPvP, I'm not entirely sure if this is due to them being 'UP'  or other professions (mainly Eles, Guardians and Mesmers) being 'OP' though.

Warriors were simply overnerfed back in BWEs.
BWE Warriors were basically on par with current Eles/Guardians/Mesmers/Thieves, but other professions back then were still unfinished so we seemed OP.
Now that other profs are finished our nerfs need to be undone.

[Lunacy Polish]

Red Falcon is objectively correct about many items.  I main a Warrior and I adapt to these problems but I feel like so many of them are bad design which can be fixed or bugs.  IMHO however I believe other professions are similarly broken.

Rangers.  That is all.

Necromancers are generally relegated to certain cookie cutter builds and the effectiveness of the power builds seems highly variable.  I am trying for a hybrid Myself and fear it may not work so good.

Ellies have some kitten good builds but not that many.  The D/D Ellie is the best one but it is ultimately just a one trick pony with a fancy rotation requiring precise timing.  The S/D spike build is good too and some are happy with staff support but they do not have much else.

Guardians are strong but if you look at their mechanics they have some build variety limitations practically hard coded in.

Still we are no less important than anyone else and I think it reasonable bugs be fixed.

[Xsiriss]

I agree with you for once Falcon.

For real PvP (tPvP basically) Warrior is a bad pick, as are a most melee options aside from burst. Guardian can only run bunker effectively as it does suffer similar problems, though is designed much better for PvP situations. WvW is a completely different, Zergtastic entity that really shouldn't be the focus of balance. Sure you can probably do fine running GS+LB/Rifle, but if you get focused prepare your anus.

It's a shame that because Warrior does excel in PvE, which is by far the more popular aspect, no matter how boring it is people won't think about this side of the matter.

[Kokobloko]

The Shadow, on 31 January 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

Everything you've written is just so true... Absolutely no one in WvW plays Warrior anymore. People that do are idiots because the class sucks absolute ass. Not to mention it's the least versatile of all the classes.

I mean really... I don't think I've seen Warriors in WvW in like forever. Has everyone re-rolled or something?

Well i have like 1400 hours total playing time... 1350 hours are on warrior. I spent quite a lot of time on WvW mostly roaming with 2-4 guildmates. However, i'm currently leveling a thief. Sad Panda worst survivability melee class ever.

When i seek for solo fights i go GS/Axe-Shield glass cannon build (however, i can hardly take on more than 2 enemies). Tanky-cc builds Hammer/Sword-Shield on toughness/power/prec or power/vit/toughness for small - big zerg fights..

Edited by Kokobloko, 19 February 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Nukk]

There are a lot of valid points made by the OP. I play GW2 for the PvP and my first class was a Mesmer which I spent a lot of time in WvW with until I re-rolled to a warrior. The reason I re-rolled was simple, I felt that the Mesmer had too much going for it (too easy to beat players with similar skill) and I like to play the underdog class so that when I win engagements I know its me and not my class. I had the same philosophy in Aion and played a Chanter on the Spatalos server up until and including 3.0, but that's another story.

Reading posts like the OP's I always thought that it was through lack of trying or understanding of the class and not enough desire to improve and overcome the class' drawbacks. In PvE the warrior is perfectly viable but then I guess any class is (dungeon class discrimination aside), in WvW it works either built as a solo roamer or as a group support (that's not to say that other classes can't do these things better) but in sPvP its a bit more of a stretch. Don't get me wrong, in 8 v 8 you can roll a warrior with a greatsword and look for unsuspecting classes to bull rush then 100b+frenzy down and think you're god but that only works against bad / mediocre players and / or players with their stun breakers / get out of jail free cards on cool-down. In a sPvP setting with skilled players the warrior comes up short due to having certain class drawbacks and other classes being able to do the same thing but with more advantages.

I don't believe in having starter classes that have an easier time against other classes at a low skill level and then having a much harder time at the other end of the spectrum. Balance (from a PvP PoV) should 100% be about balancing classes at the highest skill level.

I am sticking with my warrior as I still need to improve with it and because I want me and not my class to be winning in high end PvP. Having said that, the class does need work and I'm looking forward to the the developers addressing other classes' supremacy with certain functions in future updates.

Edited by Nukk, 06 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Patar]

I've felt the same since beta. The warrior just feels so gimped in terms of utility compared to all the other classes. Using a greatsword feels so boring to me, but outside of that most warrior builds aren't too viable for wvw/pvp (if at all).

I played guardian after i hit 80 on my warrior and was just amazed with how easily a guardian can fill any role. Their skills offer way more self-sufficiency and they can deal great damage too, while also being able to benefit allies. The warrior feels like a one-trick pony. the casters have skills that give them better survivability than warriors even, dish out more damage, and have better mobility. I don't get why.

I still play warrior, and it's fun. But competitively I'm putting myself at a disadvantage.

[Killyox]

Red_Falcon, on 30 January 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Seriously I pvp a ton on many chars but my Warrior is just a desperate case of "class abandoned to itself".

Let's see what we have.

Worst gap closers:
Rush and Bull can fail by design. They can be avoided by walking, not even dodging.
Sometimes they fail even against standing people.
No fix has come yet, doubt we'll ever see one.
Bolas is too slow, you don't even need to dodge it just moving avoids it.
Sword leap is the only one that sort of comes close to what other classes have - too bad it sits on the most UP of Warrior weapons; how many of you get sword mainhand on a secondary set just for the leap? This should not be acceptable.

Worst elite:
Most classes have built-in swiftness of some sort or utility-based swiftness.
Warrior needs to bust, wair for it... AN ELITE.... AND it's not even enough!
You also need to get +swift duration / boon duration for it to cover the uptime.

Worst profession skills:
Earthshaker is bugged and sometimes fails even if you land on one's head.
Eviscerate used to be good, now it's easy to fail as the built-in gap closer is almost impairing the land rate of the skill - not to mention that if it doesn't crit it's joke damage.
Arcing slice? Possibly worst profession skill in the game.
Killshot, make sure the target is not aware of you else don't even try.

Zero ways to disengage:
Yes that's it. There is no way you're escaping anyone with a brain on a Warrior, once your worst-than-anyone-else's death-delaying tools are gone, you're dead.
We don't even have a guaranteed way to avoid a stake like most classes.

But Warriors have, ah yes, the DOMOGES.
Except that Warrior's damage is comparable to other classes normally, save for some bursty skills that comes with built-in flaws, that need to be setup by using... wait for it... the bugged gap closers/control mentioned earlier!
Castrated damage skills that rely on bugged gap closers.
It sounds like a good joke, except the joke is on you.

But Warriors have the "sturdy body".
3 seconds of immortality (fixed tooltips my ass, EP lasts 3s period, and tooltip still states 5) definitely defines a sturdy body... except Rangers and Eles access to much superior and longer-lasting versions of the same.
Mesmers can deny a lot more damage through clones, Guards have protection/heals, Thieves have stealth, Necros got DS+protection, even poor Engies have better ways of avoiding damage.
Of course high health pool matters zero in this game that's all about avoiding damage or dying.
Remember that guy with 3500 armor & double EP hammer making videos? He got barely the same survivability of other classes by going full defense!


And this was the "most complete class" according to Anet?
Having played all classes, Warrior is by far the most suffering and underdeveloped class to me.
Every time I return to my good old Warrior char I come away more and more disappointed, to the point I'm considering to salvage his gear.

Even my melee power Necro is miles better than the Warrior currently is; it has much, much more damage resistance, similar damage and WORKING gap closers.

Warriors are becoming more and more scarce around WvW and PvP places, and nothing is done in patches to address the issue.
A Warrior can't bunker solo, can't roam solo, can't spike solo anything with a brain, can't can't can't.


I just had to vent this because I put a lot of effort in my Warrior just to have an handicapped goat who's outclassed by everyone at anything and has a ton of BUGS on core, important skills - and nothing is ever done about it because Anet believes the Warrior is "final".

Agreed with most but Worst Elites goes to engineer.

A lot of problem with Warrior are his boring pretty much passive non-impact skills.

Bad stances, bad shouts, some BORING banners (seriously ANet, scrap banners) and meh signets.

Signets, banners and shouts are so bad no wonder most play with physical skills line.

Where are all the good warrior skills from gw1?

Edited by Killyox, 05 April 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[prince vingador]

i think apart from mesmers,guardians and eles ,all other classes are in the same boat as the warrior.

[TakumiUsui]

prince vingador, on 05 April 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

i think apart from mesmers,guardians and eles ,all other classes are in the same boat as the warrior.

Not really. All other Classes have at least 1 viable pvp Build. The Warrior has none, sadly.

[Sketchup84]

I also don't think, that Warrior has issues. What other class can have consistent 85% crit chance and 65% crit dmg (which is what I play). Disenganging is no issue at all, Whirl attack and Rush and you have some pretty good distance inbetween you and the oponent. But frankly, if you are in a 1vs2/3 situation and you are no bunker build, you have to run with all classes out there. My warrior way is normally I charge and die, but at least I take someone with me... Bolas work fine for me. Of course they are dodgeable, but so are most other throwable skills.

In spvp the warrior is a beast and for WvW if you are in a zerg, you have to go range anyway. Pretty much all melee builds are at a disadvantage in Zerg WvW. It just happens to be, that the Warriors strength is in his melee play

[Sinnacle]

Sketchup84, on 12 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

I also don't think, that Warrior has issues. What other class can have consistent 85% crit chance and 65% crit dmg (which is what I play). Disenganging is no issue at all, Whirl attack and Rush and you have some pretty good distance inbetween you and the oponent. But frankly, if you are in a 1vs2/3 situation and you are no bunker build, you have to run with all classes out there. My warrior way is normally I charge and die, but at least I take someone with me... Bolas work fine for me. Of course they are dodgeable, but so are most other throwable skills.

In spvp the warrior is a beast and for WvW if you are in a zerg, you have to go range anyway. Pretty much all melee builds are at a disadvantage in Zerg WvW. It just happens to be, that the Warriors strength is in his melee play

Warrior is a beast in Rabbit Hotjoins in sPvP.     Just like instagib signet blasting 25/20/put your points where ever backstab thieves with baslisk are beast in hot joins.  

Bola's seem to have to e point blank for land constantly they can land at range but its not as reliable.   I dont have problems with bullscharge.  I love rush if it wasn't borked just needs to track better or at least hit faster so even if the tracking is borked still you can dodge out more quickly.      

You don't have to run in a 1v2 or 1v3 on a thief it is pretty doable, same with a mesmer. in WvW.   its doable on warrior also provided there is not well bombing necro or a staff confusion/glamour mesmer in the mix.      The classes considered top in WvW that are capable of taking on any class regardless of spec are d/d Ele's, guardians, thieves, and mesmers.   of course certain builds are better at this than others for those classes and those are usually the most popular builds.   I would say ever other class it has to be a certain matchup or enemy comp for them take anyway warrrior build vs a bunker confusion spec engi is really difficult with a warrior Unless you have a rifle.     With a thief its doable with pretty much any build the only thing that will hurt you if your melee theif is the elite after that its not to hard.    

I don't know if that is really imbalanced that a warrior can't or doesnt really have a build that allows it to take most of the classes in a 1vx scenario like those other classes.   I like warrior alot it could use some definite bug fixes and a few buffs but I like the foundation of the class.

[Lachanche]

everyone lets go condition !

[Straight Trill]

Still do this day...its true

[trigone]

Killyox, on 05 April 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Agreed with most but Worst Elites goes to engineer.

A lot of problem with Warrior are his boring pretty much passive non-impact skills.

Bad stances, bad shouts, some BORING banners (seriously ANet, scrap banners) and meh signets.

Signets, banners and shouts are so bad no wonder most play with physical skills line.

Where are all the good warrior skills from gw1?

Lol worst elite goes for engineer? Do you know how many classes would kill for your AOE stun, condition, immobilize and heal turrets with the press of a button? Please take our better elite which is the equivalent of any other class' boon and can be removed by boon ripping and give us yours.

Wow..engy's got the worst elite..just..wow..

[Bloodtau]

Warriors abandoned?
I played an engineer. Those have been abandoned since day 1.

[Featherman]

Movement abilities + the game's targeting system = cancer

[Killyox]

trigone, on 08 May 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Lol worst elite goes for engineer? Do you know how many classes would kill for your AOE stun, condition, immobilize and heal turrets with the press of a button? Please take our better elite which is the equivalent of any other class' boon and can be removed by boon ripping and give us yours.

Wow..engy's got the worst elite..just..wow..

yes we got worst elites, 1 decent elite which is supply drop, elixir x and mortar are crap

[trigone]

Killyox, on 09 May 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

yes we got worst elites, 1 decent elite which is supply drop, elixir x and mortar are crap

Who cares..no class has all of their elites useful except a certain god mode class.

You are way better than some other classes' elites. Example, warrior.

Bloodtau, on 08 May 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Warriors abandoned?
I played an engineer. Those have been abandoned since day 1.

True but bunker engys aren't as bad. Not better than other classes..but not bad as warriors.