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One wrong button press causes a 3,000 player PvP battle costing $25,000


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#31 Rhododendron

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:57 AM


Each time you see one of those purple-red explosions, one capital size ship joins the battle .

Edit:  this video actually shows how the first titan got away. EVE dev blog links here mentioning this Leviathan as that first ship. Apparently he returned later and didn't escape a second time.

Edited by Rhododendron, 08 February 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#32 Feathermoore

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

I was so confused at the start of the video when they were calling for Firewall. I had thought that the firewall tactic wasn't used anymore, then it turned out to be a logi pilot named Firewall and that made more sense.

For those who never played EVE. Missiles in EVE are actual physical objects unlike lasers or projectiles. You can fly out of/into range of them and, though you can't target them, AoE damage can destroy them. There was a tactic a while back where a ship, or small squadron of ships would fit specifically with a high tank and smartbombs (PBAoE pulsing damage modules) and would sit out in-between the enemy fleet and the allied fleet. Missiles would have to pass through the "firewall" to hit the important fleet ships on the other side, greatly reducing damage. This was incredibly difficult to pull off, as positioning was crucial the fleet would use a spherical formation to keep the firewall inbetween the enemy fleet and the "main fleet."

For a visual, here is the "announcement" vid of the first Firewall fleet. The green and red flashes are the smart bombs.

http://evenews24.com...ative-firewall/

(you have to use that song in any EVE video dealing with smartbombs btw)

Edited by Feathermoore, 08 February 2013 - 07:04 PM.

Little Mabel won't be able to be here it's our worst fear. She's busy working on her garden that she's growing up in space.


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#33 Impmon

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:23 PM

Don't know wtf is going on but someone should send that to J.J. Abrams for what a space battle should look like for Star Wars ep. 7  :D

BTW 25,000 split between 3000 is $8.30 each lol....

Edited by Impmon, 08 February 2013 - 10:35 PM.


#34 Thaddeuz

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 31 January 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

The reason you don't hear things coming from guild wars 2 is because the stakes are entirely different. A 1 week battle isn't the same as a perpetual PvP with REAL money involved.

I don't think this is the only reason. In GW2 everybody is on the same side, except in WvW. And what happen in WvW don't really change anything in the long run (you get some bonus when your server is better, but they only affect you in world PvE which is so easy). Even in WvW, that you win or loss don't change anything on the game, you just change of tier. Its pretty much a large sPvP.

In WoW or SWTOR you go two side battling each other. But each encounter still don't change anything in the long run.

In the majority of the games you can play by yourselves or in small group to get pretty all you can have. In EVE, you need to pull the resources or a lot of player to get a Titan or other big ships. A single person or a small group can't afford that since you need a lot of resource from different source, you need infrastructure and security.

The reason why, everybody went into the battle is not because they could lose a lot if they die. Its because
1) They could had lost a lot if they didn't went (by they i mean their Corporation and indirectly the players)
2) They had the opportunity to hurt a rival corporation/alliance. Not only an week match-up, but in the long run.

Imagine Guild War 2, with an actual Guild War, where each Guild and Alliance need to protect what they have and could attack the other guild to limit their operation.

#35 Winterclaw

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:23 AM

The Mattani adds his own two cents about what happened.  It's interesting to see how a cascade of failures allowed that awesomeness to happen.
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#36 Corsair

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:55 AM

View PostFeathermoore, on 08 February 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I was so confused at the start of the video when they were calling for Firewall. I had thought that the firewall tactic wasn't used anymore, then it turned out to be a logi pilot named Firewall and that made more sense.

For those who never played EVE. Missiles in EVE are actual physical objects unlike lasers or projectiles. You can fly out of/into range of them and, though you can't target them, AoE damage can destroy them. There was a tactic a while back where a ship, or small squadron of ships would fit specifically with a high tank and smartbombs (PBAoE pulsing damage modules) and would sit out in-between the enemy fleet and the allied fleet. Missiles would have to pass through the "firewall" to hit the important fleet ships on the other side, greatly reducing damage. This was incredibly difficult to pull off, as positioning was crucial the fleet would use a spherical formation to keep the firewall inbetween the enemy fleet and the "main fleet."

For a visual, here is the "announcement" vid of the first Firewall fleet. The green and red flashes are the smart bombs.

http://evenews24.com...ative-firewall/

(you have to use that song in any EVE video dealing with smartbombs btw)
Whomever named the tactic Firewall was an idiot. That's a Disco Ball!

Also, I just love the physicality of these mechanics. This is the kind of depth that I love in games and to see in game design.

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#37 Targanwolf

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 04 February 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Because the amount of people that actually like PK are not enough to justify spending a AAA MMO budget on them. Right now it is barely enough to justify on making a NON PK AAA game. ( you could argue that a good MMO innovative MMO will bring numbers. I will argue that gamers love the familiar and are not going to adopted to new things unless they are forced to; which is why 99.99% of AAA new IP are created during the first few years of a console release.)

DAOC(the gold standard of realm vs realm warfare) has been running for 10 years despite the best efforts from its former producer  Mark Jacobs to kill it(with expansions like TRIALS OF ATLANTIS). Elder SCROLLS ONLINE has as a primary focus realm vs realm conflict.(Hundreds of millions in development costs and 5 years of development have already happened because some believe they know how to do realm vs realn right.

#38 Feathermoore

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

View PostCorsair, on 09 February 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Whomever named the tactic Firewall was an idiot. That's a Disco Ball!

Also, I just love the physicality of these mechanics. This is the kind of depth that I love in games and to see in game design.

The video is sped up quite a bit, smartbombs don't fire that fast, but smartbomb battleships are normally referred to as Discoballs.

The missile mechanic is awesome but there are some mechanics that just make no sense. If I orbit a cruiser in my frigate at high speed, the cruiser has a hard time hitting me because of the orbital velocity and tracking speed. This makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is that it is also harder for me to hit him, even though from my ship's POV the cruiser isn't moving since I am orbiting it.

The missile mechanics are also one of the major causes of lag in EVE as the server has to track each individual missile. Something they are still working on I think.

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#39 Impmon

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

Just curious but if that space battle is a rarity what do people do in the meantime ?  They get all these super battle zords and float around in space mrrrderpa derr looky mee in my fancy epics like people used to do in WOW when they grinded to get full epics and then just stood around afk in orgrimmar until they quit.  If space battles like that happen once in a blue moon what do they do the remainder of the time ?  Ohhh I have million more resources then you I r l33tz0rs ?  

Seems considerably boring.

#40 Winterclaw

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

Depends on the corp.  Most of the big ones probably have something going on every now and then, but nothing on that scale.
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#41 Corsair

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:59 AM

View PostImpmon, on 10 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Just curious but if that space battle is a rarity what do people do in the meantime ?  They get all these super battle zords and float around in space mrrrderpa derr looky mee in my fancy epics like people used to do in WOW when they grinded to get full epics and then just stood around afk in orgrimmar until they quit.  If space battles like that happen once in a blue moon what do they do the remainder of the time ?  Ohhh I have million more resources then you I r l33tz0rs ?  

Seems considerably boring.
As Winterclaw said, it depends on the corp. But the game doesn't lend itself well to idling in secure space. There are planetary systems to be fought over and won, asteroids to mine, miners to pirate, and enemies to blow up. You see, almost everything in the game is player made. All of those ships in the battle? Someone had to mine the materials and assemble them, even multiple somebodies! Taking months of time in some cases and thousands of ISK. You see, the winner of this battle didn't just win that, they earned a huge strategic advantage due to their enemies suffering far more losses which will take a lot of time to recoup.

Also, if you do get some asshat sitting somewhere going I IZ LEET, well.... you can kill him. In secure space it's not a good idea due to NPCs who will attack you, and the fact that if he is at that point his ship will likely decimate yours. Granted it can be said that a lot of this game could be considered idling around mining or other relatively mundane activities.

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#42 MaZt

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:38 AM

I like hearing about things that happen in EvE online cause they sound so awesome but playing the game is a whole other experience.
Luckily I just started playing Dust 514 which is a free FPS game connected with the EvE universe which is now in Open Beta.

Here's a video showcasing an orbital strike by an EvE player in the planet that Dust 514 players fight.


#43 Menehune

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:54 AM

I quit EVE after a bit over a year because it was becoming more of a job than a game and CCP's "encouragement" of players to move down out of empire space towards 0.0. During that year, there were a number of large alliance battles, but I'm pretty sure none were so big.

View PostFeathermoore, on 09 February 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

The video is sped up quite a bit, smartbombs don't fire that fast, but smartbomb battleships are normally referred to as Discoballs.

The missile mechanic is awesome but there are some mechanics that just make no sense. If I orbit a cruiser in my frigate at high speed, the cruiser has a hard time hitting me because of the orbital velocity and tracking speed. This makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is that it is also harder for me to hit him, even though from my ship's POV the cruiser isn't moving since I am orbiting it.

The missile mechanics are also one of the major causes of lag in EVE as the server has to track each individual missile. Something they are still working on I think.
Don't forget that your orbit has a velocity component tangent to your orbit and the cruiser is probably moving even though it appears stationary from your PoV. Anything ballistic like cannon rounds shot directly at the cruiser *will* miss and powered missiles have to compensate for the lateral velocity + cruiser motion. Different missile types have varying mass and speed so would have varying ability to compensate.

#44 Feathermoore

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:36 PM

View PostMenehune, on 11 February 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Don't forget that your orbit has a velocity component tangent to your orbit and the cruiser is probably moving even though it appears stationary from your PoV. Anything ballistic like cannon rounds shot directly at the cruiser *will* miss and powered missiles have to compensate for the lateral velocity + cruiser motion. Different missile types have varying mass and speed so would have varying ability to compensate.

Frigate/cruiser isn't the best example. I can orbit a battleship fast enough that I can't hit it... when it isn't moving, that is like me riding in a motorcycle sidecar being unable to hit the side of a skyscownr I am driving in circles around. Orbit speed has the same penalty to the orbiter as the orbitee even with "instant" impact weapons such as beam weaponry though projectile weapons are treated as if they hit instantly as well, travel time only exists for missiles and bombs.

Then there are the "graphical anomalies" of ships flying in strait lines with engines that don't thrust through their center of mass. I had a corp member who refused to fly certain ships because that annoyed him so much (aerospace engineer).

View PostImpmon, on 10 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Just curious but if that space battle is a rarity what do people do in the meantime ?  They get all these super battle zords and float around in space mrrrderpa derr looky mee in my fancy epics like people used to do in WOW when they grinded to get full epics and then just stood around afk in orgrimmar until they quit.  If space battles like that happen once in a blue moon what do they do the remainder of the time ?  Ohhh I have million more resources then you I r l33tz0rs ?  

Seems considerably boring.

Fights like these happen more often than are really reported, they just normally aren't as big of a "whoops" which made this more amusing to report on. I have never been in a Sov holding corp so I have never been involved in the 1000+ pilot fights. My alliance roams in fleets of 4- 40 and we get a good fight 70% of the time we go out. We get a few ganks 100% of the time and more often than not on some really expensive carebear ships.

It is possible to get into an alliance that only does "the fun stuff" but you still need a way to afford ships and ammo (funstuff alliances don't have ship replacement programs). That can be boring... unless you make your money as a mercenary, which just means you get paid to do fun stuff.

Edited by Feathermoore, 11 February 2013 - 02:37 PM.

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#45 Impmon

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

I tried eve when it came out and was bored after 20 min of having to mine asteroids and fight npc pirates then return to a station for some chat filter epicness then out to mine asteroids and doing fed ex quests for more chat filter roleplayers in space stations.  Was really fun... really it was.

#46 MrDerp

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

while that looks so much fun i am not sure would i be happy after so hard work to just be destroyed by some player and start from start

#47 Feathermoore

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

View PostMrDerp, on 12 February 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

while that looks so much fun i am not sure would i be happy after so hard work to just be destroyed by some player and start from start

You don't actually start over from scratch. Most ships can be insured for a large percent of their hull cost and your character's skill points can be protected through the use of clones. Most players have dozens of different ships scattered around the galaxy and many of these ships destroyed in this battle probably were flown by the same people (your shipgets blown up and you reship into another from an allied carrier).

So yes, you lose stuff, but not at such a rate that it isn't "worth" the fun that the space explosions gave you in most circumstances (unless you get caught in a gate camp but that was your fault then).

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#48 Winterclaw

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:28 AM

Never fly what you can't afford to lose.  If that means all you can afford to lose is a cruiser, stick to level 2 combat missions.
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#49 Rhododendron

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:33 AM

View PostWinterclaw, on 17 February 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Never fly what you can't afford to lose.  If that means all you can afford to lose is a cruiser, stick to level 2 combat missions.
But there is absolutely no fun in that. EVE is more exciting then other games because you can pick up a courier contract with a 500 million collateral and 80 million reward, fly 20 jumps through nullsec with 4 stabilisers and an old cloak, dodge the tacklers, swim through the bubbles littered with cans, get sucked  by bubbles when you exit warp way behind the star gates, read Russian smacktalk, salvage an elite wreck, fish out some abandoned t2 drones, get to station, clone jump, get back in a month where there is nobody else outside...

#50 Winterclaw

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

Sounds like fun, but you have to be able to afford it first.  ;)
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#51 ICESpider

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

I follow the general consensus on this one, the news and how people talk about this game, always made it sound so appealing but when I actually tried it. It didn't hook me in, it may have done if I had persevered through those early stages but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. That niche it has seems to work for it, from the outside it looks to still be going strong where some games have fallen to the sidelines or collapsed in same/shorter timelines.

#52 Kamatsu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:06 AM

View PostICESpider, on 20 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I follow the general consensus on this one, the news and how people talk about this game, always made it sound so appealing but when I actually tried it. It didn't hook me in, it may have done if I had persevered through those early stages but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. That niche it has seems to work for it, from the outside it looks to still be going strong where some games have fallen to the sidelines or collapsed in same/shorter timelines.
A big part of enjoying EVE is whether or not you find a player run corp that you fit in. Most ppl I find who never enjoy the game, stay in NPC corp's or get burned by bad corp's. The game itself is pretty boring and hella repetative, but if you toss in a corp full of ppl you get on with all mining or missioning or pvp'ing together? Then things get a lot better imo. Yes there are a lot of scum who play EVE, and the game itself encourages that - but there are also a lot of great ppl out there.

I remember when I played EVE, best times I had was when I was missioning with friends. Fun times. I also had my run in's with pirates and gate campers and such. One highlight for me was making a run through null space, got caught at a gate... the ppl who caught me didn't destroy my pod and actually gave me some useful tips & hints on how I could have avoided the situation I was in. Sure I was peeved at loosing my ship and stuff, but I had fun and they were nice to me afterwards (prolly cuz I didn't rage and swear at them.. instead laughed and GG'ed them in getting me... lolz).

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#53 Feathermoore

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:20 AM

This is my favorite EVE story of all time. (at least of the ones I was not involved in)

This was back in 2006.

Lan> ok, RN what did we just get. and don’t tell me practice.
RN> we ransomed that fine fellow for… get ready for it gentlemen… A PIZZA!
Sulu> uh? you’ve got to be ****ing kidding me, right? <laughter>
Lan> lol. that’s ****ing brilliant! <more laughter>
Sulu> and how the **** are we going to get this pizza exactly?
RN> well, I asked him and he lives in the uk, so I put him on the honor system. I eve mailed him with the phone number for my local dominos and an address to send me a pizza within the next hour. I told him if he didn’t do it, we’d spent the next two weeks running locator agents on him.
Lan> lol, you drunk ****head, we should have blown him up
Sulu> someone needs to revoke RN’s GL privileges tbh
Lan> /emote removes RN’s feathered FC cap
RN> come on guys, i was hungry <drunken giggles>
Sulu> you’re going to stay hungry too, and we’re going to have to grief this guy out of principle now, you *.
Lan> nice work, m8. lol.

Later on:

RN> guess what?
Sulu> no way in hell. don’t tell me the pizza came thru.
RN> the pizza came. but not to my apt.
Sulu> lol. what u mean? if it didn’t go to ur apt, then where’d it go?!
RN> the guy replied to my evemail telling me he sent it. As I was a pretty lit up last night, I guess I didn’t send him my address. I must have thought it would have been funny because I sent him my mum’s address. She called me in the middle of the night last nite when dominos delivered the damn pizza to her house, because she thought I was pulling a practical joke on her.
Sulu> Bwahahahahahahahahahahah. are you ****ing ****ting me? no way.
Sulu> Bwahhwahahwhawhahwhahwhahwhaaahahaha.
RN> here’s the best part… guess what he had written on the inside lid of the box.
Sulu> lol what?
RN> “**** YOU BASTARDS! ENJOY THE PIZZA!”
Sulu> hahaha. Bet ur mum’s ****ed.
RN> yeah, I’m going over there in a little bit… to have some cold pizza :P
Sulu> :D

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#54 ICESpider

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostKamatsu, on 21 February 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

A big part of enjoying EVE is whether or not you find a player run corp that you fit in. Most ppl I find who never enjoy the game, stay in NPC corp's or get burned by bad corp's. The game itself is pretty boring and hella repetative, but if you toss in a corp full of ppl you get on with all mining or missioning or pvp'ing together? Then things get a lot better imo. Yes there are a lot of scum who play EVE, and the game itself encourages that - but there are also a lot of great ppl out there.

I remember when I played EVE, best times I had was when I was missioning with friends. Fun times. I also had my run in's with pirates and gate campers and such. One highlight for me was making a run through null space, got caught at a gate... the ppl who caught me didn't destroy my pod and actually gave me some useful tips & hints on how I could have avoided the situation I was in. Sure I was peeved at loosing my ship and stuff, but I had fun and they were nice to me afterwards (prolly cuz I didn't rage and swear at them.. instead laughed and GG'ed them in getting me... lolz).
That is true, the main reason I enjoyed Guild Wars so much was because I was in an active/competitive guild and the game created a need for cooperation. I haven't enjoyed any other game to the same extent, possibly down to the fact games appear to be leaning towards solo play. By making everything possible to do on your own it removes that requirement for cooperation, I would like to see another game that truly makes you rely on another player.

Haha, tutored by pirates. Not much else you can do there but laugh that off, bet you never had the same thing happen again?

#55 Rhododendron

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:43 PM

View PostFeathermoore, on 21 February 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

my favorite EVE story of all time
Go inside nullsec in a coercer with a cloak  - all the way to a guarded one gate system and back to Jita, win the bet and a few hundred million iskies.

#56 Feathermoore

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

View PostRhododendron, on 21 February 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

Go inside nullsec in a coercer with a cloak  - all the way to a guarded one gate system and back to Jita, win the bet and a few hundred million iskies.

Do it again in an Orca, then I will go buy you a drink. :P

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#57 Coren

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

Holy crap... I mean WOW. I could never play EVE, no way enough time, but I love reading this sort of thing... A true MMO, anything can happen.




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