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Allowing anyone into any level of fractals: WRONG


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#1 AKGeo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:06 AM

Ok now. After three failed pugs at fractals level 14(!) in a row, i'm done pugging in fractals. Why? Because there are level 1's jumping in there without agony resist, with greens, with no clue wtf they're doing, and it's costing me and everyone else time and coin in armor repairs trying to carry them. I'm not elitist, I just think that if there's going to be a gated mechanic like agony, there needs to be a way to ensure that an underequipped player doesn't tear the team down. So, I say either

A: display agony resistance for each player when you hover over their icons in the party list.

B: If you're level 1-10, you can't join a group at level 11 or higher. Any level up to 10 is fine.

C: You can't join a group more than 5 levels higher than yours without a set amount of agony resist. This of course would only be required for fractals level 10 or higher.

Because this is just bananas.

#2 Krazzar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:36 AM

I think skipping the fractal levels before agony takes effect is fine, but afterward they should lock it to the progression they had before. I didn't have a problem with it before.

#3 Afyael

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:45 AM

They should do it in tiers: 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 etc. Painfully obvious to everyone except Anet apparently.

#4 Frozyyn

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

I have been arguing this for the past month and people have called me crazy and elitist.

Frankly, I wouldn't call foul just yet though, wait a week or 2, and try again.

#5 AKGeo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:58 AM

View PostAfyael, on 31 January 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

They should do it in tiers: 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 etc. Painfully obvious to everyone except Anet apparently.

Well you can farm fractal 10 constantly build up enough globs to upgrade the rings you can get from daily rewards, and make/upgrade a backpiece and have 30AR without even stepping foot in a level 11. So that's why I suggested seeing agony resist before going anywhere. I'm 100% down with that. BECAUSE, in order to have agony resist on any of your characters, you have to have gotten to at least level 10, therefore you have experience. And experience is paramount. But to fail so hard at level 14 is just off the wall stupid.

#6 Trei

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:14 AM

You mean... these frac level 1 noobs basically lied to you that they are higher levels just to get into the group?

#7 Eon Lilu

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

As usual Anet just blindly add changes without thinking it through, they were told all this would happen and players would kick other out of groups, players would be unhappy with lack of stats types, plus all the other changes that would cause more issues than solve any ....

Edited by unraveled, 02 February 2013 - 10:30 PM.
Removed video.


#8 AKGeo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:16 AM

View PostTrei, on 31 January 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

You mean... these frac level 1 noobs basically lied to you that they are higher levels just to get into the group?

Well if nobody thinks to ask, they don't have to lie. I just figured some people would have common sense to not join up in a group for a significantly higher difficulty level than they're prepared for. I guess that's my mistake, then?

#9 Eon Lilu

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:20 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 31 January 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well if nobody thinks to ask, they don't have to lie. I just figured some people would have common sense to not join up in a group for a significantly higher difficulty level than they're prepared for. I guess that's my mistake, then?

Aslong as one person has high agony resists, they can just res all the new players with zero agony resists even at lvl 20+ fractals...

Saw a guild do it today, 3 of the group has no agony doing lvl 20 fractal, they were not even on lvl 2 fractals and they managed to still complete it...because one of the guild has 20-30 AR...and just res'd them.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 31 January 2013 - 05:21 AM.


#10 Trei

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:29 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 31 January 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well if nobody thinks to ask, they don't have to lie. I just figured some people would have common sense to not join up in a group for a significantly higher difficulty level than they're prepared for. I guess that's my mistake, then?
No.
If you had advertised for a specific lvl range and they applied despite not meeting that range, they are trying to lie.

Were your group requirements specified?

Anyway, I think just a simple frac lvl indicator on players would suffice - direct solution.

Tiers only add restrictions to players who ie: may have their own specialized groups and want to tackle fracs 20 levels higher.
If they can pull it off, why not?

Edited by Trei, 31 January 2013 - 05:35 AM.


#11 pumpkin pie

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:32 AM

the problem is not allowing players to randomly join dungeon group, I think there should be a bulletin board somewhere that tells you about "Agony", i only just know about it too, if i was pugging, and you had explain to me why my armor won't be enough, i would not have joined at all because its embarassing to keep dying in a group and embarassing to make other players wait for you.

people should communicate more, i usually go with guild mates, they would explain whats going to happen beforehand and if you are not planning to do that, pugging is going to be frustrating. this is after all an MMO and there are bound to be noobs like me around always, needing help from more skillfull players like yourself to lead them and make them more skill full so there are more players to play with. :P

Anet did think this over, it is very good for guild group, sometime 4/3 higher level good players can bring along one or two me, its totally good this change. ppl just need to be more patient and communicate more , do a briefing beforehand!

#12 TGIFrisbie

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:33 AM

The fact you didn't see this coming weeks ago when it was announced is....humorous.

Been waitnig for this train wreck and the hate threads that would follow.

#13 AKGeo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:42 AM

View PostTrei, on 31 January 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

No.
If you had advertised for a specific lvl range and they applied despite not meeting that range, they are trying to lie.

Were your group requirements specified?

Anyway, I think just a simple frac lvl indicator on players would suffice - direct solution.

Tiers only add restrictions to players who ie: may have their own specialized groups and want to tackle fracs 20 levels higher.
If they can pull it off, why not?

Group formed through LFG.com as levels 12-14. No agony resist requirements as they're not easily enforced.

I agree with the fractal level, but AR should also be stated. Because you can farm AR/ascended gear for a lower level toon on your high level toon. I wouldn't kick out someone with 20AR gear just because they're at fractals 1...they have the gear and experience as proven by the resistance. Now, displaying fractal level would do well in the case of lower than 10 if you want to make sure someone's not just doing it for the first time.

#14 Just Horus

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

Have had no problems so far and now I don't ever need to do odd fractals = more maw chests for me. Love the change. Thank you ANet for another great update.

#15 Edath

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

Exactly why i am so opposed to this system...had 9 groups for my lvl 40 daily, in 2 days. before atleast u knew the ppl u pugged with had atleast some xp in doing the higher lvls. Have had 3 ppl in green's/rares joining in those 9 attempts and even more who hadn't seen the inside of fotm ever before. Really great this... Changes like this are for the worse, and are -for me personally- absolutely wrecking this game for me. I might be a tad elitist regarding fotm, put isn't that the point of the difficulty increasing/lvl? Fyi, have yet to complete my fotm 40dailies, And i guess the only option is looping for à fotm oriented Guildford, which i am now ;)

#16 Evans

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

Lv.1's joining a lv.40 team, well talk about one extreme.
I've been neglecting fractals at the start and have about 3 characters at the lv.3-lv.4 mark. It was frustrating to get teams which would do those levels and also actually finish them.

I'm very pleased that I can join in on a lv.10 team (which is probably as high as I'll want to go) and do the daily bonus now, whilst slowly raising my own level.

There's always extremes, but I doubt I'll be a hindering factor in a level 10 fractal because I'm stuck at a lower level.

Edited by Evans, 31 January 2013 - 08:10 AM.


#17 Darkobra

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:34 AM

Because the Fractal levels aren't account-wide, my guardian and mesmer are at level 1. However, both have 15 agony resist. With the old system, I'd have had to look for a level 1 party. Then a level 2 party. Then a level 3 party. That takes a LONG time!

Now I can jump in to any party I feel comfortable with as I have both the experience playing at higher levels and the agony resist to do so.

#18 AKGeo

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:54 AM

View PostDarkobra, on 31 January 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Because the Fractal levels aren't account-wide, my guardian and mesmer are at level 1. However, both have 15 agony resist. With the old system, I'd have had to look for a level 1 party. Then a level 2 party. Then a level 3 party. That takes a LONG time!

Now I can jump in to any party I feel comfortable with as I have both the experience playing at higher levels and the agony resist to do so.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Which is why the displayed agony resist is my first option.

#19 xtbx

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

:D

it is so hard to talk right?
A: hi, may I see your AR items pls?
B: AR wut?
A: sry this pt is not for you, check wiki for "agony"

so bloody hard right?

#20 Darkobra

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

View PostAKGeo, on 31 January 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Which is why the displayed agony resist is my first option.

And I agree with that too. Some people are thinking the current system is SO abysmal that we need to revert to what we had before. Instead what we need is compromise. Yours is the right way to do it.

#21 dzanikken

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

Well, I'm level 14 and still no AR.

But people take me with them, I'm a guardian :P

#22 Ishmar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:07 AM

Ask to Ping AR -> kick yes/no -> problem solved!

#23 Darkobra

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:08 AM

View PostIshmar, on 31 January 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Ask to Ping AR -> kick yes/no -> problem solved!

New problem: Infusions don't show when linking items.

#24 Ishmar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:13 AM

If you have a ring you are supposed to have spent 75 fractal relics for AR

#25 Darkobra

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:13 AM

Rings are now also available through Laurels.

#26 Ishmar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:19 AM

...so... If people are "smart" enough to Ping a ring with no AR you will see at The first boss, and then... Kick and find someone else XD

Or go only with guildie/trusted players

Btw you need At least 30 laurels, so or The Very short future Ping AR still works :D

#27 Coren2

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

I haven't gone over level 10 yet and even I admit it would be unfair for me to be mixed in with people who do have agony resist. It should be done in tiers, every 10 levels.

#28 dzanikken

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

View PostIshmar, on 31 January 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

...so... If people are "smart" enough to Ping a ring with no AR you will see at The first boss, and then... Kick and find someone else XD

Or go only with guildie/trusted players

Btw you need At least 30 laurels, so or The Very short future Ping AR still works :D

I don't agree here. Many players, including myself, still don't have AR post level 10. But I make up for it knowing my role in the team and the mechanics of each fractal. Agony doesn't affect me in a manner that would be detrimental to the team. So in this view, your reasoning is a bit unfair.

#29 Illein

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:51 AM

Here's how I do it:

Up to Level 19 - I don't care how much AR you've got, you're game.
20-39 - bring between 10-20 Res, depending how far on either spectrum we're running
40 - 25+

Worked dandy so far, haven't had an issue in the last few days with people who "overreached" or whatever.

#30 Waar Kijk Je Naar

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostAfyael, on 31 January 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

They should do it in tiers: 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 etc. Painfully obvious to everyone except Anet apparently.
So my Guardian with 15AR, which is only at fractal lvl 5, shouldn't be able to join fractal lvl 11+, but my Warrior with 5AR, which is at lvl 12, should be?

Edited by Waar Kijk Je Naar, 31 January 2013 - 09:56 AM.





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