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Allowing anyone into any level of fractals: WRONG


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#121 G L J

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 09 February 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Yeah, it's MY ego that's the issue when other people are elitists.

it's your ego when you get offended at them for asking for gear checks. If you had actually watched the video you would know that.

Edited by G L J, 09 February 2013 - 10:18 PM.


#122 AKGeo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 09 February 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Yeah, it's MY ego that's the issue when other people are elitists.

If you want to label someone who wants a smooth run without having to carry dead weight around an elitist...yup. That's your ego.

Once again: it doesn't matter what you can accomplish in the game if you refuse to offer any proof of such to those who matter: the people organizing the party. You expect me to take on faith that you can do what you claim?

Another aspect of this argument: If you're willing to troll a group of people by using subpar gear in 80+ level content, then I'm willing to bet that you're the sort of guy to ignore the player laying on the ground downed because he got caught, muttering to yourself (or exclaiming it loudly in chat) that he's a noob and deserves to die. One more reason to not let you in my group. Because shit happens, and someone choosing to play solely for him/herself will be no good any group of mine.

Edited by AKGeo, 09 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.


#123 HawkofStorms

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 09 February 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

If you want to label someone who wants a smooth run without having to carry dead weight around an elitist...yup. That's your ego.

Once again: it doesn't matter what you can accomplish in the game if you refuse to offer any proof of such to those who matter: the people organizing the party. You expect me to take on faith that you can do what you claim?

Another aspect of this argument: If you're willing to troll a group of people by using subpar gear in 80+ level content, then I'm willing to bet that you're the sort of guy to ignore the player laying on the ground downed because he got caught, muttering to yourself (or exclaiming it loudly in chat) that he's a noob and deserves to die. One more reason to not let you in my group. Because shit happens, and someone choosing to play solely for him/herself will be no good any group of mine.

Not at all.  That's your cynicism seeping into this conversation, not mine.

#124 AKGeo

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostHawkofStorms, on 09 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Not at all.  That's your cynicism seeping into this conversation, not mine.

It's experience. It's seeing the attitudes of people in-game. Someone gets downed, they're automatically noobs, scrubs, etc. and are unworthy of continuing on with. This is true elitism. Unwillingness to help a player out when they're struggling. Elitism isn't excluding someone for failing to prove that they possess even the slightest clue about what they're doing, when there's already an avenue for them to learn (Lower level fractals). That's the difference that you're failing to recognize.

I've been taking my alts through lower level fractals with guildies who are altogether new to the dungeon. I don't take them into higher level fractals. I wouldn't bring a new guildie along and fill out the rest of the group with pugs who expect experienced players. Because the margin of error you get in fractals is minimal compared to most of the remainder of the game.

Edited by AKGeo, 09 February 2013 - 10:42 PM.


#125 Red Sonya

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 09 February 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

If you want to label someone who wants a smooth run without having to carry dead weight around an elitist...yup. That's your ego.

Once again: it doesn't matter what you can accomplish in the game if you refuse to offer any proof of such to those who matter: the people organizing the party. You expect me to take on faith that you can do what you claim?

Another aspect of this argument: If you're willing to troll a group of people by using subpar gear in 80+ level content, then I'm willing to bet that you're the sort of guy to ignore the player laying on the ground downed because he got caught, muttering to yourself (or exclaiming it loudly in chat) that he's a noob and deserves to die. One more reason to not let you in my group. Because shit happens, and someone choosing to play solely for him/herself will be no good any group of mine.

My question here is what proves you any better than the one you complain about? There's no "Proof" that you're even skilled at what you do only your <cough> "word". lol So just because you're group leader that makes you "special"? lol I see a lot of the pots calling the kettles black here.

#126 G L J

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostRed Sonya, on 10 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

My question here is what proves you any better than the one you complain about? There's no "Proof" that you're even skilled at what you do only your <cough> "word". lol So just because you're group leader that makes you "special"? lol I see a lot of the pots calling the kettles black here.

you do that realize that's exactly why people gear check?

#127 JACK the Somnolent

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

Just have people link their resist gear before you start. Problem solved. Enough QQ.

#128 Airwolf

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

Since the last patch some parts in 20+ levels just shows you that there is a lack of experience in a lot of players that think that pre lvl 20 tactics still work. The arm seals at the colosus fractal are a great example for this.

#129 Thaddeuz

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:11 PM

The line is fine between elitism and just want not having any problem in the run. And I'm sure that this limit is different for everybody.

In fractal my main is level 67 and my engineer is level 15. I know that i can do up to level 19 with zero agony, but the other people don't know that. So i level my engie only in guild party, while doing daily with my Guardian or my Ranger until i got enough pristine (or get lucky and get the rings i need). Once I'm gonna have enough Agony, then I'm gonna join pug, because they can't know my skill. The only thing they can control is if you have agony resistance. They just want to make a good run and not having to rez the same person over and over again. The same thing with fast run in AC when people want level 70+ only because they want to do the dungeon in less time. They don't want to take 1 hours for each run, they want to do all three in 1 hours.

For me Elitism is when you push this concept further and use stupid reason.
Exemple 1: On gw2lfg someone wrote ''GLF2M Daily 10 (have 15+ AR)''. I may understand the reason behind it, but almost everybody have 0 AR at level 10. And you do your Daily 10 only for a limited number of reason. You didn't reach level 20, you do several daily per days, you level up an Alt or you help a friend. I maybe did the level 10 about 20 times, only twice with 15+ AR.

Exemple 2 : I know a lot of people won't agree with me on this, but the CoF path 1 farm with 4 warriors and 1 mesmer. I understand the Full dps policy. There is a reason behind it. You want to do the run in less than 7min so its as profitable as if can be. I also understand the mesmer, because you want to use the portal to skip the fire rocks. I'm sorry but i agree on the : Warrior is so incredible I pee a little in my pants everytime i see one. Personnally, i don't really love my Warrior. This is why i park it to fireheart only to do CoF path 1 farm, but i would far more do this path with one of the other character. The other day, i saw a thief asking for a group for this run and he had to actually post two video of him doing the run in 6:30 so people will invite him anyway. Not everybody have a Mesmer or a Warrior and having one is not proof that you gonna be good. I don't have any problem with looking for 1 Mesmer and 4 DPS (ping your berserker gear), but GLF 1 Mesmer and 4 Warriors....

#130 AKGeo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

You're level 67 and you don't have enough rings for a single second character? I have more than enough rings for my four level 80s and my main is only at level 22 fractals. Desirable stats to boot.

#131 glyphofhealing

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

I think what people are failing to understand here is that you do not need to worry about agony resist till 26+.... The only agony that is unavoidable right now is from the Maw and if you have a guardian in the team can easily be healed thru without agony resist.  I have been running with a few people from the guild doing 26/28 and they have 0 agony resist because they know how to dodge.... What it comes down to is people not knowing basic mechanics  of the game and bosses in fractals..

#132 Thaddeuz

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 12 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

You're level 67 and you don't have enough rings for a single second character? I have more than enough rings for my four level 80s and my main is only at level 22 fractals. Desirable stats to boot.

what are you talking about? I have my rings for my guardian and my ranger. I also have rings for my Engineer but i don't want to put infusion in them because they are not exactly what i want. The white stats got vitality in them and i don't want to waste 150 relics fractal to put two infusion that i will only use for a short period of time. I was really unlucky with these rings. I got two berserker rings and 1 Rabid rings, the rest of the rings i got always had some stats that i really don't care so put them on character that i don't use in fractal. Its not my fault if i had bought 4 rings for two of my character which cost me 40 pristine. (BTW after level 48 if you want to go higher you can't do daily anymore)

View Postglyphofhealing, on 12 February 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think what people are failing to understand here is that you do not need to worry about agony resist till 26+.... The only agony that is unavoidable right now is from the Maw and if you have a guardian in the team can easily be healed thru without agony resist.  I have been running with a few people from the guild doing 26/28 and they have 0 agony resist because they know how to dodge.... What it comes down to is people not knowing basic mechanics  of the game and bosses in fractals..

You are right for guild group. But when you are playing with pug this is another world. I used to be anti-elitist and shit. I'm still like that, but the fact is, it took me 3 hours to do a daily level 30 yesterday (2 of them were just dying each minute on the dredge boss from the agony). THAT IS INSANE. It took me this time to complete level 67 (Swamp/Colossus/Volcanic) with my guild.

Edited by Thaddeuz, 12 February 2013 - 03:32 PM.


#133 glyphofhealing

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 12 February 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

what are you talking about? I have my rings for my guardian and my ranger. I also have rings for my Engineer but i don't want to put infusion in them because they are not exactly what i want. The white stats got vitality in them and i don't want to waste 150 relics fractal to put two infusion that i will only use for a short period of time. I was really unlucky with these rings. I got two berserker rings and 1 Rabid rings, the rest of the rings i got always had some stats that i really don't care so put them on character that i don't use in fractal. Its not my fault if i had bought 4 rings for two of my character which cost me 40 pristine. (BTW after level 48 if you want to go higher you can't do daily anymore)



You are right for guild group. But when you are playing with pug this is another world. I used to be anti-elitist and shit. I'm still like that, but the fact is, it took me 3 hours to do a daily level 30 yesterday (2 of them were just dying each minute on the dredge boss from the agony). THAT IS INSANE. It took me this time to complete level 67 (Swamp/Colossus/Volcanic) with my guild.

It comes down to people not knowing the basic mechanics of the game..... guild groups generally will know the basic mechanics of dodging/ positioning etc....  Some pugs will also know some of these mechanics but most are either to lazy or stupid to do them in fractals.

#134 Thaddeuz

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

View Postglyphofhealing, on 12 February 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

It comes down to people not knowing the basic mechanics of the game..... guild groups generally will know the basic mechanics of dodging/ positioning etc....  Some pugs will also know some of these mechanics but most are either to lazy or stupid to do them in fractals.

I don't know if stupid of lazy are the word. Sometime not everybody know how to play well or just didn't learn yet. I don't really mind carrying 1 or 2 people under level 20, but after that everybody need to do their part (mainly to stay alive).

#135 xxMOxx

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

When I pug my dailies, I always ask them to link their [shard of crystallized mist essence] instead of AR gears
its easy to get 25/30 AR, but the number of shards tell you how much fractals he has done.

im level 60 with 49shards in my bank

#136 Darkobra

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:11 PM

View Postbmwmmm, on 13 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

When I pug my dailies, I always ask them to link their [shard of crystallized mist essence] instead of AR gears
its easy to get 25/30 AR, but the number of shards tell you how much fractals he has done.

im level 60 with 49shards in my bank

Lucky you. But the problem with that is luck. I am guaranteed tokens for beating a fractal. Hence, how I have agony resist and ascended gear at all. But I have only one vial, glob and shard from doing it often since November. Getting lucky drops should never play a factor in who gets into your random group.

#137 stilym

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

this turned out to be a awesome update (i did expect that). so much easier to do progress and dailies with PUGs and its even more beneficial for guild groups. I have multiple chars with 20-30 AR, its so cool that i can switch freely between them mid-run if we need something specific in some fractals. We need ranged DPS i get on my ranger, asura - 30 secs and im on my guardian reflecting stuff and giving stability, dredge - im stealth running bombs with a thief. finish up maw with whatever char i want the daily/progress.

disconnects are no longer a problem and neither are overflows.

also, you can set up a easy fractal to start with while waiting for that person that always needs 2 more mins before we start :D

Getting people in your group with no/low resistance doing levels way bigger then they really are on, is practically a non-issue. Contrary to complaints from some people here (mostly those that just complain about everything for the sake of complaining about something :D), this happens very, very rarely. A level 5 with no resistance has no reason to play level 20, he doesnt get lvl 20 loot, only gains 1 level on completion, dies more, all fractals take longer etc. And almost nobody does it. I PUG every day 20s/30s/40s, it is a non-issue. The level of play did not decrease. Just because you had a bad run after the update, doesnt mean the update itself was bad or the reason for your fail. On average it happened the same before the update, i used to get undergeared players in our groups at about the same rate as now. these hypothetical swarms of noobs that destroy the elite 20/30/whatever club, wasting countless hours of their own time, with no benefit for them, just to spite you simply do not exist.

Im almost never asked to ping my AR either. If i am, i just do it. whats the freakin big deal.
if it turns out that some people dont want to play with me because of my gear choice, whats the big deal, thousands of other groups/players out there that will.

Great update, great solution to level-fragmentation and disconnect problems, end of story. stop making stuff up and/or making such a big deal from those very rare occurrences when something like this happens. Even if it does happen and you end up with a 0AR player on level 40, just replace him :). Level and quality of play actually improved quite a bit, with less restrictive, disconnect-fail free and more fun system.

TL:DR; after extensive testing the update is hear by declared - brilliant. woohoo!

Edited by stilym, 13 February 2013 - 08:08 PM.


#138 Omedon

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostDarkobra, on 13 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Getting lucky drops should never play a factor in who gets into your random group.

Unless that's the criteria of the living person, with individual standards, forming said group.

Again, we are not entitled to each other, that's not what was bought with the game.  An opportunity to play together was what was bought, and getting past each others' opinions of "you can group with me" is not something ArenaNet can sell anyone.  Find another group.

Edited by Omedon, 13 February 2013 - 08:48 PM.

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#139 Darkobra

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:54 PM

Luck is never a factor to determine skill. Ever.

#140 Sitriel

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostDarkobra, on 13 February 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Luck is never a factor to determine skill. Ever.
Actually, placing any value in the number of Shards of Crystallized Mists Essence - something I would actually have more of if I regularly let my team down and used MF gear instead of performance gear - serves as an indicator for negative skill and most of all critical lack of intelligence. I would gladly walk away from that team and never look back. Talking about a last second save. ;)

#141 Illein

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

Way more annoyed at the fact that I get nothing (0 yellows, 0 exotics, 0 weapon skins) out of my Level 50 runs.

I don't know why, but somehow they just seem way too keen on not rewarding the players. *shrugs*

#142 G L J

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

View PostIllein, on 14 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Way more annoyed at the fact that I get nothing (0 yellows, 0 exotics, 0 weapon skins) out of my Level 50 runs.

I don't know why, but somehow they just seem way too keen on not rewarding the players. *shrugs*

I haven't done any fractals in the past week because of this. There's just no loot in the fractals :(

#143 Illein

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

View PostG L J, on 14 February 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

I haven't done any fractals in the past week because of this. There's just no loot in the fractals :(

Depends, I've got others in my group who pull out 6-10 yellows/1-2 exotics in some fractal (singular) easily - just for me, they usually drop nothing but green/blue. Which makes it kinda disheartening - L50 doesn't feel any different than say 10 if you know the mechanics and neither does the loot.

Expected more of the "personal reward progression". Hope that'll get better in the future.

#144 KodakMoment

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostIllein, on 14 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Way more annoyed at the fact that I get nothing (0 yellows, 0 exotics, 0 weapon skins) out of my Level 50 runs.

I don't know why, but somehow they just seem way too keen on not rewarding the players. *shrugs*

Wait how are you doing fractal 50? I've made it to level 49 and from what i've heard the agony is 1k% and it is reapplied after you ress starting at level 50 so that would mean ress orbs/99%/pet won't work

#145 Illein

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:58 AM

View PostKodakMoment, on 14 February 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wait how are you doing fractal 50? I've made it to level 49 and from what i've heard the agony is 1k% and it is reapplied after you ress starting at level 50 so that would mean ress orbs/99%/pet won't work

After the patch we only do level 48 runs right now, but it's pretty much the same. Equally unrewarding ;)

#146 KodakMoment

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:31 AM

View PostIllein, on 15 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

After the patch we only do level 48 runs right now, but it's pretty much the same. Equally unrewarding ;)

48 isn't the same as 50 because you take way more agony. oh well knew you were lying anyway

#147 Illein

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:37 AM

View PostKodakMoment, on 15 February 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

48 isn't the same as 50 because you take way more agony. oh well knew you were lying anyway

Man, you're nitpicky today. Let's settle for "max level" then? Because it is currently max level and the rewards suck, which was my entire point before you thought you saw behind some great conspiracy ;)

I don't live through ANY agony to begin with 40+, so it really doesn't matter at all to me. If they didn't patch L50 you could just go through it as you can go through 40+ and it'd not be a big deal. So if you say 50 is any harder than 48, no it really isn't - except that NOW it's impossible due to the changes they've installed.

Not really sure what your point is.

Edited by Illein, 15 February 2013 - 08:38 AM.


#148 KodakMoment

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

View PostIllein, on 15 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Man, you're nitpicky today. Let's settle for "max level" then? Because it is currently max level and the rewards suck, which was my entire point before you thought you saw behind some great conspiracy ;)

I don't live through ANY agony to begin with 40+, so it really doesn't matter at all to me. If they didn't patch L50 you could just go through it as you can go through 40+ and it'd not be a big deal. So if you say 50 is any harder than 48, no it really isn't - except that NOW it's impossible due to the changes they've installed.

Not really sure what your point is.

Not sure why you are getting offended? You kept mentioning earlier you were doing lvl 50 and I wanted to see how you were doing lvl 50, but you weren't so end of story

#149 Illein

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:46 AM

View PostKodakMoment, on 15 February 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Not sure why you are getting offended? You kept mentioning earlier you were doing lvl 50 and I wanted to see how you were doing lvl 50, but you weren't so end of story

Not sure where you read I got offended. Will make sure to complain about L49 loot in the future then when I am trying to make the point of the reward system simply sucking. But since you're L49 too - maybe you want to share how it drops for you. Maybe I am just unlucky, which isn't entirely impossible either - since others in my groups usually loot at least decently.

Though I assume they kind of messed up the whole loot tables with their introduction of "everyone can come" - I don't know, sometimes feels like they'll take the average level of that whole group or something, instead of rewarding every single player for his own personal reward level.

#150 AKGeo

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 12 February 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

what are you talking about? I have my rings for my guardian and my ranger. I also have rings for my Engineer but i don't want to put infusion in them because they are not exactly what i want. The white stats got vitality in them and i don't want to waste 150 relics fractal to put two infusion that i will only use for a short period of time. I was really unlucky with these rings. I got two berserker rings and 1 Rabid rings, the rest of the rings i got always had some stats that i really don't care so put them on character that i don't use in fractal. Its not my fault if i had bought 4 rings for two of my character which cost me 40 pristine. (BTW after level 48 if you want to go higher you can't do daily anymore)

The stats you get in rings are quite irrelevant compared to the AR. And 75 relics per ring for a versatile simple is blah. Priorities, man. I now have three characters with two infused rings each, and 6 more rings in my bank waiting for my other three characters to get some attention/get to level 80. The stats are secondary to having that easybutton 20AR on-hand so I can go into anything up to 30 with whatever profession I want.




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