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Allowing anyone into any level of fractals: WRONG


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#151 JulianCasablancas

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:30 PM

View PostThaddeuz, on 12 February 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

(BTW after level 48 if you want to go higher you can't do daily anymore)


Isn't it possible to survive Jade Maw though? Esp with a guild team. You could run 1-2 guards with Tome of Courage and a Mesmer with Time Warp to help them cast their party heals. Maw doesn't heal up when you wipe so even if it takes 2-3 tries you can still do even levels.

Not that I've tried it myself, good job getting to level freakin 68.

#152 G L J

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:08 PM

View PostJulianCasablancas, on 17 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Isn't it possible to survive Jade Maw though? Esp with a guild team. You could run 1-2 guards with Tome of Courage and a Mesmer with Time Warp to help them cast their party heals. Maw doesn't heal up when you wipe so even if it takes 2-3 tries you can still do even levels.

Not that I've tried it myself, good job getting to level freakin 68.

I haven't done 50 since the patch, but I'm under the impression that the base damage per tick is somewhere in the thousand **percent**, so you pretty much instantly die the second you get it on you.

edit: clarity

Edited by G L J, 17 February 2013 - 11:19 PM.


#153 Wordsworth

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:31 AM

I kind of don't see the point in adding a built in barrier for players when you could just as easily use your own selection methods like gear checking. Sorry if up to 12 random players who want to play Fractals are not up to your expectations, but dividing the players further is not the direction any game should go.

I just completed level 14 today with 0 AR and it was my first Fractals run in weeks. I died twice, but no wipes.

Still don't know what a "spykit" is though, and there are Pristine relics. Changes everywhere.

#154 Thaddeuz

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:23 PM

View PostAKGeo, on 17 February 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

The stats you get in rings are quite irrelevant compared to the AR. And 75 relics per ring for a versatile simple is blah. Priorities, man. I now have three characters with two infused rings each, and 6 more rings in my bank waiting for my other three characters to get some attention/get to level 80. The stats are secondary to having that easybutton 20AR on-hand so I can go into anything up to 30 with whatever profession I want.

AR is irrelevant for me. I pretty much always play at level 48 with my guildmates, even when i play with an alt. At this point 0 or 30 AR it make no difference. The only time i don't do level 48 for my daily is when nobody of my team is online or when i play with a friend low level in fractal.

View PostJulianCasablancas, on 17 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Isn't it possible to survive Jade Maw though? Esp with a guild team. You could run 1-2 guards with Tome of Courage and a Mesmer with Time Warp to help them cast their party heals. Maw doesn't heal up when you wipe so even if it takes 2-3 tries you can still do even levels.

Not that I've tried it myself, good job getting to level freakin 68.

You can't survive Jade Maw agony at level 40+. But between 40 and 48 you can use trick to revive someone (ranger's pet, revive him to 99% and revive the 1% just as the agony kick in or use a revive orb), this way someone is still alive and can rez the 4 other. And several of these tricks were use before the path to do any level of fractal pass 40. But now, you can only do that between level 40 and 48. At level 50, you can still revive someone but the agony will kick in again on him. Maybe if you revive every person like 10 times you could pass level 50 i never tried and don't plan to do. The time before the agony kill you is really short. Maybe you could use guardian and Mesmer to keep someone alive during the level 40, but i would not help in later level (1 tick kill you so no reaction time here), and way easier and safer way exist to pass the agony of Jade Maw in level 40-48

Edited by Thaddeuz, 18 February 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#155 Strawberry Nubcake

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

View PostWordsworth, on 18 February 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Still don't know what a "spykit" is though, and there are Pristine relics. Changes everywhere.
http://wiki.guildwar..._Legion_Spy_Kit

People use them on the dredge level to make opening the door easier.  Most groups I've been in recently wouldn't be able to get past that map without them since people want to stand around in derp mode instead of keeping the mobs off whoever is working on opening the door.

#156 G L J

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

View PostStrawberry Nubcake, on 18 February 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

http://wiki.guildwar..._Legion_Spy_Kit

People use them on the dredge level to make opening the door easier.  Most groups I've been in recently wouldn't be able to get past that map without them since people want to stand around in derp mode instead of keeping the mobs off whoever is working on opening the door.

It's not derp mode, it's just an understood unstated rule that the people doing the damage sensitive tasks that require you to remain still should be running the spy kits. If the tool makes the task significantly easier, why wouldn't you use the tool? For that matter, if the use of the tool is the standard, why would you say they're running derp mode for expecting the use of the tool?

at level 38 you're going to need them for:
1. frozen - lighting the bonfire, the NPC mobs reach the point of oneshotting tanks at level 28
2. dredge - opening the pressure switch door, because taking a single hit will reset your progress.
3. dredge - operating the welding guns, if no one aggroes the dredge at this stage they reset and disappear after you finish
4. dredge - boss fight, in case the lever operator draws aggro he/she can use a kit to dump aggro before the boss's leash is completely screwed up
5 reviving people - being invisible keeps bosses/mobs from targeting you so it makes reviving someone significantly easier.

#157 Lordkrall

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

And what will happen when ArenaNet decide to remove the ability to use those kits in Dungeons? :)
Better to learn to actually play the game than using cheap methods that require no skill nor thinking.

#158 G L J

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:32 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 18 February 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

And what will happen when ArenaNet decide to remove the ability to use those kits in Dungeons? :)
Better to learn to actually play the game than using cheap methods that require no skill nor thinking.

Arenanet hasn't ever removed a consumable item from PvE for balance reasons. The only area where they have removed consumables from for balancing concerns is World vs World, since they can create a ridiculous advantage against other players. So the proper term is IF arenanet decides to remove them from the game.

And even then, players don't generally get to the levels where they're actually necessary (35+) without knowing how to do the content the brute force way. It's like using power tools when you're working on construction; Power tools don't replace the proper fundamentals, so just because you have them it doesn't mean that you don't need to understand how it works. The use of power tools may help you speed the construction along, but if you're building something without the proper supports or trying to put up a ceiling without a load bearing beam then you're a fool. I can understand why people would think that tools replace the fundamentals, but it's dumb and wrong.

But, that's just my opinion. I'm sure people vilify speed runs and karma trains too.

Edited by G L J, 18 February 2013 - 11:40 PM.


#159 Lordkrall

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:07 AM

If something is broken (which I would say that this spy kit is, especially when it simplify a part of a dungeon that is supposed to require coordination, sooner or later they will most likely react to it. And hopefully that means they will remove the ability to use them in Dungeons.

#160 AKGeo

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

Spy kits are a karma sink, they don't last long enough in one use to perform specific tasks so you need to spam them, there's no UI countdown so you're not getting full efficiency, AND you need to stay completely still to get their effect. It's not like you can spam them while running around doing whatever you want. All those put together means that they're not an exploit worthy of being nerfed/removed.

What I don't get is why people use them at fractal level 15 or thereabouts with the blizzard fires. Plenty of CC out there to keep from being one-shotted by the GS warrior svanir. drop a reflecting wall to get their opening attack, drop caltrops to limit their spin range, mesmer focus skill 4 or guardian staff skill 5 helps immensely. Distraction with clones. Fear. mass blind. I've done that part at level 28 just fine without spy kits even on my thief.

#161 DarkGanni

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

Didn't think this would be a problem since I was mostly blinded cause I always do Fractals with friends, but then for the past 3 days fractals with pugs have become horrible and a simple level 12 seemed so hard with them. Explaining tactics at Cliffside is almost impossible. Nevertheless asking people to link their AR rings especially at higher levels, seems the best solution. :-)

Not sure what's with people and spy kits in the Svanir fractal. Done it perfectly without at level 33, all that's needed are a few defensive skills, the best ideas already posted by OP in above post.


PS: Spy kits are perfectly balanced but people seem to use them at the very first scratch.




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