160 replies to this topic

[Red Sonya]

Darkobra, on 04 February 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

I'm not going to read this and instantly assume you've not answered any of my questions. The fact that you have to type alternative words in caps to make it sound important pretty much says it all.

But I will tell you this. There has been a number of times I've been reading the forums and I agree with what's being said. Things are lacking. I don't voice them. Someone else has done it for me. I'm actually worried about how you're such an avid defender of this game and refuse to acknowledge any flaws presented. When such flaws are presented to you in an articulate and constructive manner, you seem to cover your ears and instead spam the caps lock. After all, you want your voice heard.

Being loud does not mean you're right. It just means you're proud of being the only voice in the room. A spectacular self-appointed community representative. Hell, you're hardly even keeping me intellectually challenged when I asked you the simple question: Have you not read a post on this forum and agreed with it, even if you haven't voiced your concerns yourself?

I'll not be responding to you further until you can actually be mature and intelligent about anything and start seeing both sides of the argument rather than spamming caps hoping I'll go away.

Once again this is not about the issues brought up in this thread. This is about YOU nor anyone here being THE COMMUNITY of gamers that play the game. You don't seem to comprehend so therefore there's no use even to continue to discuss what I already know and YOU DON'T. You don't represent anyone but YOURSELF, so please refrain from using words like the COMMUNITY wants it this way as YOU nor anyone else here represents the COMMUNITY. When you stop trying to be the BLOCK WARDEN then I will listen to your issues and then comment on them. Though because this is a GAME they are rather moot points anyways because ANET is going to make the game for what the MAJORITY want not some insignificants on any forum or thread.

[Strawberry Nubcake]

Serris, on 04 February 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

still beats not finding a group for your own difficulty.

I agree, but joining a group for a level you will likely get eaten alive in because you're inexperienced and/or lack the AR needed for survival is irresponsible.  (Irresponsible isn't really the word I was looking for...)  I'm not saying that you do this, but it seems like some players are doing stuff like that and I can understand why the people having to carry dead weight through higher level fractals might be pissed.

I started taking another character through since the update and decided to stick to fractals near my level even though pretty much everyone told me I would be fine in 10-19 without AR because I had experience.  It felt like the right thing to do.  I'm also a little lazy and I don't feel like dealing with slightly more difficult battles while my loot level is so low.  

[Trei]

I think Anet could simply add requirement checks into the upcoming LFG panel itself they say they are working on.
One plausible way to make it so that if one does not meet your group requirements, he would simply not even get to see your listing.

[AKGeo]

Red Sonya, on 04 February 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Just like in GW1 Money or coin is EASY to come by if you know how. It's not my responsibility to make sure you have enough money for repairs but the game design is about "playing" not looking up my skirt. Therefore no you won't be doing that. Plus the more restrictions you place on what players should and shouldn't have the more time you will WASTE waiting for a group to play with. It's a FRICKING GAME igmo play it like one and not like it's a part of your life and you just can't fail ever. It just amazes me how some put sooooooooo much into a silly game. Learn to FAIL and you will go far in life.

You won't succumb to gear checks, you leave my group. It's that simple. You can go fail elsewhere. I've failed many a time in the game, many times were my fault, but I've improved on my skills and decided not to make others fail due to my being underequipped for the content. All I ask is that you give me the same consideration. But it's plain to see that you'll gladly troll a level 25 group with your measly 5 AR thinking you've got the SKILLZ to handle the agony, or that your crew will rez you in the middle of fighting for their own lives. That's not team playing, that's being a selfish little shit without any consideration for others.

[VanderBeltLegacy]

To Be Honest, i think A-Net should of not implemented this(im only lvl 5 fractal), but instead Implented higher reward/karma for thos who HELP IN LOWER LEVEL fractals then what they sit at,
im no elitist, i damn right should be kicking my own a** for sitting back at when fractals first came out saying to myself "i want all achievements before i progress"...
now i 100% agree anet has not thought this through and it needs to be removed, i dont want to go in levels higher then i am experienced with, and wouldnt mind lower level get to my level, as long as im rewarded better for going back 1 or 4 levels and helping them
and when A-Net announced "so you can join your guildies at the level" i felt like /facepalm what guild wont help there lower fractal level buddy/guildie get to a higher level..
no they have just made some elitist system that will soon turn into "level 20 fractal group, MUST SHOW GEAR" so it wont help any at all about helping people level fractals higher, it will just make it so people with ascended gear can smash through it with higher level teams, why those in the back trying to catch up, get left there(probably).

[AKGeo]

VanderBeltLegacy, on 05 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

To Be Honest, i think A-Net should of not implemented this(im only lvl 5 fractal), but instead Implented higher reward/karma for thos who HELP IN LOWER LEVEL fractals then what they sit at,
im no elitist, i damn right should be kicking my own a** for sitting back at when fractals first came out saying to myself "i want all achievements before i progress"...
now i 100% agree anet has not thought this through and it needs to be removed, i dont want to go in levels higher then i am experienced with, and wouldnt mind lower level get to my level, as long as im rewarded better for going back 1 or 4 levels and helping them
and when A-Net announced "so you can join your guildies at the level" i felt like /facepalm what guild wont help there lower fractal level buddy/guildie get to a higher level..
no they have just made some elitist system that will soon turn into "level 20 fractal group, MUST SHOW GEAR" so it wont help any at all about helping people level fractals higher, it will just make it so people with ascended gear can smash through it with higher level teams, why those in the back trying to catch up, get left there(probably).

So first you say that guildies SHOULD be helping their lower level people advance, then you say that lower level people are going to be left behind.

I support the idea that people at higher levels should be able to be "elitist", for those higher levels. I also believe that they should assist people in leveling up, by going to lower levels and assisting. Not by bringing their low level guildies along in a level 15 while pugging the remaining slots. I had exactly that...a first-timer brought along by two guildies at level 14 and myself and one other pug.

[Zhaitan]

The true fractal levels are actually 1, 10, 20, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50..... rest is fluff - a mere illusion of progression/content. I don't know why anet decided to go with such 1,2,3,4,5,6,......48,49,50 etc. instead of simple levels in Fractals like 1,2,3,4,5. At Lvl 1, 0 agony, at lvl 2, 10 agony (can survive with 5 Agony Resist), at lvl 3, (20 AR will be needed), at lvl 4, 30 AR and then healing power takes over. Maybe they felt that 50 sounds better than 5 when it comes to stroking one's epeen.

I found diminishing returns in fractals after lvl 28. Individual experiences may very. I found absolutely no benefit in running anything above 30. It's annoying and rewards are simply BS. The new update has made it even more problematic.

[Darkobra]

I've found that myself. I've been seeing less and less reason to do Fractals. It was initially for the Ascended jewellery. Now what? We can now get them from Laurels and one day from crafting.

I'm actually thinking of switching out my agony resist infusions with the other Laurel-based ones. I don't have a reason to do Fractals anymore. The only reason you need agony resist is to do MORE Fractals for more Fractal-based progression rewards. I'd much rather have more power to do other dungeons and the rest of the game.

Agony serves no purpose in Fractals themselves other than as a way to slow us down from burning out on the content. Difficulty alone should have done that. This is simply a case of "How much have you played?" as opposed to "How skilled are you?"

[Hex65000]

Trei, on 05 February 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

I think Anet could simply add requirement checks into the upcoming LFG panel itself they say they are working on.
One plausible way to make it so that if one does not meet your group requirements, he would simply not even get to see your listing.

No. Just, No. That will simply foster the culture of gearchecks that is bad enough already. If I want that crap. I'll play that Blizzard game, or do CoF1 with a bunch of doorknobs who want to speedrun all week.

I haven't had the honor of being gearchecked yet, but I'm thinking the lucky winner will have to go back to LFG because I'm not putting up with that garbage. End of story.

Hex.
[ Does okay doing his own thing... ]

[G L J]

Hex65000, on 05 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

No. Just, No. That will simply foster the culture of gearchecks that is bad enough already. If I want that crap. I'll play that Blizzard game, or do CoF1 with a bunch of doorknobs who want to speedrun all week.

I haven't had the honor of being gearchecked yet, but I'm thinking the lucky winner will have to go back to LFG because I'm not putting up with that garbage. End of story.

Hex.
[ Does okay doing his own thing... ]

It's not elitist to gear check someone.
It is elitist when the gear check is unreasonable.

Agony resistance is mandatory in fractals above 20. It is unreasonable to expect someone without agony resistance to survive against bosses at these levels. Some bosses, in particular the Dredge Powersuit and the Jade Maw throw out agony like it's candy. In these situations bringing someone without agony resistance is essentially doing the boss with 4 people. I don't know if I made it obvious, but it's a real pain in the ass.

The basic concept behind the gear check is that there is an expected proficiency at certain areas of the game, and that gear is the quickest way to gauge someone's proficiency. It isn't always accurate, but it's a start. After all, if you have 30 agony resistance (250 ecto price tag right there) then you've probably sunk quite a bit of time into the Fractals of the Mists. Likewise, someone with 250 dungeon tokens is probably knowledgeable on the basic workings of the dungeon.

Gear checking, in it's most distilled nature, is simply asking someone to know what they are doing. Perhaps the person doesn't want to have to explain the workings of the dungeon in a fight? Perhaps they just want to get through the run as quickly as possible and be on their way? Yes, there are people that ask for unreasonable gear checks, but unreasonable people are everywhere.

So, is it elitist to ask someone for proof that they know what they're doing and are capable of completing the content competently? Not until the burden of proof becomes extreme. I don't like to consider myself an elitist, but I'm still going to gear check people for my level 30+ fractals.

Edited by unraveled, 09 February 2013 - 12:09 AM.
Removed off topic content.

[AKGeo]

Hex65000, on 05 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

No. Just, No. That will simply foster the culture of gearchecks that is bad enough already. If I want that crap. I'll play that Blizzard game, or do CoF1 with a bunch of doorknobs who want to speedrun all week.

I haven't had the honor of being gearchecked yet, but I'm thinking the lucky winner will have to go back to LFG because I'm not putting up with that garbage. End of story.

Hex.
[ Does okay doing his own thing... ]

The guy above me put it well, so I'll just add this little bit: You'll be okay doing your own thing in someone else's group. No shortage of players willing to link their pink. Most do it for the bragging rights. That's fine with me. If they're competent enough to be *y, they're competent enough to complete.

Edited by AKGeo, 06 February 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[Trei]

Hex65000, on 05 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

No. Just, No. That will simply foster the culture of gearchecks that is bad enough already. If I want that crap. I'll play that Blizzard game, or do CoF1 with a bunch of doorknobs who want to speedrun all week.

I haven't had the honor of being gearchecked yet, but I'm thinking the lucky winner will have to go back to LFG because I'm not putting up with that garbage. End of story.

Hex.
[ Does okay doing his own thing... ]

My apologies, I didn't mean that kind of check.
More along the lines of simple tick boxes for only a few categories in the future LFG panel - agony resist, level range.

Much like how say BF3 lets you list servers you want to be displayed by putting in filters like Punkbuster (PB) yes/no, Hardcore (skull) yes/no, Map Rotation yes/no... etc  and it will only display servers that matches your criteria.

In my suggestion's case, this filter is automatically set for the individual LFG'er depending on whether he does possess the requirements - agony resist 5 / 10 / 15 etc... character level. He can only see group LFMs that fits his own level of play.

The LFM group leader on the other end can then customise his view list to filter out players who do not meet his requirements.

Edited by Trei, 06 February 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[Noob On Steroid]

Isn't this entire "problem" something that'll solve itself by properly explaining the (new) mechanics behind fractal levels?

There is zero advantage for anyone when a low-level player joins a high level team.
Not for the low-level player, since he still only gets his low-level reward, but he dies all over the place (so he actually earns less, because of repair costs), and not for the team, since they're essentially a man down.

You don't need a ton of restrictions, you just need to inform people and let common sense do the rest.

Quote

They should do it in tiers: 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 etc. Painfully obvious to everyone except Anet apparently.

I disagree, since this will harm organized teams when they want to "shake up professions". You can transfer ascended gear to your alts and hop right into whatever high level fractal your group is going to tackle, without having to go through the hassle of leveling past a barrier.

Like I said before, when someone joins a high-level pug, simply ask them if they understand what they're getting into. If they still join you without any agony resistance for pitiful rewards, then you had the rotten luck of picking up a complete idiot. Shit happens when you pug, and that's not all gear-based

[Desild]

DId Fractals 24 with 0 Agony Resistance the other day. Only died once. Against the Ice Elemental in the Dredge fractal the very same night before they fixed its agony bug. This wouldn't be possible before the patch, and now I'm catching up with my group who have more fractal levels than me.

No rings yet.

I just don't see what the fuss is all about. Only certain boss mechanics have agony. Once you figure out which ones, you can avoid them.

Edited by Desild, 06 February 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[Shiren]

Desild, on 06 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

DId Fractals 24 with 0 Agony Resistance the other day. Only died once. Against the Ice Elemental in the Dredge fractal the very same night before they fixed its agony bug. This wouldn't be possible before the patch, and now I'm catching up with my group who have more fractal levels than me.

No rings yet.

I just don't see what the fuss is all about. Only certain boss mechanics have agony. Once you figure out which ones, you can avoid them.

I don't think you can avoid Jade Maw agony.

When you pug you get lots of bad players, people who cant live through an AC run (most of FotM below level 20 is much easier than AC though). When you come across agony with players who clearly have no resistance, it's a disaster, especially when they can't avoid it. Combine that with people who are terrible at completing fractals efficiently now allowed in at any level and you have a new puging experience which has people taking 2+ hours to do what an experienced group (all groups previously were experienced) and often geared group can do in less than 1 hour.

[raspberry jam]

It's interesting how many people complained about rank discrimination in GW1's HA. It's also interesting to see how little ANet learned from their mistakes.

[Red_Falcon]

I welcome this change.

Some people like me have many lvl 80s.
I don't want to do fractal lvl 1 on my alts when I can easily do 10-12-14 without dying before I start getting AR.

Plus some people like me have friends.
I don't want my friends to be unable to play with me because they are ONE freaking level below or above me.

If you need to do your gearchecks/skillchecks/requirements do them - but it will be ALL useless.
I've had people with 20AR die in fractal 10 and people with 0 AR never die in fractal 18.
Having unlocked an higher fractal means nothing, some people just dont learn they stand back and DPS randomly letting others do the work so when you meet them at high lvl fract they are still lvl 1 noobs as a matter of fact.

The solution to this is stop PUGging, and stop demanding that everything must go smooth every time.
Sometimes even the most skilled people get cheese'd from full to defeated.
For instance even with 20AR vs the Mining suit I was surrounded by  bomb circles so that even dodging wont help me get to a safe spot; I still dodged timely yet bombs still hit me in the middle of dodging (bug?), then he blows me up in one second immediately upon downed.
You cannot possibly avoid something like the above (albeit it's very rare to fall into all those variables/bugs at once).

Edited by Red_Falcon, 06 February 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[beadnbutter32]

AKGeo, on 31 January 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Oh I do run with guildies. But my guild is full of casual players. Because I get along with casual players most. And casual means that they're not always online when I am. I can't slight them for that and I'm not going to dilute my guild population with grinders and "QQ moar" *s. Like you.

Lack of social success...was that truly necessary?

Fair point, even with decent sized guilds, if one is on a level X Fractal tear, PUGing will still be necessary

No amount of gear checks and level requirements will ever change the nature of PUGs,

Every time you dip into the PUG player base, your going to get some winners and some losers.

In PUGs you don't really know the other players.  You don't know who is skilled, who is a stumble bum, and who likes to hang back and ride coat-tails.  

How you deal with those situations socially defines you in a MMORPG.

If you rage quit rather than try to organize a dis-organized group that defines you.  If you start each run by interrogating each member about their gear and then judge them before ever seeing how they perform, that defines you.  If a team member is not performing well, do immediately boot them and blacklist them forever, even if unknown to you, they were just having a bad night, and usually perform well, if you do that defines you. If you place objective goals (fast and profitable speed runs) ahead of social interaction and casual fun play, that defines you.  If you are not progressing as fast as you would like in Fractal levels, do you blame and QQ about PUGs, or do you recognize things are 'working as intended" that Fractal progression is supposed to be a challenge you don't breeze through.

These types of behaviors define you and your level of social skills.

[G L J]

Desild, on 06 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

DId Fractals 24 with 0 Agony Resistance the other day. Only died once. Against the Ice Elemental in the Dredge fractal the very same night before they fixed its agony bug. This wouldn't be possible before the patch, and now I'm catching up with my group who have more fractal levels than me.

No rings yet.

I just don't see what the fuss is all about. Only certain boss mechanics have agony. Once you figure out which ones, you can avoid them.

edit: fair warning, I'm not exactly sure this post is very coherent, I wrote it a bit after I woke up. My apologies

Fractals don't really start getting difficult until level 28. That's where the Norn in the first part of Snowblind reach the ability to kill you in two seconds, which requires unique methods of dealing with the situation (ala Ash Spy Kits). From personal experience, I believe that it marks a dynamic shift in the though process (if the shift hadn't occurred before) in that you can no longer simply power through the dungeons and instead work on optimizing your paths and playing them smart. The guardian, for example, is pretty much forced into bringing double reflections/absorbs in certain areas to protect his team from face melting damage.

You, and I mean this in an honest way, can probably do far more than the average pug can. For most people, jumping straight into higher levels means that they have not observed the mechanics before. Even if they have, the margin for error shrinks as they go higher in the fractals. If you can do it, and I believe you can, then more power to you. However, just because you can, doesn't mean that the average pug can as well. Also, we need to differentiate a PuG group and a guild group, as the guild group is often better coordinated, has a higher skill level, and is far more tolerant of mistakes.

That's why most pugs gear check for high level fractals (30+). If they ask about your highest fractal level, you can lie. If they ask about your experience in the group, you can lie. In fact, lots of pugs believe they are amazing but are in fact completely terrible. So pug groups ask for something that intrinsically equates to experience in the most basic form - it's not easy to lie about gear.

But here's what really irks me. I didn't gear check people until people started lying about how far they have gotten. I should not have to deal with a moron with zero experience trying to work his way into a level 36 fractal. I do not mind teaching someone about the fractals if they are honest about it but, by and large, most people are not honest about it. I've become the villain, because I've been forced to gear check to protect my interests. My requests aren't unreasonable - know the subject and have time invested to prove it - and yet I still get called an elitist.

Edited by G L J, 06 February 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[AKGeo]

It's not just a matter of "that guy died once, he must have no AR and it's gotta be his first time".

It's the people who obviously don't know what's going on. You can tell when this is the case. Yes, experienced people get bad breaks. But when someone's always on the ground anywhere other than Uncategorized (the frenetic nature of that fractal I can excuse constant-downed players...you have to jump AND avoid arrows and huge sparkly balls of death), it gets old fast. And when you're at level 18 in Uncategorized, and people run RIGHT IN and aggro Old Tom...that shows me something as well. These are the types of people I'm referring to. Gear checks tell me that you're experienced to some degree. You might have been one of those who followed the coattails of others. But it's hard to do that consistently and still remain in groups long enough to complete.

Oh and in about 15 more days, the gear check will require more than one ascended item...and after that it'll require an upgraded ring at the very least, considering the ability to obtain that gear without stepping foot in fractals. That's just how it is.

No I don't expect the runs to go off without a hitch. But I do expect people in higher levels to know what they're doing. Again: it's a point of mutual consideration. Don't gimp yourself by gimping your team. And as mentioned earlier by someone else: the drops aren't going to be any better for you.

[Thaddeuz]

AKGeo, on 31 January 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

Ok now. After three failed pugs at fractals level 14(!) in a row, i'm done pugging in fractals. Why? Because there are level 1's jumping in there without agony resist, with greens, with no clue wtf they're doing, and it's costing me and everyone else time and coin in armor repairs trying to carry them. I'm not elitist, I just think that if there's going to be a gated mechanic like agony, there needs to be a way to ensure that an underequipped player doesn't tear the team down. So, I say either

A: display agony resistance for each player when you hover over their icons in the party list.

B: If you're level 1-10, you can't join a group at level 11 or higher. Any level up to 10 is fine.

C: You can't join a group more than 5 levels higher than yours without a set amount of agony resist. This of course would only be required for fractals level 10 or higher.

Because this is just bananas.

I had zero AR until level 17 and did just fine (i'm level 68 right now btw). I don't plan to put AR on my Engineer (level 16 right now) until i got enough pristine to bought the two rings i want for him. Ya i know i'm pretty unlucky, i got none of the rings i wanted for my Guardian, my Ranger or my Engineer and i had to buy rings for both my Guardian and Rangers.

FYI, AR is only a training wheel because latter Agony will one shot you anyway (level 40+)

[Dasviidonja]

Desild, on 06 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

DId Fractals 24 with 0 Agony Resistance the other day. Only died once. Against the Ice Elemental in the Dredge fractal the very same night before they fixed its agony bug. This wouldn't be possible before the patch, and now I'm catching up with my group who have more fractal levels than me.

No rings yet.

I just don't see what the fuss is all about. Only certain boss mechanics have agony. Once you figure out which ones, you can avoid them.

I agree it would seem several people here are making mountains out of mole hills. I also don't agree with any form of inspection of players before going on a mission. It just makes elitists more elitiest.

[AKGeo]

Desild, on 06 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

DId Fractals 24 with 0 Agony Resistance the other day. Only died once. Against the Ice Elemental in the Dredge fractal the very same night before they fixed its agony bug. This wouldn't be possible before the patch, and now I'm catching up with my group who have more fractal levels than me.

No rings yet.

I just don't see what the fuss is all about. Only certain boss mechanics have agony. Once you figure out which ones, you can avoid them.

It's more than agony resistance. Agony resistance is a mechanic that not only allows you to survive the boss encounters easier, but also allows you to gauge the caliber of your teammates with no other factors made available. I don't know if a pug I pick up is going to be able to run level 24 at all, much less without AR. But having a ring or two already tells me that they've got experience in the dungeon. Experience is what I'm mostly looking for, not just AR. The AR just allows me to see that experience more than just "hey are you experienced?"

[G L J]

Thaddeuz, on 08 February 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I had zero AR until level 17 and did just fine (i'm level 68 right now btw). I don't plan to put AR on my Engineer (level 16 right now) until i got enough pristine to bought the two rings i want for him. Ya i know i'm pretty unlucky, i got none of the rings i wanted for my Guardian, my Ranger or my Engineer and i had to buy rings for both my Guardian and Rangers.

FYI, AR is only a training wheel because latter Agony will one shot you anyway (level 40+)

I'm fine with not having much Agony resistance at early levels, I recognize the fact that people often dont get lucky and have to wait the full 10 days to buy their first ring. However, is a difference between doing level 10 with zero AR and doing level 30 with 20 AR. The levels where agony is murderous, but survivable with gear, should be gear checked, if only to make sure that people don't go into areas that are well over their heads.

Dasviidonja, on 08 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

I agree it would seem several people here are making mountains out of mole hills. I also don't agree with any form of inspection of players before going on a mission. It just makes elitists more elitiest.

My earlier response -> http://www.guildwars...90#entry2158734

It's not elitist to gear check people as long as the requests are reasonable. I'm not going to demand 15 AR for a level 10 fractal (I'm probably not going to gear check either). I am going to gear check to make sure that you're not going to get one shotted by agony if a boss hits you with multiple stacks.

It's unreasonable to get angry with a gear check if the gear is simply a requirement. Here's a real life example: we're going hiking, have you brought your boots/water/snacks/camera?

Edited by G L J, 09 February 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[Omedon]

As much as I dislike the overall feel of elitism, I'd like to once again point out that GW2 is an individually empowering game, and that that works both ways.

You, the person looking for a group, any group, are not entitled to run with the person with high success rate who happens to want to gear check you.

They, however, are not entitled to block you from seeking out another group.  Nor can their self empowerment put excess weight on their rejecting you: they aren't a tank or healer, something you mechanically require, they're just a successful player.  There are many more.

You bought a game, not free for all access to and acceptance by its community, a community forged one person, and one set of standards at a time.  Some people will line up well together, others will not.  At least in GW2 "that guy's a tank, I NEED him!" isn't in effect.

[Desild]

My post sure lighten up some replies. And I'm sure my post was bland and sound like an elitist "dare to be a badass" to people at low level fractals, or flip off those who think AR is the end all variable to a sucessful Fractal Run. Well, it sorta was.

Before the update, I wouldn't touch Fractals with a ten-foot-pole. Not because I'm a casual player. More out of laziness than anything. And my heavy dislike for PUGs. It just didn't feel right to climb a tiered ladder, and do the whole "chain" of progress for Fractals. I mean, to progress, I would have to find a Fractal 3 group, then a 4, 5, 6 and so on and so forth. That just didn't appealed to me. Now, my group, who are thousands of leagues better than I am, sucked it up and pratically four-manned fractals till level 20-ish. Then news of the patch hit.

I said to myself: "Desild, you should totaly use this marvelous patch and catch up to your friends." The patch came, and I jumped to the fractals experience fully. Started with the level my friends were at, 24, and I was pratically a nervous wreck. I was expecting being outright killed at the first mob pull and become a dead weight for the entire run.

Then it turns out, only certain bosses have Agony mechanics. And they were predictable and avoidable. The whole run proceeded smoothly, only until I hit the Ice Elemental. Noticed I said I only died once, but through out the course of the run I was down plenty of times. Part of a normal dungeon experience.

Now, when a regular player, like myself, wants to progress into Fractals but the only run available is in the twenties, they can compensate their lack of Agony Resistance with sheer skill. Or luck. Same way people reach insane Fractal levels without the proper amount of AR: they out skill the mechanic.

A player should be allowed to prove himself before being casted on judgment. Elistism is never a good thing.

[HawkofStorms]

AKGeo, on 05 February 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

You won't succumb to gear checks, you leave my group. It's that simple. You can go fail elsewhere. I've failed many a time in the game, many times were my fault, but I've improved on my skills and decided not to make others fail due to my being underequipped for the content. All I ask is that you give me the same consideration. But it's plain to see that you'll gladly troll a level 25 group with your measly 5 AR thinking you've got the SKILLZ to handle the agony, or that your crew will rez you in the middle of fighting for their own lives. That's not team playing, that's being a selfish little shit without any consideration for others.

I've beaten several of the hardest dungeons in this game with only rares, while teammates in full exotics died repeatedly.
Heck I beat GW1's final mission with lvl 6 armor once just to see if I could.  Skilled gameplay overcomes numbercrunching in PvE because you are against AI and should always be smarter than them.

Edited by HawkofStorms, 09 February 2013 - 04:10 PM.

[G L J]

I'm just going to link this because Elitism is getting thrown around quite a lot and most people seem to be mislabeling it. Long story short; people are mistaking elitism as poor social skills.

Discussion starts at 11:40
Gear check discussion starts at 15:10

Edited by G L J, 09 February 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[AKGeo]

HawkofStorms, on 09 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I've beaten several of the hardest dungeons in this game with only rares, while teammates in full exotics died repeatedly.
Heck I beat GW1's final mission with lvl 6 armor once just to see if I could.  Skilled gameplay overcomes numbercrunching in PvE because you are against AI and should always be smarter than them.

Once again my point is missed.

Unless joining a group automatically plays a highlight reel of your gaming experience, the gear check is the ONLY evidence I have of your skills.

You can do XYZ...group with people who know you can do that. If you pug, bring the equipment necessary to make that pug feel confident. If you walk into a pug with masterworks or rares, no AR, and do level 15+ fractals, then you're not being a team player. You're using that group to test your own ego...and if the party fails, I'll bet dollars to donuts that you'll blame it on the rest of the team regardless of cause.

Edited by AKGeo, 09 February 2013 - 09:38 PM.

[HawkofStorms]

Yeah, it's MY ego that's the issue when other people are elitists.