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Why I hate games built around PvP and not PvE.


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#31 lalangamena

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

two things,

one- i agree to the general point the OP tries to state,
         classes should be different, not all classes should have the same abilities, homogenization is boring.

two- GW2 actually tries to give the classes a feel that they are different. the only thing we should have is double/triple the CC (cripple, immobilize, chill, stun) duration in PVE as it will lead to more meaningful interesting and different dungeon encounters and will not affect the PVP balance.

#32 Veltoss

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

I didn't read, but the title alone is enough to be irritating. The game was not designed entirely around PvP nor PvE. However, Anet has proven time and time again that they only really care about PvE now. You PvEers have no right to complain. :angry:

#33 FoxBat

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:44 PM

View Postlalangamena, on 02 February 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

two- GW2 actually tries to give the classes a feel that they are different. the only thing we should have is double/triple the CC (cripple, immobilize, chill, stun) duration in PVE as it will lead to more meaningful interesting and different dungeon encounters and will not affect the PVP balance.

I don't buy this either. Anet is so scared of CC versus PvE bosses that they came up with defiant, and occasionally throw in immunity as well. Whether you like it or not, the short CC durations aren't a pure PvP consideration.

If some CC buff were to be done, I think I'd rather see gear that forces players to trade off a stat for longer CC durations. There's supposed to be a "dps/support/control" trinity, except you can hardly spec for control at all beyond piling up a bunch of skills/weapons on your bar.

Edited by FoxBat, 02 February 2013 - 08:48 PM.


#34 lalangamena

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:06 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 02 February 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:


If some CC buff were to be done, I think I'd rather see gear that forces players to trade off a stat for longer CC durations. There's supposed to be a "dps/support/control" trinity, except you can hardly spec for control at all beyond piling up a bunch of skills/weapons on your bar.

I can live with that,
i hope we will be able to get  support roles with condition builds from condition damage+condition duration gear but if they will implement it like the givers armor, nobody will use it, i.e. 1% boon duration on an exotic piece of gear is not enough...
it should be at least on par with critical damage... 8% on two-hander, 3% on jewelery and minor armor pieces, 5% on chest/legs etc...

also  10% stun duration from superior sigil on 0.5 second stun seems to me lacking...

we should be able to reach 100% or more "condition duration" with this stat...

this is just to compare between boon duration/crit damage
http://wiki.guildwar...em_nomenclature

#35 Razamis

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostMethal11, on 01 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

EDIT: This whole thread is proof enough that the PvPers in MMOs are the loudest crybabies. I mean look at the verbal stomping they are trying to give me LOL.

First of all I've played almost every major mmo released since Ultima.

I would rank them in the following order of favorites:

EQ1,
UO,
EQ2,
Vanilla WoW
GW2,
GW1,
DAoC,
LotR,
SWTOR,
Runescape,
ShadowBane.
Final Fantasy XI

But to be honest I'd rank everything under GW2 in the same category.

One thing i've always liked is ranks of difficulty. What I mean about that is having multiple tiers of mobs. Some that are easily killed, some that are unkillable. I think there should always be at least one dragon, or giant, or whatever that can not be killed. Now some may question the point of this. That point would be to remind the children that no mater how much time you throw away, your champ is NEVER going to be as developed as a 5,000 year old monster. Maybe in 5k years you'll be as strong. But not in a few weeks of grinding.


Back to my main point.
One thing that EQ did very well, was diversify that classes. No other MMO has done that as well as they did.

Then along game PVP.

Now all the MMOs being released are all balanced around PvP. Making every class equal in all regards.

Nothing screams BORING! as loud as that.

WoW started this garbage. The crying babies from PvP would slop over onto the forums and infect the game with their stupid, game dumbing, tantrums about how they couldn't kill x class, or that x ability was "op" or "unfair"

So what did ALL mmos do?

Made every class the same. Everyone does everything the same. Everyone is the DPS class, everyone is the tank, everyone is the healer, everyone can solo everything completely fairly and equally.

This kind of watered down boring boring boring dried up boringness is what makes MMOs grind fests of bordom.

Whats the point of leveling different classes if they all do the same crap?

Think about it this way. In EQ there was a class called Necro. A necro could snare a target (make its run speed really really slow) and fear it for close to 20 seconds. sick its pet, and put down some dots. If the fear broke early, the mob usually had the ability to kill both the pet and the necro. Gave you some "edge of the seat" aspect to fear kiting, as it was called.

If you were to put the above ability in PvP the crying would be loud enough to wake the dead.
So what did games do?
Fears got completely destroyed, and removed from the MMO world. (REAL FEARs not this "you dun been spooked just a hair" that guild wars 2 has.

another example.

Mages in WoW used to have an ability to go invisible, whilie invis they could move around and begin casting. As soon as they got a monsters attention invis would break. A PERFECT way to start a fight, and an even better way to explore the world.

Bring pvp babies into it, and the nerf bat started swinging. Infact it hit so hard the ability was completely removed from the game. And despite what the cry baby pvpers say, was never put back into the game.

Bring GW2 into the light.

While I like what they have done with the game not requiring a specific, and "set in stone" holy trinity of grouping, (tank and healer or no group)

in gw2 PvP is what decides who can do what, and which abilities each class gets.

Guardian is a tank right? lolz no. In PvP tanks are useless. No tanks in this game.

Necro's fear right? LOLZ no fear is OP in PvP so its limited to like 1/4th of a second. Not even enough time for you to even realize you've been feared.

I would love to see some amazing, and unique abilities introduced to each class, that ARE NOT BALANCED FOR PVP! (just nerf them when they are  used in pvp)

whats wrong with an elementalist getting a long cooldown nuke that does 20k dmg?

OH thats RIGHT Pfuking V stupidP The manipulative crybaby bastard child of MMOs.

"WAHHH! HE KEERED MAH IN WUN NUK!!! WQAAHHHH!HH!!!!"

If you say that it would make the game "unbalanced" in PvE you'd be wrong. Why? because if the monster catches the Ele he gets SQUISHED. Think cloth armor is going to stop a steel sword? Not a bit, so it BALANCES the game to have low defense toons do high dmg.

but is it like that? Nope. why? P crybaby V boring P.

Now a plate wearing warrior does the same amount of dmg as a cloth wearing elementalist.

The only difference between the classes in GW2 is the pretty armors, and the spell effects. But under the hood, everything is the same.

Thanks PvPers, you've ruined MMOs. Hope youre happy with yourselves.

I see your point, but I really dont think its PvP that is ruining these MMOs.

I loved EQ, that is still my favourite MMO to date, just like you.

The difference between us? I am an old Sullon Zek player... the three faction EQ pvp server of death, best experience in any MMO pvp so far.

I was quite happy there.

The key is world pvp, not instanced crap like GW2 WvW. Not arenas like WoW. Build a beautiful PvE world with loads of depth.. and then let players go at it, they can fight each other in unfair circumstances and use terrain, mobs, whatever they have to in order to win. THAT is pvp, not this instanced "competitive" crap they are pushing now.

I like thinking on my feet. I loved that when I got jumped in Velious by 4 players while I was on my Monk, I ran into Crystaline Caverns and jumped down several floors (safe fall skill), training loads of rygorr orcs after me, I then pulled them back to the zone in (the 4 pvpers followed me in) and feigned death letting dozens of orcs wipe them, with me doing the finishing touches. Wonderful, just wonderful.

I cant wait for Everquest Next, I am hoping it will bring the magic back that the new generation of MMOs has completely lost (gW2 being the pinnacle of having lost that magic)

#36 Specialz

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostRazamis, on 11 February 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

-toot

World PvP in is not sustainable if you actually care about making a successful game. The majority of MMORPG don't enjoy getting gank by some no life loser who can't handle real PvP so, they pick on weak players (not saying all are, but a enough are).

Just remember, unrelease mmos are usually better than every mmo out in the market...until it gets released.

#37 Treble

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

It's not the PVP players who ruin PVE content.

It's the PVE scrubs, who complained about their tanks and/or healers taking forever to kill a mob solo while they watched Thieves and Rangers solo elite mobs, who ruin PVE.

It's the PVE scrubs, who complained about about PVE content requiring too much time investment to be competitive, who ruin PVE content.

It's the PVE scrubs, who were too terrible to be accepted to a good 40-man raiding guild and therefore complained that massive raiding parties were dumb and only 5-man content was good, who ruin PVE.

It's the PVE scrubs, who didn't want to roll a tank or healer and complained that there weren't enough tanks and healers to form a decent group, who ruin PVE.

It's the PVE scrubs, who weren't coordinated enough to outplay game mechanics with a group and couldn't get past certain bosses and complained about encounters being too hard, who ruin PVE.

Here's a kicker. It's the PVE scrubs, who rolled on PVP servers and then complained about being ganked all the time, who ruined world PVP.

I've played more than enough MMO's to have seen history repeat itself; that the dumbing down and oversimplifying of PVE content is due to PVE players, not PVP. OP obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

Edited by Treble, 20 February 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#38 Stargate

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostTreble, on 20 February 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

It's not the PVP players who ruin PVE content.

It's the PVE scrubs, who complained about their tanks and/or healers taking forever to kill a mob solo while they watched Thieves and Rangers solo elite mobs, who ruin PVE.

It's the PVE scrubs, who complained about about PVE content requiring too much time investment to be competitive, who ruin PVE content.

It's the PVE scrubs, who were too terrible to be accepted to a good 40-man raiding guild and therefore complained that massive raiding parties were dumb and only 5-man content was good, who ruin PVE.

It's the PVE scrubs, who didn't want to roll a tank or healer and complained that there weren't enough tanks and healers to form a decent group, who ruin PVE.

It's the PVE scrubs, who weren't coordinated enough to outplay game mechanics with a group and couldn't get past certain bosses and complained about encounters being too hard, who ruin PVE.

Here's a kicker. It's the PVE scrubs, who rolled on PVP servers and then complained about being ganked all the time, who ruined world PVP.

I've played more than enough MMO's to have seen history repeat itself; that the dumbing down and oversimplifying of PVE content is due to PVE players, not PVP. OP obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
Good Dino(meant as compliment I like your Avatar picture). I like your posts. Well you got it. I like both PvP and PvE Raids. It is very possible to like both PvP and PvE group content like raids.

Edited by Stargate, 21 February 2013 - 08:48 PM.





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