Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Dynamic Leveling Adjustment

arenanet

  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 davadude

davadude

    Seraph Guardian

  • News Correspondents
  • 1183 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Guild Tag:[Team]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

Posted Image

Dynamic Leveling Adjustment


Arenanet's Isaiah Cartwright wrote a blog post about the update done to the dynamic leveling adjustment.  The blog post outlines the basic concept and changes made.  You can check out the blog post on the Guild Wars 2 website.

Hello, I’m Isaiah Cartwright, the lead game designer for Guild Wars 2. I’d like to talk today about some changes we made to our dynamic leveling system, which allows players to enjoy the content on any map at any level.

We had a few issues with this system that we made adjustments to. When high-level characters played in lower level zones, they were a bit too powerful, so the content was not as challenging as it could be. As a result of this, we also scaled down the rewards a bit too much.

As of the January 28 build, we made some changes to the dynamic scaling system to address these issues:
1.) We changed the formula for how attributes are calculated when the dynamic leveling adjustment system scales you down. This makes returning to lower level zones more fun and better balanced.
2.) We changed the formula for how rewards are calculated when scaled down to make it more rewarding for high-level players to visit lower level areas.

The goal is to more accurately reflect the attributes you should have at that level for a similarly geared character. While this will make some areas harder, our goal is to make all areas of Guild Wars 2 exciting and fun for players of any level. We also want players of all levels to feel like their time is well spent and rewarding in any map they go to.

In 2013, one of our main goals is to add more content to maps of all levels, as well as stronger reward structures for playing across all locations in the world. This will give us a strong structure of experiences, challenges, and rewards that are balanced for a player of any level in any map and help make the social experience of playing anywhere in our game more exciting.

Thanks for playing!


#2 Doctor Overlord

Doctor Overlord

    If you hate MMOs....

  • Members
  • 5187 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX
  • Guild Tag:[MOA]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:57 PM

I'm currently loving the new adjusted drops.   It's so nice to be getting level appropriate gear even it's just to sell!  

I haven't really noticed that it is any harder fighting mobs but I'm not using a level 80.

#3 Coren

Coren

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2395 posts
  • Location:In my lab BOOKAH
  • Profession:Engineer
  • Guild Tag:[DRK]

Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

Rewards are better yes, combat harder? Not in the slightest, sorry :)

#4 ilr

ilr

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2654 posts

Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

Goddamnit Izzy..... NEVER, NEVER supplant the word "Fun" for things that actually CAN be be properly be measured with real metrics.  Especially a more divisive but more systematic concept like Difficulty

Edited by ilr, 01 February 2013 - 11:55 PM.


#5 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:00 AM

View Postilr, on 01 February 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Goddamnit Izzy..... NEVER, NEVER supplant the word "Fun" for things that actually CAN be be properly be measured with real metrics.  Especially a more divisive but more systematic concept like Difficulty
Agreed, Current open world content is not at all challenging much less difficult. It's not noticeable for players rushing to level 80, but the lack of engagement becomes all the more apparent on subsequent playthroughs. I believe this is one of the reasons as to why we've seen such a sharp drop in players.

It's also pretty obvious that they're relying on pure metrics at the points and this is evident in their emphasis of rewards and achievements in their revamping of the game. Rewards don't make dull content any better. In fact, they make the content more mundane as you're doing it for the reward rather than an intrinsic desire to do them in the first place. The most "fun" I had was actually in doing interesting DEs and jumping puzzles that weren't dictated through map icons. The rewards were worthless, but the content was fun.

As for the re-scaling, if everything was equally rewarding, wouldn't players simply gravitate to the most engaging content?

Edited by Featherman, 02 February 2013 - 01:29 AM.


#6 Flaming_Foxx

Flaming_Foxx

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 448 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:05 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 02 February 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

As for the re-scaling, if everything was equally rewarding, wouldn't players simply gravitate to the most engaging content?

Yes, but at least now if people find the lower level maps the most engaging then they can play in those and know that it can be just as rewarding as a higher level map.
There are actually people who think this as well. The level 1-30ish maps are some of the most well designed maps in the game and there's generally a lot more story going on.
I'll take any excuse I can to go back into Caledon Forest or queensdale xD.

#7 Strawberry Nubcake

Strawberry Nubcake

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 683 posts
  • Location:On a boat!
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Guild Tag:[ssss]
  • Server:Yak’s Bend

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:29 AM

I've been doing exploration on my guardian for the past few days and it still feels like I'm fighting butter monsters with a hot greatsword.  I'm definitely not complaining since I've been getting tons of 75+ junk to sell or salvage, but I think they missed the mark if their goal was to make low level areas a little more challenging for high level players.

#8 Featherman

Featherman

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Frolicking in Kalos

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostFlaming_Foxx, on 02 February 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

Yes, but at least now if people find the lower level maps the most engaging then they can play in those and know that it can be just as rewarding as a higher level map.
There are actually people who think this as well. The level 1-30ish maps are some of the most well designed maps in the game and there's generally a lot more story going on.
I'll take any excuse I can to go back into Caledon Forest or queensdale xD.
I guess I may be out of touch with current gaming trends, but what more do people these days need to play games than to be engaged within the experience? Does the skinner box supersede aesthetic in MMOs? Honest questions, because I'm truly baffled.

Edited by Featherman, 02 February 2013 - 01:36 AM.


#9 Ara

Ara

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:46 AM

Quote

The goal is to more accurately reflect the attributes you should have at that level for a similarly geared character.
That's what's keeping these changes useless when most of us are running around in full exo/asc... Not to mention that while leveling we never have gear of our level in all slots. The average is probably 5-10 level below !

In my opinion, down scaling should be more severe as gear quality increase, to reduce differences. For exemple, let's take 2 persons: one is fully geared in blues and gets 600 strength from it, the other is full exo and gets 1200 strength, and instead of downscaling to, say, 60 and 120 str respectively, make it 60 and 90, or 40 and 55.

Edited by Ara, 02 February 2013 - 01:51 AM.


#10 Caerulei

Caerulei

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 111 posts
  • Guild Tag:[FDTN]
  • Server:Tarnished Coast

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:00 AM

Cool, so now I can farm events for gold OUTSIDE of Orr?  Me likey.  An hour of Orrian landscape gets depressing real fast.

#11 escada_assassin

escada_assassin

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 170 posts
  • Location:Romania
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:08 AM

3 hours ago I participated in kiling the Champion Troll in Queensdale (on my level 80 Ele). I won't lie and say that I was curious about the karma, copper / silver and XP reward, but I will say that the troll dropped wonderful things for me : 1 blue item worth 14c (as in copper) and 59c. Yeah, i'd say they changed the formula for rewards when scaled down. That only motivates me to only play Orr. At least there I know for sure I will get something worth more than 14c. Other than rewards, I felt the fights a little more tougher than usual, but still easy.

Edited by escada_assassin, 02 February 2013 - 07:14 AM.


#12 Mastruq

Mastruq

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 206 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

The downscaling feature is one of the best things about GW2. I love having the game available to me without annihilating the entire zone with every footstep. I want the downscaling to become more severe though, because like others said it is still total faceroll even after the patch. If they upscale rewards in turn even better, maybe we eventually settle for nearly identical DE rewards to being in an 80 zone doing DEs there.

#13 Flaming_Foxx

Flaming_Foxx

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 448 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 02 February 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

I guess I may be out of touch with current gaming trends, but what more do people these days need to play games than to be engaged within the experience? Does the skinner box supersede aesthetic in MMOs? Honest questions, because I'm truly baffled.

I'm really sorry, it might just be because I'm very very tired.But I can't understand what you're saying at all?
What is the skinner box? Are you saying that why do I need more than to be engaged? Because I thought that what I said was that I like being engaged and getting to go to certain areas because they engage me? Or are you agreeing with me. In which case <3
As I said, very very tried >.>

View Postescada_assassin, on 02 February 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

3 hours ago I participated in kiling the Champion Troll in Queensdale (on my level 80 Ele). I won't lie and say that I was curious about the karma, copper / silver and XP reward, but I will say that the troll dropped wonderful things for me : 1 blue item worth 14c (as in copper) and 59c. Yeah, i'd say they changed the formula for rewards when scaled down. That only motivates me to only play Orr. At least there I know for sure I will get something worth more than 14c. Other than rewards, I felt the fights a little more tougher than usual, but still easy.

Drops are random. You have just as much chance of getting a blue drop for Queensdale as you do from Frotsgorge etc.
In the past two days I've gotten two rares from regular mobs in Metrica Province. RNG ftw,

#14 Baron von Scrufflebutt

Baron von Scrufflebutt

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 3106 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:34 AM

Or they could simply remove levels instead. I mean, as it stands now, the only point of levels is to gate the content.

#15 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5336 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

View PostProtoss, on 02 February 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Or they could simply remove levels instead. I mean, as it stands now, the only point of levels is to gate the content.

So you would rather have it so that people can start a new character, run to the final dungeon and "complete" the game within 2 hours?

Sounds like fun......

#16 cyclopsje

cyclopsje

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 779 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:09 AM

Tbh the no level thing worked fine in gw1 20 levels and 90% of the game after that gave a challenge

Edited by cyclopsje, 02 February 2013 - 10:10 AM.


#17 escada_assassin

escada_assassin

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 170 posts
  • Location:Romania
  • Profession:Guardian
  • Guild Tag:[EG]
  • Server:Sanctum of Rall

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostFlaming_Foxx, on 02 February 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Drops are random. You have just as much chance of getting a blue drop for Queensdale as you do from Frotsgorge etc.
In the past two days I've gotten two rares from regular mobs in Metrica Province. RNG ftw,

As a curiosity, I never got a blue item worth 14c in Frostgorge / Orr and trust me - I've played a lot in those areas and still playing there. And by the way - do you happen to get a lot of T5/T6 materials in Queensdale? Any Orichalcum / Mithril ore nodes?

P.S. So you understand my problem - I play in Queensdale every day, because I simply love that area (Metrica aswell), but I don't play that area because of the rewards, but simply because I enjoy everything happening in that area. If I want rewards, gold and whatever else I need (like those T5/T6 materials I mentioned above) I won't go in Queensdale / Metrica or a lot of other low level areas. Unless they somehow balance the drops while downscaled, I don't know if people would see any incentive to go back to low level areas. If you liked it before the update, you'll like it after and vice versa.

Edited by escada_assassin, 02 February 2013 - 10:22 AM.


#18 davadude

davadude

    Seraph Guardian

  • News Correspondents
  • 1183 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Profession:Elementalist
  • Guild Tag:[Team]
  • Server:Gandara

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostDoctor Overlord, on 01 February 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

I'm currently loving the new adjusted drops.   It's so nice to be getting level appropriate gear even it's just to sell!  

I haven't really noticed that it is any harder fighting mobs but I'm not using a level 80.

Agreed, yesterday I only got level appropriate gear, it made me smile, even though I sold it all on the TP or to merchants.
Davadude - Guru Village Idiot

#19 Darkobra

Darkobra

    Seraph Guardian

  • Members
  • 1366 posts
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:58 AM

View PostDoctor Overlord, on 01 February 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

I'm currently loving the new adjusted drops.   It's so nice to be getting level appropriate gear even it's just to sell!  

I haven't really noticed that it is any harder fighting mobs but I'm not using a level 80.

The adjusted drops got me a precursor in a low level area! And I've definitely noticed a difference fighting low level monsters. I'm not able to utterly destroy them in 2 spells. It feels like I really am appropriate to that level now. Yes I have more traits and spells to help me out but my damage is kept in check too.

I've been doing every single jump puzzle in the game and a second round of 100% exploration and I've got to say, I've not been going through on auto-pilot in some areas anymore.

#20 beadnbutter32

beadnbutter32

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 618 posts
  • Location:Highway 61 Central US
  • Server:Henge of Denravi

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

Any level 80 can pretty much one and two shoot most of the mobs in any zone under 45,
I don't think you should be getting same level gear as a reward for that, regardless of whether it is white, green or yellow.

From 45 to 70, mobs have gotten a bit more serious and you can see some work has gone into that, you simply can't faceroll them like you do 1-45.

Anet seems to be re-vamping the areas backwards starting with Orr which is curious when they said the revamp was to freshen starter to mid levels. Lots of re-designed champions and dynamic events in Orr now.

#21 Lordkrall

Lordkrall

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5336 posts
  • Location:Sweden
  • Profession:Warrior
  • Server:Aurora Glade

Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 02 February 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Any level 80 can pretty much one and two shoot most of the mobs in any zone under 45,
I don't think you should be getting same level gear as a reward for that, regardless of whether it is white, green or yellow.

From 45 to 70, mobs have gotten a bit more serious and you can see some work has gone into that, you simply can't faceroll them like you do 1-45.

Anet seems to be re-vamping the areas backwards starting with Orr which is curious when they said the revamp was to freshen starter to mid levels. Lots of re-designed champions and dynamic events in Orr now.

I suppose you have not played in the lower leveled areas since the patch then?

It is not possible for most professions to one or two shot most mobs.

#22 Flaming_Foxx

Flaming_Foxx

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 448 posts
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:25 PM

View Postescada_assassin, on 02 February 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

As a curiosity, I never got a blue item worth 14c in Frostgorge / Orr and trust me - I've played a lot in those areas and still playing there. And by the way - do you happen to get a lot of T5/T6 materials in Queensdale? Any Orichalcum / Mithril ore nodes?

P.S. So you understand my problem - I play in Queensdale every day, because I simply love that area (Metrica aswell), but I don't play that area because of the rewards, but simply because I enjoy everything happening in that area. If I want rewards, gold and whatever else I need (like those T5/T6 materials I mentioned above) I won't go in Queensdale / Metrica or a lot of other low level areas. Unless they somehow balance the drops while downscaled, I don't know if people would see any incentive to go back to low level areas. If you liked it before the update, you'll like it after and vice versa.

They have balanced the drops though. Not FULLY. But they did mention in a blog post that the drops at lower areas are now appropriate to your level (beforehand this was only the case in areas 10 levels below (or something like that).
So no I don't get Orich veins in Queensdale, but I do get drops which when salvaged give me Orich :D
But yes you're right, the update probably won't change things for people who didn't already like going back to those areas.

#23 JHCinSC

JHCinSC

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

I find Orr ugly and depressing and don't play there often even though the rewards are better.  I'd play the lower level areas if they were fun and the rewards were decent.  I am just not sure that they are which is my time in GW2 is way down recently; I only sign in to do my daily and then I'm gone to do something fun.

#24 rukh

rukh

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 719 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:24 PM

Downscaling was something that they awfully messed up so I'm glad their trying to fix it.  However I'm not seeing much difference in difficulty in this iteration.  Maybe a few more autoattacks to kill something, but I've not once felt like I'm in danger...and that's without any armor on.

So to compensate for better rewards they made enemies take longer to kill, rather than genuinely difficult?

Edited by rukh, 02 February 2013 - 08:24 PM.


#25 Eon Lilu

Eon Lilu

    Golem Rider

  • Members
  • 2295 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Server:Desolation

Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:28 PM

View Postrukh, on 02 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

they made enemies take longer to kill, rather than genuinely difficult?

Welcome to guild wars 2, you see that in dungeons in every part of the game....mmmmmm boris...how can we make this harder boris...oh I dunno lets increase all npc health by 10000000000000 and give them a random one shot hit attack that you have to dodge once evey 5 minutes...

Boris your a genius....

Some dynamic events are truely awesome but 90% are just copy and paste most of the time. Maybe it will make it more challenging but we will still probably be able to just stand there and press one and still win....

Edited by Eon Lilu, 02 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.


#26 Craywulf

Craywulf

    Legion Commander

  • Members
  • 5268 posts

Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

I personally would like to know what exactly is/was the old and new formula for downscaling. I recently played post-update with my level 47 Necromancer in Queensdale and I didn't notice any change in difficulty of the mobs. However I did notice the drops are dramatically better. So kudos to ArenaNet for getting that part right. Now if they can tweak the difficulty even more, it will truly feel like downscaling.

#27 ShezuTsukai

ShezuTsukai

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 481 posts
  • Location:Coast of Nebraska
  • Profession:Thief
  • Guild Tag:[Soul]
  • Server:Fort Aspenwood

Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:02 PM

I think champion level opponents are the most noticeably stronger. I have had serveral interesting and challenging fights in Snowden Drifts.

I would encourage you tho think back to when you were leveling. The average mob was not a challenge then either unless you over agroed. But Veterans and Champions were increasingly more interesting to face. It is mostly the same again except with appropriate drops.

#28 Lheimroo

Lheimroo

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:35 AM

View PostFeatherman, on 02 February 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

I guess I may be out of touch with current gaming trends, but what more do people these days need to play games than to be engaged within the experience? Does the skinner box supersede aesthetic in MMOs? Honest questions, because I'm truly baffled.

Yes.

Not for me.. but it seems like there's a definite subset of gamers who want the little pellet that's dispensed when you press the button more than they want a lively, engaging world.

#29 Ghetto Medic

Ghetto Medic

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 37 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:55 AM

I'm a pvp player, when I do get something :P
Seems like 90% of Anet's work is on pve when pvp lacks basics systems. /rant

#30 leongrado

leongrado

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 604 posts

Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:10 AM

View Postcyclopsje, on 02 February 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Tbh the no level thing worked fine in gw1 20 levels and 90% of the game after that gave a challenge

Agreed. In Nightfall, you were max level after getting off the noob island. Then you can concentrate on doing fun things with the professions you wanted since you could easily get max level for every profession.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: arenanet

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users