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T1 - Jade Sanctum’s Sorrow

tier 1jade quarry sanctum of rall sea of sorrow

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#451 Cirus

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:54 AM

View PostMonsterDemon, on 10 February 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

Yeah, it was odd for sure.  I was in one of the BL and JQ was outmanned which shouldn't even be the case considering JQ supposedly was stacked.  Surprising that JQ can manage pretty good being outmanned.

When you're getting smashed on the borderlands, morale is down and people don't like to fight, so being outmanned while not controlling anything is not uncommon. What got you to that position in the first place was when you had the borderland queued and you were unable to hold your own territory.

#452 MikeSr

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:54 AM

View PostCirus, on 10 February 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

When you're getting smashed on the borderlands, morale is down and people don't like to fight, so being outmanned while not controlling anything is not uncommon. What got you to that position in the first place was when you had the borderland queued and you were unable to hold your own territory.

This is blatant trolling based on lies, lies and more lies.

#453 Jackiepro

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:46 AM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 10 February 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

I know I read this, but somehow the words never got into my brain..  me dumb.

(oh and BTW, generating an early lead to make the week closer falls under strategy, not tactics... Not to get all dictionary on ya, but if you're going to call folks out on their brains, ya should at least get your terms right)

Apologies for my incorrect word choice, im too busy being good at the game.

Edited by Jackiepro, 10 February 2013 - 05:46 AM.


#454 syNcv9

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:51 AM

I have a new favorite guild. It's FOO. While all Chinese are back to hometown and meeting their family for lunar new year, They stayed overnight to play gw2 and cap everything.

Totally /salute. I have no idea how they can pull off such a thing.

#455 Cirus

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:14 AM

Was anyone on SoR borderlands just before, while Jade Quarry controlled Hills?

Good times! :D

#456 EvilSinzGW2

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:26 AM

Mmmm bags.  I need a macro

#457 baels

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:04 AM

This is my personal perspective of things at the moment. If you take the time to read it, thanks. If not, eh you probably missed nothing.

JQ prior to influx of various large guilds was competitive, and a challenge for SoS to beat. Most of SoS's victories minus 1 here and there were <10k. We (The server) pulled massive overtime and MERC (personally) would extend into euro to keep our PPT something decent into late SEA/Euro alongside AFS/DiE. FOO/EMP/Nord and some other smaller guilds were providing amazing challenges nightly.

Essentially the only reason we would win the tier (and barely) was because SBI provided next to no competition toward the end of their time in T1, and we could focus on you (JQ). FOO would always have the superior PPT, holding JQ bl as well as SBI bl most of the time, whilst SoS BL would go into full lockdown in attempt to hold at least 200ppt. If we were holding 200-250 at midnight GMT+8, we were happy and could log off. JQ would decrease our lead over euro since this was pre ND and VoTf etc, but our NA at the time (no longer as strong as they were sadly...) could do enough to get back a respectable PPT by the time we got on. We oceanics would then be able to increase our PPT relatively nicely (usually ~300-500 depending on the night) and the tier remained close.

If Blackgate or SoR had entered the tier a little earlier, and JQ had recieved maybe 1-2 guilds, but no more - I dare say this tier would be amazing fun. Now as it is, MERC/ND/AFS has stopped putting in overtime hence why you're seeing PPT blow outs by maybe midnight GMT+8/2am GMT+6, if not a bit earlier. As good as VoTf are, they alone alongside maybe 1-2 smaller guilds such as TRA are not enough to defend against JQ queues on every map. I'm personally waiting more or less for JQ to slowly deflate and become somewhat normalized, that or we somehow receive at least 1-2 strong euro guilds. Until then we'll continue to play in our coverage zone.. and not in 2 extra to make up for our lack of.

#458 Stovokor X

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:28 AM

View Postbaels, on 10 February 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

This is my personal perspective of things at the moment. If you take the time to read it, thanks. If not, eh you probably missed nothing.

JQ prior to influx of various large guilds was competitive, and a challenge for SoS to beat. Most of SoS's victories minus 1 here and there were <10k. We (The server) pulled massive overtime and MERC (personally) would extend into euro to keep our PPT something decent into late SEA/Euro alongside AFS/DiE. FOO/EMP/Nord and some other smaller guilds were providing amazing challenges nightly.

Essentially the only reason we would win the tier (and barely) was because SBI provided next to no competition toward the end of their time in T1, and we could focus on you (JQ). FOO would always have the superior PPT, holding JQ bl as well as SBI bl most of the time, whilst SoS BL would go into full lockdown in attempt to hold at least 200ppt. If we were holding 200-250 at midnight GMT+8, we were happy and could log off. JQ would decrease our lead over euro since this was pre ND and VoTf etc, but our NA at the time (no longer as strong as they were sadly...) could do enough to get back a respectable PPT by the time we got on. We oceanics would then be able to increase our PPT relatively nicely (usually ~300-500 depending on the night) and the tier remained close.

If Blackgate or SoR had entered the tier a little earlier, and JQ had recieved maybe 1-2 guilds, but no more - I dare say this tier would be amazing fun. Now as it is, MERC/ND/AFS has stopped putting in overtime hence why you're seeing PPT blow outs by maybe midnight GMT+8/2am GMT+6, if not a bit earlier. As good as VoTf are, they alone alongside maybe 1-2 smaller guilds such as TRA are not enough to defend against JQ queues on every map. I'm personally waiting more or less for JQ to slowly deflate and become somewhat normalized, that or we somehow receive at least 1-2 strong euro guilds. Until then we'll continue to play in our coverage zone.. and not in 2 extra to make up for our lack of.

I agree with some of the things you have said especially the phenomenon of covering other timezones. But overall score wise many of the matches SoS won were over long before the end. There was a difference in approach.SoS put in enough to win and then they would observe the situation for any sign of comeback & if re-mobilization was required. JQ behaves in a different manner, If they are winning they would not let-up & continue pushing the score. If JQ was losing ( most of the time in that match-up ) they would still continue pushing to pad the score even though mathematically it had no significance.

As for the " amazing fun" T1 factor scenario you prescribe, SoS had overwhelming population advantage for a long time, discern the "amazing fun " at that time for players on the receiving end. That statement you made seem to have more to do with the overall score and winning. Seems plenty fun ( as usual ) right now based on the comments and props on forums from various guilds and players.

#459 baels

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostStovokor X, on 10 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

I agree with some of the things you have said especially the phenomenon of covering other timezones. But overall score wise many of the matches SoS won were over long before the end. There was a difference in approach.SoS put in enough to win and then they would observe the situation for any sign of comeback & if re-mobilization was required. JQ behaves in a different manner, If they are winning they would not let-up & continue pushing the score. If JQ was losing ( most of the time in that match-up ) they would still continue pushing to pad the score even though mathematically it had no significance.

As for the " amazing fun" T1 factor scenario you prescribe, SoS had overwhelming population advantage for a long time, discern the "amazing fun " at that time for players on the receiving end. That statement you made seem to have more to do with the overall score and winning. Seems plenty fun ( as usual ) right now based on the comments and props on forums from various guilds and players.

Perceived overwhelming population advantage due to guilds putting in overtime. I also did say if you had recieved 1-2 large guilds - not if things had stayed how they were. I know we still had you beat for population. I acknowledged it.

Edited by baels, 10 February 2013 - 09:36 AM.


#460 Evank1

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

View Postbaels, on 10 February 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Perceived overwhelming population advantage due to guilds putting in overtime. I also did say if you had received 1-2 large guilds - not if things had stayed how they were. I know we still had you beat for population. I acknowledged it.

I would wager that most of the reasonable WvW players would agree with your statement as being relatively close to the actual population landscape in T1 before Jan 28. But I would not expect everyone to agree with you. Most of the new residents of a certain particular server will likely continue downplaying the changes in the population landscape post Jan 28.

However, the preliminary scores from last week and the beginning of this week are already showing everyone that there is an imbalance towards one side. The question is: just how large? It will take a few more weeks for things to settle before that question is answered.

Unless Anet alters their scoring system to take into account population differences or the WvW community decides to self-regulate better, this will continue to be the ebb and flow of WvW.

But rest assured that non-competition has a built-in method of fixing itself. Boredom, attrition, and queues all play a part to alter the landscape. It drove TA to disband and destroyed HoD from within. JQ is the last of the old guard servers. The rest of them (HoD, NSP, ET, and SBI) have all crumbled and plummeted in the rankings in order to make room for the new guard. Once that transition from old to new is complete, the community will be better off as a whole. It's just a matter of time.

#461 wondowondo

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

we had no queue on SoS BL tonight, and flipped everything on the map once or twice... Tsym moved to our map briefly and things got crazy, but then they switched off. :(

but most importantly we had fun. it's still about fun right? hint: it is for my guild.

Edited by wondowondo, 10 February 2013 - 10:45 AM.


#462 Zhrek

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:58 AM

I must admit, when Tsym and Agg ran together on Sor BL it felt like Beastmode, but had to keep map switching, was fun while it lasted.  For short times at a time.  Ninja on Hills, was epic.  Your welcome Sor :D

Great fights with Choo and prx, good times!  (sor BL)

Awesome fights with SF on SOS BL also, you guys went from easy badges to tough as nails, WTF!  Good fights none the less!  Trebbing from the quaggans?!?!?!  swimming swimming swimming.......nm, fun night!

Edited by Zhrek, 10 February 2013 - 11:20 AM.


#463 Vihar

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

I think Baels' post is probably accurate.

   It just overlooks one thing.

   SoS, when a comfortable lead was made....would go and do other things besides WvW.

   If the lead got too close, they would come back and secure the win.

   That is why the final scores were close. Not due to competitive equality, but more to do with building a lead, taking a break, and then securing the lead when it was threatened.

#464 Jedbacca

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

View PostZhrek, on 10 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

I must admit, when Tsym and Agg ran together on Sor BL it felt like Beastmode, but had to keep map switching, was fun while it lasted.  For short times at a time.  Ninja on Hills, was epic.  Your welcome Sor :D

Great fights with Choo and prx, good times!  (sor BL)

Awesome fights with SF on SOS BL also, you guys went from easy badges to tough as nails, WTF!  Good fights none the less!  Trebbing from the quaggans?!?!?!  swimming swimming swimming.......nm, fun night!

lol@SF ever being easy badges.  Probably when teams run 60+ against us.

#465 crowea

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

PRX has a habit of moving when they get bored. They seem to set certain goals and once they achieve them move on.  I imagine it will happen again.

#466 Super Sic

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:19 PM

View Postcrowea, on 10 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

PRX has a habit of moving when they get bored. They seem to set certain goals and once they achieve them move on.  I imagine it will happen again.

I don't think they're going anywhere after this. Perhaps a different game, but I don't see them paying real money to transfer anymore. Especially to a server that would take too much effort and time to bring to the top in a WvWvW environment that is fast becoming stale.

#467 crowea

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

View PostSuper Sic, on 10 February 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

I don't think they're going anywhere after this. Perhaps a different game, but I don't see them paying real money to transfer anymore. Especially to a server that would take too much effort and time to bring to the top in a WvWvW environment that is fast becoming stale.
I think I agree - transfers aren't really going to happen unless Anet does something like have a week of free transfers to low-pop servers or something (which they could do).

My sense was that the wins each week on SoS was becoming less interesting for PRX after all the time in HoD. They only stayed in T1 with SoS for about 3 weeks I think after about five weeks moving up from T4.

Edited by crowea, 10 February 2013 - 12:26 PM.


#468 Zhrek

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostJedbacca, on 10 February 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

lol@SF ever being easy badges.  Probably when teams run 60+ against us.

Was trying to give you a compliment, but since that is too much for you to grasp.  You got good, after you wiped your mouth from RG's control and they taught you how to play;)  Pretty obvious to the players you play against, now back on your knees.

Edited by Zhrek, 10 February 2013 - 12:51 PM.


#469 Stovokor X

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:23 PM

View Postbaels, on 10 February 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Perceived overwhelming population advantage due to guilds putting in overtime. I also did say if you had received 1-2 large guilds - not if things had stayed how they were. I know we still had you beat for population. I acknowledged it.

As I stated earlier, assessment of the wins being really close due to final score of < 10 k is flawed. Much of SoS takes a break when its mathematically improbably for opposition to come back. Basically SoS monitors the situation & heads into maintenance mode while doing other things. In the meantime other enemy servers like JQ close the gap which mathematically means nothing. The outcome is never in doubt at this point. Its laughable you are painting a scenario closer to a nail biting finish each time. Maybe the people in the know in SoS are just not telling you or worse. ps. SoS has plenty in reserve on last 2 days if needed.

Its not perceived population advantage, even outside of the mainstay guilds there were many players that ended up on SoS and it showed overwhelmingly in those zerg's rampaging about. Overtime is not something unique, many servers in T1 / T2 have guilds that put in the overtime & even have to map hop multiple times to put out fires. If certain guilds did not put in inordinate shifts for the likes of SBI ( low WvW pop ) the score would have been really loop sided long ago.

Quote

Now as it is, MERC/ND/AFS has stopped putting in overtime hence why you're seeing PPT blow outs by maybe midnight GMT+8/2am GMT+6, if not a bit earlier. As good as VoTf are, they alone alongside maybe 1-2 smaller guilds such as TRA are not enough to defend against JQ queues on every map.

View Postbaels, on 10 February 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Until then we'll continue to play in our coverage zone.. and not in 2 extra to make up for our lack of.

Post the transfer lock JQ has the larger population and the advantage. However last week match was so close for many days including WEEKDAYS. Some would say unprecedented how long it stayed so tight. Then it changed ... same time different day but JQ started accumulating more points at those off peak hours. Transfer were already locked so that's not it. Seems like the decision to stop putting in overtime directly impacted that match at a critical juncture. Whatever it was there was some sort of breakdown day on day.

If SoS access what they did right up to that point when it was tight race and build from there I believe the gap is not so great.

#470 MrZero

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

View PostZhrek, on 10 February 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Was trying to give you a compliment, but since that is too much for you to grasp.  You got good, after you wiped your mouth from RG's control and they taught you how to play;)  Pretty obvious to the players you play against, now back on your knees.

1 - Jed was drunk when he posted that.
2 - SF never had any interaction with RG.
3 - You could figure out new ways of getting your job done if you put as much thought into fighting as you put into finding ways of calling someone a homosexual. Maybe your homophobia is just getting in the way of a new way of thinking about the game. At any rate, you just sound like a little bitch.

Edited by MrZero, 10 February 2013 - 02:28 PM.


#471 Kreen

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

The selective memories displayed on these forums is staggering at times. Does no one remember that last week on Wednesday there was still barely 10k between all three servers? At that point in the match up that was the closest T1 3way match up we have had so far. It was only on Thursday that JQ started to pull away. This week so far there is only a few k between all three servers. Sure it is looking good for JQ due to the better overall weekday coverage it seems to have but there were plenty of times last week JQ ticked last and several times the other servers were ticking for 400 or greater. There is still plenty to play for. Who knows how CNY will play out.

The negativity displayed by some folks regarding their servers so early on in the match up is sad.

As for baels perspective, some good points there, thank you,  but I could add some perspective of my own and also include some analysis on point spreads and evolution for the last 16 match ups which folks might find interesting as supporting data but there seems little point in doing that as we appear to be dealing with some very entrenched views now that cannot be easily altered. We appear to be past the point of reasoned discussion now at for some frequent posters.

As for JQ being the last of the old guard and representing everything that is bad regarding WvW and once they fall everything will be golden in the garden of WvW, and the great and good of the NeW community can flourish and grow, well what utter rubbish. The author of such a comment does not surprise me, he has never had a good word to say about JQ no matter how that performed in WvW. I have no idea what his problem is beyond the obvious lack of objectivity.

I am afraid the problems with WvW run a lot deeper than the current performance of any particular server.

#472 Vihar

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

If I felt like it, we could go back and find all the SoS posts about how they only do enough WvW to keep the lead when it gets close.....but I can't be bothered, and it doesn't matter.

  They used to brag about it.

#473 cjskater

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostStovokor X, on 10 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

As I stated earlier, assessment of the wins being really close due to final score of < 10 k is flawed. Much of SoS takes a break when its mathematically improbably for opposition to come back. Basically SoS monitors the situation & heads into maintenance mode while doing other things. In the meantime other enemy servers like JQ close the gap which mathematically means nothing. The outcome is never in doubt at this point. Its laughable you are painting a scenario closer to a nail biting finish each time. Maybe the people in the know in SoS are just not telling you or worse. ps. SoS has plenty in reserve on last 2 days if needed.
The same could be said of JQ.  Why is it ok for you to not play seriously on weekends and then claim to be serious during weekdays?  That is the exact same situation just in reverse.  You take a break on weekends and then "play harder" during the week.  There is a lot of "what if" situations we could argue here.  What if JQ "took weekends seriously" instead of "waiting" for the weekdays to catch up? Past and present JQ.  If they had played hard as they could 7 days a week, would they be in second even in the past?  Does this not balance out when you take into account that SoS also coasted for 2 days at the end of the week?

Before anybody responds: if that is wrong, why do I see so many people claiming this every weekend?

#474 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostJackiepro, on 10 February 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Apologies for my incorrect word choice, im too busy being good at the game.

I'd hate to be THAT good!

#475 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:59 PM

View PostJedbacca, on 10 February 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

lol@SF ever being easy badges.  Probably when teams run 60+ against us.

This is clearly a case of some dude making shit up. He'd never faced SF before and just assumed you guys got better recently. Probably doesn't even know what server SF used to be on. He probably just started reading tags and thinks is cool to say "Wow, you guys got a lot better!" but thought he'd sound extra cool if he claimed to have badge farmed you before.

This is that guy who makes up historical 'facts' to sound smart, like that the Atomic Bomb was originally created by the Russians, figuring no one will ever bother to check. This is the guy who drinks white wine and claims to be an expert in  detecting tastes, but makes up flavors like 'lupine'. This is the guy who had 'cheat codes' to online games, and when told there's no such thing, claims the entire internet is wrong. This is the guy who...

meh. Okay it's me. I'll admit it. lol

#476 Familiar

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:05 PM

Wine snobs are some of the worst people. My respect is waning for you, Calm.

#477 EvilSinzGW2

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

The bandwagon guilds crying over someone calling them farm material.  If someone felt that way, you probably sucked and didn't realize it.  Of course it was made up.  Yeah of course.  

Gee JQ, tell us again about your non existent queue times, paying guilds to transfer to your server,  claiming you only had a few guilds come over, you don't pvdoor, it's all skill, we don't 2v1 ....blah blah blah.  The propaganda machine rolls on.

Edit:  Oh wait, I nearly forgot the classic 'Oh, we had no idea who was coming to JQ as we just picked this server out of a hat. Luckily for us there are guilds hide behind.'

If and when JQ starts losing, all these fair weather guilds will scramble for those gems and get out of dodge.  Walking joke

Clearly the case of some dudes making stuff up.  Clearly

View PostVihar, on 10 February 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

If I felt like it, we could go back and find all the SoS posts about how they only do enough WvW to keep the lead when it gets close.....but I can't be bothered, and it doesn't matter.

  They used to brag about it.

Look them up Vihar. You seem to have plenty of free time

Edited by EvilSinzGW2, 10 February 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#478 Cirus

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

Some interesting posts here.

While I agree with the sentiment of most of them, it's not quite right.

It is true, Sea of Sorrows would apply the pressure hard from the beginning and would take the foot of the gas once victory was all but certain. In most scenario's, this wouldn't happen usually until the Wednesday or Thursday though. In fact we were so used to wrapping up the contest by Thurday that some guilds even had a day called PvE Thursday, to take a break out of WvW when the result was secure and let their hair down. During the mid December matchup though after PRX left the server, JQ came within 3k points of beating SoS on the final day, there was a lot of confusion and a lot of people still wanted to PvE on Thursday meanwhile JQ was closing in on the lead hour by hour! It took the insane efforts of various guilds to stay up until the reset against the overwhelming odds (JQ always out numbers us in the late hours) to hold onto the lead, only by just! Some SoS people even gave up on the final day because they thought we were going to lose, making the task of holding on even harder. Luckily there were still people around that have seen it all before and never gave up and fought until the final hour. Being out numbered 2:1 during the late SEA time, it was scary when JQ needed 8k points with 8 hours remaining, then 7k points in 7 hours, then 6k points in 6 hours, ARRRRRRRGH.

It's got to go down as one of the greatest WvW matchups of all time.

When there are guilds such as MERC that are putting in double time every night and are covering 2 timezones every night, Australia and late SEA/Early Euro (the latter timezone is for damage control in the PPT), you honestly can't blame them for taking nights off when the result is certain (be it victory or defeat). These guys have literally been fighting and staying up until the sun rises every night for the past 3 months while the contest remains serious. However, this was all done during Summer holidays, the holidays down under are over, the kids have only just gone back to school meanwhile university is about to resume. People need to get serious with their lives again and staying up until 6am every night is no longer an option.

If anything this highlights the soft underbelly of Sea of Sorrows, we've never had a strong SEA or Euro presence, (though we'd had a few new excellent guilds join us), we've done our best to paper over the cracks and had the help of SBI cancelling everyone out during our weakest timezones, but with the new transfers, we're exposed even more now.

Edited by Cirus, 10 February 2013 - 06:15 PM.


#479 MrZero

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostEvilSinzGW2, on 10 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

The bandwagon guilds crying over someone calling them farm material.  If someone felt that way, you probably sucked and didn't realize it.  Of course it was made up.  Yeah of course.  

Gee JQ, tell us again about your non existent queue times, paying guilds to transfer to your server,  claiming you only had a few guilds come over, you don't pvdoor, it's all skill, we don't 2v1 ....blah blah blah.  The propaganda machine rolls on.

Edit:  Oh wait, I nearly forgot the classic 'Oh, we had no idea who was coming to JQ as we just picked this server out of a hat. Luckily for us there are guilds hide behind.'

If and when JQ starts losing, all these fair weather guilds will scramble for those gems and get out of dodge.  Walking joke

Clearly the case of some dudes making stuff up.  Clearly



Look them up Vihar. You seem to have plenty of free time

Guildless douchebag coattail riding trolls making shit up is what it is. I don't see the TSym, VOTF and Agg players saying an damn thing. Just the asshats that want to try and make a rep for themselves on forums because they don't have one in game on their server.

#480 Ballads

Ballads

    Asuran Acolyte

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostMrZero, on 10 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Jed was drunk

You type that every time or just C/P it?




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