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T1 - Jade Sanctum’s Sorrow

tier 1jade quarry sanctum of rall sea of sorrow

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#661 Bakedg00ds

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostKelo, on 13 February 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Actually you are wrong, JQ is not overcovered, JQ is just fine. What is not fine is that SoR and BG have crap for overnight/morning and Kaineng has weak NA. SoS was just fine on all fronts not sure what happened there.

As I said, if you want a few powerhouse servers and stale matches, keep transferring between a few servers.  If you want challenges and diversity, it may make sense to expand competition a little more. FA and TC are incredibly close to turning the corner coverage-wise.

#662 Kreen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:20 PM

View PostTarkus, on 13 February 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Like in the 3-way in our SM tonight, goddamn it. Somehow could activate all other skills except for heal and portal, we could've let you guys fight it out since you guys had more numbers than us and waited for a quick mop-up if SoR didn't go and die on us. Goddamn it man, my i7 just couldn't deal with that sh*t.

yup, the heal skill is the one that locks out the most for me, I often choose the least channelled version if I think I will be running into a big zergfest.

#663 Stinky Garbage

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostKelo, on 13 February 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Actually you are wrong, JQ is not overcovered, JQ is just fine. What is not fine is that SoR and BG have crap for overnight/morning and Kaineng has weak NA. SoS was just fine on all fronts not sure what happened there.

Oh, you should definitely check the forums.  Basically Anet decided to close free transfers a few weeks ago and this started a mad migration of guilds to the T1 servers.  JQ in particular went recruitment-crazy.  SoS recruited its share, but mainly during hours that it had coverage gaps (VoTF for example).  And, it seems silly now, but they even exercised restraint by telling some NA guilds who wanted to transfer to SoS that if they went elsewhere, it might preserve the competitive balance because SoS was fine in NA.  Of course, it's no one's fault but Anet that competitive balance wasn't magically achieved, and we're left with one packed server.  That's why you'll find all these posts about the long queues on JQ and why JQ is winning T1 matches by Monday.  

As for why guilds are leaving SoS, it's a combination of things, as it always is.  A part of it is that the new 40g tax on transfer makes it nearly impossible to compete with JQ's numbers.  A part of it is a lack of continued enthusiasm from players on a server that has accomplished everything they had set out to accomplish.  And a part of it is popular commanders like Kurthos and Patone have moved on from the game and this has weakened the militia presence.

Hope this helps!

#664 Kreen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostBakedg00ds, on 13 February 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

As I said, if you want a few powerhouse servers and stale matches, keep transferring between a few servers.  If you want challenges and diversity, it may make sense to expand competition a little more. FA and TC are incredibly close to turning the corner coverage-wise.

Baked, out of interest, what timezone do you play, this can have a big bearing on server coverage. I have played on most timezones myself as I tend run weird hours at times but the coverage for each server can change dramatically from one 24 hour period to the next.

On the queue topic, there are only queues really on reset weekend for JQ. During the week you might get a 1-5 minute queue on one map with the others having no queues as that map is where our main force is. NA rpime maybe 5-10 minutes on one map.

I am not saying JQ needs more WvW folks, I am just trying to state some facts here given I am actually on the server, and play at various timeslots.

Edited by Kreen, 13 February 2013 - 08:29 PM.


#665 Bakedg00ds

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

I'm N/A but I play during Oceanic hours because my wife beats me with a broom if I'm on the computer while she's awake.  I'm on FA and it seems like our server needs Asian and Euro coverage.  We just played TC last week and my feeling was they needed Oceanic coverage.

#666 Vihar

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostStinky Garbage, on 13 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

SoS recruited its share, but mainly during hours that it had coverage gaps (VoTF for example).  And, it seems silly now, but they even exercised restraint by telling some NA guilds who wanted to transfer to SoS that if they went elsewhere, it might preserve the competitive balance because SoS was fine in NA.

  Actually, it was because they didn't want "bandwagon guilds making long queue's".

  ..and regarding queue's, reset night is tough on JQ.

   Other than that, it is no queue or 1-5 minutes on some maps....depending on the hour of the day.

Edited by Vihar, 13 February 2013 - 08:40 PM.


#667 Dark

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostBakedg00ds, on 13 February 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

I just want to expand on this a little more.  If there is some migration, don't forget to consider servers like TC and FA as well.  If those two servers can get a little more coverage we have the opportunity to create some great diversity within T1 and T2 that should keep things from getting stale.  

JQ - potentially overcovered and overcompetitive.
SoR - covered and competitive
SoS - covered and competitive
BG - covered and competitive
Kaineng - covered and competitive
TC - needs just a little more
FA - needs just a little more

If people really want to have fun instead of just win, it'd probably make a lot of sense for some of JQ to filter into TC and FA and any guilds that are thinking of leaving SoS to look at these two servers too.  Just a thought.

JQ uncovered? are you insane?

#668 Bakedg00ds

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

View PostDark, on 13 February 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

JQ uncovered? are you insane?

I said potentially "over"covered...

Regardless, I'm not insane but no one else can see my friends.

Edit to add - only overcovered in context of WvW's current population and the ability to have multiple servers with 24/7 coverage.  It may make more sense to have more servers with 18/7 than a few with 24/7.  Sorry, I didn't mean this to turn into an examination of JQ's coverage.  I was reflecting on the current ecosystem.

Edited by Bakedg00ds, 13 February 2013 - 08:59 PM.


#669 Kreen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostBakedg00ds, on 13 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

I'm N/A but I play during Oceanic hours because my wife beats me with a broom if I'm on the computer while she's awake.  I'm on FA and it seems like our server needs Asian and Euro coverage.  We just played TC last week and my feeling was they needed Oceanic coverage.

Thanks, I don't disagree with your message by the way and the sentiment. We all want competitive WvWvW.

All servers have gaps though, JQ just has less than others at present and other servers do not exploit them like some do. For example if SoS's oceanics were more prominent or SoR had a stronger presence JQ would not post NA tick it does sometimes. Anyway, as is always the way there is more than one solution to this and ultimately with the number of non GW2 distractions these things will balance out over time. Just look at the last 5 months in GW2. Hopefully the March update will bring folks back to many servers.

#670 Tyrantscreed

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:29 PM

So - what I'm understanding from all these posts is that - don't transfer to JQ they have a lot of band wagoners. Right. Call it what you want, but I welcome, for example, my [SF] brothas with open arms.

Anyhow, not gonna bother arguing with the "points" that you guys are throwing out. It's a bloody never ending cycle. Transfer to another server if you will, JQ will be still here standing tall and strong as always.

EDIT:

Btw SoR thanks for coming to T1 - you guys are really amazing !

Edited by Tyrantscreed, 13 February 2013 - 09:30 PM.


#671 phabby

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:42 PM

The ppl qqing over sos need to know and understand a few things.

In Australia and most of Oceanic region from December thru till Febuary is our major holiday period . Noice sos was really pumping thru that time and now eveyone has either gone back to work or school so no more playing 10-18hrs  a day. Sure we have lost some guilds and need some better coverage in NA time slot becasue gone are the days that we can jump into that time and play.

On reset SOS does well and the reason behnd this  is that we have goten well rested due to the fact that at oceanic time reset is Saturday morning and us oceanics can play hard fro alot longer.

My only concern will be what happens when USA have their summer break (, think that is 3 months long?) Like us oceanic players have been able to play longer due to our hoildays what will happen to the servers that are highly stacked in NA time zones then. I think either they will crash with queues to long or dominate  so much that  it will break so many servers.

So a few things to think about

#672 Vihar

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

I wouldn't spend a lot of effort worrying about things months away.

   So far in GW2, every 2 months has had major unforeseen changes. Even with the end of free transfers, I would expect that trend to continue...attrition, boredom, momentum, internal conflicts...all these things will still come to bear on every server from time to time.

   I doubt T1 and T2 will look familiar to us 6 months from now.

#673 Wotah

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:52 PM

View Postphabby, on 13 February 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

My only concern will be what happens when USA have their summer break (, think that is 3 months long?) Like us oceanic players have been able to play longer due to our hoildays what will happen to the servers that are highly stacked in NA time zones then. I think either they will crash with queues to long or dominate  so much that  it will break so many servers.

So a few things to think about

Yes, summer is about 3 months long.  I don't get a summer, I still work.  ;)

You may not know this, but a good population of JQ guilds are in their 30-40's and up.  Summer doesn't mean much to us.  However as most of your holidays (not sure if you mean vacation time - as we call it) are from Dec-Feb ours is from Nov-Jan for the big ones.

#674 Paramex

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:52 PM

View Postphabby, on 13 February 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

The ppl qqing over sos need to know and understand a few things.

In Australia and most of Oceanic region from December thru till Febuary is our major holiday period . Noice sos was really pumping thru that time and now eveyone has either gone back to work or school so no more playing 10-18hrs  a day. Sure we have lost some guilds and need some better coverage in NA time slot becasue gone are the days that we can jump into that time and play.

On reset SOS does well and the reason behnd this  is that we have goten well rested due to the fact that at oceanic time reset is Saturday morning and us oceanics can play hard fro alot longer.

And thats the problem with SoS actually, you saying as if SoS survival and glory were only because of Oceanics peoples. That is very disrespectful to the other NA/Asian/EU crew of SoS. I hate to say this but without the WHOLE community SoS will collapse long time ago (nvm T1, we will never make it to T2)

I dont know whats wrong with some oceanics peoples in SoS but they seems to full of themselves, just looks at MERCS "ultimatum" today in SoS forum. Asking everyone to fight, give their best and dont give up but if SoS community didnt respond to their request, they will leave SoS. (doh...)

In short, they were asking for help back when SoS was in lower tiers and now when SoS is deteriorating they want to leave their home and leave their guest behind, LOL  that.. is very hilarious to me

#675 Bina

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

JQ needs more late night coverage, come help us from getting zerged by the new Bandwagon BG.

#676 CalmLittleBuddy

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:00 AM

If you want to have fun, come to my server. If you want to ruin it foreveryone, go to someone else's server!

If you want a challenge, come to my server. If all you care about is winning, go to someone else's server!

If you want WvW to be competative, come to my server. If you want GW2 to go out of business next week, go to someone else's server.

I get it now. JQ is evil, go to that guys' server! Makes sense, cuz he's on that server, and he wants players to go there. It's a good hypothesis, but needs some testing. Guys, can half of JQ guilds go to this guy's server and see if this holds up please?

#677 Global_GW2

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

View PostCalmLittleBuddy, on 14 February 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

I get it now. JQ is evil

Took you long enough. :D :D :D

#678 Vadar

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:08 AM

All the wvw people on SoS should just move to BG to teach JQ a lesson. I'm willing to pay $20 for that.

I really wish people would stop saying JQ just recruited well. It's got nothing to do with recruitment. A couple very well known guilds decided to transfer to JQ to even out things against SoS. A couple of others decided to follow and then more and more came. Eventually it was obvious that JQ would be more than dominant, so a lot of people left their guilds and joined others on JQ. Even people from my guild did this. You can call it "good recruitment" all you want. We all know what really happened.

Edited by Vadar, 14 February 2013 - 12:13 AM.


#679 DeagarFA

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostVadar, on 14 February 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

All the wvw people on SoS should just move to BG to teach JQ a lesson. I'm willing to pay $20 for that.
Yeah, because JQ doesn't know anything about being the second best server.
http://mos.millenium...iew/29/#history

#680 MrZero

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:19 AM

View PostDeagarFA, on 14 February 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

Yeah, because JQ doesn't know anything about being the second best server.
http://mos.millenium...iew/29/#history

http://mos.millenium...w/37/21#history

Isn't that interesting.
Ignore which tier they were in and going back 20 weeks SoS has a record of 14 1st, 2 2nd, 3 3rd. None of those 2nd or 3rd place finishes were back to back until these last 2 weeks. From a statistical point of view that is a pretty good record. From a morale point of view, two losses in a row could be taken pretty harshly by the masses.

#681 Vadar

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:21 AM

View PostDeagarFA, on 14 February 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:

Yeah, because JQ doesn't know anything about being the second best server.
http://mos.millenium...iew/29/#history

That's not what I'm getting at. I applaud the people that have stayed on JQ, constantly fighting for first and managing to stay in T1 for so long. Since T2 hasn't been close for a very long time, it's been a really tough battle. This is legendary.

Howver, my comment was aimed at the people that are making comments (we all know what they are) and most likely only rolled on JQ before the free transfers so they could be on the winning server.

#682 crowea

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

View PostVihar, on 13 February 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

I wouldn't spend a lot of effort worrying about things months away.

   So far in GW2, every 2 months has had major unforeseen changes. Even with the end of free transfers, I would expect that trend to continue...attrition, boredom, momentum, internal conflicts...all these things will still come to bear on every server from time to time.

   I doubt T1 and T2 will look familiar to us 6 months from now.
I completely agree and to be honest there is not much more needs to be said. I remember when there was all this talk of the top 4 servers being unbeatable and IoJ the gatekeeper - look at SBI, HoD, ET and IoJ now. But are the players who stayed on these four servers still having fun playing? Probably.

(To their credit JQ have survived up in T1 and should enjoy their time winning the tier after being bridesmaid for so long.)

There will be players moving servers but the days of whole guilds moving are pretty much done under the paid transfer system - while a few guilds may have its players pay up to move to what they see as a winning server/lower pop server (or a community they see suits them better) they will leave players behind, even more with a PvX guild.

Anyway I have fun hanging with people I like and taking a keep or turning a BL our colour. As long as I can do that I'm happy.

#683 Vadar

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:31 AM

View PostMrZero, on 14 February 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

http://mos.millenium...w/37/21#history

Isn't that interesting.
Ignore which tier they were in and going back 20 weeks SoS has a record of 14 1st, 2 2nd, 3 3rd. None of those 2nd or 3rd place finishes were back to back until these last 2 weeks. From a statistical point of view that is a pretty good record. From a morale point of view, two losses in a row could be taken pretty harshly by the masses.

The two losses isn't the problem. It's the motivation to fight. We know there's no chance in hell of beating JQ, the only other thing to fight for is to stay in T1. Since T2 is so close now, it's going to take a while to fall down. JQ's motivation to keep fighting SoS during their reign was to stay in T1, as T2 was a blowout. There's just no reason to put in the long hours like we used to, there's no recognition or any goal to fight for. Hopefully with a decent reward system coming in the next update will draw out more people.

#684 Impmon

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:41 AM

View PostVadar, on 14 February 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

All the wvw people on SoS should just move to BG to teach JQ a lesson. I'm willing to pay $20 for that.

I really wish people would stop saying JQ just recruited well. It's got nothing to do with recruitment. A couple very well known guilds decided to transfer to JQ to even out things against SoS. A couple of others decided to follow and then more and more came. Eventually it was obvious that JQ would be more than dominant, so a lot of people left their guilds and joined others on JQ. Even people from my guild did this. You can call it "good recruitment" all you want. We all know what really happened.

Its not ok for people to xfer to JQ & win but its ok for people to xfer to BG & possibly win in the future.  

Brilliant logic there Einstein.

#685 Vadar

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:45 AM

View PostImpmon, on 14 February 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Its not ok for people to xfer to JQ & win but its ok for people to xfer to BG & possibly win in the future.  

Brilliant logic there Einstein.

That was a joke. Where did I say it was ok?

#686 Herr_Gebrechen

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:45 AM

Oh, you do wvw only when you are winning? That's really sad and maybe that's the main problem you have. Most on JQ play because they like wvw and the teamwork with the old and new guilds and players. Many of us could live with being 2nd for a while as long the fights are as great as in the last weeks.

Sure, there a serious balancing issues which should be solved by Anet, but either you live with them or you stop playing.

Last but not least, as one of your server already mentioned, you have beaten us once, you had your chance last week. It gets hard after some guild left SoS, but if you don't try to fight, you will lose just more of your community.

#687 Vadar

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostHerr_Gebrechen, on 14 February 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

Oh, you do wvw only when you are winning? That's really sad and maybe that's the main problem you have. Most on JQ play because they like wvw and the teamwork with the old and new guilds and players. Many of us could live with being 2nd for a while as long the fights are as great as in the last weeks.

Sure, there a serious balancing issues which should be solved by Anet, but either you live with them or you stop playing.

Last but not least, as one of your server already mentioned, you have beaten us once, you had your chance last week. It gets hard after some guild left SoS, but if you don't try to fight, you will lose just more of your community.

I swear some people need to learn better comprehension skills or does noone actually read what others write?

Where did I say we only wvw when we're winning. I said we don't put in the long hours we used to and that lack of motivation is becoming a problem. JQ doesn't need to put in the long hours to be competitive, they have guilds to cycle with (as stated previosuly by someone from JQ in this thread) and by MrZero himself.

I personally wvw every night, but I'm not going to overdo it for no reason. SoS needs to do this to maintain a lead due to our coverage gaps. I doubt you would either.

Edited by Vadar, 14 February 2013 - 12:54 AM.


#688 crowea

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:56 AM

View PostVadar, on 14 February 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

The two losses isn't the problem. It's the motivation to fight. We know there's no chance in hell of beating JQ, the only other thing to fight for is to stay in T1. Since T2 is so close now, it's going to take a while to fall down. JQ's motivation to keep fighting SoS during their reign was to stay in T1, as T2 was a blowout. There's just no reason to put in the long hours like we used to, there's no recognition or any goal to fight for. Hopefully with a decent reward system coming in the next update will draw out more people.
yeah I think this is right. I think JQ, SoR, and the T2 servers probably still have their own goals (getting in T1, excitement of being ranked 1 etc) but this will wear off which will level the playing field.

Last I looked SoS has SMC and higher ppt than JQQ so any talk of SoS demise is a little premature

And a small thing- daylight savings finishes in a few weeks so oceanic time overlaps SEA/Europe  by an extra hour or two ;)

Edited by crowea, 14 February 2013 - 12:56 AM.


#689 IDarko

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:02 AM

I'm not playing in NA but i would love to see all your t1 servers fully stacked. That would probably be the best solution for all this. Then it's truly about skill and tactics instead of timezones issues and other excuses. But with paid transfers in and most hardcore EU guilds favouring GvG action, i doubt that this will happen.

But who knows. Maybe some day.

I can totally understand that the t2 servers want to keep their community and just try to enter t1 themselves tho.

Edited by IDarko, 14 February 2013 - 01:03 AM.


#690 Herr_Gebrechen

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:25 AM

Quote

It's the motivation to fight. We know there's no chance in hell of beating JQ, the only other thing to fight for is to stay in T1.


That's a problem with your motivation. Maybe my skills in your language are not that great, but you had the chance to beat us and you had the chance to stay in T1.
Your posts are not helping your server. You lost some great guilds, but your server has the potential for T1 and other players on T2 or T3 servers know that. The problem with this is they won't join SoS when their server struggles, because you write you are not motivated. BG and SoR don't say that things.
Just keep up fighting, bite back, show your skills and maybe after two weeks of suffering some great guilds from a T3 server transfer to you and you come back to T1 with a much stronger force
That's what I tried to say. Stay optimistic.


Good luck.




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